First 310 Deck Organizer Removal

[Christopher Hubbell]

Greetings,

I have a 1992 First 310 with a broken sheave on a deck organizer, so will need to remove it from the deck for repairs and re-bedding.  I’m puzzled because it’s the only piece of deck hardware that doesn’t penetrate the cabin liner and terminate in acorn nuts.  All others (clutches, fairleads, winches) have obvious and convenient hardware access.

Is anyone familiar with this configuration and able to explain what I need to do?  Wondering if there’s a good reason these don’t penetrate the liner, or if I’ll need to cut an access port...

Thank you,
Chris

1992 First 310 – Apothic
Pultneyville YC, Lake Ontario

[Greg Gaydos]

You can remove them using a hex key to remove from the outside of the cabin.

No need to cut the liner

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[Schoen Fitzgerald]

These are what mine look like, screwed from the outside. Glad you brought it up, I have some worn out too. Where did you get the replacements? Mine is 92 F310 also.

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[Christopher Hubbell]

I just mounted a fairlead outboard of the deck organizer, which forced me to pa a bit more attention to the deck in that area.  It looks like the organizer is simply threaded into a fiberglass area which is about 1/4” thick.  This, in theory, isn’t ideal as all deck hardware should be through bolted, and have sufficient backing plates.

 

There are two options to remedy this (that I see)...  You could cut a clean access panel, and then cover it much like the ones for winch access.  This is a great option if you are handy with the fabrication, and would allow installation of a backing plate.  The other option, and the one I’m more inclined to go with at this point, is to inject thickened epoxy (think ketchup – peanut butter) in the gap between liner and deck to make a firm compression area (fender-washer size) and then through bolt into the cabin and fasten with an acorn nut.

 

To answer the question on replacements, I haven’t yet.  I’m going to check with Rig-Rite, and if they don’t have anything I’ll likely go with a new organizer that’s easier to get parts for; Spinlock or Harken.

 

    -Chris

[Jack Vetter]

i had a 1991 38s5.  the deal we discovered was that the deck organizer is bolted to an aluminum plate buried in the fiberglass of the cabin top.  guess what?  you can't get to it from top of bottom without major destruction followed by major construction.  to the rescue....... Helicoil.  buy the kit.  put it in the stripped hole.  it bites the stripped plate and the new bolt.  ta da!  no problem for ten years after that and counting.  hope this helps.

jack vetter

Nota Bene (411)

nee Tutto Bene

[Christopher Hubbell]

I don’t have any stripped holes, just a broken sheave.  Unless my impact wrench shears off a bolt, I shouldn’t need a helicoil.

 

If there’s an aluminum plate in there then it won’t need as backing plate, which is a great thing to NOT have to do...  Not sure if the F310 is the same that way as the 38s5, but it would sure be nice.

 

Thanks,

Chris

[Bruce]

Replacing a worn sheave was remarkably easy (discovered only after purchasing the entire deck block assembly). Remove bolt through worn sheave. Replace with new sheave. Replace bolt. Done.

[Mark J Wilme]

If you have stainless bolts going into an aluminum plate then please remember to use Lanocote or similar.

Also may not be a bad idea to just clean through the threads in the backing plate before you put the existing or new bolts back in.

Mark Wilme
Mark....@Gmail.com

+1 (508) 826 5607

www.linkedin.com/in/markwilme            

[Christopher Hubbell]

Bruce,

Where did you source the sheave from? Direct from Beneteau, or elsewhere?

Thanks,
Chris

[Bruce]

Purchased from Beneteau USA Parts. The deck organizer including the sheaves, bolts, and nuts was part number 709650, and described as "Block Cheek 192".

[Schoen Fitzgerald]

Both Rig-Rite and US Spars have the sheaves listed as part number 1617. US Spars price is $5.60 each. My experience getting timely delivery from us Spars is better than Rig-Rite so us Spars is where I will be getting them.

On May 7, 2016 9:49 AM, "Bruce" <bruceg...@comcast.net> wrote:

Purchased from Beneteau USA Parts. The deck organizer including the sheaves, bolts, and nuts was part number 709650, and described as "Block Cheek 192".

[Christopher Hubbell]

Thanks for the source information – much appreciated!

 

 

 

From: Schoen Fitzgerald

Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 10:56 AM

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[S/V Slainte; First 310]

Ordered mine from US Spars on Saturday, shipped today.

[Rob Oceanis]

Re-posting this thread, as I am about to re-bed my deck organizers and need advice.  Ordered the #1617 replacement sheaves, which were a perfect match and still cost 5.60 ea.  There are stainless cylindrical bearings on the insides of the old sheaves to transfer to the new ones (see photo of old sheave).

I have two questions:

1.  Reading this thread, apparently there were all kinds of different types of deck beddings for these organizers.  Mine actually just have the sheave bolt tips and thewashers and nuts that come through my cabin top (see photo). The tips of the bolts were hacksawed off, if you can believe that.  It appears that a silicone-like material was used to bed these washers and nuts, and they do not appear to have ever leaked in 30+ years.  Looking at bedding materials, maybe 3M Marine Sealant 101 is what I should re-bed the nuts with?

2.  I am worried about under-or over-tightening the sheave bolts.  If I under-tighten them, the bolt assemblies may leak?  If I over-tighten them, it might seize the sheaves.  Any insight on how to handle this?  I guess the biggest thing is to put enough bedding material under the nuts inside the cabin.

Thanks for any input,

Rob

[david grove]

Rob,

To the answer to your first question, I would just snug the nuts/bolts together and stop when the sheave just starts to set down.  You are correct that you do not want to squeeze the bedding out.  When you transfer the cylinder over it might stand a little proud of the sheave, so that might help it from freezing up if you go too tight.  If you are that tight, you definitely would have squeezed the bedding out.

on the 2nd question, I would use 3m 4200 white.  Your choice of fast cure or normal cure. If you haven't used it before, make sure to tape any area you do not want this stuff on.

Can you tell me the size of your sheave?  I need to replace mine too and I have a hard time matching my measurements with a US Spar part #. 

Thanks

David

s/v Temptress

B323

[Rob Oceanis]

David,

Thanks for your answers - I appreciate them.

The US Spar part #1617 sheave is 35mm diameter and 8mm thick, white delrin.  (My original ones were black but the size is exactly the same, and the inner stainless cylindrical bearing fits perfectly in the US Spar replacement.)

Rob

s/v Foxfire

O350

[crashmorrison]

Rob,

The totally complete and right way to do this is to chuck up a bent nail or old allen wrench, and rout out the balsa core from around each bolt hole between the inner and outer skin of fiberglass.  Then put tape over the bottom of each bolt hole and fill the holes with epoxy using an epoxy syringe.  Use a nail or piece of wire to make sure there are no air bubbles.  After the epoxy cures, re-drill the bolt holes.  Now the balsa core is isolated from the bolt hole and any potential leak of water into the core.  Then buy a counter-sink bit the same size as the bolt hole, and lightly countersink the top of the bolt holes,  that way when you put your sealant in place, you've created an "O-ring" at the top of the hole to help ensure a good seal.  Then reassemble your deck organizer.  The steel inner bearings prevent you from tightening the bolts too tight for the sheaves to turn, and the epoxy you inserted into the core, between the inner and outer skins, prevents you from "crushing" the core by overtightening.

Let me know if this doesn't make sense to you and I can either post a drawing, or give you my cell phone number to call, so I can talk you thru it.  Adds an extra day to the process, but is well worth the extra effort.

Pete Morrison

[Mark J Wilme]

One other thing on this thread (I agree with Pete BTW on his description). I always assumed that part of the reason for the slve inside the doohickey was so that you could tighten down the bolt, it would come up tight on the sleeve (aluminum, stainless, whatever), securing the block housing securely to the deck, but allow the bushing to revolve/rotate around it.

Maybe my understanding is off.

Mark

 

[Rob Oceanis]

Pete,

Thanks for your input. I know exactly what you are talking about, as I had to do that sort of job on my water deck fill (the original had seeped around the fitting). While I don't look forward to the extra work, you are correct that it's the right way to do this job in order to be worry-free in the future.

Mark, I think you are correct, but the design still seems at risk of over- or under-tightening. Over-tightening might somehow impede the sheave, or crack the aluminum housing, or squeeze some of the bedding material up into the assembly since the bolts are the sheave shafts. Under-tightening might cause the nuts to loosen and leak, since it's put together without lock washers.  But now I'm over-analyzing the thing...just need to get to work on it now!

Thanks,

Rob

[Rob Oceanis]

Good-news post script on this sheave replacement job.  The deck was designed and formed with solid fiberglass (no core) in the space under the deck organizers. We were able to pull the old sheaves, polish the ss bushings, and reassemble them sealing the bolt tops and undersides with 4200, all in about an hour.