Outhaul line?

[bjgr...@verizon.net]

I can't flatten the main and when I put on the pressure I'm not seeing slippage but the main is still rounding out. I'm thinking I need to replace the line. My last experience buying line was taking advice from a WM salesman. Not a good choice. Any recommendations. Bruce (Breezy)

[Ivars]

What control line (s) are you talking about ?

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[Cap Munday]

Is this an in mast furler? If so, and you can't flatten the main, the sail is blown out. Have a sail maker or rigger take a look at it. 

If it is a standard main, have you tried cranking down the Cunningham? 

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

[Dean Forbis]

or try adding more purchase to the system.

Dean 

[JoeT]

1st step - Is your outhaul car all the way to the stop at the end of the boom (and clew with it)?
If so, maybe blown main.
If not, why not? Lube all the pulleys, the track and the outhaul car bearings with wd-40/Sailkote/etc, and check for obstructions or line kinks etc..

Joe T. (Regina del Seni)

[Noble, Milner E.]

Please don’t use WD-40 for this application.  McLube Sailkote.

--Milner

--

[bjgr...@verizon.net]

Roller furling main Outhaul.

Sep 11, 2012 10:36:38 PM, benetea...@googlegroups.com wrote:

===========================================

What control line (s) are you talking about ?



-----Original Message-----

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bjgr...@verizon.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 9:41 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Outhaul line?

[bjgr...@verizon.net]

No way? 2008 with vertical buttons. I followed the posts about the life of a sail and would be suprised she is worn out.

Sep 11, 2012 10:40:13 PM, benetea...@googlegroups.com wrote:

===========================================

Is this an in mast furler? If so, and you can't flatten the main, the sail is blown out. Have a sail maker or rigger take a look at it. 




If it is a standard main, have you tried cranking down the Cunningham? 





Cap Munday


S/V Zydeco


Beneteau 473






-----Original Message-----

From: Ivars

To: beneteau-owners

Sent: Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:36 pm

Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Outhaul line?

[bjgr...@verizon.net]

I'm looking for the spec on line for the outhaul. I use mclube, the car is no where near the end of the boom, I don't believe the main is blown and it will flatten but loses it shape without slippage on the block. Anybody got some recommendations on line spec?

Sep 12, 2012 09:43:00 AM, benetea...@googlegroups.com wrote:

===========================================

Please don’t use WD-40 for this application.  McLube Sailkote.


--Milner


 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of JoeT

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:39 AM

To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?


 




1st step - Is your outhaul car all the way to the stop at the end of the boom (and clew with it)?

If so, maybe blown main.

If not, why not? Lube all the pulleys, the track and the outhaul car bearings with wd-40/Sailkote/etc, and check for obstructions or line kinks etc..



Joe T. (Regina del Seni)





On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 8:41:08 PM UTC-5,
Bjgr...@hughes.net wrote:

[ourdr...@gmail.com]

I believe your problem is the bearings in the out haul boom car.
Slacken the outhaul and verify the car travels freely the length of
the boom.
If this confirms the boom car is the problem then:
Go to US Spars PFD Catalog http://www.usspars.com/CATALOG2009.pdf
Lots of other good information




Bob
S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_
���`�.�. , . .���`�.. ><((((�>`�.��.�
��`�.�.���`�...�><((((�>

-----Original Message-----
From: bjgr...@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Cc: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

I'm looking for the spec on line for the outhaul. I use mclube, the
car is no where near the end of the boom, I don't believe the main is
blown and it will flatten but loses it shape without slippage on the
block. Anybody got some recommendations on line spec?

Sep 12, 2012 09:43:00 AM, benetea...@googlegroups.com wrote:

===========================================

Please don�t use WD-40 for this application. McLube Sailkote.

[Noble, Milner E.]

Hate to ask, but in addition to freeing the main sheet and topping lift, did you free the vang? With these lines free, the outhaul should not be a problem.
--Milner

Sent from my iPhone

[Bill Jarvis]

You need to be sure that the car is sliding out along the boom freely, under
load. Any problem there will result in the sail not flattening properly.

Bill

[sean]

Asuming all else is working go to WM with your existing out haul or a piece of same and get a replacement length of stasetX. Worked well for me and fits your spinlock cam much much better

The stock line stretches and doesn't cam well.

My $.02

Sean

[Cap Munday]

It's not gonna be the outhaul line. Sounds like you have a bound up sail since it is not unfurling all the way up the mast. We have had this happen with our 11 year old main (just a little out of shape, but the sail maker says it's still looking good) when we furl while off the wind. If the clew is not all the way out to the black tape at the  boom end, you are not fully unfurling the sail.

So, either have someone who knows what they are doing assess the situation and teach you how to fix it first hand, or go up the mast with a spatula (I use two, one plastic with a long flexible blade and one metal that can do heavy duty tweaking). Tie 'em on to your bosun chair and sort things out with the person doing the hauling. 

Gradually have them pull out the sail and keep an eye on the leach as you move up the spar. When you get to a place where it does not fully deploy, have your helper re-furl the sail and insert the appropriate spat to un-snarl the leach. Often this takes several attempts. If the leach doubles over it can't get through the slot.

Some folks use a fiberglass batten for this task. All we have are spats. 

After you sort out the sail, remember to only furl when heading into the wind and keep careful tension on the outhaul as you do so. For years we furled the main regardless of our relative wind heading, but now that it's a bit older we have to take care to be heading directly into the breeze to be assured of a tight accurate job. Our latest problem with snarled leach happened when I over furled the main in anticipation of a hurricane. It was a stupid thing to do in the first place because so little sail is exposed we would have been wrecked regardless of the exposed clew if it had turned out to be a Force 4. It was pulled in past the Sunbrella shield, and that was the problem. Sail works fine now and I didn't have to go to the mast head.

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

[rvluc...@yahoo.com]

Keep in mind that early booms had a car design which was upgraded with new track and car. May want to discuss with the mast/boom mfg. We went through this exercise on our boom for a '95 production year 321. The fix solved all the issues we were having. Cost was reasonable. If you desire specifics, I can look up the transaction.

Bob L
Latitudes/Chicago/oc321

-----Original Message-----
From: <ourdr...@gmail.com>
Sender: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 21:45:12
To: <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

I believe your problem is the bearings in the out haul boom car.
Slacken the outhaul and verify the car travels freely the length of
the boom.
If this confirms the boom car is the problem then:
Go to US Spars PFD Catalog http://www.usspars.com/CATALOG2009.pdf
Lots of other good information




Bob
S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·
´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

-----Original Message-----
From: bjgr...@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:03 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Cc: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

I'm looking for the spec on line for the outhaul. I use mclube, the
car is no where near the end of the boom, I don't believe the main is
blown and it will flatten but loses it shape without slippage on the
block. Anybody got some recommendations on line spec?

Sep 12, 2012 09:43:00 AM, benetea...@googlegroups.com wrote:

===========================================

Please don’t use WD-40 for this application. McLube Sailkote.

[Ivars]

With respect to the outhaul line... If you are looking to replace it, get
the lowest stretch line your budget will allow...

I don't remember which boat you have, but the example will give you an idea
why using low stretch line has a high priority... If your "E" is 15' and the
boom is 3' above the deck and the distance back to the stopper is 12' the
total working length is 30' or 360 inches...

A line with 3% stretch ( common for lines such as Stayset ) could stretch up
to 10.8 inches at the working load

A line with 1% stretch ( premium low stretch ) could stretch up to 3.6
inches...

The load on the outhaul changes with the wind strength as during puffs
allowing the mainsail clew to move inwards changing the trim with every
puff, which line would you rather have... The math says it all unless you
prefer chasing trim constantly... The same applies to all lines...

"...the car is no where near the end of the boom " has nothing to do with
the sail... Booms are cut to a random length for a particular boat for
esthetics as much as anything... Find the "E" and measure that distance back
from the mast... Mark that distance with a piece of tape... That will be the
reference for the maximum designed trim distance for the sail (it has
nothing to with racing, but keeping sail trim within design limits will keep
from distorting sail shape by overtrimming )... If you are trimming beyond
that distance the sail has stretched and become distorted...also the
reference on the sail is the clew ring bearing point of the outhaul...car
position is irrevelant and not measured

New sail in 2008 has nothing to do with sail shape... A new sail of woven
sail cloth can be overloaded or overstressed in a single robust outing,
causing the shape to go bad... Do that a few more times the sail becomes
totally blown out ... Could be as little as a few weeks after bending on the
new sail... Sail cloth can look good for a long time, yet the shape is gone.
since 2008 the sail has had a lot of use, I would expect it to be blown out,
it doesn't mean it's not serviceable... It may not work as good when
furling...it could be reworked, but experience tells that there is little
value is reworking a 4-5 year old sail... Best value is to use it as is and
use the repair expense to offset the cost of a new sail

Once sail cloth has broken down it becomes stretchy and easily distorts with
wind changes (almost like the example of a low stretch line vs a higher
stretch line )

Examine what you have and how it is responding... You will be able to judge
for yourself

-----Original Message-----
From: benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bjgr...@verizon.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 9:04 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Cc: benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Michael]

What are vangs for?

 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JoeT
Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2012 11:39 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

 

--

[Bill Jarvis]

Vangs allow one to control the height of the boom. They therefore give control over mainsail twist.

 

As one goes off the wind the main sheet is no longer pulling down and the outer end of the boom tends to rise up allowing the upper part of the sail to twist off.

 

Bill

[Jeffrey Schwartz]

Vangs pull down the boom / flatten the main.

 

Jeffrey Schwartz

 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael

Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 3:24 AM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

[JoeT]

I totally forgot. A couple of years ago my, car somehow lost most of it's delrin bearings. The main would go out only so far until the load was too much and the car bound up on the track. I could slide the car out by hand with eased load. The replacement balls are cheap enough, but reloading the car is a major pain unless you have a short piece of extra track available.

Joe T. (Regina del Seni)

[rob]

To replace ball bearings without the often missing 'piece of spare track', smother the race with shaving cream to hold the bearings. It provides just enough adhesion to hold things together while assembling the parts, and rinses out easily. Also leaves your track smelling minty fresh.

Tweezers are also useful. When acquiring the new bearings, buy extra (I usually buy enough for 3 full replacements at a shot, assuming I will get 2 sets replaced out of that quantity with some left over after a few wander off during the replacement process).

Rob

Avant

First 435

[davidcf...@rogers.com]

My experience was that bearings cost 60+% of the cost of a new car, loader track and balls.

Double check your track, they changed the track and car sometime around 98 or 99.

The new car will fit ( kind a ) however will not slide under load. The difference is oh so slight. You need a caliper to know the difference.

I have a length of old track, the new car gave me trouble for a couple years until I figured out the problem. New car and old style track.

Talk to Julian Crisp. US Sparman. He was the manager at US spars.

He will explain it all and get you headed the right way.

Fletch

Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

---

From: rob <rob.ro...@gmail.com>

Sender: benetea...@googlegroups.com

Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 07:59:01 -0700 (PDT)

To: <benetea...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: benetea...@googlegroups.com

Cc: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

--

[bjgr...@verizon.net]

With all the input I got on my question about what line to buy for the Outhaul I did get one answer. Thanks. I also realize I don't know everything and on Friday I checked all the possibles. The bearings are all there and runs smooth all the way to the end of the boom. The sail is stiff, the battons are set properly, the main hauled out completely and I checked the main halyard and the sail slides easily in it's track. It does flatten and rolls up easily. I' m still thinking Outhaul but the conditions I was sailing in we're rough and the pressure on the main was high. I wouldn't use the power winch to prevent over torque. I'm going to try the main a few more times before committing to new line. Thanks Bruce (Breezy)

Sep 14, 2012 02:15:25 PM, benetea...@googlegroups.com wrote:

===========================================

My experience was that bearings cost 60+% of the cost of a new car, loader track and balls.

Double check your track, they changed the track and car sometime around 98 or 99.

The new car will fit ( kind a ) however will not slide under load. The difference is oh so slight. You need a caliper to know the difference.

I have a length of old track, the new car gave me trouble for a couple years until I figured out the problem. New car and old style track.

Talk to Julian Crisp. US Sparman. He was the manager at US spars.

He will explain it all and get you headed the right way.

FletchSent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless NetworkFrom: rob
Sender: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 07:59:01 -0700 (PDT)To: ReplyTo: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

To replace ball bearings without the often missing 'piece of spare track', smother the race with shaving cream to hold the bearings. It provides just enough adhesion to hold things together while assembling the parts, and rinses out easily. Also leaves your track smelling minty fresh.
Tweezers are also useful. When acquiring the new bearings, buy extra (I usually buy enough for 3 full replacements at a shot, assuming I will get 2 sets replaced out of that quantity with some left over after a few wander off during the replacement process).

RobAvantFirst 435

[Cap Munday]

We find that reefing the main in a breeze (<20 Kts relative) is essential. And when it really starts to blow you have to crank it it a bunch and sail off the Genoa that is also tightly reefed. Off the wind you are better off, in >30 knots true, with jib alone. We have been in ~55 knots with a bit of  jib and did just fine. No main! That causes huge weather helm. 

I would like to hear about heavy weather with a Solent rig from anyone who has been there. Note that our experience is in estuaries, not in the ocean. Only 6 - 10' seas with no swells. Chesapeake Bay and Albamarle Sound and Nuese River. 

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

[Neal Lindeman]

Sounds like you have lubed everything, but also Sailkote the furling line.

Neal Lindeman

> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:59:41 -0500
> From: bjgr...@verizon.net
> To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
> CC: benetea...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Outhaul line?

[Joe 343]

My rope clutches slip on the lines supplied with the boat (2006 343).  I usually leave the outhaul and furler line on the self tailing  winches.  Even then, in high winds I may have to tweak a bit to flatten.  Would prefer to have cleats for one or the other.  I have been known to tie a knot in one of the lines to jam at the clutch.  Genoa furler clutch is open except in winter.  I use a camcleat for the furler line mounted on the coaming to allow adjusting from the wheel.  I also use cams for the main traveler adjusters so I can adjust from the wheel.

Joe

[Bill Jarvis]

Joe,

 

Those are the typical problems associated with line stretch. Replace with low stretch like Vectran.

 

Bill

 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe 343

Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 5:43 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Dean Forbis]

Get one size larger so the clutches will not slip.  

[Ivars]

read the fine print about the clutches...

 

clutches are assembled / designed a for specific range of line sizes,  using undersized or oversized line can cause issues...  

 

clutch manufacturers have  " adjustment kits"  which will  help suit a particular line size better

 

Beneteau often uses clutches that are at their max working load limits... if there are issues with a clutch review capacity and consider possible upgrade to better suit the loads being generated on the boat...

---

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean Forbis
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 6:14 PM

To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Outhaul line?

[Mark J Wilme]

Try threading a piece of small stuff inside the outer sheath (assuming double braid line) to fatten the line for the length that would be in the clutch.

[Cap Munday]

I crew on a J 24 on Wednesday for races out of West River. My job is trimming jib and spinnaker (sheet and guy). When winds pipe up the sail stretches (spin and jib) so you have to trim and when winds slack you ease sheets. I totally concentrate on those jobs and keep my eye inside the boat. If you can afford Vectran or Kevlar sails the stretch is less and trimming during puffs and lulls is less. The sheet is a small part of the equation given all that sail area. We have low stretch sheets. The shape change is in the sail. 

When we are cruising and headed for a distant waypoint aboard Zydeco I don't futz with the details unless winds are strong and our safety depends on keeping good sail trim. In winds under 15 knots over the deck I don't mess with things too much, but when we see 20 knots or so, I am trimming or reefing to maximize sail effort that is pulling this huge mass through the seas. 

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

-----Original Message-----
From: Ivars <dbg...@mindspring.com>
To: beneteau-owners <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Sep 21, 2012 6:27 pm
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} Outhaul line?