first week with new 473

[mjb]

We just completed our first week and have had some ups and downs -
overall, we're very excited and love the boat - we've slept onboard 5
nights and we've had 4 days of sailing - including a beautiful early
Spring sail today on Long Island Sound in 12 - 15 kts and sunny (but
cool) skies.

However, we've had several problems and I'd like to know if other's
have had similar problems.

The most severe is a constant sea water leak. After two days of
exploration and troubleshooting, it appears that the source is the two
little holes in the transom that serve as drains for the lip around the
transom and the small locker on the swim platform. Our bilge fills
with water daily - including the main bilge, the engine compartment,
the compartment under the generator, and the area under the swim
platform. The dealer has seen this problem on two other boats and will
now haul our boat and fix/repair these two drain holes. Has anybody
experienced this problem? Are your bilges completely dry?

We went for a two hour sail today. Before we started, we drained all 4
fresh water tanks and sponge dried the bilge and engine compartment
(actually, the dealer did the sponging!). Upon our return, the bilge
was filled above the stringers up to the keel bolts and the engine
compartment had an inch of water. Good news/bad news - this confirmed
that the water was coming from the transom drain holes (we think!).

We also had two cracked fresh water level indicator windows (that's 2
out of 4 tanks). These leaked fresh water when the tanks were filled
(which helped mask the sea water leak above). The dealer has ordered
two replacement parts and will replace within the next few days.
Anybody have this problem?

Also, we noticed that all 4 fresh water tanks have wire leads that are
bundled but not connected. We assume these are for an electronic water
level meter but the dealer has no record of this option. Anybody know
what these leads are for?

Other smaller problems:
1) The floorboard in the galley sits on top of the starboard water tank
hose and needs to have a groove routed to sit flat
2) The fresh water tank hoses are not installed to the manifold in the
order prescribed in the manual which was a pain to figure out
3) One winch handle is broken
4) The "arm" that connects the rudder sensor for the autopilot to the
steering quadrant was installed backwards by the factory and broke
(dealer already replaced and fixed)

The dealer has been very responsive and helpful (and even proactive).
They've spent considerable time helping to find and fix the problems.
I expect new boat "problems" but the major leak is a major bummer!

[b393capt]

Where is your 473 now? There was another boat in that slip this
evening.

Dan

[mjb]

We moved to our assigned spot which is on the western pier at the very
end - right behind the yellow crane.

Mike

[b393capt]

See any one else on the sound sailing this week ?

[Max Lynn]

You're having a little more trouble than the average bear, I would say. I
have heard of other boats, including (dare I say) Catalina's which have had
problems with leaks in and around the swim step compartments. Some to the
point that they just gave up and glassed them over. Are my bilges dry?
Yes, except for rainwater down the mast and wet spinnakers on occasion.

My 40.7 has foil (capacitive) type level sensors on the water tanks which
are read at a meter on/near the electrical panel. I suspect the leads you
are referring to would be used in the same fashion.

But it sounds as if you are getting the response you need by the dealer to
solve the problems. That's essential, but only what you should expect for
your expenditures. Don't settle for less. And enjoy.

Max Lynn
First 40.7
"Tranquility"

[Jean VAURY]

Hi
There were several threads in the past on owners complaing on the stern
heavy aspect of the 473, being happy for everything else. i remember some
always kept a water tank fill forward. remember that the legislation in
france was very tough on the amount of chain 2 anchors etc which made some
french designed boats stern low with the more us tradition of less chain
more rope, things have changed by the way and there are no more standards on
which and how many anchors you need. it has to be adequate full stop ...
jean

>From: "mjb" <MJBe...@gmail.com>
>Reply-To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
>To: "Beneteau Owners" <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: {Beneteau Owners} first week with new 473

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

[bbigd...@aol.com]

Hi Mike,

I think I saw you heading out last Saturday. at about 10:30. I didn't
get out until noon so I could find you. Good luck and I hope your
troubles get fixed soon.

Bill Wagner
Santa Maria
Huntington, NY

-----Original Message-----
From: mjb <MJBe...@gmail.com>
To: Beneteau Owners <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:50:49 -0700
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} first week with new 473

[Ted Weitz]

Good to hear that Willis is doing a good job but sorry you are having so many problemns with quality.  Seawater leaks are ntohing to sneeze at.  Keep us posted and I hope that all these things shake out.

Ted

Ted Weitz
tm...@columbia.edu

[Eta and Gordon Johnson]

We are getting a new 423 and the dealer told us that the drain holes were
the source of most leaks. The holes in the swim platform lockers don't show
at the plant because the holes sit above the water. When under power, the
boat squats in the water, submerging the holes, which show leaks for the
first time.

I wonder if this too is your problem.

Gordon

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mjb
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:51 PM
To: Beneteau Owners
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} first week with new 473

[Rick Donovan]

MJB

Our bilge is almost always wet, but with fresh water and never to the point
that you seem to be describing. We would have about 2 or maybe 3 quarts of
fresh water each 24 hours we are onboard as normal. The standard bilge pump
has always taken care of it easily so it hasn't reached the levels that you
are describing unless we are sailing for a long period on starboard tack.

Our mid tanks are built into the hull as I expect are yours. Because of that
the fittings and covers for each of those tanks tops surfaces are screwed
into very thin fiber glass. Several screws are stripped from my dealer
trying to stop the leaks at these points that we found early on as well. The
mid port tank seems to be the worst offender on this for us. Someone
recently mentioned using 5200 on these covers and I may give that a try this
spring as we don't really need to remove them. I only want them to stop
their slow leaks.

We seem to get a lot of rain down the mast for some reason; other owners
have also mentioned this problem. We have from day one, so the opening
between the mast and that first stringer will also have water in it after a
good rain. If we don't sop up that water at the same time we do the main
bilge area, it will migrate to the bilge eventually. The holes between the
stringers are relatively small so it may take a while. I went so far as to
add several lines into the mast thinking that the cut outs for those unused
lines were the offenders, but it didn't really make any difference that I
could tell. It seems to be a problem because of the internal halyards.

I would be really concerned, as you are, about the amount of sea water and
make sure the dealer gets to the bottom of the problem. It is good to hear
that they are working well with you to fix this problem. I am not aware of
others having the drain holes you speak of. Maybe someone else will step in
to confirm that is a change on the later boats. I am going to have to look
closer on the next trip to the boat, but I don't recall any drain holes in
the area you are describing, at least as I have read your description. We do
have one drain in the floor of the locker that allows sea water into the
locker because the floor is below the water line. We don't store anything in
this locker because of that.

The cracked water tank windows are probably from being over tightened in an
effort to stop the leaking on this very poor design of a tank. We have had
no problems with the 2 plastic tanks at all. To bad they didn't do the same
sort of thing for the mid tanks.

The leads are for water level indicators I have heard on this site, but my
dealer had no idea either. Cap Mundy of Zydeco may have more info if I
remember correctly.

We had the exact same problems trying to figure out the water tanks and the
manifold layout. It was not as the book showed it, as you have mentioned.
The first fall, I used an air tank to push air thru each line while a second
person listened and confirmed the air at each tank. We then remarked the
book and made up a tag for the manifold. This is just sloppy workmanship to
me at Beneteau.

We also had problems with both Y valves as marked in the owner's manual.
After over flowing the mast head tank one morning (with the valve handle set
as the book suggested) and causing a mad rush around the boat to get that
taken care of. I smartly used the manual to check and change the setting of
the handle in the salon head, only to have that one do the same thing the
next weekend. The 2 Y valves were plumbed exactly opposite from each other
so the handle position from the manual did work in the salon head but after
finding the problem in the master head I reasoned (wrongly) that they were
both wrong.

I am really glad to hear that your dealer is there for you. Ours wasn't and
could care less once the boat was sold. We had lots of little problems like
you have described, but once we figured them all out, we haven't had any
troubles since. We love the boat as I am sure you will too.

Happy Sailing!!!

Rick Donovan
Biddeford, Maine
Beneteau 473 #29
Turn the Page

[mjb]

Quick update - I heard from the marina today that they pulled the boat,
"fixed" the drain hole in the transom "lip", used a heat lamp to dry
the repair quickly, and put the boat back in the water. From what I
understand, they "fixed" the hole in the swim platform locker while
commissioning the boat since they had problems with this before but had
not addressed the 2nd hole in the transom. They seemed confident this
was the problem. I'll go to the boat this weekend to check it out and
thoroughly clean the bilge.

The two replacement water meters are on order from Beneteau. I did
notice that the fore and aft water tanks had nice big gaskets under the
meters. The two midship integral tanks did not. I suspect that is
part of the problem and I expect them to add gaskets with the new
meters.

[mjb]

Quick update - the major water leak was the little hole in the lip of
the transom. The dealer has been fantastic - the yard is obviously
very busy and it's compounded by the problem that they can only pull
and launch boats with a draft of more than a few feet when the tide is
right. They pulled my boat this week, fixed the hole while the boat
was on the sling - tying up the sling for several hours.

I was at the boat yesterday and dried and cleaned the bilge. I used a
little ShopVac to vacuum the pools of water in the deep dark places,
e.g., there was two inches of water in the compartment under the
generator which is mounted in the starboard aft locker and several
"pools" of water underneath the engine, water heater, shaft, etc. I
was able to reach all of these areas using the pole of the vacuum from
the starboard and port quarterberth (after pulling up the matress and
surrounding boards). The little ShopVac holds 5 gallons and I estimate
I vacummed about 7 to 10 gallons from these areas combined. The water
collects in these areas but does not drain to the bilge unless these
areas overflow - and then the water flows through channels in the floor
grid system. In all normal conditions, water does not accumulate in
most of these places - just the bilge itself.

After drying, I mixed some bilge cleaner in a 5 gallon bucket (I used
the cleaner just recently recommended by Practical Sailor) and then
reached as many areas as possible with a sponge and then distributed
the remaining amount by just pouring. I then added another ~5 gallons
of fresh water to "rinse" various hoses and make sure the water
overflowed into various crevices and channels. I then dried everthing
again with the vacuum.

Does everybody think this was sufficient?

There is no water damage anywhere (there was never that much water).
There has never been any odor (in fact - I originally thought it was
all fresh water). The water in Long Island Sound this time of year is
about 45 degrees and very clean - but some of the water accumulated
while sitting in the marina at the dock. My cleaning and flushing
certainly did not "distribute" the water as far as it might have
traveled while we were sailing - but I'm confident it reached all the
places while the boat was sitting at dock and the water became more
stagnant.

My gut feel is that everything is much cleaner than before (considering
the amount of construction debris like screws, plastic straps, pieces
of wood, and other items that I collected during the cleaning) but I'm
also certain there is some "scum" along the "water line" in certain
areas where I couldn't reach but I think/hope that this will never
smell once everything thoroughly dries this week.

[Robert Lucchetti]

MJB: Sound as if you did a very complete job of removing the sea water and cleaning the effected area. I would suggets that you visit the boat often during the next week or so to open up the boat and to allow air to circulate to the area that got wet and washed. If you have access to shore power or have some 12v fans, would consider running them for an extended period to ensure you are dry. The biggest concern would be for mold/mildew to develop. Highly unlikely but a few hours with fans or air blowing through should minimize the risk.

 

Bob L

oc321/Latitudes/Chicago

mjb <MJBe...@gmail.com> wrote:

---

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[mark...@sprintmail.com]

I have a 2000, Oceanis 461. It is funny reading these emails because I
have had many of the same problems. The manual gives you hints as to
where things should/might be, but probably not. This gives you a great
opportunity to trace every water line, because someday one of them is
going to leak and you need to know where to check for the leaks.

You need to get a handle on the amount of water under your engine, this
is not normal. Every time you go out it needs to be dry so that you
are able to check later and see if there is water there that should not
be. This could be do to a leaking water pump bearing, hole in a hose.
You need to know if it is water, coolant fluid, or what.

Last, if you have a gen set, you might exeriment with offsetting the
weight of the generator with keeping your forward water tank full and
the water tank empty which is on the genset side.

-Mark Read
www.goreads.com