Beneteau 311 Tuning/Trim Guide

[mkd...@comcast.net]

I am looking for any information anyone has on tuning for the standing rigging of a B311 and sail trim guides.  I have the Neil Pryde guide but am looking for more information and direct experience with setting the proper tension on the standing rigging.

 

Thanks.

[Max Lynn]

Here's another source of information.  For direct experience, you will need a response from other 311 owners, and probably should describe your sail plan a little more. (i.e., furling main, furling jib, backstay adjuster, etc.).

 

http://www.hallspars.com/Resources/Articles/rigtune.htm

 

Max Lynn

[Chris C. Hunsicker]

I don't have any specific specs for tuning a 311 but from this wonderful forum I received a great tuning guide which I will look for and forward with feedback on how we have tuned our 2000   311.  I had great specs and feedback on our previous boat (Catalina 25) and started with those specs and found the rig a bit loose.  I also purchased a Loos gauge which I had previously felt to be a luxury but have really been happy with the results.  Just returned from 2  seperate week long trips on our 311, work, family and all else is calling for attention so may take a day or 2 to round up info and respond, but I promise I will ASAP.  Would love to discuss the 311 with you either through the forum or offline by eMail.  Where do you sail?  How long have you had your 311?

 

Thanks to all the help from this group.  After 15 days out of the last 20 out on our new to us 311, with NO! mechanical difficulties I must thank everyone for their help and input which enabled me to outfit our boat. 

 

Chris

B 311 S/V Alors

----- Original Message -----

From: mkd...@comcast.net

To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:00 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Beneteau 311 Tuning/Trim Guide

[mike]

I sail a 2003 Beneteau 311 on Chesapeake Bay and am always interested
in hearing the experiences of other B311 owners. I find my B311 to be a
rather sweet sailing boat. I have been told by several boat brokers
who, of course, sell other brands of boats that you cannot balance a
Beneteau. Well, on Memorial Day I sailed from the Chester River off
Love Point to the Magothy River. I set my course and my sails close
reaching in about 10kts apparent wind. For a distance of about 7 miles
and maybe an hour and half I didnt have to touch the helm nor did I
lock the helm. The boat tracked beautifully and I was able to go
forward and sit on the bow. I am very happy with the way my B311 sails.
Just wish it had a little more room down below.

Mike
s/v Carry On
Beneteau 311, Hull 126
Annapolis

[Chris C. Hunsicker]

Hi,

 

Here is all I can find for tuning the rig of a B  311.  A little bit of personal experiences thrown in.

 

I believe "Bill's rule of thumb" technique posted on this thread would be an excellent starting point to tune any sailboat rig.  When we first stepped the mast on our 311 which we had purchased used last November we used a similar technique as a starting point. Next I used the "Fractional rig, one set of swept spreaders, single aft lower shrouds, deck-stepped mast" guide offered by Selden.

http://www.seldenmast.com/download.cfm?download=7581&webnode_id=2099&filename=595-540-E.pdf

The only exceptions that I used the Loos gauge to set tension rather the Selden "folding rule method", and I could not stand to tighten the backstay or shrouds quite as tight as suggested.  Once this was done I loosened the backstay slightly as I felt the mast was bent too far aft. I now feel the rig is fairly correct.  We sail the northern Gulf Coast and Gulf of Mexico and can have strong winds at times so I want our rig set to point well in high wind.  

 

I have no idea whether our current rig tune is correct.  It is much tighter than I have tuned my past rigs but this is a bigger boat than my old Catalina 25 which also had 2 sets of lower shrouds.  Any input from other owners would be greatly appreciated.

 

Using my Loos gauge my rig currently reads:

3/16"  Backstay    640 lbs.  14% breaking pressure

1/4"    lower shrouds  720 lbs. 8 1/2% breaking pressure

1/4"    upper shrouds  840 lbs. 10 % breaking pressure

 

Since purchasing this boat and stepping the mast I have not changed the forestay length or tension.  Certainly the backstay tension will adjust forestay tension, but length of forestay will affect rake of the mast.  It is beyond me to make suggestions in this regard.  I am happy with the rake of my mast and forestay tension (weather helm etc) but I don't feel qualified to discuss this issue.  I have a furler on the forestay so I didn't mess with it.

 

I felt the tuning guide from US Spars had some useful info:

http://www.usspars.com/pdfs/rigging.pdf

 

also this was helpful:

http://www.sailingsource.com/neilpryde/pdf/311%20Tuning%20Guide.pdf

 

I only race on other people's boats so I am not qualified to talk about sail trim.

 

When we bought our boat I set out to find a "professional" rig tuner but all I found was reference to tuning a rig to be a personal preference as opposed to an exact science.  I guess that may be true, but it is always reassuring to get input from others to help us make our decisions.

 

Hope this helps.  I am happy to discuss further on or offline. We love our 311 and feel it sails well (better than we expected) and hope you are enjoying yours!

 

Chris

B 311 S/V Alors

 

----- Original Message -----

From: mkd...@comcast.net

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Beneteau 311 Tuning/Trim Guide

[Chris C. Hunsicker]

Hi Mike,

We have a 2000 B 311 hull #26. I really enjoy hearing any experiences from
other 311 owners as well as 323 owners. These 2 boats are quite similar it
seems. I don't really know what the differences are.

Our 311 is a swing keel, which is a must. The water at our dock is only a
foot deep at times and never over 4 1/2 ft deep. We are in Panama City FL
and sail the local bays and the northern gulf coast. Our range is now
greatly expanded as our previous boat was an older Catalina 25.

I agree these boats sail well. One our favorite trips is from Panama City
to Crooked Island. 26 miles one way. We just returned from a 5 day trip to
Crooked Island. On a beam reach with about 12 knot winds I hardly had to
touch the wheel for hours. We never even felt the need to drop the keel.

As we get to know this boat we are feeling a little more room would be nice
but I guess there are not many boat owners who would not feel this same way.

The only thing that is giving me any real anxiety is the stack pack and lazy
jacks. I love the lazy jacks and stack pack when dropping the main but I am
getting the battens caught in the lazy jacks on the way up. In over 10 knot
winds it seems very difficult to keep dead upwind enough to keep the sail
centered enough to clear the lazy jacks as we raise the main. Keeping
slight tension on the reefing lines helps a bit. If you have this set up do
you have any suggestions?

Happy to keep in contact on or off line. Hope you enjoy your 311 as much we
love ours.

Chris
B 311 # 26 S/V Alors

[Ivars]

Everyone is missing the point about rig tuning.    After positioning the mast/rig correctly ( from tuning guide),   the sails determine where the rig needs to be.   No amount of advance tension or any advance setting will matter if the sails do not "dovetail" or agree with that set up.    The tuning guides get the rig to a starting point from which one needs to adjust the rig to optimize the sail shape/ performance/balance.   Generally no two sails will be designed or cut alike.  The rig must be adjusted to  the sails,  that is why there are no definitive tuning guides.   No rigger or author of a guide can tune a boat without setting the sails and sailing the boat to make the final adjustments.

 

The Loos  gauges are a good tool in getting the rig to a starting point,   only then does  the tuning begin when the sails are checked under sail against the rig.   The Loos gauge helps in checking your work.  Also it makes it easier to get back to a good setting from a bad one or repeating settings for different sails or conditions.   Each time a new sail is introduced, the sail must be checked to verify that  the rig setting agrees with that sail.   As a sail ages the rig should be changed to meet the aged shape of the sail.   It's all about how the sail fits.  

 

Mast rake affects the helm or balance of the boat.  In most cases the top of the mast is either moved forward or aft.  This fore and aft movement changes the center of effort affecting the helm or balance of the boat.   Local conditions and sails will determine the final best setting.   Changing the size of the head sail will affect the helm.  Also as the sails age, the helm will change. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Chris C. Hunsicker

To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

Sent: 6/9/2006 5:15:17 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Beneteau 311 Tuning/Trim Guide

Hi,

 

Here is all I can find for tuning the rig of a B  311.  A little bit of personal experiences thrown in.

 

I believe "Bill's rule of thumb" technique posted on this thread would be an excellent starting point to tune any sailboat rig.  When we first stepped the mast on our 311 which we had purchased used last November we used a similar technique as a starting point. Next I used the "Fractional rig, one set of swept spreaders, single aft lower shrouds, deck-stepped mast" guide offered by Selden.

http://www.seldenmast.com/download.cfm?download=7581&webnode_id=2099&filename=595-540-E.pdf

The only exceptions that I used the Loos gauge to set tension rather the Selden "folding rule method", and I could not stand to tighten the backstay or shrouds quite as tight as suggested.  Once this was done I loosened the backstay slightly as I felt the mast was bent too far aft. I now feel the rig is fairly correct.  We sail the northern Gulf Coast and Gulf of Mexico and can have strong winds at times so I want our rig set to point well in high wind.  

 

I have no idea whether our current rig tune is correct.  It is much tighter than I have tuned my past rigs but this is a bigger boat than my old Catalina 25 which also had 2 sets of lower shrouds.  Any input from other owners would be greatly appreciated.

 

Using my Loos gauge my rig currently reads:

3/16"  Backstay    640 lbs.  14% breaking pressure

1/4"    lower shrouds  720 lbs. 8 1/2% breaking pressure

1/4"    upper shrouds  840 lbs. 10 % breaking pressure

 

Since purchasing this boat and stepping the mast I have not changed the forestay length or tension.  Certainly the backstay tension will adjust forestay tension, but length of forestay will affect rake of the mast.  It is beyond me to make suggestions in this regard.  I am happy with the rake of my mast and forestay tension (weather helm etc) but I don't feel qualified to discuss this issue.  I have a furler on the forestay so I didn't mess with it.

 

I felt the tuning guide from US Spars had some useful info:

http://www.usspars.com/pdfs/rigging.pdf

 

also this was helpful:

http://www.sailingsource.com/neilpryde/pdf/311%20Tuning%20Guide.pdf

 

I only race on other people's boats so I am not qualified to talk about sail trim.

 

When we bought our boat I set out to find a "professional" rig tuner but all I found was reference to tuning a rig to be a personal preference as opposed to an exact science.  I guess that may be true, but it is always reassuring to get input from others to help us make our decisions.

 

Hope this helps.  I am happy to discuss further on or offline. We love our 311 and feel it sails well (better than we expected) and hope you are enjoying yours!

 

Chris

B 311 S/V Alors

[rabeta...@bellsouth.net]

Chris,

We have had a bit of success when pointing our 2002 full-keel 311,
Incorrigible to wind and letting the main sheet out a few feet so that the
boom and stack-pack more readily align with the wind when it is slightly off
center.

Any other suggestions appreciated....

Roger
311 Incorrigible (#119)
Miami, FL

[Chris C. Hunsicker]

Roger,

Great idea. We will have to try that. Conventional wisdom says to head
dead to the wind. keep the sheet centered, but hard to achieve. I look
forward to trying your technique.

Thanks,
Chris
B 311 #26 S/V Alors

[Scott]

if your lazy jack lines are attached to the mast, add a little block on each side and add longer lines and a couple cleats on the mast so you can slack the lazy jacks if need be

[mkd...@comcast.net]

Chris:

 

Thanks for the very informative thoughts and information on tuning.  While I certainly recognize what everyone is saying regarding the need to fine tune the rig to the exact sails you are using and the rest of your localized variables, I still appreciate getting a sense for what others are using for starting points.  (I guess that I hoped it was understood that I and others knew a rig would still need to be fine tuned for the specifics of the sails and conditions.) 

 

I also used to race on J22s and J30s and enjoyed the vast amounts of materials available for tunning and trimming, all with specific and detailed base numbers and suggestions.  Of course, we always adjusted off these base numbers based on the current conditions and our experience with the boat.  Nonetheless, this experience with the J's just made the utter lack of any similar information for the Beneteaus very frustrating to me.  Your experience and suggestions (and, most important, references) were very much appreciated.

 

All that being said: I agree that the B311 sails very well and is a very responsive boat.  I, too, have enjoyed afternoons of true balance.

 

By the way, we experienced the same frustrations with the stack pack and battons when raising.  We found that leaving some play in the main sheet and bringing the main up between gusts, does generally help to avoid "tripping" on the lazy jacks. In the end, however, we still have had to keep an eye on the battons, and quickly raise the main when we see the sail is clear between the jacks.

 

Thanks again for all the great advice.

 

 Keith

SV/ Valfreyja  B311 #97

 

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Chris C. Hunsicker" <ch...@islandviewbuilders.com>

Hi,

 

Here is all I can find for tuning the rig of a B  311.  A little bit of personal experiences thrown in.

 

I believe "Bill's rule of thumb" technique posted on this thread would be an excellent starting point to tune any sailboat rig.  When we first stepped the mast on our 311 which we had purchased used last November we used a similar technique as a starting point. Next I used the "Fractional rig, one set of swept spreaders, single aft lower shrouds, deck-stepped mast" guide offered by Selden.

http://www.seldenmast.com/download.cfm?download=7581&webnode_id=2099&filename=595-540-E.pdf

The only exceptions that I used the Loos gauge to set tension rather the Selden "folding rule method", and I could not stand to tighten the backstay or shrouds quite as tight as suggested.  Once this was done I loosened the backstay slightly as I felt the mast was bent too far aft. I now feel the rig is fairly correct.  We sail the northern Gulf Coast and Gulf of Mexico and can have strong winds at times so I want our rig set to point well in high wind.  

 

I have no idea whether our current rig tune is correct.  It is much tighter than I have tuned my past rigs but this is a bigger boat than my old Catalina 25 which also had 2 sets of lower shrouds.  Any input from other owners would be greatly appreciated.

 

Using my Loos gauge my rig currently reads:

3/16"  Backstay    640 lbs.  14% breaking pressure

1/4"    lower shrouds  720 lbs. 8 1/2% breaking pressure

1/4"    upper shrouds  840 lbs. 10 % breaking pressure

 

Since purchasing this boat and stepping the mast I have not changed the forestay length or tension.  Certainly the backstay tension will adjust forestay tension, but length of forestay will affect rake of the mast.  It is beyond me to make suggestions in this regard.  I am happy with the rake of my mast and forestay tension (weather helm etc) but I don't feel qualified to discuss this issue.  I have a furler on the forestay so I didn't mess with it.

 

I felt the tuning guide from US Spars had some useful info:

http://www.usspars.com/pdfs/rigging.pdf

 

also this was helpful:

http://www.sailingsource.com/neilpryde/pdf/311%20Tuning%20Guide.pdf

 

I only race on other people's boats so I am not qualified to talk about sail trim.

 

When we bought our boat I set out to find a "professional" rig tuner but all I found was reference to tuning a rig to be a personal preference as opposed to an exact science.  I guess that may be true, but it is always reassuring to get input from others to help us make our decisions.

 

Hope this helps.  I am happy to discuss further on or offline. We love our 311 and feel it sails well (better than we expected) and hope you are enjoying yours!

 

Chris

B 311 S/V Alors