FW Hose Replacement

[Bob Getty]

Ahoy Group

The fresh water system leakage on Our Dream, '97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195, has finally  gone from annoyance to real a problem.  For the last several years we have tolerated it and coped by shutting off the FW Pump Breaker at night and when FW not needed.  Now the leakage has grown to require almost constant FW pump running and significant water accumulation of FW in bilge sump.  I have never been successful in localizing the source of the leakage but strongly suspect it is behind the HW heater in the vicinity of the Accumulator.  Since it rapidly accumulates in the bilge sump just in front of the HW heater I don't think it is in the lines going to the Galley, Head or Stern Shower.  

I solicit the learned Group's experience with replacing or removing the accumulator and hoses which I would do concurrent with replacing the FW pump.   

Since I dread the work, I also ask if any one knows of a yard or someone in the Kent Island/Annapolis/ area that could be trusted to do the work.  Appreciate any advice the Group can offer.  

--
                   Bob 
         S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
   Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
     Chester River  Kent Island
           Chester, MD
             _/)__/)__/)_
                Gmail

[Bligh]

When faced with location a leak, we start by adding food coloring to the fresh water tank and tracing the read (or green,or blue) stream back to the leak.  The hard part is explaining why our fresh water looks like blood until we exhaust the tank.

Cooper

Sent from Coopers' galactic communicator

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[Bligh]

Our boat is 16 years young and we are starting to have small, hard to find leaks that usually are near the water heater where the most thermal stress occurs.  In many cases the leak is a pin hole that produces a stream so fine that it is almost invisible.  The place we see it is where it hits something sometimes feet away.  I really think our boat troll is helping hide the stream with a tiny portable nozzle he attaches to leaks.  The water pipe material has yet to fail catastrophically.  

Cooper

Sent from Coopers' galactic communicator

[Bob Getty]

Bligh, 

I've tried just about everything else so I'll give the food coloring a shot.  

The area behind the water heater on a 351 is where the accumulator is located and is the only under seat area that does not have an access cover.  I guess I have to cut one.  Anyone have any thoughts?

[davidcfletcher]

Can you get your hand on the two hose connections to the water heater. If they are leaking you will be able to feel the wetness. Might be the relief valve.

Water heaters řend to have a life span of 10 to 15 years,is it the original.

You can find it

Sent from Samsung Mobile

[rvluc...@yahoo.com]

Welcome to reoccurring issue with water heater plumbing. The hoses become porous. They spray a fine mist when under pressure. Go to the big box and buy braided SS hose/s and replace. You must use fiber washers to get a proper seal.

Bob L
oc321/Latitudes/Chicago

---

From: davidcfletcher <davidcf...@rogers.com>

Sender: benetea...@googlegroups.com

Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:09:36 -0400

To: Beneteau Group<benetea...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Joker460]

I went through that last year and your boat should be close to mine(B352).The cold water hose to the port sink had a split in it and leaked when pressurized. It was hell to replace. You can see what needs to be done. The hoses run beneath the electrical conduit runs. I had to use a vibrating saw like http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-JobMax-3-Amp-Multi-Tool-Starter-Kit-R28600/202672276?N=5yc1vZc2b2 so that I would not cut the conduits. Used a hook to pass between the conduits and pull the hose up. Time consuming but doable. You'll need to use a electrical fishing tool or use the existing hose to pull the new hose through.

Good luck

[Bob Getty]

Thanks for all the info.  I'm overwhelmed but will try to understand it.

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[lawrence schneider]

Bob,

 

                Nice to “hear” from you. Sorry your having problems with Our Dream.

 

I’ve had incredibly good results with AYS. Their guys are certified, have been voted as Eastport Yacht Club maintenance “wizards,” and do super work. They certainly know Beneteaus. I recommend you call Chris Humphries and discuss what he can do.

 

                larry

 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Getty

Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2014 1:23 PM
To: Beneteau Owners Group

--

[Jeff Taylor]

Bob ,  I highly recommend Mark Mayo, at Southern Cross Marine .   He merged his business with a rigger, they at The out buildings next to KATO marine at Jabins.

The accumulator could have rusted out, you could remove the accumulator and replace it with a Jabsco or Flojet water pump does not require in an accumulator to make it work.   I did that on Vixen .

Sent from my iPhone.  

Jeff Taylor

--

[ourdr...@gmail.com]

Thanks, Larry, good to hear from you. 

I appreciate your advice about AYS I think I will at least discuss it with Chris.

 

Bob
S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·
´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[ourdr...@gmail.com]

Jeff,

Thanks I have considered the new water pump too.

I’ll give Mark a call too.

 

Bob
S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·
´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

[Lawrence Schneider]

Bob,

Take care,

Larry

Sent from my iPad

[Cap Munday]

You might also talk to the guys at Hartge Yacht Yard about your problems. Depends on who is better priced and closer, but both outfits are great.

 

Cap Munday

 

[lawrence schneider]

                Bob,

 

                That too is an excellent recommendation. Call “Scooter.”

 

                Larry

                Dragon 3

[ourdr...@gmail.com]

Thanks Cap I’ll give them consideration but they are at some distance from Kent Island.  But money is what talks.

 

 

Bob
S/V Our Dream
'97 Beneteau Oceanis 351 #195
Slip C-17, Castle Harbor Marina
Chester River Kent Island
Chester, MD
_/)__/)__/)_

·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·
´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>

From: 'Cap Munday' via Beneteau Owners

Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2014 10:02 PM

To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} FW Hose Replacement

You might also talk to the guys at Hartge Yacht Yard about your problems. Depends on who is better priced and closer, but both outfits are great.

 

Cap Munday

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: lawrence schneider <larry.sc...@verizon.net>
To: beneteau-owners <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Jun 29, 2014 6:31 am
Subject: RE: {Beneteau Owners} FW Hose Replacement

Bob,

 

                Nice to “hear” from you. Sorry your having problems with Our Dream.

 

I’ve had incredibly good results with AYS. Their guys are certified, have been voted as Eastport Yacht Club maintenance “wizards,” and do super work. They certainly know Beneteaus. I recommend you call Chris Humphries and discuss what he can do.

 

                larry

 

[davidcfletcher]

Value rules

It is a combo of price and other things. 

Remember you normally get what you pay for.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------

[Bob Getty]

An update on the progress of the search the search for the FW leakage on "Our Dream".  The discharge goes thru a manifold with 3 connections.  

Forward to Aft, 

1.  2 cold water faucets (head & galley sinks) and a tee to the Aft swim shower at the transom.

2.  Water heater.  

     (I haven't found the distribution of the HW from the water heater to the head & galley sinks)

3.  Accumulator tank under the Stbd. settee.  

I removed each connection and plugged the header connection.  By this process of elimination determined the leak was in the forward most line.  The one to the 2 faucets and the swim shower. Separating the line to the swim shower from the 2 faucets determined the LEAK was in the line to the swim shower.  This line disappears toward the water heater.  I haven't determined the entire route but since the water quickly accumulated in the bilge sump near the water heater I assume it is in the main cabin not under the bunk in the rear stateroom.  

For the present I'm just leaving the swim shower line disconnected.  We seldom used it since swimming in the Chesapeake Bay is not a big activity for us.  

Thanks to all who responded with suggestions and advice.

[Brian Smith]

On Aug 25, 2014, at 10:16 AM, Bob Getty <ourdr...@gmail.com> wrote:

For the present I'm just leaving the swim shower line disconnected.  We seldom used it since swimming in the Chesapeake Bay is not a big activity for us.  

Bob,

Since taking my family to the Bahamas a couple of times, they will no longer swim in the Chesapeake either!  A cab driver on Great Exuma said “I won’t swim in water I can’t see through”, and the kids just echo his quote.

A family friend swam after getting a scrape on his leg two weeks ago.  He is now going for the second lance and drain, since antibiotics won’t kill whatever he got from the water.

Such a shame.  A beautiful body of water.  I hope we can recover it somehow.

Brian

Annapolis

[Captain Guy]

Not sure of organism affecting your friend...

 

here in FL, warm fresh water lakes have natural critters that will enter body and kill.  Not something caused by humans and in need of recovery.  Ditto some fresh water rivers in S.A. and elsewhere, untouched by human detritus, but still deadly.

 

Guy

 

From: Brian Smith

Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:35 AM

To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Andrew Callahan]

Brian,

 

For what it’s worth, in the Chesapeake during the summer there are three organisms to consider as a possible etiology, once the usual Staph and Strep have been ruled out. Two are Vibrio species (V. vulnificus and V. parahaemolyticus) and the third a mycobacterium (M. Marinum)) The major concern would be the V vulnificus, often missed by ER docs and family practioners/nurse practioners and does not respond to the typical agents used to treat cellulitis (Keflex, a quinolone, Augmentin), can be fatal with the onset of septicemia (more likely in alcoholics and the immunosuppressed), reported incidence has increased over the past 15 to 20 years, was personally involved in two fatal cases on the Eastern shore during that time period.. The second Vibrio usually causes a gastrointestinal syndrome and the mycobacterium would be least likely, causing an indolent infection, often called “fish fancier’s finger” due to the association between fish tanks, injury and subsequent infection.

 

Kevin

Oxford

[Captain Guy]

FROM DiscNews July 14 2014

The brain-eating amoeba that killed a 9-year-old Kansas girl last week is an organism that thrives in warm fresh water and can be found in lakes, rivers, hot springs and soil, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The victim, reportedly had swum in several lakes over the past few weeks near her home in Spring Hill. The Kansas Department of Health confirmed that she died from primary amoebic meningoencephalitis (PAM) caused by the amoeba, Naegleria fowleri, which she likely inadvertently inhaled via lake water.

"Once forced up the nose, it can travel to the brain, where it digests brain cells," Jonathan Yoder, an epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told Discovery News. "It's a very tragic disease that thankfully is very rare."

 

guy

[Dean Forbis]

I quit swimming in the Neuse River in NC after my whole family and a few friends all got ear infections one weekend. Being down stream from most of the pig farm/waste ponds probably did not help.  

[dbg...@mindspring.com]

late summer swimming in southern waters can be dangerous,  water temps get into high 80's and more,  water is not flowing or circulated well , fed by even warmer creeks with contaminants or lack of rain due to drought conditions,  creating an environment for bad critter growth,

back in the day Menengitis found a home in me, after a hot August day sailing on a corp of engineer lake...  I'm concerned whenever the water turns to "hot"...and the water is slow moving... 

the operative is to be concerned, aware of the conditions, swim with caution in unknown / still hot waters... in just a few post we demonstrated there is reason for concern 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Forbis
Sent: Aug 25, 2014 3:03 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Unresponsive cellulitis/abscess/infection

I quit swimming in the Neuse River in NC after my whole family and a few
friends all got ear infections one weekend. Being down stream from most of
the pig farm/waste ponds probably did not help.

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Captain Guy wrote:

> FROM DiscNews July 14 2014
>
> The brain-eating amoeba that killed a 9-year-old Kansas girl last week is
> an organism that thrives in warm fresh water and can be found in lakes,
> rivers, hot springs and soil, according to the Centers for Disease Control
> and Prevention.
>
> The victim, reportedly had swum in several lakes over the past few weeks
> near her home in Spring Hill. The Kansas Department of Health confirmed
> that she died from primary amoebic meningoencephalitis (PAM) caused by the

> amoeba, *Naegleria fowleri*, which she likely inadvertently inhaled via

> lake water.
>
> "Once forced up the nose, it can travel to the brain, where it digests
> brain cells," Jonathan Yoder, an epidemiologist at the Centers for Disease
> Control and Prevention, told Discovery News. "It's a very tragic disease
> that thankfully is very rare."
>
>
>
> guy
>

> *From:* Andrew Callahan
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 1:35 PM
> *To:* benetea...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Unresponsive

> cellulitis/abscess/infection
>
> Brian,
>
> For what it’s worth, in the Chesapeake during the summer there are three
> organisms to consider as a possible etiology, once the usual Staph and
> Strep have been ruled out. Two are Vibrio species (V. vulnificus and V.
> parahaemolyticus) and the third a mycobacterium (M. Marinum)) The major
> concern would be the V vulnificus, often missed by ER docs and family
> practioners/nurse practioners and does not respond to the typical agents
> used to treat cellulitis (Keflex, a quinolone, Augmentin), can be fatal
> with the onset of septicemia (more likely in alcoholics and the
> immunosuppressed), reported incidence has increased over the past 15 to 20
> years, was personally involved in two fatal cases on the Eastern shore
> during that time period.. The second Vibrio usually causes a
> gastrointestinal syndrome and the mycobacterium would be least likely,
> causing an indolent infection, often called “fish fancier’s finger” due to
> the association between fish tanks, injury and subsequent infection.
>
> Kevin
> Oxford
>

> *From:* Captain Guy
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 11:11 AM
> *To:* benetea...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: FW Hose Replacement

>
> Not sure of organism affecting your friend...
>
> here in FL, warm fresh water lakes have natural critters that will enter
> body and kill. Not something caused by humans and in need of recovery.
> Ditto some fresh water rivers in S.A. and elsewhere, untouched by human
> detritus, but still deadly.
>
> Guy
>

> *From:* Brian Smith
> *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2014 10:35 AM
> *To:* benetea...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: FW Hose Replacement

[Howell Cooper]

It is highly  likely that I am a bit long in the teeth but I have been in water more or less all my life without regard to what might be in it other that those things that do not recognize me as nearly at the top of the food chain.  That includes many months in rice paddies, old stock tanks in west Texas and about every kind of salt water. Only recently have I been hearing about the cooties that can kill such as those discussed here.  Texas has many muddy lakes and rivers and they were never a concern so long as the mud stayed out of the house.  What is causing these things to be so lethal?  Have they always been with us? 

 

Cooper

Why Knot

[Dragon...@aol.com]

The cooties are

 

Thanks!
Dean & Bonnie
s/v Dragonfly B331 #214
/) /) /) /) /) /) /) /) /) /)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Dragon...@aol.com]

The primary cause is that the cooties are morphing due to antibiotic over prescribed use in humans and animals (per my ship's doctor) for the last 2-3 decades.  It sets up a new more resistant strain adapting to the antibiotics.

[Thomas Lucke]

FWIW, our temps here in Casco Bay (ME) are the warmest of the season at 64F

[Bligh]

Wow!  The surf temp in Port Aransas, Tx is 84 F right now.  Harbor temp can reach 90 f.  One can watch oysters and barnacles grow (well almost).  

Cooper

Why Knot

Sent from Coopers' galactic communicator

[DSJ - "Persistence"]

These types of leaks are a bear to locate.  We kept seeing moisture and a dribble in the bottom section behind the head where the wall panels join.  After many hours and weekends turning things on and off, much sweat, and a fair amount of bad language, we finally isolated the leak on our '96 to the heat exchanger inside of the hot water heater, where the engine water runs through the exchanger.  We inspected literally every line and joint in the boat and finally my wife saw a faint damp spot behind the water heater - I just couldn't contort myself inside of the locker to get into a position to see behind the HW heater previously.  Certainly there was nothing obvious from the outside.  New HW heater and now no leak.  Voila!

All I can recommend is to keep checking all joints and best of luck.

On Saturday, June 28, 2014 1:23:32 PM UTC-4, Bob, OC 351 wrote:

[Andrew Callahan]

Cooper,

 

Many reasons for the increase. The organisms have always been there, the Annals of Internal Medicine had an article on Vibrio vulnificus infections back in 1990 or 1991, about 109 cases (three syndromes – gastroenteritis, wound infections and septicemia) collected from Florida and the Gulf coast. Vibrio is halophilic so the majority, if not all, cases are associated with salt water. Not really a concern with swimming if one has no open wounds and an intact immune system. I believe they have been around for ages, just getting more and more press, better diagnoses and awareness all leading up what seems like an epidemic, actually, infections are relatively rare, if I remember correctly, the Annals article covered 10+ years of data. I don’t believe that human antibiotic overprescribing has anything to do with the “resistance” shown by these isolates although supplemented animal feed, followed by excrement and run off into the Chesapeake might have a role.  Innate antibiotic resistance is present in a number of species, another article from Taiwan from the early 2000’s documented a high degree of resistance in the isolates found there, not certain about antibiotic supplemented feed over there.

 

As Guy noted, there are other concerns with fresh/brackish water, molds, fungi and Aeromonas hydrophilia all have been reported as etiologic agents in the US, in Africa, Onchoceriasis (river blindness) due to a parasite comes to mind.

 

So saying, grew up swimming in Long Island Sound, swam in the Great Lakes a few times in the service in the late 60’s, been diving in a Pacific a number of times over the last 15 years and swimming in the Chesapeake (when nettle free) for the last 50 years, and the so far, so good. As Ivars pointed out, if one is aware of the concerns and takes the appropriate precautions, one is likely to continue to sail and swim in good health.

 

Kevin

[Mark Stillwell]

Thanks for the update. I saw a report recently that agreed with overprescribing was not an issue. However, the report noted research was exploring how low levels of antibiotics in soap could be impacting  resistance. Nothing definite, just a theory to test through research.

Mark & Suzanne Stillwell
S/V Dragonfly II

Beneteau 393

573.819.0436

[Howell Cooper]

Kevin,

Thanks for the reply.  Good stuff and good to know.

 

Cooper

[Michael Roper]

May I add that those of us who have been in the water all our life and are the product of high living and low thinking and now have diabetes 11 MUST HAVE  CARE AND CONCERN with diabetic ulcers. My problem is the sea and it gets more dangerous as we get closer to the coral reefs.

[jbf...@comcast.net]

Wow, I have to say this is one of the more interesting stings I have seen in a long time.  Thank you for this input!

Joe

Sent from Xfinity Mobile App

------ Original Message ------

From: Andrew Callahan
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Sent: August 26, 2014 at 4:14 PM
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: {Beneteau Owners Unresponsive cellulitis/abscess/infections

Cooper,

[Paul Schwab]

Like Bob, I have been chasing a leak in my FW system all year.  I would guess that I was seeing about a gallon per day accumulate in the bilge/grid.

 

I located a 3/16” split in the hose feeding the FW pump at the inlet elbow fitting.  It wasn’t readily visible because another hose ran immediately below the inlet fitting and the leaking water ran along the underside of that hose directly into the grid.  This leak was in the non-pressurized side of the system but was below the level of the FW tanks and they just drained down at a pretty good rate.

 

Paul

1999 Beneteau Oceanis 352, #282

S/V WiTCHCRAFT

South Shore YC, Milwaukee, WI

 

From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Getty
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:16 AM
To: Beneteau Owners Group
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: FW Hose Replacement

 

An update on the progress of the search the search for the FW leakage on "Our Dream".  The discharge goes thru a manifold with 3 connections.  

[sail abroad]

I discovered a leak in the rear fresh water tank around the water level sensor- so there's a copper wire conductor that goes into the tank, the blue rubberized sealant around the conductor had detached from the inspection bung - it was a tiny, tiny hole but let about 1ltr an hour into the bilge, but only in rough conditions when the boat was being thrown around a bit. I tried to replace the sealant on the outside - (with sikaflex) but that also soon detached, I had to open the bung and sikaflex fill the recess into which the conductor wire comes through.

While we're on leaks..

(2) Bottom of Anchor locker - cracks in fibreglass - allowed seawater into the front of the boat - forward of the forward cabin in the front impact gap when - waves break over bow and seawater flows into anchor locker.

(3) Front Anchor locker chain counter wire through-hull leaks into forward cabin behind headliner( on the starboard side)

(4) Wire through-hulls in front of mast leak.

(5) Wet Locker - roca locker catch leaks into the aft below rear steps for the wet locker in rough weather or heavy rain..

(6) Roca locker catch on Rear walk through bench/seat leaks rainwater into boat - the glass de-laminated from use of the bench seat 

(7) Water tank filler through-hull leaked between deck and fitting - Port side forward tank.

(8) Missing screws - ?!! from underneath a plug in the teak decking leaked water into rear locker.