'Na'aseh v'Nishmah'... after we've Nishma'd
Daniel Levy
Why is the whole of Perek 24 put in the wrong place? Why isn’t the whole story about Matan Torah all put together?
This is especially problematic because by placing the 53 commandments of Mishpotim before reporting the famous ‘Naaseh v’Nishmah’, (not to mention the 10 Hadibros and following mitzvos) doesn’t it undermine the fact that they were makdim ‘na’aseh’ (doing mitzvos) to nishmah (learning what they are… which they did in Mishpotim!) ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hassans - International Law Firm
57/63 Line Wall Road
PO Box 199
Gibraltar
Tel: +350 200 79000
Fax: +350 200 77343
Web: http://www.gibraltarlaw.com
P Before printing, think about the environment
-------------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephoning the number shown above. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose its contents to any other person. It is also recommended that any attachments in this message be scanned prior to opening, as we cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Levy
Why is the entire Chapter 24 put in the wrong place? Why isn’t the whole story about Matan Torah put together?
This is especially problematic because by placing 53 commandments of Mishpotim (not to mention the 10 Hadibros and following mitzvos) before reporting the famous ‘Naaseh v’Nishmah’, doesn’t it undermine the fact that they were makdim ‘na’aseh’ (doing mitzvos) before nishmah (learning what they are… which they did in Mishpotim!) ?
rafi
Sent from my iPhone
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "beisparsha" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beisparsha+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to beisp...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Daniel Levy
So how does the Ramban explain the Gemoro in Shabbes 88a that I referred to below:
אמר רבי אלעזר בשעה שהקדימו ישראל נעשה לנשמע יצתה בת קול ואמרה להן מי גילה לבני רז זה שמלאכי השרת משתמשין בו דכתיב ברכו ה' מלאכיו גבורי כח עושי דברו לשמוע בקול דברו ברישא עושי והדר לשמוע
Clearly this (and other similar Gemoros on the Daf) mean that the BNY declared “נעשה ונשמע” before they heard the mitzvos?
לדוכתא קושיא הדרא
Ganz, Rafi (UK - London)
2. In this case, I don’t see the question – on the grand scheme of things they had still heard very little. It’s like getting married after only a couple of dates – that’s still naaseh ve’nishma.
Rafi Ganz
Deloitte LLP
Tel/Direct: +44 20 7303 4832
www.deloitte.co.uk
From: beisp...@googlegroups.com [mailto:beisp...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Daniel Levy
Sent: 11 February 2015 09:59
To: beisp...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: 'Na'aseh v'Nishmah'... after we've Nishma'd
So how does the Ramban explain the Gemoro in Shabbes 88a that I referred to below:
אמר רבי אלעזר בשעה שהקדימו ישראל נעשה לנשמע יצתה בת קול ואמרה להן מי גילה לבני רז זה שמלאכי השרת משתמשין בו דכתיב ברכו ה' מלאכיו גבורי כח עושי דברו לשמוע בקול דברו ברישא עושי והדר לשמוע
Clearly this (and other similar Gemoros on the Daf) mean that the BNY declared “נעשה ונשמע” before they heard the mitzvos?
לדוכתא קושיא הדרא
IMPORTANT NOTICE
This communication is from Deloitte LLP, a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC303675. Its registered office is 2, New Street Square, London EC4A 3BZ, United Kingdom. Deloitte LLP is the United Kingdom member firm of Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited (“DTTL”), a UK private company limited by guarantee, whose member firms are legally separate and independent entities. Please see www.deloitte.co.uk/about for a detailed description of the legal structure of DTTL and its member firms.
This communication contains information which is confidential and may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please (1) notify it.secu...@deloitte.co.uk by forwarding this email and delete all copies from your system and (2) note that disclosure, distribution, copying or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. Email communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free from error or viruses. All emails sent to or from a Deloitte UK email account are securely archived and stored by an external supplier within the European Union.
To the extent permitted by law, Deloitte LLP does not accept any liability for use of or reliance on the contents of this email by any person save by the intended recipient(s) to the extent agreed in a Deloitte LLP engagement contract.
Opinions, conclusions and other information in this email which have not been delivered by way of the business of Deloitte LLP are neither given nor endorsed by it.
Daniel Levy
Re 2. – I disagree with your mashal on two counts:
(1) The 10 makkos, krias yam suf (ro’osoh shifchoh al hayom…) and matan Torah could barely be called ‘a couple of dates’. (Agav, it was after “Shono Rishona” if anything!) BNY knew G-d well. But that’s ok; that’s the point of the Gemoros. After all this, we knew HaShem well enough to be able to say “whatever HaShem demands of us we will be capable of” (see רבא below).
(2) Your main point is that they had heard ‘very little’ relative to what they could have asked for. But that’s not what the Gemoros are saying. They’re all saying that they had heard nothing – מה תפוח זה פריו קודם לעליו, עמא פזיזא דקדמיתו פומייכו לאודנייכו, איבעי' לכו למשמע, – and they still said ‘yes’. Any mitzvah at all would undermine this, much less the entire Aseres Hadibros and Parshas Mishpotim. Not to mention that the entire Taryag is included somehow in the 10 Dibros! It’s not a relative thing: they were either makdim ‘na’aseh’ (doing) to ‘nishmah’ (hearing what to do) or they weren’t.
א"ר חמא ברבי חנינא מ"ד כתפוח בעצי היער וגו' למה נמשלו ישראל לתפוח לומר לך מה תפוח זה פריו קודם לעליו אף ישראל הקדימו נעשה לנשמע
ההוא צדוקי דחזייה לרבא...
א"ל עמא פזיזא דקדמיתו פומייכו לאודנייכו אכתי בפחזותייכו קיימיתו ברישא איבעי' לכו למשמע אי מציתו קבליתו ואי לא לא קבליתו
א"ל אנן דסגינן דסגינן בשלימותא כתיב בן תומת ישרים תנחם הנך אינשי דסגן בעלילותא כתיב בהו וסלף בוגדים ישדם: