Ocean sailing in a 473

[Jack Ives]

I am in the process of shopping for a larger sailboat and I'm considering the Beneteau 473. From what I can see so far, the 473 meets most of my needs in terms of both the boat itself and the worldwide support for the product. Where I am getting stuck is lack of experience (and feedback) on this particular boat from those that have taken one offshore. My goal is to find a boat that will both comfortably and efficiently sail both along the coast and offshore. I should also point out that the boat is going to be single handed in most cases.

 

I'd welcome feedback from anyone that has experience taking a B473 offshore and what their impressions are. How was the boat rigged (keel shape & size / sail & mast configurations, etc.)and how did it handle? What would you like to see done differently? Has anyone got any performance insights (boat is sluggish / sail's like a banshee) in various conditions?

 

Thanks in advance,

Jack Ives

[Bill Jarvis]

Jack,

 

Earlier this year I brought a friend's 473 down from NJ to NC. Winds were mostly in the 25 to 35 knot range. We came offshore from northern NJ to Norfolk and then down the ICW.

 

The boat handled the wind easily. Seas were moderately large but the boat was dry. A few waves came over the bow but back in the cockpit it was OK.

 

This boat has an in mast furling main. It loved to sail in winds over 20 knots. It was initially tender but heeled to about 15 degrees and then became very stiff and tracked well. I don't know how well it sails in light air. We did not have any!

 

The spaces below are fairly wide open. That could be a concern for extended offshore work.

 

Bill

[John White]

A B473 did quite well in the recent ARC rally from Las Palmas to St Lucia; it was 2nd in class and came 20th overall out of a fleet of around 250.  This demonstrates that the B473 is capable of fast, blue water passages.


  John.

[chefmango]

Bill,
I am most interested in knowing if you had any issues tween Norfolk and
NC on the ICW considering height of mast and draft on the 473, I have
to decide whether to go outside at Hatteras or inside to the Chesapeake
with a 456 in the spring.
thanks,
Stephen

[Larry Cohan]

chefmango wrote:

>I am most interested in knowing if you had any issues tween Norfolk and

>NC on the ICW ... I have

>to decide whether to go outside at Hatteras or inside to the Chesapeake
>with a 456 in the spring.
>thanks,
>Stephen
>
>

Stephen,

I've made a few trips on the ICW between Norfolk and NC with a 7' draft
on a First 38. The only time I had trouble was immediately after
Hurricane Floyd which flooded NC and that breached the walls of the land
cuts and made some unmarked shoals. Then the dredges came in to fix the
shoals and they caused me more problems than the shoals trying to get
around the dredging barges since they parked themselves in the good water.

The other times I bumped was due to inattention or poor judgment -- and
I would have probably bumped even with a 5 foot draft. You get
mesmerized running those land cuts for hours on end.

Remember that Hatteras is the graveyard of the Atlantic (see
http://www.uscg.mil/d5/station/hatterasinlet/). Yes, many boats,
including some on this list, have made it safely. But many do not. It
has all the wrong attributes: shoals, the Gulf Stream, sudden violent
weather fueled by the warm water, etc.

My advice is to do your family a favor and go inside at least from
Morehead City to Norfolk.

I posted my lessons learned on the Beneteau Owners web site
(http://www.beneteau-owners.com/). Search for "ICW Advice" once you get
there.

Larry Cohan

[Rick Donovan]

Jack

 

There are several 473 owners lurking here that may jump in on this question, several have been setting up for trips to warmer climates for a winter some time soon I believe and should also be able to contribute.

 

As a first thought, I know of several charter companies listing 473’s in their fleet. That would be a great way to get a real feel for the boat without being rushed to make a decision like you would if taking a test sail with a dealer.

 

We have just completed our 4^th season sailing our 473 around New England with a couple of races over to Nova Scotia thrown in for good measure. I can not say that I have a lot of “offshore” experience on this boat yet. Although I have a fair amount of offshore sailing on other boats, the bulk of our trips on the 473 have been 24-36 hours, sailing thru the night from point A to point B.

 

We have the “classic” main and a 150% genoa on furling as the sail plan at the moment. There is an optional stay sail stay available that I would definitely consider if we did more offshore work than we do. I myself would want the option of being able to douse the genoa in favor of a 90-100% stay sail on a furler, ready to go when needed if we spent more time offshore. I am not in favor of going onto the foredeck to wrestle a big sail down and put up a smaller sail on the existing roller furler, particularly if sailing alone or short handed. The argument becomes tacking the 150 with a stay sail stay up forward. If I am planning to sail offshore extensively, I will deal with the much smaller problem of tacking that big genoa to stay off the foredeck when it pipes up. Some of the other owners may have this option and can provide a little more info on that.

 

The shallow draft, cockpit design and sail controls layout are a major reason I chose this model. I sail alone fairly often for daysails (with the help of the autopilot) and I believe the cockpit design to be very good for short handed sailing. The boat does seem to like a breeze, above 11-12 knots true, to really have some legs. Our current boat record is 13.4 knots in 25-28 knots true wind speed with an asymmetric spinnaker up and about 150 degrees apparent wind direction. I feel the boat is well suited for the sailing we are doing right now, I call it performance cruising.

 

We have the 2 cabin model, so our aft cabin is not bad to sleep in because you can always get your body turned in a direction to get your head up higher than your feet.

For serious offshore use, I think the cabin layout needs a working set of sea berths to be really functional. I have had thoughts of adding lee cloths to the salon settees so that they could be used when offshore but have not had the need for it yet. The forward cabin is not what I would call ideal if it is rough and sloppy.

 

I would be happy to answer any more specific questions you may have offline at richard....@verizon.net to keep from cluttering up everyone’s emails with my rambling on.

 

I can provide a link to the polars for the 473 if you would like to see them, they may answer some of your performance questions.

 

Rick Donovan

Biddeford, Maine

Beneteau 473 #29

Turn the Page

 

 

[Bill Jarvis]

Stephen,

We had no issues with height or draft. Whatever you do, do not plan on
coming in through Hatteras. The trip inside from Norfolk is easy. I've made
it at least a dozen times, including the 473 and my own 47s7. my mast is
58' 101/2' before the instruments, tricolor and antenna. The channel is
supposed to be 12' and in all but a few places its that or more. There are
shallow spots south of Beaufort in NC however.

Bill

The lowest vertical clearance bridge is the Wilkerson bridge at the western
end of the Alligator Pungo cut. It was supposed to be 65' but actually
measures 64'

Hatteras inlet is south of Cape Hatteras so you would have to round the
Cape. If the 65' Bridge is a problem then an alternate is Oregan Inlet
which is to the north of the Cape. That still leaves you two 65' bridges to
negotiate however. One route 264 at Manteo and the other on Adams Creek
north of Beaufort, assuming you are continuing southward.

[Rick Donovan]

I have been around Cape Hatteras about 7-8 times on a friend's boat without
incident. WE NEVER ATTEMPT IT WITHOUT A RELIABLE AND FAVORABLE WEATHER
FORECAST, PERIOD. You are basically exposed for about 60 hours, on his boat,
with no place to hide if things get snotty unexpectedly. Add to that the
shallow depths and a strong north easterly current and the fact that this
area can seem to make its own weather at times and you have the makings for
a bad couple or three days at sea.

There is more than enough past history to prove that this place deserves its
bad reputation and lots of respect for the several reasons that Larry listed
already.

All that said; I would not hesitate to round Hatteras again with a favorable
forecast. There is a great sense of accomplishment in making this outside
trip.

I find the ICW boring unless you have the time to stop along the way and
enjoy it, not to mention that it seems like 128 around Boston for a few
weeks each spring and fall. There are so many interesting looking places
along the ICW to visit and never enough time. Most folks are in a rush to
get south in a certain time frame and just cant stop and smell the roses as
they say, myself included.

Everyone has limited time to make these kinds of trips. That limited time
will get you into a situation you don't want to be in, eventually.
Listen to your instincts!!!

[Sail...@aol.com]

Jack,

 

the only negative I've heard through the grapevine is that the rubber strip on the transom WILL come off in the ocean.   2  473's that raced to Bermuda this year had that problem.

 

 

Jeff

 

 

[Ca...@aol.com]

And ours got loose too ... but from hitting 10 kts in the Bay. And from hitting pilings. We are going to screw it in with 4200 added the next time the bottom job is done.

 

We haven't gone off shore yet in our 2 cabin version but plan to, and Rick D's comments about adding a Solent stay is probably a good idea. I too don't like the idea of going forward to fiddle around with that huge piece of sail cloth. Single handed I've taken down our Genoa at a dock and that was a major task. Absolutely never to be undertaken anywhere else!

 

According to a delivery skipper, the 473 is very dry and very stout off shore. He experienced problems that since have been solved, but after hitting 17 kts on a surf while staying dry during a gale, he was very impressed with the 473 design. Wide spaces below have never been a problem for us. Handholds don't seem that sparse to us as we have wandered around when banging around, but as Rick mentioned, we haven't lived off shore.

 

We plan to take Zydeco off shore and have a huge list of things to do for storage, communications, sail plan and power. So far it looks like the size and overall design of the boat can handle lots of options. The aft cabin to port we are thinking about using partly for storage. The center section under the cockpit will become a repository for heavy stuff that can be held in light weight cages that can be strongly mounted in place but be removable to access necessary stuff below. In this vein the fuel filter will be relocated to the 'basement' to starboard and be replaced with a 'Fuel Boss' system that gives us two filters that can be switched with the Yanmar still chugging away.

 

The starboard water tank will be replaced with a fuel tank, and you should plan for that from the start. I wish we knew ... The change takes water from 200+ gals to 150 and fuel from 60 to 120 gals. With a Spectra system in the basement along with a NextGen 3.5 or 5.5 genset you will still have room for the cockpit table along with other stuff.

 

It's still being sorted out in our minds ... These items and a cruising spi too! Rent one and give it a go, and don't hesitate to contact us off line.

 

Cap & Linda Munday
S/V Zydeco
B 473 #20
West River, Maryland, USA

[Ski...@aol.com]

 

The B- 473 is a very nice boat.  I owned an OC 400 for 7 years and took it to Bermuda twice with no problems.  However, recently I bought a new Jeanneau SO 49 and am very happy with the boat and it's sailing characteristics..  I opted for it over the 473 mostly for looks, but also I thought some of the hardware was some better.  As I stated in another e-mail I also had problems with the grid system that  Beneteau uses to reinforce the hull.  However, I now have learned that Jeanneau may go to the same system.

I would be reluctant to take my boat down the ICW because the mast is 65'.  I would not hesitate to take it around Cape Hatteras given the right conditions.  As far as that goes, I would also not hesitate to take a B 473 around the cape.  Dave, Nereus V

[meve...@cox.net]

I have a friend who has one and has done a good bit of offshore sailing with his. I don't know if he is on this list, so I will forward the message to him and see if he can give you some feedback. I know that he singlehands his quite a bit (sometimes has a "mate" onboard, but he does all the sailing).

Mike E.

[Kidd, James]

Dave,

Congrats on the SO 49. That is one pure beauty!

 

James A. Kidd

B 361.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ski...@aol.com [mailto:Ski...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:30 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[William Winters]

Mr. Ives,

I purchased a 2002, B473 in March of this year and sailed it every week in Lake Michigan this season.  The boat was only two seasons old and is in new condition.  Although Lake Michigan is not the open ocean, it can be as rough and at times rougher due to the short fetch of the waves in the great lakes.  The boat sails beautifully and swiftly in greater than 10 knots true wind.  She loves 20 to 25 knots and cuts through 6 to 8 foot waves without much spray over her tall bow.  She sails easily short handed as Mr. Donovan nicely expressed in his response to this tread.  I have an in-mast roller furling main sail, 150% genoa, shoal draft keel (5’11”), and we added a max-prop.  I am disappointed in the boat at less than 10 knots wind as the boat just creeps (I don’t have much patience, so on goes the engine for motor sailing).  Regarding the comment about chartering a 473 in order to try it out before you purchase, I offer the following recent experience over Thanksgiving week.  We chartered a 473 (Exclusive Line) from the Moorings in the BVI at Thanksgiving (we just didn’t get enough sailing in the great lakes this year) and I was very disappointed in the boat.  The Moorings boats are “dumped down” for the charter business and had very few options.  The sails were stretched out of normal shape resulting in poor sailing performance.  To be brief, the boat did not sail anything like my 473.  It reaffirmed my decision to purchase a nearly new boat with an extensive option list.  I have a two cabin version with aux. generator where the third cabin would go.  I plan to add an asymmetrical gennaker this winter to improve the less than 10 knot sailing performance in down wind conditions. 

 

Bill Winters

“Liberty” B-473

Chicago

 

 

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Ives

Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:23 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Liberty 473]

Mr. Ives,

I purchased a 2002, B473 in March of this year and sailed it every week
in Lake Michigan this season. The boat was only two seasons old and is
in new condition. Although Lake Michigan is not the open ocean, it can
be as rough and at times rougher due to the short fetch of the waves in
the great lakes. The boat sails beautifully and swiftly in greater
than 10 knots true wind. She loves 20 to 25 knots and cuts through 6
to 8 foot waves without much spray over her tall bow. She sails easily
short handed as Mr. Donovan nicely expressed in his response to this
tread. I have an in-mast roller furling main sail, 150% genoa, shoal
draft keel (5'11"), and we added a max-prop. I am disappointed in
the boat at less than 10 knots wind as the boat just creeps (I don't
have much patience, so on goes the engine for motor sailing).
Regarding the comment about chartering a 473 in order to try it out
before you purchase, I offer the following recent experience over
Thanksgiving week. We chartered a 473 (Exclusive Line) from the

Moorings in the BVI last month (we just didn't get enough sailing in

[Ski...@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/21/2005 11:21:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, jk...@kaydon.com writes:

Congrats on the SO 49. That is one pure beauty!

 

Thanks James, we're having a great time with the boat.  Dave, Nereus V

[Rick Donovan]

An interesting report on the condition of the Moorings 473. if I understand it correctly, the Moorings has been recently sold to another charter company. Sunsail I think it was, but not 100% sure. I always suspected they “dumbed down” the boats, at least in the Caribbean, because of the normally strong winds during peak charter season.

 

I have to keep reminding myself that Finot and Beneteau designed the 473 with more open ocean sailing in mind as I am struggling for boat speed in the light air of mid summer here in Maine. As a result of design parameters, I feel they are a little conservative on sail area. They do however offer a tall mast now that was not available when we purchased our boat. Not sure how much sail area is gained with the tall mast and I believe it is only done with the “classic” main, no furling main sail. As others have stated, the 473 does like a breeze.

 

As for the asymmetrical spinnaker for better light air performance, do your home work on that before placing an order. The asymmetric sail shapes have become very specialized for apparent wind directions when designed for light air. (i.e. narrow window of wind angle for each cut of sail) You need to know or talk to someone about what you are trying to accomplish with this sail to get the results you want. I also suggest that you have a sock/snuffer/chute scoop or whatever you want to call it, on the sail. They are a big help when sailing short handed. A full sized asymmetrical chute is a big sail on this boat.

 

I have found that this boat likes to be sailed much like a multihull down wind. It does not do well sailing DDW in light air. Gybing down wind is much faster because you can generate some apparent wind to get flow over the sails. I have found the polars to be a big help when I want to find more speed by using the suggested wind angles for the wind speed you have. If I am slow in boat speed, I am usually trying to sail to far off the wind.

 

For any one that does not have the 473 polars, this is the link to them on the Finot web site http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batproduction/beneteau/oceanis473/polaires/polaires.htm

[Taner HALAÇOĞLU]

Jack,

 

473 is a great boat but I think Beneteau is replacing it with the new 50.  I got the catolog and price list they started to sell them in Europe. Looks much better than 473 and is almost same price as 473 thats why I think it will replace 473. (my idea)

 

Happy Holidays All

Taner

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Ives

Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:23 PM

To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Ocean sailing in a 473

[meve...@cox.net]

Taner, et al.

I was told by one of the Beneteau executives at the Annapolis boat show that the 473 will be replaced by the new 50, which is by a new designer and will be very different from the current line in many respects. He said that they will be moving back through the line (i.e. the 423 or 393 may be the next to be replaced) over the next 10 years. Apparently, Beneteau likes to only keep models for about 6 years before replacing them. I guess it depends on sales numbers for the models. The 50's for the America market will be built in Marion. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Mike E.

[Mark Moskovitz]

If you go to the Beneteau France site, there is a french/english brochure
available for the new Oceanis 50 and pix.

Mark

[Dan Gingras]

Jack,

 

   I took a 473 from Marion MA to Bermuda this year.  I had posted a detailed report after the race, but in summary, she was fine.  You will need to modify the anchor locker to prevent taking large amounts of water, and I would recommend an inner forestay, but she is a solid offshore boat.   We had the normal Gulf Stream madness and she was comfortable in 30+ kts of wind and 12’ seas.

 

Dan

Capt Dan Gingras

O461 LIONHEART
Portsmouth NH

 

 

---

From: Beneteau-Own...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Beneteau-Own...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jack Ives
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:23 PM
To: Beneteau-Own...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Ocean sailing in a 473

 

I am in the process of shopping for a larger sailboat and I'm considering the Beneteau 473. From what I can see so far, the 473 meets most of my needs in terms of both the boat itself and the worldwide support for the product. Where I am getting stuck is lack of experience (and feedback) on this particular boat from those that have taken one offshore. My goal is to find a boat that will both comfortably and efficiently sail both along the coast and offshore. I should also point out that the boat is going to be single handed in most cases.

[Rick Donovan]

Hey Dan

You bring up a subject that I had forgotten about with the size and location of the anchor locker opening on the 473.

I have not had a problem, but there is a lot that could go wrong if the right things happen.

 

I am curious what you did as alterations or on securing the locker down in some way for the race to Bermuda??

[Dan Gingras]

Rick,

 

   The front of the anchor locker is wide open and in heavy weather with green water over the bow, the anchor locker will quickly fill.  The drain holes are insufficiently sized to drain it in this type of sea.  We glassed in a front panel with a small cut out for the chain, maybe 2” in diameter, and  plugged it up with foam.    In the Gulf Stream we were taking green water over the bow in GREAT quantities.

 

Dan

 

P.S.  Can you send me the name of the guy who built your Radar Arch offline.

 

---

From: Beneteau-Own...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Beneteau-Own...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Donovan

Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 12:31 PM
To: Beneteau-Own...@googlegroups.com

[Dan Gingras]

[Linda Masterson]

Rick and Dan.

 

 I have just started reading this owner list.  I have recently purchased a 2001 473 (hull # 5) and discovering many questions.  It is ironic how your discussions are paralleling my questions.  I was in rough water a few weeks ago off of Cape Fear NC and I can see how green water would get into the anchor compartment.  This is an interesting situation and I would think that green water over the bow is not so uncommon for ocean racing or cruising.  Do you have a picture of the glass job? Did you extend the lid or build up the deck?  Any information would be appreciated.  I will continue to read your emails with great interest.

 

My wife and I are moving our 473 to Fla and then to the Bahamas this season.  It is currently in Charleston SC for the holidays (we are home in California until mid-January). 

 

Do you have any experience with the full throttle RPMs and the propeller for the boat?  My boat has a maxi prop and I am concerned that it may be over pitched as I can not get the full throttle RPM stated in the manual.  I plan to pull it when I return to Charleston and confirm the pitch setting on the Maxi prop before continuing south.

 

I also read the emails about the shaft seal.  I did not burp it when I splashed the boat in November, so how do know if it is damaged as a result?

 

Regards,  Bob Masterson

B473  #5

s/v “Villomee”

 

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dan Gingras
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 3:28 PM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Ocean sailing in a 473

[Rick Donovan]

Bob

Congratulations on the 473, I think you will like the boat overall.

 

I have not had a problem with a lot of water getting into the anchor locker, but I can envision it happening quite easily with the right sea conditions. Fortunately, the 473 is quite dry until it gets into really sloppy sea conditions. I can also see a situation where the cover is hit hard enough by a boarding wave to break that funky little locking mechanism or worse, tear it out of the deck. If that area was to break in some way and allow the bow locker to get large amounts of water inside, it would be a bad situation for sure. I have used a short line to attempt to tie the cover down to the forward bow cleats as my only effort at prevention on this. Anything you can do to close up the opening for the chain on the forward end will help reduce the water that could get in and would reduce somewhat the forces of a wave to open the hatch cover.

 

As a side note on this same area of the bow, take an Allen wrench and check the bolts that hold the bow rollers in place to make sure they are tight, one on each end of each roller. I have twice had a screw back off and allow the anchor to hang out of position. Both times this happened no damage was done to the bow, luckily. The last time I used the blue removable Loctite to secure the screws and have not had it happen again. And while there, make sure the nut that secures the bow pulpit to the anchor roller assembly is also tight, the one at the center of the pulpit. Mine came loose and may have been loose from when it was assembled; I had never touched it since owning the boat until the pulpit started bouncing up and down one afternoon.

 

As for the possibility of the Max Prop being pitched wrong, I suggest that you have the tachometer on the operating panel checked for accuracy by using a hand held tachometer on the engine flywheel first. Our tach is way off at top rpm, reads something like 3100 instead of the actual 3600 that is read at the engine flywheel. I have heard of the Max prop being difficult to get set correctly by using the recommendations they provide with the manual, but I would make sure the info you are using to determine this is accurate first before resorting to hauling the boat and making changes to the pitch. We have the Westerbeke 63C4 with an AutoProp. We can motor, in flat water, no wind and fresh bottom like just after launch at just over 9 knots at full throttle. We cruise at 2000-2200 on our inaccurate tach and around 7.8 – 8.1 knots thru the water, actual RPM is more like 2600 – 2800 rpm. At those rpms we will use about 1.25 gallons per hour.

 

The burping of the shaft seal is accomplished by squeezing the rubber portion of the seal with your hand a couple of times with the boat in the water. A small amount of water will usually come in at the shaft because you have distorted the seal. Our 473 has a forward facing screen/scoop on the thru hull that I think will put some pressure up thru the tube and out thru the cutlass bearing. I was told to squeeze the seal by the dealer rep when launching the boat for the first time each year, but I think that the design of the thru hull would force the water thru anyway once the boat was moving thru the water with some speed. I use a small syringe from West Marine that was designed for inserting epoxy into small voids. I have a tube of Volvo Blue grease that came with the boat new and I add a small amount each time the boat is hauled so I don’t forget it in the spring. I squeeze the seal to slightly open the front of it and carefully insert the nose of the syringe about ¼” or so. I think it is more important to have grease there to lubricate the shaft lip seal and the stainless shaft than as to how much quantity to add. I would guess I am only inserting 3-4 cc’s of grease. Some one on this list had a source for other greases that you could use and I know Volvo has there own tube for this.

 

I would be happy to help where I can on any other questions you may have on the “new” boat and there are several more 473 owners lurking in the back ground here on the list as well.

[CLAUDE BENNETT]

St. Barts is located at City Marina in Charleston. They can help you. They commisson more Beneteaus than anyone in the country. Just ask for JM.

Ray