Lifeline AGM batteries usable life

[Dan Barac]

Group,

In July 1997 I had commissioned three Lifeline AGM 4D batteries (GPL-4DL) giving the total of 630 Ah in the house bank.

For seven years those batteries gave exceptional service, but earlier this year, in their 8^th year of service, they decided to give up. This manifested itself as progressively reduced capacity. Once it started, it went downhill quite quickly. In the end, I was faced with running a cruising boat with something that I estimated to be no more than a 60 Ah bank. Once the discharge reached around 35 Ah, the voltage would drop to 11.4 V. I disconnected the batteries one by one and tested them individually with an accurate voltmeter and they were all exhibiting the same symptoms. We eventually limped back into a marina, where I had to organise a new set of Lifeline AGM batteries to be delivered at great expense.

All their life, the batteries were on solar power and never left discharged for any amount of time. My battery monitor shows the deepest discharge of about 250 Ah and the number of cycles below 90% as 235. In my opinion this shows that the batteries had a very easy life.

Looking at the Lifeline graph showing the life expectancy of these batteries, I would have thought that I should get more like 3,000 cycles out of the batteries. On the other hand, everybody tells me that getting seven good years out of a set of batteries is exceptionally good and that I should not complain.

What is your experience with Lifeline AGM batteries?

The other thing that got me perplexed is the physical size of batteries in general. When I originally installed the batteries back in 1997, I had new battery boxes built out of marine plywood around the dimensions of Lifeline GPL-4D batteries. I believed that size “4D” was somehow a standard size, so any “4D” battery should fit my battery boxes. Just recently, before I ordered a new set of Lifeline batteries, I tried to find some other brand (locally available in SE Asia) that I could fit into the battery boxes to get me out of immediate trouble. To my surprise and disappointment, after browsing through countless brochures and catalogues (including the West Marine), the only batteries that would fit were the Lifelines.

In your experience, is the “4D” or “8D” a designation of size or capacity?

Thanks,
Dan

[or or]

I have a poor record because my Balmar charger controller failed and the batteries were over charged for many hundreds of hours. No solar, just inverter and generator. In spite of that we were able to use them full time for 5 years, after which, and prior to selling Zydeco, the 3 4Ds and 1 Group 27 were replaced with flooded cell batteries. Our first set of flooded cells lasted 8 years. They were cheap and came with the boat. 

Cap Munday

S/V Zydeco

Beneteau 473

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[Rick Donovan]

take a look here   http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.php

from the Lifeline battery manual on line

NOTES:
1. Use midpoint values for most applications. Lower voltages may be suitable for light-duty applications and higher voltages may be suitable for heavy duty applications. 
2. For 24 Volt Systems, multiply 12 Volt setting by 2. 
3. Charge voltage should be adjusted if battery temperature varies by more than 10°F from 77°F. Consult website for further guidance (www.lifelinebatteries.com). 

Conditioning/Equalizing Charge: 15.5 volts for 8 hours 
Conditioning/equalizing should only be done when the battery is showing symptoms of capacity loss. If conditioning/equalizing is necessary, first go through the normal charge cycle. Once the battery is as fully charged as possible, start the conditioning/equalizing charge. 

For maximum battery life, a battery must be recharged to 100% capacity. Recharging to less than 100% may result in premature battery failure. Lifeline batteries are not covered under warranty if they are not recharged properly. For more information, please refer to our warranty policy. 

many people believe that AGM batteries can be damaged by equalizing, but I spoke with a tech at their tech helpline several years ago and they recommended this procedure to be done when the capacity dropped which is exactly what you seem to be describing. many inverters have a button sequence that will do this equalizing automatically for you. I did this several times over the 7 years we had the same battery on our 473. have a look at the owners manual for your inverter to see if it is capable. 

Lifeline Batteries Inc;
New Address: 
292 E Arrow Highway, San Dimas, CA 91773 
P: 909-599-7816 | F: 909-599-0596

RickD

On May 26, 2015, at 9:50 PM, Dan Barac wrote:

Group,

[Mark Melvin]

Agreed, run an equalization process with the charger, to "shake off" the accumulation on the plates. It really is needed periodically, even with AGMs (long owner of Lifelines in my 461 and 54).
 
No risk of damaging batteries if you were planning replacement anyway.
 
Check your charger manual's value for equalization, and call Lifeline. If still scared, do equailization in "gel cell" mode if your charger offers that, Gels are much more delicate than Lifeline robust AGMs.

 Mark Melvin
devocean, Oceanis 54

---

From: rdono...@maine.rr.com
Subject: Re: {Beneteau Owners} Lifeline AGM batteries usable life
Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 16:19:18 -0400
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com

[dbg...@mindspring.com]

noticed that one item was omitted from the AGM  battery discussion...  "Charge Voltage"  and the batteries were charged by solar cell....

It has been acknowledged that AGM batteries are sensitive to the charge voltage being within  spec during the charging process... failing that,  AGM batteries will not charge to 100% of rated capacity and result in reduced service life by never being "fully charged"...   it is up to the charging system to maintain charge voltage within spec of the demanded charge profile along with a proper voltage regular compatible with AGM charging profiles...  I would quesion the solar charger of being able to deliver the correct voltage at the required profile...  as well as the voltage regulator...  a solar charger is limited by the hours it can deliver the desired volage,  making it more difficult to restore the optimum required charge to attain 100%... it is the time the AGM batteries are at less than 100% and continually used at less than optimum levels that may the be cause of premature failure.    It is well documented that AGM batteries maintained at less than opimum charge levels results results in shorter service life...   AGM battery technology allows for demanding use, but also demands prompt restoration to optimum levels

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Barac
Sent: May 26, 2015 9:50 PM
To: benetea...@googlegroups.com
Subject: {Beneteau Owners} Lifeline AGM batteries usable life

Group,

In July 1997 I had commissioned three Lifeline AGM 4D batteries (GPL-4DL) giving the total of 630 Ah in the house bank.

For seven years those batteries gave exceptional service, but earlier this year, in their 8^th year of service, they decided to give up. This manifested itself as progressively reduced capacity. Once it started, it went downhill quite quickly. In the end, I was faced with running a cruising boat with something that I estimated to be no more than a 60 Ah bank. Once the discharge reached around 35 Ah, the voltage would drop to 11.4 V. I disconnected the batteries one by one and tested them individually with an accurate voltmeter and they were all exhibiting the same symptoms. We eventually limped back into a marina, where I had to organise a new set of Lifeline AGM batteries to be delivered at great expense.

All their life, the batteries were on solar power and never left discharged for any amount of time. My battery monitor shows the deepest discharge of about 250 Ah and the number of cycles below 90% as 235. In my opinion this shows that the batteries had a very easy life.

Looking at the Lifeline graph showing the life expectancy of these batteries, I would have thought that I should get more like 3,000 cycles out of the batteries. On the other hand, everybody tells me that getting seven good years out of a set of batteries is exceptionally good and that I should not complain.

What is your experience with Lifeline AGM batteries?

The other thing that got me perplexed is the physical size of batteries in general. When I originally installed the batteries back in 1997, I had new battery boxes built out of marine plywood around the dimensions of Lifeline GPL-4D batteries. I believed that size “4D” was somehow a standard size, so any “4D” battery should fit my battery boxes. Just recently, before I ordered a new set of Lifeline batteries, I tried to find some other brand (locally available in SE Asia) that I could fit into the battery boxes to get me out of immediate trouble. To my surprise and disappointment, after browsing through countless brochures and catalogues (including the West Marine), the only batteries that would fit were the Lifelines.

In your experience, is the “4D” or “8D” a designation of size or capacity?

Thanks,
Dan

--

[Captain Guy]

4d or 8d is size AH depends on quality/construction/purpose like deep cycle or crankig

 

I have used Interstate wet cells 4 d for the 16 years I’ve owned Island Time and get 5+ years... I rarely run them way down, but on some over night races may het way down and need to use starting batter to crank... have spemt weeks in bahamas with no issues... have wind gen and Honda 2000i for back up wna have never had to crank it up.

 

Guy

352#277

[Dan Barac]

I’ve just realised that in my original post I mentioned year 1997 as the commissioning year for the batteries. My apologies, it was meant to be 2007 and that’s where the 7-8 year battery life came from. I guess I should read my posts more carefully before I hit the send button.

 

I understand the concern about the charging voltage…

 

I have programmed my solar controller for 14.4 V bulk and 14.2 V absorption, the float is on 13.3 V. I have a Xantrex 50A shore charger, which is set to the “AGM” setting. The alternator is driven by Balmar external regulator MC-614, which is also set to “AGM”. All three charging sources are temperature compensated. My battery monitor Link 2000 confirms the charging voltages that I would expect. So it probably isn’t about the charging process.

 

Equalisation is something that I have not tried, because I have read somewhere that AGM batteries must not be equalised. Now it appears that this is not correct. My shore charger does have the equalisation function, but I believe it is disabled if you choose AGM as the battery type. I guess I could change the type to ‘flooded’ and try to see what happens. On the other hand, since my new set of Lifelines has already arrived (but not installed yet), the issue has become academical and I wonder if I should risk an accident of some sort. If something did go wrong, I don’t believe the insurance company would show much understanding for my experiments.

 

A more realistic question is whether or not I should periodically equalise my new set of batteries? If so, how often?

 

Lifeline (Concorde) batteries are advertised as “the best deep cycle batteries in the world” and their price tag reflects that, so I guess I just wondered if what I got out of them is reasonable and if the others had similar experience.

 

Thanks and best regards,
Dan

[Dan Barac]

Cap,

 

I also have a Balmar regulator. Could you please share your experience, so that I do not make the same mistake? How did your Balmar regulator contribute to the demise of your batteries? Misconfiguration or just a failure?

 

Thanks,
Dan

[Joker460]

You guys need to get the May issue of Practical Sailor. Local library may have it.

In depth discussion of AGM Batteries including your Lifeline Manf..

It's a good read.