rust bubbles on keel

[Scott]

I know that this topic has been addressed, I asked last year, but am
wanting to get some more advice/opinions.

My 373 has iron keel, and there are little rust blisters/bubbles on
it. Last year I sanded down, then sprayed over those areas with
rustoleom, then put on bottom paint.

This year I have more blisters. I don't mind spot sanding, however, I
am wondering if I should be spot epoxying?

Each blister that is sanded of course is a layer or 3 of paint
thickness less than the area surrounding it. If I raced, this would be
a big deal. I could care less about this unless someone is going to
tell me that I am losing 1kt.

I read the post on re doing the keel with a whole epoxy coat, I gotta
believe doing this is going to be a 10+hr job, maybe a 20hr job.

Any comments on if I should do anything more than just sand and spray
with rustoleum? I know that somewhere down the line I will have to do
the whole keel. Thanks, Scott

[Capt Brian]

You can just spot treat the rust areas with the epoxy. I think your
bottom paint with copper is probably leaching through the rustoleum
and creating the problem. The epoxy coating will keep that from
happening. It's actually a very simple process and is easier than
painting.

Brian

[Bill Jarvis]

Scott,

If you want to treat the rust spotting on a spot basis then sand down, treat
with "Naval Jelly" It's a gel of orthophosphoric acid. It desolves any
remaining rust and passivate the iron surface making it less likely to rust
again. Then go ahead and spot treat with epoxy before bottom painting.

Bill

[Scott]

Thanks. Went to WM, and they have quite a few combos on the epoxy. Can
you tell me which one(s) to use, and do I need to add filler. It seems
you start with 105, then add a hardner205/206, fast/slow, and have to
add a filler. Or is there something else I should be looking at?

> the whole keel. Thanks, Scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Matt Lynch]

Yeah...what exactly are we supposed to use?  I've got a rust spot of disturbing size on mine. --- On Sat, 4/4/09, Scott <jbi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Bill Jarvis]

Matt,

 

105 is the epoxy resin 205 or 206 is the hardener (catalyst). Use the fast hardener if working in cold temperatures, down to about 50 degrees, or the slow hardener in warmer temps. Use no filler in the first coat. Thereafter if you have some fairing to do add filler after premixing the epoxy. There are several different fillers, colloidal silica is a good general purpose filler, there is a fairing filler which is great for the final fairing as it sands very easily and feathers out very well. There is also a microfiber filler that works very well when working with glass cloth and gives an exceptionally strong bond.

 

I use the calibrated pumps to dispense just the right amount of resin and hardener and would recommend that you do the same.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Bill

[mark....@gmail.com]

10-20H minimum

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott <jbi...@gmail.com>

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:29:30
To: Beneteau Owners<Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} rust bubbles on keel

[mark....@gmail.com]

What about interprotect2000E? That's an epoxy based barrier coat.

Group - will that work for Scott?

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott <jbi...@gmail.com>

Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 19:44:53
To: Beneteau Owners<Benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: rust bubbles on keel

[Scott]

Hmm, just noticed west alsready has a thickened epoxy.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/343516/377%20710%20969/712/epoxy/Primary%20Search/mode%20matchallpartial/0/WMPrice%7C1?N=377%20710%20969&Ne=712&Ntt=epoxy&Ntk=Primary%20Search&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nao=0&Ns=WMPrice|1&keyword=epoxy&isLTokenURL=true&storeNum=5000&subdeptNum=4&classNum=674

Any idea if this is would work as well as not having to mix.

[Bill Jarvis]

Mark,

InterProtect 2000E is indeed an epoxy thickened with something that makes it
go on in "plates"

If you are doing the whole keel I'd give it serious consideration but for
spot treatment I'd stick with regular epoxy. If you have product left over
you can use it in so many other places.

[Ivars]

Rust will start happening as soon as you quit cleaning....   treat rust as it happens...no exceptions....and soon as it is exposed...that incldes thinking about it....you waited too long...once the esposed surface is treated you can take you time with the rest.    Sounds anal, but really not... lots of good good choices to coat the exposed iron. Then go with what you think will work best, now you have time.

 

Matt,

 

if you are on the dry,  and you are going forward with the project.   Clean the rust, seal it,  then you can take a break on how to tackle the rest of the job.

---

From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lynch
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:28 AM
To: Benetea...@googlegroups.com

[Jim O'Neill]

Any of the 42cc guys ( Joe, Denny, etc) ---I’m getting ready to replace the original 140A batteries with 4Ds and in measuring the available space it looks very tight height wise on any of the popular flooded 4Ds. Has anyone replace the originals and if so was the height of the battery an issue, which manufacturer would you recommend.

 

Thanks,

Jim O’Neill

Southern Star 42cc

 

 

[Denny Wertheimer]

Jim,
breeze pleeze needs her power supply replaced as well, i  have no answwers just yet, I hope the the 4 d's will fit, if they don't they will have to be relocated.

--
Denny Wertheimer


314-330-5001

[neal...@mindspring.com]

If you go to beneteau235.com, you will find a helpful link on this

(smaller keel, same material and process)

Essentially you must grind every molecule of rust from keel, then
sand, clean, expoxy prime and eposy paint

I did mine about 7 years ago and have yet to see it return, mine was
about a medium job, I had to grind with a dremmel tool in a few spots
the size of my finger, the rest of the spots were just a sand job.

Also good to inspect and tighten the keel bolts from time to time

[pegasu...@aol.com]

Yes Jim, height was an issue,  the batteries were replaced by the dealer just prior to me acquiring the boat...
They replaced the 4Ds with lead acid batteries and they were about 1/4-3/8  inch too high..... so
What they did was rout out the underneath portion of the floor boards to accommadate the filler caps....
The Lifeline AGMs may have a lower profile and fit better...no need for filler caps..
Let me know what you do?
Joe/Dallas/42CC

---

The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!

[mark....@gmail.com]

Also with AGM's - you can mount them on their side if need be

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

---

From: pegasu...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:33:32 -0400
To: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: replacement batteries for a 42cc

[jim...@earthlink.net]

Thanks Joe, looks like Denny and I will have some work to do unless we can find a low profile battery.

Denny-- please keep me posted, I'll do the same.

Jim O'Neill

Southern Star 42cc

[Sail...@aol.com]

Jim.....I have the same problem on Vixen (45f5) with batteries under aft bunks.  I'm using an Excide 4DLT.  The terminal is on the top, but the battery is less than 8" in height.  It's about 22" long.   I'm building a new battery box out of luan and the West System.

 

 

Jeff


Jeffrey C. Taylor, Past Commodore 2006-2008
Club Beneteau Chesapeake Bay
1783 Forest Drive, Box#296
Annapolis, MD 21401
717-576-6622 cell phone

"Greatness Is Not In Where We Stand, But In What Direction We Are Moving.We Must Sail Sometimes With The Wind And Sometimes Against It---But Sail We Must, And Not Drift, Nor Lie At Anchor"

Oliver Wendell Holms

---

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[mark....@gmail.com]

I just installed four 220Ah 6v Lifeline GPL-4CT's on our 381. They are a tad over 10" tall with the bolts, they fit (just) under our aft bunk.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

---

From: Sail...@aol.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:22:21 EDT

To: <Benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: replacement batteries for a 42cc

[jim...@earthlink.net]

Jeff- thanks for the lead, I checked out the exide website and it look like the battery will fit, but they show the battery as a commerical starting battery not a deep cycle.  I assume you're using in a house battery bank without any problem.

Mark-- I'll also look at the lifelines, thanks

Jim O'Neill

Southern Star 42cc

[Sail...@aol.com]

Jim....I using the Exide 4DLT as my house battery (2) and I adding a third.    I use a Optima yellow as my starting battery for my Perkins Prima 60.   I installed a reversing switch that will allow the house to start if the starting battery is dead.  I also saw on the Optima Site that they are making a battery (blue) as the house pair.  They have used two batteries as a house bank in something they are retailing as a sealed battery.

 

 

Jeff

[Michael Roper]

All medicines bought to day

<BR

[Stephen Foley]

OK, I just dealt with MASSIVE amount of rust spot, pockets, etc. on my 1994 OC 400. I did not have time to completely follow Annapolis Yacht Sales' advice (Beneteau Dealer):

1. Grind/sand/chip all old paint and rust from Keel.
2. Apply 2 coats of "Petit Rustlock Primer". The can says not to worry about non-flaking rust.
3. 4 coats of Interlux 2000

I did most of #1 and all of #2 and will bottom paint it and put it in the Bay next week. And do it right next year. My marina said I REALLY need a professional Sand Blaster (after 5 hours of grind/sand/chip I agree, but we could not get one in time.

MY QUESTION: There is a LOT of exposed ruted areas,probably over 20% of the total keel area.

1. Could the keel have become "sacrificial" metal affected by electrolysis?
a. Do I need to ground/not ground the keel bolts?
b. Does anyone put a zinc on their Keel?
2. One of the emails in this thread mentioned the copper in the bottom paint being part of the problem? Could it have been that the original barrier coats are failing and the copper is accelerating the rusting? If so then following the above procedure to completely barrier coat is the way to go.

-----Original Message-----
From: Benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of neal...@mindspring.com
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 10:30 AM
To: Beneteau Owners
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: rust bubbles on keel

[Bill Jarvis]

Grounding the keel will provide a path for the electrolytic current. It
could well make the rusting worse! With what you have done I would seriously
consider just fairing the ruts and monitoring the situation in future years.

My neighbor has a Hunter 34 with an iron keel. Many years ago he added zincs
to both sides of the keel. He still gets rust although perhaps not as badly
as before.

Bill

[Stephen Foley]

Thanks for the quick reply Bill!

[neal...@mindspring.com]

If you go to Benerteau235.com you will find a link to good
instructions on keel refinishing - (same job, just larger keel for
your bigger Beneteau)

I did mine 8 years ago and it is still in good shape, but you need to
grind out all the rust if it is pitted, sand the rest, clean and use
two part expoxy filler (I used interlux - two cans come together in a
kit). Then epoxy primer and then your VC-17 or bottom paint of
choice.

Now this season I find a 2' length of seal where keel meets hull came
off - showing rust, so for this season I will do a quickly and apply
fast dry 3M5200 morning of launch. Next season I'll have to pull the
whole seal, grind and apply 3M5200 to the whole keel to hull joint.
It seems that there is always something .....

[Erik]

What did you guys use to grind? Sandpaper disk? Wire wheel?
Something else?

I'm looking at the same job tomorrow, can't wait ;-)

Cheers,
Erik

On Apr 24, 11:31 am, "neala...@mindspring.com"

[Sailor]

I use a product called Rust Bullet. It neutralizes the rust and
covers it. Then paint with bottom paint. Iron keel is 18 years old
and still looks good.
And, that's in Tilghman Island water.