Yaakov = Mincha?

[Daniel Levy]

Brochos (26b below) says Yaakov instituted Maariv & brings this possuk. Rashi on the possuk itself notes that “he lodged there” and “because the sun had come” are the wrong way around. Reason: sun suddenly set, unexpectedly (see Rashi below). Yaakov’s tefillah was before this (וַיִּפְגַּע בַּמָּקוֹם is at start of possuk).

Recap of order:

·         Davens “Maariv”

·         Sun starts to set quickly & unexpectedly so-

·         Gets ready for the night

Question: how can Yaakov daven Maariv before the sun had set? Zman tefillah b’dieved seems a strange place for Gm’ Brochos to learn the zmanei tefillah! (We actually have a word for davening in late afternoon before sunset. It’s called “Mincha”.)

 

Sources:

יעקב תקן תפלת ערבית שנאמר ויפגע במקום וילן שם

יא. וַיִּפְגַּע בַּמָּקוֹם וַיָּלֶן שָׁם כִּי בָא הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ וַיִּקַּח מֵאַבְנֵי הַמָּקוֹם וַיָּשֶׂם מְרַאֲשֹׁתָיו וַיִּשְׁכַּב בַּמָּקוֹם הַהוּא:

כי בא השמש: היה לו לכתוב ויבא השמש וילן שם. כי בא השמש, משמע ששקעה לו חמה פתאום שלא בעונתה כדי שילין שם:

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[Maurice Salama]

Doniel thanks for your question. See below text which may help: 

Chazal tell us that when Yaakov Avinu stopped on his way to Charan, he davened an “extra” tefilah and thereby established Maariv as the third tefilah of the day. (Although regarding most matters, halacha considers nightfall the beginning of a new day, Maariv is slightly different since its institution was also intended to serve in place of the burning of the fats and limbs of the korbanos offered throughout the daytime.) The Daas Zekeinim writes that Yaakov Avinu davened Maariv before nightfall. He proves this from the fact that the Torah first reports that he davened (va’yifga ba’makom) and then it says that he slept there for the sun had set. However, upon careful examination of the trop (cantillation notes) it seems as though “ki vah ha’shemesh” is the reason why Yaakov davened. (See Sefer Vayavinu ba’Mikrah by R’ N. Z. Y. Gettinger who understands it this way.) If so, it would seem that Yaakov only davened Maariv after nightfall, and not before.

Taken from the second page of this for the full article: 

http://ahavasyehonoson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/VAYEITZEI-5773-EARLY-MAARIV.pdf

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From: danie...@hassans.gi
To: beisp...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Yaakov = Mincha?
Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:09:10 +0000

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[Yehuda]

The חתם סופר in תורת משה explains, based on מגן אברהם או"ח רס"ז סק"א that it was Erev Shabbos and Yakov davened early because אברים ופדרים של ע"ש אינם קריבים בשבת.

Here's the link: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=21622&st=&pgnum=44

Yehuda

--- Original Message ---

[Daniel Levy]

Thanks Yehuda. I had a quick look at the Chasam Sofer. This seems to create more problems!

1.       You can’t offer fats of Friday on Shabbos, ok. Why does that mean you can’t daven Maariv for Fri night after nacht? We do! (Is that a tashlumin comment? Why is that relevant here?)

2.       These mekoros (your chasam sofer and Maurice’s Daas Zekeinim) confirm that Yaakov davened before nightfall, which strengthens my question: how can we learn institution of davening Maariv time from an episode where someone did not daven at maariv time?

3.       If it was “Shabbos”, this throws up many more problems: how could Yaakov arrange the stones, move the stone in the morning, anoint it with oil (where’d he get it from, by the way? Made it?), then continue his journey in the day – carrying, walking chutz l’techum… (Apologies for getting involved in the “Did the Ovos keep Torah?” question, but to the extent that “it was Shabbos”, as Chasam Sofer understands, and hilchos korbonos & their zmanim were in effect, the rest of Shabbos must also have been chal).

[Daniel Westbrook]

It indeed seems far off to say that it was Shabbos, I think that a little clarification of the halochos of zman maariv is all that is required here.

The tanaim disagree regarding when the zman of mincha ends and maariv starts- according to the Chachomim it is from nightfall (probably shkia, but I don't need to get into this here), R' Yehuda holds it is from plag (ie before night).

The gemoro (Berochos 27a) brings contradictory psakim and concludes that one may follow either shita (lechatchila according to the rishonim, although the Aruch Hashulchan questions this).

The Rosh says that one must choose one shita and stick to it at all times, but the Rambam (Tefila 3:4, 7) does not say any such requirement.  The Shulchan Aruch (O.C. 233:1) paskens like the Rosh lechatchila, and therefore since the minhag is to daven mincha until night one should not daven ma'ariv before then.  Bedieved one is יוצא even early (based on תלמידי רבינו יונה).  This is the bedieved that Doniel mentions, but in the times of Yaakov Avinu there was no bedieved time!

It could well be that the Tanaim themselves argued whether Yakov davened before night (like Rashi and the Daas Zekenim), or afterwards (like the trop).

[yaacov Goldstein]

On 26 Nov 2014 19:35, "yaacov Goldstein" <yaac...@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently learnt the sugya and came across a yalkut shemoni (I think) that says the he must have davened a lot earlier as he intended to go back that day (only Hashem made the Sun set earlier).
He therefore must have davened as second time which would have been maariv.
To be fair not sure if this actually answers the question but hopefully an interesting insight on the sugya