Perkins smoke issues

[Uwe]

Hi all,

I figured I start a new thread. We have a M60 which I'm playing with for several years now. I learned that you really need to look at the high pressure fuel pump orientation every time you change the timing belt tension. First thing I did was I bought a belt tension gauge. I was looking for a repeatable starting point. If you look at the high pressure fuel pump mounts, they actually had some play. It allows you to rotate the pump by several degrees. I was not able to find any information on timing angle (degrees) nor did we find any timing marks on the engine. So while the engine was running in idle, we started rotating the fuel pump assembly slowly. It was pretty amazing to see what difference a very little amount of change made. No more excess smoke unless I throw the gori in overdrive and try to do 3200 rpm which she actually can do! Let me know if you like to hear more details. I actually bought a set of rebuilt injectors which I have not used yet. If any body has any documentation on timing of the M60, please let me know. 

          Uwe Mewes

                45F5

     Heaven Can Wait

[Jon Schultz]

Uwe,

Thanks for the info, would you be able to provide a pic of what you did? I changed timing belt last year but can’t seem to visualize the process.  

Thank you,

Jon

S/V Just Chi-Ky

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 27, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Uwe <aum...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

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<Engine front new (6).jpg>

[Mastermuffin]

Here is a video of the version that was used in cars. i have messed with the timing but never when the engine was running. ill have to give that a go. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJMDECn90jU&list=PLMxbeN8TWiFgnIEmyCcTeGWtS1dhHb_3o&index=1

--

[Jon Schultz]

I’ve watched it. Great for changing the timing belt. I’ll have to review it again concerning the fuel

Pump assembly. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 27, 2021, at 3:11 PM, Mastermuffin <derik...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Uwe Mewes]

John,

please see attached. The green arrow points to my reference marks. The difference between the two lines is that I adjusted CCW to get satisfying results.

The black arrows point to the screws which mount the pump to the engine. There is one more screw on the other side of the pump. The red arrows point to the two screws at the rear end of the pump. 

You will see that there is plenty of play for adjustment on all those five screws. Just turn the screws loose enough to be able move the pump. Mark your starting position so that you can always go back to what it was. Allow the engine to warm up after start. When up on operating temperature, have a second person watch the exhaust while you are at your engine adjusting. Take your time! It's a very small adjustment either CW or CCW. I was able to do all this in my slip up to 2000 rpm. When out on the water, confirm that you can reach 3200 rpm. 

         Good Luck!

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[GBR33]

Hi, 

I have a 1996 Perkins M50, which smoked heavily on start up, since i bought it 2 years ago.

The hour meter had stopped working, and i guess it has about 4500 hours on the clock.

Last year i overhauled the cylinder head to replace the valve stem oil seals, injector service & new glow plugs. This had a small effect on starting & running, but no noticeable effect on the smoke. 

I undertook a compression test and found a couple of cylinders as low as 200 psi, and decided this winters job was to overhaul the block. 

I took the engine out & stripped the block to the bare casting and had it rebored at a local machine shop. The bores were overbored to +0.5mm, and the crank bearings & Journals were ok - just needed a polish and standard size bearing shells.

As part of the rebuild i also overhauled the oil pump and fitted a new water pump.

When it came to setting the timing of the injector pump, i followed the procedure in section 17 of the workshop manual and invested in a dial gauge that fits in the back of the pump and allows the setting of the timing at TDC. this proved to be a lot easier and straightforward than I expected. The gauge cost about £50 on ebay, and without it, setting the timing would have been guesswork. There were a couple of marks, as shown by the white arrow on a previous post - but these turned out to be way off once the timing was complete.

 Starting a rebuilt engine is always a nervous moment, but on the 2nd attempt it fired into life and runs sweet as nut.  She now starts on the button, with no smoke. I have not yet been out for a seal trial under load, but everything looks good - oil pressure, water flow, engine temp all in the green. 

 As regarding cost, I haven added it all up,  but excluding the 'other jobs i will do whilst the engine is out' i recon the final cost for parts ,tools & machining will be between £1,100 & £1,200. to put that in perspective, my neighbour, had a Beta 50 installed last year, and he didn't get much change from £12,000.

 There is nothing very difficult about rebuilding these engines, so don't be put off by the scope of the works. Just be methodical and follow the workshop manual, take lots of pictures as you strip off the components, use lots of yogurt pots to put the nuts & bolts in, and don't rush it.

 

here are a few pics of the process

[aum...@gmail.com]

Awesome post! Congrats to a job well done. 

Sent from my iPad

On May 17, 2021, at 3:10 PM, GBR33 <gp0...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi, 

I have a 1996 Perkins M50, which smoked heavily on start up, since i bought it 2 years ago.

The hour meter had stopped working, and i guess it has about 4500 hours on the clock.

Last year i overhauled the cylinder head to replace the valve stem oil seals, injector service & new glow plugs. This had a small effect on starting & running, but no noticeable effect on the smoke. 

I undertook a compression test and found a couple of cylinders as low as 200 psi, and decided this winters job was to overhaul the block. 

I took the engine out & stripped the block to the bare casting and had it rebored at a local machine shop. The bores were overbored to +0.5mm, and the crank bearings & Journals were ok - just needed a polish and standard size bearing shells.

As part of the rebuild i also overhauled the oil pump and fitted a new water pump.

When it came to setting the timing of the injector pump, i followed the procedure in section 17 of the workshop manual and invested in a dial gauge that fits in the back of the pump and allows the setting of the timing at TDC. this proved to be a lot easier and straightforward than I expected. The gauge cost about £50 on ebay, and without it, setting the timing would have been guesswork. There were a couple of marks, as shown by the white arrow on a previous post - but these turned out to be way off once the timing was complete.

 Starting a rebuilt engine is always a nervous moment, but on the 2nd attempt it fired into life and runs sweet as nut.  She now starts on the button, with no smoke. I have not yet been out for a seal trial under load, but everything looks good - oil pressure, water flow, engine temp all in the green. 

 As regarding cost, I haven added it all up,  but excluding the 'other jobs i will do whilst the engine is out' i recon the final cost for parts ,tools & machining will be between £1,100 & £1,200. to put that in perspective, my neighbour, had a Beta 50 installed last year, and he didn't get much change from £12,000.

 There is nothing very difficult about rebuilding these engines, so don't be put off by the scope of the works. Just be methodical and follow the workshop manual, take lots of pictures as you strip off the components, use lots of yogurt pots to put the nuts & bolts in, and don't rush it.

 

here are a few pics of the process

<4 - Crank & Pistons removed - Ready for the machine shop.jpg>

<5 - Back from the machine shop.jpg>

<6 - Clean shiny Pistons.jpg>

<7 - Cylinder head ready to reinstall.jpg>

<8 - Partially assembled, and back in position.jpg>

<10 - Setting the timing to the Injection pump.jpg>

<0- Let the fun begin.jpg>

<1 - Partially Dissasembled and sliding out.jpg>

<2 - Cylinder head removed.jpg>

<3 - Ready to remove the pistons.jpg>

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<0- Let the fun begin.jpg>

<5 - Back from the machine shop.jpg>

<10 - Setting the timing to the Injection pump.jpg>

<6 - Clean shiny Pistons.jpg>

<8 - Partially assembled, and back in position.jpg>

<3 - Ready to remove the pistons.jpg>

<4 - Crank & Pistons removed - Ready for the machine shop.jpg>

<2 - Cylinder head removed.jpg>

<1 - Partially Dissasembled and sliding out.jpg>

[chris evans]

Very nice ,many people have srapped this engine instead of rebuilding and my opinion  wasted a lot of money .Congratulations job well done

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[Uwe Mewes]

Can you share some more details about the dial gauge? What connects it to the pump? Did the adapter come with the gauge? Any help is very much appreciated because you are correct, it's a lot of guessing without.

     Uwe Mewes

         45F5

 Heaven Can Wait

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[Johnny Pool]

Get a professional to time the pump ,mine was .27 mm advanced ,you can’t guess that ,stopped the white smoke ,more rpm all for a $100 

Johnny Pool

On 20 May 2021, at 00:53, Uwe Mewes <aum...@gmail.com> wrote:



Can you share some more details about the dial gauge? What connects it to the pump? Did the adapter come with the gauge? Any help is very much appreciated because you are correct, it's a lot of guessing without.

     Uwe Mewes

         45F5

 Heaven Can Wait

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 3:10 PM GBR33 <gp0...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, 

I have a 1996 Perkins M50, which smoked heavily on start up, since i bought it 2 years ago.

The hour meter had stopped working, and i guess it has about 4500 hours on the clock.

Last year i overhauled the cylinder head to replace the valve stem oil seals, injector service & new glow plugs. This had a small effect on starting & running, but no noticeable effect on the smoke. 

I undertook a compression test and found a couple of cylinders as low as 200 psi, and decided this winters job was to overhaul the block. 

I took the engine out & stripped the block to the bare casting and had it rebored at a local machine shop. The bores were overbored to +0.5mm, and the crank bearings & Journals were ok - just needed a polish and standard size bearing shells.

As part of the rebuild i also overhauled the oil pump and fitted a new water pump.

When it came to setting the timing of the injector pump, i followed the procedure in section 17 of the workshop manual and invested in a dial gauge that fits in the back of the pump and allows the setting of the timing at TDC. this proved to be a lot easier and straightforward than I expected. The gauge cost about £50 on ebay, and without it, setting the timing would have been guesswork. There were a couple of marks, as shown by the white arrow on a previous post - but these turned out to be way off once the timing was complete.

 Starting a rebuilt engine is always a nervous moment, but on the 2nd attempt it fired into life and runs sweet as nut.  She now starts on the button, with no smoke. I have not yet been out for a seal trial under load, but everything looks good - oil pressure, water flow, engine temp all in the green. 

 As regarding cost, I haven added it all up,  but excluding the 'other jobs i will do whilst the engine is out' i recon the final cost for parts ,tools & machining will be between £1,100 & £1,200. to put that in perspective, my neighbour, had a Beta 50 installed last year, and he didn't get much change from £12,000.

 There is nothing very difficult about rebuilding these engines, so don't be put off by the scope of the works. Just be methodical and follow the workshop manual, take lots of pictures as you strip off the components, use lots of yogurt pots to put the nuts & bolts in, and don't rush it.

 

here are a few pics of the process

<4 - Crank & Pistons removed - Ready for the machine shop.jpg>

<5 - Back from the machine shop.jpg>

<6 - Clean shiny Pistons.jpg>

<7 - Cylinder head ready to reinstall.jpg>

<8 - Partially assembled, and back in position.jpg>

<10 - Setting the timing to the Injection pump.jpg>

<0- Let the fun begin.jpg>

<1 - Partially Dissasembled and sliding out.jpg>

<2 - Cylinder head removed.jpg>

<3 - Ready to remove the pistons.jpg>

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[DAVID FLETCHER]

I had a Prima 50. Just changing the timing belt and setting the tension reduced the smoke and made it run a little smoother. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 19, 2021, at 6:57 PM, Johnny Pool <bunge...@gmail.com> wrote:

Get a professional to time the pump ,mine was .27 mm advanced ,you can’t guess that ,stopped the white smoke ,more rpm all for a $100 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beneteau-owners/4EAA811F-91D2-4426-AFF1-878863ABE0EB%40gmail.com.