Beneteau 373 Folding / Feathering Prop Question

[mystic-...@comcast.net]

Not looking to re-ignite a prop war.

Am interested in owner feedback of the effectiveness of folding / feathering props on a Beneteau 373.

Are they worth the money and if so, which do you recommend and why.

If it is more appropriate, contact me off-line at Mystic-...@comcast.net

Thanks much,

Joe

 

Mystic Traveler

Beneteau 373

Castle Harbor Marina, B-19

Kent Island, MD

[Shaken not Stirred]

Mystic:
I can't speak to other alternatives, but we have a three blade Max-
Prop on our Bene 352 which the PO installed. We have enjoyed it for
the last 3 seasons sailing out of Rock Hall. Minimal reverse prop
walk, good reverse efficiency, good forward efficiency, and adds about
1/2 knot or more to sailing speed. Maintenance is straightforward:
annual replace zinc, wire brush & coat with Pettit zinc spray and lube
with proprietary lube kit available from manufacturer. The only
drawback is it isn't cheap, but for us, the PO absorbed that cost.
Shaken

On Nov 10, 3:05 pm, mystic-trave...@comcast.net wrote:
> Not looking to re-ignite a prop war.
>
> Am interested in owner feedback of the effectiveness of folding / feathering props on a Beneteau 373.
>
> Are they worth the money and if so, which do you recommend and why.
>

> If it is more appropriate, contact me off-line at Mystic-Trave...@comcast.net

[William Arbaugh]

Joe,

We added a three blade max prop to our 373 over a year ago. It is difficult to say how much speed the new prop added, but my guess would be something around .25 to .5 kts. The big difference I notice is that I have much greater power and thus control in reverse.

Best, Bill

 

On Nov 10, 2010, at 3:05 PM, mystic-...@comcast.net wrote:

Not looking to re-ignite a prwar.

-- 
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners
contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question

[PaulM]

I researched the heck out the folding and feathering props. As an
engineer, I reviewed (and understood, mostly) a bunch of formal
studies by MIT and various labs in Europe. None agreed with each
other. The common theme though was all of them provide 90 % of the
drag of a fixed prop. I feel all of these provide significant
improvement under sail. I went with one I like, a 3 blade Gori. Seems
to have simple maintenance, like many others, and good performance
under power, like many others. Max prop is popular based upon price,
but others are touted by their owners. Just make sure it is the
correct number of blades, correct pitch, and correct diameter. Good
luck.

On Nov 10, 3:05 pm, mystic-trave...@comcast.net wrote:

> Not looking to re-ignite a prop war.
>
> Am interested in owner feedback of the effectiveness of folding / feathering props on a Beneteau 373.
>
> Are they worth the money and if so, which do you recommend and why.
>

> If it is more appropriate, contact me off-line at Mystic-Trave...@comcast.net

[David Mackintosh]

From a  fellow engineer I am assuming (always a dangerous thing to do) you did not mean to say what you actually wrote Paul.

When you wrote "The common theme though was all of them provide 90 % of the

drag of a fixed prop."

And meant to say a reduction in drag of 90% vis a vis a fixed prop.

Quite taken with the Kiwi prop myself - http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/

Though the geared Gori folding prop with the 'overdrive' is an interesting concept

regards

David

[PaulM]

Yes, eeenglish not so good. Actually, too late an evening. Thanks for
the correction.
Paul

On Nov 12, 3:10 am, David Mackintosh <sv.highland.fl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> From a  fellow engineer I am assuming (always a dangerous thing to do) you
> did not mean to say what you actually wrote Paul.
>

> When you wrote *"The common theme though was all of them provide 90 % of the
> drag of a fixed prop."*

>
> And meant to say a reduction in drag of 90% vis a vis a fixed prop.
>

> Quite taken with the Kiwi prop myself -http://www.kiwiprops.co.nz/

>
> Though the geared Gori folding prop with the 'overdrive' is an interesting
> concept
>
> regards
>
> David
>

> > contact denny.werthei...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net  if you have a
> > list management question- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jeffrey]

We have installed the AutoProp on our own 400 this year and last year
installed the same prop on a 411 model.. this was a great improvement on
sailing speed and greater power from the engine with less RMPs . the prop
delivers good reverse and controllable prop walk. Although this brand /
style was the most expensive I went for it...and glad we did.

Jeffrey Schwartz

--

Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link
http://groups.google.com/group/beneteau-owners/web/LIST+RULES?hl=en
To post to this group, send email to Benetea...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Beneteau-Owne...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Beneteau-Owners

contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a
list management question

[David Fletcher]

My late father always said, that is why they make vanilla and chocolate ice
cream. There is no correct reply to the prop "war" topic. In reality the
feathering lot are all good products. Each one has certain features and
benefits. I had a gori two blade folding on a CS 36 replaced it with an Auto
prop. The Auto was far superior in reverse and pushed the boat better, the
gori folded and off you sailed. On the Oceanis 400 we have installed a Kiwi
from day one, it is the only prop I know relative to this boat. It reverses
well, backs up straight, motors well and is very very price effective
relative to the big name propellers.

So at the end of the day, take it all in as good input, balance the budget
with your needs and ability and you will have made the best choice in the
end.

Like many things in life there is no simple answer, for under a big boat
buck ($1000) you can own a Kiwi, not sure the others have enough value to
justify the price in my humble view. However I like vanilla and you might
like chocolate!

Fletch

-----Original Message-----
From: benetea...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PaulM
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:43 AM
To: Beneteau Owners
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Beneteau 373 Folding / Feathering Prop
Question

contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a
list management question

[Kidd, James]

I had put a Gori on my previous boat, a B361 prior to launching it.....
On paper, it sounded great, with the "Overdrive" feature being able to change the pitch while motor-sailing to lower the RPMs and also to gain speed...
In reality, this is what I found:
1) Nearly every time you would put the boat in gear, it would be in 'overdrive' and you would have to go thru the procedure to get it in 'normal' ... even quick shifts into reverse would yield the wrong blade position (you are supposed to pause in neutral before shifting into reverse, to allow the blades to change position. Try that when coming into a dock with cross winds and current...)
2) I ran over and severed my dingy line (an old halyard) one crazy windy day, late in the season. I had a horrible vibration after that event that I feared was a bent prop shaft. I removed the prop later in the year, and put the original fixed 3 blade back on. Vibration was gone, and as it was the first time I ever had a fixed prop on the boat, the power I noticed from the three blade was so much that it felt like a much larger engine.

All in all...Gori is great on paper. Sucks in reality....

Ive had Max Props on two boats and never have had a problem.

-----Original Message-----
From: benetea...@googlegroups.com [mailto:benetea...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PaulM
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:43 AM
To: Beneteau Owners
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Beneteau 373 Folding / Feathering Prop Question

contact denny.we...@gmail.com, or ume...@comcast.net if you have a list management question

[Matt Lynch]

I had a Gori 3-blade folding/feathering prop and loved it.  Great power forward and reverse and the absolute minimum sailing speed pickup I would give it is .5kt, more like .75-1kt.  I lost a blade after about 5 years inexplicably.  Gori's only solution was to have me buy a new prop.  Apparently, the thing has to be shipped back to the Netherlands and by the time that's all done, we were so close to the price of a new prop it wasn't worth fixing the old one.   Now I have a Max prop and I notice no real difference in performance.  My friend had a max prop for 15 years and after that amount of time, the gears had become worn.  He contacted Max and for $150 the prop came back in like-new condition.  That is why I bought a Max instead of replacing it with another Gori.   Overall, any of the folding/feathering props are excellent and will really turn your sailing around.  They're expensive, but I think they are probably the best dollars I've spent on the boat (and I've spent a lot of dollars).  --- On Fri, 11/12/10, Kidd, James <jk...@kaydon.com> wrote:

[David Mackintosh]

Oops James do you know that is what i thought - good on paper but a PITA when you want some instant action - also the Bruntons Autoprop is a high maintenance device and needs to come back to the UK when things go wrong and they do.  Had MaxProps on all my boats until now (got a big three bladed fixed prop ATM) and the MaxProp can be a right PITA getting the pitch spot on but once you get that right they work fine.  I am about to experiment with a PSA using a nice small Car Alternator maybe even for Phase Two a PMA and once/if i get that working successfully Phase Three is a MaxProp - as you can force the MaxProp to stay open when you want the shaft to turn.  So i will get lots of battery chaging when i want/need it and lots less prop drag when i dont want regeneration. 

A bit like the Gori Overdrive and Bruntons Autoprop - sounds too good to be true but in this case it really is :-)

regards

David

[Kidd, James]

David,

Good luck on your testing!

 

On my first boat about 10 years ago (a Catalina 34) I tried 5 different props. Flex-o fold, Kiwi, 2 blade fixed, 3 blade fixed, and Max-Prop.

(I became an expert at changing the prop underwater. I guess it was a slow summer that year…).

Then on the B361 I had for 4 years, I had just the Gori then the three blade fixed.

 

Now on my 473 It’s the Max Prop replacing the fixed 3 blade that was on during sea trials….

 

Basic conclusion is the stopping power of the Max Prop is a huge improvement over 3 blade fixed, as well as lighter air sailing is improved (that of course is hard to measure…)….

But there is NO Downside to the Max Prop, unlike all of the others…..

 

Let us all know about your testing. It makes for great winter reading!

 

James

B 473

 

---

[ca...@aol.com]

A few days ago we hooked up with a lovely couple in Coquina Harbor who have a Jenneau with an Autoprop. We got chatting about the prop and it turns out they calculated approximately 25% fuel savings over the fixed prop. For sure, the sailing is better not having the 'bucket' down there holding you back, but I thought the efficiency aspect was interesting. Webb also noted the ability of the AP when motoring into head seas.

 

So, I calculated that the Autoprop cost us about $1,000 more than a Max Prop, and we have run 1,500 hours averaging about 1 GPH for about $4,500 bucks worth of diesel. Looks like we have done a bit better than break even at this point. But that's a lot of driving around in 9 years ... Actually, in the last 3 years we have put on about 600 hours in our annual migrations.

 

Suffice it to say, any feathering or folding prop will make a difference in sailing speeds. It would be tough to justify an Autoprop if you use your engine only a few dozen hours per year, so spend the bucks on a cool new spinnaker!

 

Ha ... Today we drove up from Georgetown, SC to Marion and toured the B factory. What a kick! Ward Richardson gave us the tour and we were highly impressed. We walked out of there thinking that B is a very smart company, and we are even more impressed with the strength of Zydeco after seeing how her sister ships are built.

 

PS ... They build Jenneau's there, too! Up to about 41'.

Cap in SC

[Edward Butt]

I have had a gori three blade for six years and it has worked well for us. The overdrive is an interesting feature which works particularly well at lower speeds. 

-- 

[Len's Mail]

Is that 10% improvement???

Tranquillity

----- Original Message -----

From: PaulM

To: Beneteau Owners

Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:53 PM

Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Re: Beneteau 373 Folding / Feathering Prop Question

[Scott]

Joe,

I have a 2005 373. I looked at this issue as well. I went with the
Kiwi feathering prop for the following reasons:
1. Added performance to weather, less weather helm, better waterflow
to rudder from prop
2. little bit better speed underway. not sure exactly what it is.

looked at all props. kiwi at the time was about 1k. everything else is
2-5k. don't have these extra $$ for what I do, but lusted after
autoprop.

Kiwi is plastic, I am at a mooring, no need for zincs either.

[ca...@aol.com]

You sure do need zinc!

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott <jbi...@gmail.com>
To: Beneteau Owners <benetea...@googlegroups.com>

Joe,

I have  a 2005 373. I looked at this issue as well. I went with the
Kiwi feathering prop for the following reasons:
1. Added performance to weather, less weather helm, better waterflow
to rudder from prop
2. little bit better speed underway. not sure exactly what it is.

looked at all props. kiwi at the time was about 1k. everything else is
2-5k. don't have these extra $$ for what I do, but lusted after
autoprop.

Kiwi is plastic, I am at a mooring, no need for zincs either.

-- 
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link

[ca...@aol.com]

Durn ... It autosent.

To resume, you do need a zinc unless you changed your prop shaft to plastic. We had to replace our shaft due to galvanic action because our standard Autoprop zincs would fall off after a few weeks or months. We don't have enough space on the shaft to fit a standard doughnut zinc and have to rely on the prop zinc. For that reason we have a fixture that bolts to the back of the prop and holds a 'B' size conical zinc. They are bigger and last longer.

Cap in SC

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott <jbi...@gmail.com>
To: Beneteau Owners <benetea...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 14, 2010 7:19 pm

Joe,

I have  a 2005 373. I looked at this issue as well. I went with the
Kiwi feathering prop for the following reasons:
1. Added performance to weather, less weather helm, better waterflow
to rudder from prop
2. little bit better speed underway. not sure exactly what it is.

looked at all props. kiwi at the time was about 1k. everything else is
2-5k. don't have these extra $$ for what I do, but lusted after
autoprop.

Kiwi is plastic, I am at a mooring, no need for zincs either.

-- 
Largest Beneteau group, over **900** members and growing.
Read these list rules in the groups pages, cut and paste this link

[Paul Streicher]

The concern on my 2005 373 is to diminish or avoid the substantial prop walk I experience with the 3 blade fixed prop. Any comments or suggestions on the effect of a folding / feathering prop on prop walk, especially from other 373 owners?

Paul