How to improve cel phone service quality near Tilden?

[Lisa B WREL427]

Dear BeCertainn members,

I live off Grizzly Peak Blvd, near Tilden Park, sometimes known as the "wildland urban interface". I have Verizon cel service, which is spotty to unusable along Grizzly Peak from Kensington to Shasta Rd. The north end of Tilden Park has no Verizon service.

I see this as a safety issue with immediate impact up here near the park and potential impact for other parts of the city. 

If I'm in Tilden and I see a fire - I can't call it in. 

I have written to Councilmember Wengraf twice and got no response.

I raise this with the group because:

•  I'm seeking advice on how to raise this issue and who to raise it with to get an improvement in cel phone service up here next to the wildland.

• I'd like to hear some field reports from other folks: how's your cel phone service?

Thank you all.

-- Lisa B.

[becertainn]

Lisa:

Besides the value of robust communication for public safety (e.g. quick connection to 911 when someone is injured or a fire starts) there is a broader safety issue with poor signal and cell phone use. There is a nice summary here with links to the research https://www.wthr.com/article/news/investigations/13-investigates/13-investigates-poor-cell-phone-reception-could-increase-your-radiation-exposure-10000x/531-a468c7d8-8949-4a2a-a546-fc167672ca95

The fundamental issue is that everyone is exposed more to their phone when the singing to tower drops below a threshold level. It is actually the opposite of how the “safety” issue if generally framed.

Geoff

[Mark Gilligan]

I assume that you do not find a land line acceptable.

You can appeal to Verizon but that may not be productive.

You might want to talk with the California Public Utility Commission but again that may not be productive.

Local City governments have no authority to force improved service.

If you had a phone that connected directly to satellite services that might be your best option.

Mark Gilligan

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[Doug Mosher]

Good info all, thank you.

I live on the ridge of the Oakland Hills (Skyline Blvd near Chabot/NASA Space and Science Center) and there are "small cellular antennas" mounted on telephone/power poles along Skyline in our area. I'm on Verizon and get nearly full bars (4G). We have AT&T fiber for IP phones and also still retain an old POTS/copper line from AT&T that has stayed up during power outages of a few days.

Our OCP&R Guide on Emergency Communications may have some helpful tips for you: https://oaklandcpandr.org/wp-content/uploads/OCPR-Guide-22-Emergency-Communications.pdf

And our emergency Backup Power Guide as power is needed for IP devices, charging radios, etc: https://oaklandcpandr.org/wp-content/uploads/OCPR-Guide-20-Backup-Power.pdf

Sat phone and possibly even Starlink could be useful to consider. I just checked Starlink for my address and it noted "Starlink is currently at capacity in your area, so your order may not be fulfilled until 2023 or later." Ok.

Related is the issue of cellular backup power requirements: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/california-requires-landline-operators-to-have-72-hours-of-back-up-power-fo/?sba=AAS

And: https://www.sfchronicle.com/california-wildfires/article/Why-cell-phones-failed-in-PG-E-outages-and-how-14806460.php

We/Montclair Neighborhood Council had started a Cell Phone Reliability Project last year and were reaching out to the CPUC, but the project stalled. This is a good reminder to try to restart it.

-Doug
WQOY819 / KI6DOG

www.genoak.org

---------------------------------------------
 Doug Mosher
 OCP&R Program Manager
 Oakland Firesafe Council
 510.575.0916
 www.oaklandcpandr.org

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/becertainn/337075702.1002042.1652216838183%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Mark Gilligan]

Many "landline phones" have a router installed between your phone and the phone service.  These routers are typically powered by grid power so if the grid is down you have no phone service.

These routers need 12VDC power so if you can provide the router with 12VCD you will continue to have phone service and internet if you get internet from the phone company.  You could also provide the power supply for the router with 120VAC

Mark Gilligan

[Lisa Brenneis Gmail]

Thanks to you all for your helpful responses.

It's possible that local opposition to adding cel phone transmitters has contributed to the dearth of signal up here.
There are so many UC students and staff living up here now in short-term arrangements; I'm sure most of them are entirely cellular/IP- based. Residency patterns have changed a lot just in the last 10 years.
When I consider the general ( and reasonable) level of concern for wildfire safety here, improving cel phone service in the wildland border seems like a good investment.

Mark, thank you for your response; I'm more concerned about the neighborhood's safety than my personal setup.
I have a POTS line, plus a femtocell, so my cel phone reception is solid here as long as the internet holds up. :-)

Doug, thanks for providing that wealth of information - do let me know if you revive your Cellphone Reliability Project, and if I can help.

Geoff, thank you for sending that piece on the possible health effects of living with poor cel phone reception.
When you think about it, it does make sense.

Any other field reports on cel phone service up here?

-- Lisa B

[Michael Gold]

I don't know if any of this will work but here goes.

Most of the items I'll mention are somewhat costly but there are some locations where people use low-cost "passive repeaters" (that's what people call it though they are not repeaters - they are reflectors). For personal use, they are mainly for when service is acceptable outdoors but not indoors or in a vehicle. They extend coverage just enough to make something usable.  I have never used one personally but they are somewhat common for cars and also within commercial wireless networks (perhaps sometimes we use them without knowing). I've been researching passive repeaters for a different purpose  because it would solve a bunch of problems if a reflector can get GMRS over Albany Hill, so I have more info on the topic, and if you want to explore passive repeaters more, feel free to contact me separately.

Cheap passive repeater for cars - again, this is if service is OK outdoors but not in the cabin

https://cellphonesignalbooster.us/cell-phone-passive-signal-booster-repeater-antenna/

For homes, I don't know of a packaged product to buy but there's always DIY

https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/cell-phone-passive-repeater.172380/page-3 No instructions but see the final message in the thread titled "Just try it"

Costly software for network engineering including computer-aided design of passive repeaters

https://www.pathloss.com/#!purchase

For both vehicles and homes, there are a number of active signal-booster products. If it were me, I would stick with a brand name such as Wilson though their gear can be costly. To ensure that it actually works, I would be considering a professional installation, also costly. Presumably a pro will know whether it would actually work where you need it.

https://www.wilsonsignalbooster.com/vehicle-cell-phone-signal-boosters/cars-trucks.html

https://www.wilsonsignalbooster.com/cell-phone-boosters-for-home.html

It seems that a user with a booster needs to register the booster with their service provider.

https://www.verizon.com/solutions-and-services/accessories/register-signal-booster/

At home, I have used a "femtocell" type device similar to this one that Verizon sells, though this type will not work if your Internet service is interrupted.

https://www.verizon.com/products/verizon-lte-network-extender/

In addition to paying for the gadget, I also had to pay Sprint $5/month for the privilege of using it. Though Sprint told me that people didn't have to pay the monthly fees in some areas with particularly bad coverage problems.

Regards

-MG

AJ6RZ & WRJB283

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022 at 12:26:41 PM UTC-7 Lisa B WREL427 wrote: