Upgrade Electronics

[Flying Cloud]

I have a 2006 Beneteau 393 with the Raymarine e80 chartplotter, along with autopilot, depth, wind, and speed indicators.   Most of the time everything works fine and I only cruise in the Pacific Northwest.  I have an independent AIS system but do not have Radar.  My need for radar has been minimal but there are times when fog has caught us off guard and we have wished for radar.  The raymarine system uses the old seatalk network so it lacks compatibility with newer equipment.  

At this point my prime driver is radar.  I am trying to determine if I should purchase a stand alone radar system or attempt to upgrade all the electronics.  I would love to get some feedback from those who have experienced similar thoughts and what action you have taken.  Any information on budget would be helpful too.

Thanks

--

Fair Winds and Following Seas

Flying Cloud

2006 Beneteau 393

The Parker's

Skipper: Neil 

First Mate: Karen

[William Eurbin]

I have started the same on my 343. A seatalk 1 to seatalk ng converter will convert the signal from your instruments to work with modern MFD's i.e. nema 2000.  So add a MFD to replace your chatplotter, add the seatalk conversion, add radar. If your AIS has nema 2000 you can also add that to the network by connecting it to the nema backbone the converter starts. 

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[harrison midkiff]

Flying Cloud:

I understand your dilemma.  I bought my 473 about 3 years ago.  It had original Raymarine on it from 2002 and half of it did not work.  I decided on a full upgrade including Radar.  I went B&G and used their Halo20+ radar.  As far as radar goes this is the first I have ever used...  I absolutely love it!  It has a feature on it called "Target Track".  Basically, you can identify an object and with every sweep it will show you a bread crumb of where it has been and its estimated direction of travel.  I think this would be very helpful in fog!!!!  I attached my current system just so you can see how it is configured.

To your question - "I am trying to determine if I should purchase a stand alone radar system or attempt to upgrade all the electronics."  This is a tough one especially if your Raymarine is working.  I am not super familiar with Raymarine...  My guess is you could find an old radar which will work with your system on eBay.  It would be dated and would lack the modern features you might be after.  If you have the pocket book for it I would look forward at an upgrade.  Especially if you plan on keeping your boat.  Most likely with the radar you will also need a new chartplotter.  I did my upgrade myself.  It was just under $25K and took me 3 months working on it on the weekends.

Good luck🙂

Harrison - Tarpons Springs, Florida  

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Harrison Midkiff

harrison...@gmail.com 

727.238.0498

[Ralph Wasserbaech]

I concur with everything William said. My E80 MFD display on my 2008 B40 died this summer leaving me with functioning Raymarine instruments and radar but no chartplotter. After lots of research and trying to not spend $25k on an entire new system I chose to stay with Raymarine and salvage what I could. I decided to upgrade to a new Axiom +9 MFD. Using the converter William mentioned I am able to display the readings from all my instruments. The radar however is no longer compatible with newer MFD's and will have to be replaced. There are lots of these old models available for resale that will work with your E80. That said I am so happy my E80 died. The new Axiom is so much better. It is super crisp and easy to read and also reconfigure to show exactly what I want to see on which screens. If you go with the Axiom pay for the + model which has a 25% brighter display. The older non + plus is still available. I also bought a new Raymarine VHF radio which is AIS capable and displays targets on the MFD. Works really well. I will probably purchase a new Raymarine Quantum radar this spring. It only needs a power feed and talks to the MFD via wifi. Wifi on the MFD worked well with a hotspot I created on my phone and was able to update the software seamlessly on the Axiom. Quantum radar is around $1500 and the Quantum 2 is around $2200. This has the tracking feature mentioned in another post. The Axiom +9 was around $1500 with charts. Mind you I searched the internet for the best deals. Budget some extra cash for all the new cables you will need. The Seatalk converter alone is $120. Figuring out all the various cabling is a bit confusing but manageable. I'm available for questions as necessary.

[Hal Mueller]

Neil, I have a used Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG converter I keep meaning to put on eBay. If you’re local to Seattle and want to pick it up at my house above Shilshole or my slip at Elliott Bay Marina, it’s yours.

I went through a similar upgrade on my 2007 323. If I had it to do over again, I think I’d do it all at once. Maybe. My plan early was was just “sail the boat”, don’t launch any major projects, but when the autopilot failed I had to start the incremental upgrades.

Boat was all Raymarine (then and now) except for radio and now the AIS. When I bought the boat in 2017, it had ST60 series instruments, including an ST60 Bidata, an Airmar analog depth transducer, and an RC435i chart plotter (which took CF cards). Right away I added a Vesper XB-8000 headless AIS, and used a smartphone or tablet to connect (it was not on network initially).

The autopilot failed about 6 months after I bought the boat, and that brought me into the world of blended SeaTalk versions. Replaced with the NMEA-2000 Raymarine autopilot equipment, and added a SeaTalk 1-to-NG converter. Also replaced the chart plotter with Axiom. Left everything else alone. 

At the haulout in early 2020, I had the yard swap out the analog Airmar DS-800 transducer for a digital one (was drop-in replacement but I wanted them to vouch for the through-hull). And that was when I migrated everything to NMEA-2000/STNG, pulling out the last of the SeaTalk-vintage stuff.

Current setup:

• Vesper XB-8000 AIS transponder, on the NMEA-2000 bus now. Its NMEA-0183 output connects to the Icom VHF’s NMEA-0183 input to drive DSC and distress.
• Axiom 9. Raymarine autopilot. ST-70 instrument on the left, and the ST-70 equivalent for the autopilot on the right. ST60 Bidata removed, replaced by external USB drive for the Axiom. RAY-22111 DST-800. Fusion FM/AM/CD/Bluetooth receiver, separate speaker zones to salon and cockpit, controlled from helm station.
• NMEA-2000 bus runs from bow, to nav panel, aft along starboard side, stern, port to autopilot actuator and brain, back to center of stern and then up the helm panel, terminating at the helm.
• No radar, no wind sensor. Seeing the Quantum/Quantum 2 pricing in earlier message has me thinking, though.

Surprises/learnings:

• I love the Axiom display.
• ST-60 to ST-70 replacements were drop-in, same size hole. Axiom needed a bigger hole. ST-60 Bidata hole was too big for the USB drive, and I had a “goof plug” made by https://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ (they also did my new nav console/breaker panel).
• The analog Airmar transducer needs the ST60 Bidata, and a direct wired connection between them, to function. The RAY-22111 DST-800 digital one does not, it just draws power from the SeaTalk NG bus. So you could have a bus with just the Axiom MFD and the DST-800 on it, and you’d have depth, SOG, STW, temperature, and location.
• If you want to keep your analog DST, you’ll have to keep an ST60 (Tridata?). I don’t know whether your wind sensor/display has the same requirement.

Hal Mueller

halmu...@gmail.com

S/V Yard Work

Seattle, Washington

[Neil Parker]

Hal, that's a great offer, and I will happily accept.  Any chance of connecting Monday?

Fair winds and following seas

Neil Parker

Skipper

/) /) /)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Sent from my handheld, please excuse typos 

On Nov 5, 2023, at 6:13 PM, Hal Mueller <halmu...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[b sch]

Hi all

i have also upgraded to a Axium but still can configure out how to integrate my old wind and depth ST60 data into it? i have a converter in the network that seems to be set up but still do not Get the data to display?

[jkr...@aol.com]

The wind and depth transducers have to be connected to an ITC-5 directly and this is connected to your backbone. The displays then appear.

Been there, done it.

Ron

Esprit B331

In a message dated 11/6/2023 10:40:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, bruc...@comcast.net writes:

 

Hi all

i have also upgraded to a Axium but still can configure out how to integrate my old wind and depth ST60 data into it? i have a converter in the network that seems to be set up but still do not Get the data to display?

 

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[Bruce Home]

Can you diagram?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 6, 2023, at 11:06 AM, jkrk22 via Beneteau Owners <benetea...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



The wind and depth transducers have to be connected to an ITC-5 directly and this is connected to your backbone. The displays then appear.

Been there, done it.

Ron

Esprit B331

In a message dated 11/6/2023 10:40:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, bruc...@comcast.net writes:

 

Hi all

i have also upgraded to a Axium but still can configure out how to integrate my old wind and depth ST60 data into it? i have a converter in the network that seems to be set up but still do not Get the data to dis

<IMG_6155.JPG>

play?

 

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.

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<IMG_6155.JPG>

[Ralph Wasserbaech]

I was somehow able to connect my wind/depth/speed ST60 vintage instruments to my Axiom MFD using the E22158 converter Bruce is showing in his picture. The difference in my setup may be that I have my instruments daisy chained into a network with my Auto Pilot control head. I am taking my Seatalk signal from the S2 Autopilot computer to the converter. 

Ralph Wasserbaech

2008 B40

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[jkr...@aol.com]

Attached is a very rough sketch.

Raymarine shows it in their lit.

Ron

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beneteau-owners/EC788FB5-D196-46D4-8F07-688183BE37D4%40comcast.net

.

[Ralph Wasserbaech]

There is an installation manual for the converter available on the Raymarine website. It shows diagrams of various installation scenarios. I think the ITC-5 will bypass your current instrument heads. I am still using my ST60 displays in addition to now seeing the info on my Axiom.

https://www.raymarine.de/en-us/download/seatalk1-to-seatalkng-manuals

This is a diagram of my setup although all my instruments are daisy chained through the autopilot control head.

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