Commercial use of BeagleBone

[David Goodenough]

I know that BeagleBoards are not supposed to be used in commercial
products, and that clones/derivatives should be used instead.

I have also read in the BeagleBone SRM that "We mean it; these design
materials may be totally unsuitable for any purposes.". So its
obviously on our own heads - we can not blame anyone else.

But that does not quite answer the question as to whether there is
the same prohibition on commercial use on the BeagleBone.

David

[Gerald Coley]

Are we talking the "design" or the board? We will not guarantee continued supply of any version of the BeagleBone. We will change it as we deem necessary to make it better. Therefore if you put the BeagleBone boards in a product, you will find that a particular revision is no longer made and you cannot buy them. If you want to use the design in a product, that is fine. If you want to build the board yourself, that is fine. We are not in the business to crank out thousands of boards for someone to stick in their product., We want to use our production capacity to build boards that go to the community. If we determine that a distributor is selling the BeagleBone for commercial use, they will find their supply of boards will not be there.

 

 In the use of the design, you are totally responsible for the design and its use in your product. We did not design the board for use in your product and therefore have no way to know if it will work in your product. That is totally your responsibility and not ours. We cannot guarantee that it will work in your product.

 

All the design material is there for you to use as you see fit.

 

Does this answer your question?

 

 

Gerald

David

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Beagle Board" group.
To post to this group, send email to beagl...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard?hl=en.

[David Goodenough]

On Friday 11 Nov 2011, Gerald Coley wrote:
> Are we talking the "design" or the board? We will not guarantee continued
> supply of any version of the BeagleBone. We will change it as we deem
> necessary to make it better. Therefore if you put the BeagleBone boards in
> a product, you will find that a particular revision is no longer made and
> you cannot buy them. If you want to use the design in a product, that is
> fine. If you want to build the board yourself, that is fine. We are not in
> the business to crank out thousands of boards for someone to stick in their
> product., We want to use our production capacity to build boards that go to
> the community. If we determine that a distributor is selling the BeagleBone
> for commercial use, they will find their supply of boards will not be
> there.
>
> In the use of the design, you are totally responsible for the design and
> its use in your product. We did not design the board for use in your
> product and therefore have no way to know if it will work in your product.
> That is totally your responsibility and not ours. We cannot guarantee that
> it will work in your product.
>
> All the design material is there for you to use as you see fit.
>
> Does this answer your question?

Yes, I thought that probably the same rules applied but I had not seen
it written down anywhere and I wanted to be sure.

David

[Gerald Coley]

Let me know if you have any more questions!

 

Gerald

[Gerald Coley]

Ninja blocks is what we call a "value add". If you build a product using say the BeagleBone and you tell the world it is a BeagleBone and promote it as such, then we would consider you for a value add arrangement.

We also have an arrangement where you can buy a board without the logo, making it your product, from the same company that builds the BeagleBoards. Based on the open source license, you can do whatever you want with it, but it is your design and you are totally responsible for it working in you application. It is also not covered under the BeagleBoard.org RMA support or warranty.

Gerald

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:17 AM, <job...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Gerald,

I stumbled upon this thread while searching for any commercial license for the Beaglebone. I've seen that on the Beaglebone website says the Ninja Blocks are built from Beaglebone boards, which is obviously a commercial use for the boards and I know they were doing their kickstarter campaign last year so that happened after these posts here; I'm thinking on building a product around the Beaglebone as well, is that permitted now? or do I have to make the boards myself to supply my own product? I'm asking because I'd like to start with off the shelf boards and then move on to design my own so I can get to production quickly. Thanks in advance for the reply!

Jorge.

--
For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss
 
 

--

Gerald

 

ger...@beagleboard.org

g-co...@ti.com

http://beagleboard.org/

http://circuitco.com/support/

[Jorge Benavides Aspiazu]

Thanks for the reply. It cleared everything.

Jorge.

[Oscar Castiblanco]

Hi all,

I wanted to ask two question regarding commercial usage.
1. About the arrangement to buy a beagle board black without logo mentioned by Gerald. Who handles this arrangement?, CircuitCo does not answer mails and I had not success to contact them.

2. Now Beagle board black will come with debian installed. Has It  some consequence to the commercial use? I mean, Debian is GNU licensed, can a product be sell containing Debian and proprietary software running over it?

[Gerald Coley]

You can build it yourself. The white label program at CCO has been suspended until they get their production capacity increased.

As to the second question, I defer the SW folks.

Gerald

--

For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss

---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Robert Nelson]

> 2. Now Beagle board black will come with debian installed. Has It some
> consequence to the commercial use? I mean, Debian is GNU licensed, can a
> product be sell containing Debian and proprietary software running over it?

If you are purely moving your "application" from an Angstrom install
to a Debian install:

https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-redistrib.en.html

However, if your 'patching' anything in the system, the license of
that item obviously applies.

Regards,

--
Robert Nelson
http://www.rcn-ee.com/

[Oscar Castiblanco]

Thanks for your answers.

Regarding software, I am still lost. I read follow this interesting presentation:
http://coscup.org/2010/slides/14_1_1630_gpl_enforcement.pdf

and as far as I understand, I would not be allowed to sell a product based on the beagle bone black (without logo) with the Debian installed by CircuitCo given that I don't want to open my software that actually is running over a JVM with a licensed javaSE embedded (because I guess I can not either give commercial use to the open-jdk!).

On Friday, November 11, 2011 1:34:32 PM UTC+1, David Goodenough wrote:

[Robert Nelson]

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Oscar Castiblanco <ojo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for your answers.
>
> Regarding software, I am still lost. I read follow this interesting
> presentation:
> http://coscup.org/2010/slides/14_1_1630_gpl_enforcement.pdf
>
> and as far as I understand, I would not be allowed to sell a product based
> on the beagle bone black (without logo) with the Debian installed by
> CircuitCo given that I don't want to open my software that actually is
> running over a JVM with a licensed javaSE embedded (because I guess I can
> not either give commercial use to the open-jdk!).

You are definitely lost. I fail to see how the change from Angstrom to
Debian affects you at all.

Debian like Angstrom is a mixture of software packages under numerous
software licenses.

[Robert Nelson]

BTW: Take a look at this recent example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS

Valve took "Debian 7 (Wheezy)", backported libraries from
(jessie/testing) and added there closed source "Valve Content
Platform" to make SteamOS:

Anything they changed from the base Wheezy install, is avaiable in
their repo here:

http://repo.steampowered.com/steamos/pool/

[Greg Ratzel]

I am not a lawyer, but I think you are misunderstanding what the license pertains to.  Most people are writing their own application that runs on the BeagleBone.  In your case, it may be written in Java and run on a JVM that has a GPL license, but unless you are modifying the JVM code itself, I don't see how the license would apply to your own code.  Likewise with the Linux OS and its licenses.  If you modify the OS or the JVM, you have to publish *that* code.  Your application code is your own business, in the same way that people who write Windows applications don't need to obtain licenses from Microsoft.

[Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak]

On 05/22/2014 09:18 AM, Gerald Coley wrote:
> You can build it yourself. The white label program at CCO has been
> suspended until they get their production capacity increased.

Ugh. Do you have any more information on that? Circuitco is totally
unresponsive about the status of our various orders.

- Mike

[Gerald Coley]

This is why I do not recommend using it in products. I will have them contact you. Our boards for our distributors have #1 priority. Until CCO gets the additional capacity online, all boards go there.

I will have them contact you.

Gerald

--
For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss
--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Gerald Coley]

Michael,

Did you get a response from CCO?

Gerald

[Dr. Michael J. Chudobiak]

On 05/22/2014 11:18 AM, Gerald Coley wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Did you get a response from CCO?

Yes. Thank you!

- Mike

[Gerald Coley]

Let me know if you need anything else!

Gerald

- Mike

[Oscar Castiblanco]

Thanks Greg for the answer.

I understand that for my application there are no problems with the licenses, actually I don't modify the jvm or linux kernel or debian.
The problem I see is: If I deliver jvm in my product in the beagle bone I have to pay a royalty to oracle (http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/resources/se-embeddocs/index.html?ssSourceSiteId=null#faq11),
do I have to handle some legal issues when delivering a GPL licensed software ("embedded-hidden") inside my product?

I also wanted to ask to RobertCNelson, does your BBB debian use non-free packages?

I try this command in a row BBB-debian to find it out:

dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\t${Section}\n' |grep -e non-free -e contrib

and I get no feedback. Is it correct?

On Friday, November 11, 2011 1:34:32 PM UTC+1, David Goodenough wrote:

[Robert Nelson]

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Oscar Castiblanco <ojo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Greg for the answer.
>
> I understand that for my application there are no problems with the
> licenses, actually I don't modify the jvm or linux kernel or debian.
> The problem I see is: If I deliver jvm in my product in the beagle bone I
> have to pay a royalty to oracle
> (http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/embedded/resources/se-embeddocs/index.html?ssSourceSiteId=null#faq11),

Yet another reason to not use software from the skum of the earth
(oracle/java)...

> do I have to handle some legal issues when delivering a GPL licensed
> software ("embedded-hidden") inside my product?

Did you "modify" any GPL software on the system?

We did at beagleboard.org, all those *.deb's we changed also have
source available on debian.beagleboard.org (apt-get source xyz) will
retrieve files.

>
> I also wanted to ask to RobertCNelson, does your BBB debian use non-free
> packages?
>
> I try this command in a row BBB-debian to find it out:
> dpkg-query -W --showformat='${Package}\t${Section}\n' |grep -e non-free -e
> contrib
> and I get no feedback. Is it correct?

Yes it includes the "non-free" repo enabled by default. Which
therefore means "non-free" firmware is installed. I'm sorry, but I'd
rather have our userbase be able to use their wifi adapters.

(atmel-firmware firmware-ralink firmware-realtek libertas-firmware
zd1211-firmware)

BTW:

If this switch from "Angstrom" to "Debian" is too much for you. You
can always contract with someone to give you Angstrom. (it won't be
me)

[Oscar Castiblanco]

Thanks RobertCNelson,

It is much clearer for me now. Actually I am not migrating from Amstrong, I just had some experience with it as it was coming by default in the BBB.
I think you have done an amazing job and I feel grateful with you as a BBB user.

On Friday, November 11, 2011 1:34:32 PM UTC+1, David Goodenough wrote:

[Gerald Coley]

Find somebody else to do business with.

Gerald

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:56 AM, <agk...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gerald,
it seems getting no answer from CCo is a common experience. We have tried on phone, cellphone, fax, email and not received any reply since 8 weeks.As we had bought a four digit number of units in the past and about to repeat the same, we had expected a better service.
Also no communication on outstanding units not delivered and RMAs
From our own production we know that customer service tends to suffer when things run hot, but we still believe we deserve better.
Appreciate your hint to CCo or any advise what we may do better.
Andy

--
For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com.

[David Farning]

Please correct me if I am wrong.

At this point everyone involved in the development and manufacturing
of the BeagleBone Black is doing so at break-even or a financial loss.
This is an intentional strategy to build a critical mass of students,
hackers, and hobbyist to create an ecosystem around the development
system.

This is a good long term strategy and a socially responsible position.
Ideally, a healthy ecosystem will continue to grow around the TI based
chip and the Circuit Co based board.

The challenge comes, as we saw with power up and power down, when
others expect a social responsibility project to meet their needs as a
commercial product.

Again, as I understand it, Circuit Co is at their maximum
manufacturing capacity for the BBB. Everywhere I look, the BBB is sold
out with-in hours of a distributor receiving a batch. Many of the
distributors have agree to sell one per customer until the supply
situation is resolved.

Their goal, at this point, is to get as many units as possible into
hands of students, hackers, and hobbyists to build the ecosystem of
hardware and software developers who have a history of adding value
back into an "open" project.

This is new ground for many people and it will take a while for
everyone to understand how the pieces fit together. The good news is
that everything on the BBB is open so anyone is welcome to manufacture
of modify it to meet their needs.

Dave

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:56 AM, <agk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gerald,
> it seems getting no answer from CCo is a common experience. We have tried on phone, cellphone, fax, email and not received any reply since 8 weeks.As we had bought a four digit number of units in the past and about to repeat the same, we had expected a better service.
> Also no communication on outstanding units not delivered and RMAs
> From our own production we know that customer service tends to suffer when things run hot, but we still believe we deserve better.
> Appreciate your hint to CCo or any advise what we may do better.
> Andy
>

> --
> For more options, visit http://beagleboard.org/discuss
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BeagleBoard" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagleboard...@googlegroups.com.

[Gerald Coley]

And people wonder why I do not recommend using these boards in products. More capacity is ramping now and so far it is looking good.

Gerald

[William Hermans]

How many times has it been said here that the board is not supported for commercial use ?  What does this mean ? It means if you use the beagleBone Black( and probably all the others, but I have not looked ) in a commercial product, you're on your own.

Pretty sure beagleboard.org pages ( among others ? ) say the exact same thing.

I wonder how many time it needs to be said before it sinks in ?

Am I wrong ? Maybe my English skills need polishing . . .

[Robert Nelson]

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:27 PM, William Hermans <yyr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How many times has it been said here that the board is not supported for
> commercial use ? What does this mean ? It means if you use the beagleBone
> Black( and probably all the others, but I have not looked ) in a commercial
> product, you're on your own.
>
> Pretty sure beagleboard.org pages ( among others ? ) say the exact same
> thing.
>
> I wonder how many time it needs to be said before it sinks in ?
>
> Am I wrong ? Maybe my English skills need polishing . . .

I think it's the multi-unit pricing. It's a low price for everyone, no
matter the quantities. I forget who, it was that ST-Ericsson based
board, they had a low price for developers (single quantities) but for
production people they bumped the price by $50 or something.

[William Hermans]

I wonder if that $50 covered all the headaches they received in return ?

[darek....@logicsupply.com]

The recent release of the Embest BeagleBone clone has opened the door for more commercial use of the platform. We recently published a blog post about this very topic.

http://www.logicsupply.com/blog/2014/05/15/new-embest-board-opens-door-for-beaglebone-black-projects/