BeagleBone Black QNX 6.5.0 SP1

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Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 1, 2021, 11:02:15 AM3/1/21
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Hello,

I would like to use QNX on my BeagleBone Black. I have downloaded the QNX Neutrino 6.5.0 SP1 BSP here:


When I load the prebuilt image, it starts perfectly but when I try to build the BSP by myself, I have this : 

Jumping to QNX

System page at phys:80011000 user:fc404000 kern:fc404000
Starting next program at vfe046604
cpu_startnext: cpu0 -> fe046604
VFPv3: fpsid=410330c3
coproc_attach(10): replacing fe07601c with fe0758bc
coproc_attach(11): replacing fe07601c with fe0758bc
Welcome to QNX Neutrino 6.5.0 SP1 on the Texas Instruments BeagleBone (ARMv7 Cortex-A8 core) - Board

Shutdown[0,0] S/C/F=11/1/11 C/D=fe01c68c/fe099ff4 state(c0)= now lock
QNX Version 6.5.0 Release 2010/07/09-14:26:46EDT
[0]PID-TID=1-6? P/T FL=00019001/05020000 "proc/boot/procnto-instr"
[0]ASPACE PID=2 PF=00008012
armle context[effe8f4c]:
0000: 8ffb2000 8ffb2000 8ffb2c01 00000181 effccbf8 01000000 00000000 fc004000
0020: fc004000 effdf47c 01072fff 00000008 00000000 effe8f90 fe046878 fe040e0c
0040: 60000013
instruction[fe040e0c]:
06 30 98 e7 1c 20 94 e5 11 00 12 e3 00 70 94 15 18 20 9d 15 07 70 82 11 0c 00
stack[effe8f90]:
0000: effe8fbc e18a1000 00000000 efffb348 effca00c 003fffff 00000a6e e1988160
0020: 8ffb2000 fffff000 00000000 00000007 00000040 effccbf8 fe099ff0 01000000
0040: 000000ff efff0090 00000073 0000008d effca6e8 fe044744 effccbf8 fe044ad0
0060: efffb348 fe069bac efffb348 fe071e30 effe9018 00000000 00000000 00000000ÿ


As we can see, I have this message : QNX Version 6.5.0 Release 2010/07/09-14:26:46EDT
This means that I try to compile with QNX 6.5.0 and not QNX 6.5.0 SP1. I don't understand why i have this message because I have well installed QNX 6.5.0 SP1 :
1.png

2.jpg
Do I miss something ? Do I have to activate someting somewhere ?

Thank you for your help.

robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 1, 2021, 11:52:43 AM3/1/21
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I vaguely remember the SP install being two manual steps, one being copying files from one place to another

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 1, 2021, 12:02:25 PM3/1/21
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I remember sd  card setup was important on Beagle board. your probably following old or incorrect instructions. What was on this board could be important. What instructions as well.
They used to have a forum before Blackberry bought them.

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robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 1, 2021, 1:07:16 PM3/1/21
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I assumed you did rebuild all <https://community.qnx.com/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.bsp/wiki/Bsp_650InstallationNotes>

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 2, 2021, 2:25:37 AM3/2/21
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The setup I use should be correct since this is the one provided by QNX directly (MLO first, u-boot and image). Moreover, if my setup was incorrect, the prebuilt image could not work.

Yes i rebuilt all by following this https://community.qnx.com/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.bsp/wiki/Bsp_650InstallationNotes but that does not work
Why does it say that I use QNX 6.5.0 (2010) whereas I compile with QNX 6.5.0 SP1 (2012) ? I don't understand, we have been working on this for 3 weeks

robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 2, 2021, 6:52:28 AM3/2/21
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It is a long time since I did any of this, so please forgive any errors and omissions.

You build a file system image from folders of existing (binary) components and folders of freshly created (binary) components. All guided by a script and/or configuration file.

The build process will not build and replace existing components. I found it very difficult to know which version of component was in the file system image.

IIRC, Any component specified by the script/configuration is search for in the:
-   existing folder -- left over rubbish?
-   QNX target folder -- correct PATH?
-   freshly created folder -- actually built?

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 2, 2021, 6:24:34 PM3/2/21
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Hi Robert I think Lucas is saying he's only trying to build the BSP not QNX.

I did this 10 years ago and I also had the latest  BSP guides I tried getting these and you need a customer login. It says it's free for education but again BlackBerry bought this.

What's funny is this link below takes you to another page which says we support these processors. It also says you should lose the latest version's 

QNX SDP 7.0 BSP for Texas Instruments AM335x (Beaglebone Black)





Clicking on the above link  next to the BSP you see another page saying 


The QNX Software Center enables you to download and manage QNX Software Development Platform version 7.x and related products. PDF documentation and Licensing information relating to QNX SDP 7 and related products can also be found here. IMPORTANT: SDP 7.x licenses are initially delivered within the myQNX License Manager and MUST be assigned to users via the license manager in order for them to access the product.

And no code just a login.

That BSP Lucas references is over 6 year's old.

Even 10 year's ago you needed a valid company domain and email address for QNX I know GreenHills and  maybe WindRiver as well wouldn't even reply to a free email domain and definitely won't give you a 30 day level  license key that the license manager needed 

Lucas is this for education 😉?? I know it's frustrating you might have to reach out them about

You end up here



If you click on  Documents  on left  side of above page you go here


Which says 


Choose from the following product versions:

(Note: Some PDF links may require login and product registration to function.)


Clicking on the Document you need ie SP1 takes you here. 

QNX Software Systems



It was that way 10 year's ago I registered with a my  company email.


Sorry I can't be more helpful 


How did you get the images??


Mark 



On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 5:52 AM, robert.sty...@gmail.com

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 2, 2021, 7:25:51 PM3/2/21
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I can't get in without an account if you got the binaries from these links you must have an account.

I forgot to mention when I was successful I used a Beagle Board.

Interesting the BSP images are different if this comments are correct that implies perhaps uboot changed between bone revs I wonder if the top link is for a beaglebone  white perhaps 


Click here to download the MLO and u-boot binaries for the original Beaglebone platform.

Click here to download the MLO and u-boot binaries for the new Beaglebone Black platform.



The release notes below  imply no changes to the BSP source code

QNX Neutrino 6.5.0 Change History#

July 10, 2013#

  • MLO, u-boot, and release note for Beaglebone Black support added (BSP is unchanged)
I can't access any links without registering 

It looks like QNX got loaded and jumped to what's troubling is that version of QNX was from 2010 that date there was no bone just the Beagleboard.

Shutdown[0,0] S/C/F=11/1/11 C/D=fe01c68c/fe099ff4 state(c0)= now lock
QNX Version 6.5.0 Release 2010/07/09-14:26:46EDT

Perhaps if you disassemble the binary and look at the bone memory map and the linker map and the u boot load address for QNX there's a mismatch 

do you have access to BSP users guide? 
.

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 3, 2021, 2:09:38 AM3/3/21
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@lazarman, in fact I'm not a student and I have a company account with a QNX 6.5.0 SP1 licence. I have also already registered to the" QNX Software Development Platform 6.5.x (registration)" link that you gave me. The problem is not the fact that I can't download and install the SDP but the fact that when I build the image thanks to the BSP, I don't have the same result as the prebuilt image

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 3, 2021, 2:15:11 AM3/3/21
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I can send you the files if you don't have an account.

I use the MLO and u-boot files for beaglebone black from this link : "Click here to download the MLO and u-boot binaries for the new Beaglebone Black platform.".

The fact you pointed is troubling. I don't understand why the BSP is unchanged  between beagleboard and BBB.

"Perhaps if you disassemble the binary and look at the bone memory map and the linker map and the u boot load address for QNX there's a mismatch 
do you have access to BSP users guide? " 

I will try to do that but I'm not an expert. I have access to the user guide yes... 
BSP_User_Guide_Texas_Instruments_AM335x_BeagleBone.pdf

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 3, 2021, 9:03:47 AM3/3/21
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Let's start with some history about what rev board you have , what was on SD before and whats in  the emc now and details about tools you installed to build BSP and QNX and exactly the BSP file's you are compiling as well as your goals. Are you trying to eventually modify the BSP source?
I'm guessing you have no support forum or no ones replying at QNX?
I need a clear picture of what you did exactly installing tools as in did you install multiple times etc etc 

I'll look at the pdf you supplied and ponder whether it worthwhile and practical to find my Beagleboard,Whites,blacks or even Pandaboard.
power supplies may be hard to match I've moved a lot. I guess a black would be easy for me to find but may be in storage.

 Also maybe they will let me reeducate myself as I'm not working on a commercial product and give me access otherwise it's harder to help.

Hopefully I can get you on the right path 

Mark

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 3, 2021, 10:02:44 AM3/3/21
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Mark,

I have a BeagleBone Black REV C.
There was nothing on the SD before. I did not touch to the EMC so I think there is nothing inside.
My company has a QNX 6.5.0 SP1 licence and here is the list of the tools installed on my computer: 

1.png
2.jpg

First, I formated my SD card in FAT32, I made it active by using diskpart and I copied the MLO and then the u-boot files. I took them from here : https://community.qnx.com/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.bsp/wiki/TiAm335Beaglebone
Bootloader modules# --> "Click here to download the MLO and u-boot binaries for the new Beaglebone Black platform. "

After that, I downloaded the BSP files: QNX Neutrino 6.5.0 SP1# -->  Download Project Downloads --> bsp-nto650-ti-beaglebone-sp1-trunk-201209071340.zip
(I attach MLO, u-boot and BSP to this mail)
After extracting, I copied the file "prebuilt-bsp-ti-beaglebone.ifs" in the "image" folder to my sdcard and I could succesfully launch QNX on my BBB by typing these commands :
--> fatload mmc 0 0x81000000 prebuilt-bsp-ti-beaglebone.ifs
--> go 0x81000000

That worked perfectly. 

When I try to compile the image by myself it gets complicated.

if I compile the BSP without modifying anything, I should get the prebuilt image, right ?
The problem is that, when I do that, I have the message I gave in the first post and it says that I compile with QNX 6.5.0 and not with QNX 6.5.0 SP1 (whereas it is installed).

"I'm guessing you have no support forum or no ones replying at QNX?" I don't have support anymore and the only thing the told me is that I don't use QNX 6.5.0 SP1

I don't know what to do anymore and the QNX SDP is not on my computer so I can't use it whenever I want
MLO and u-boot binaries for Beaglebone Black Platform.zip
bsp-nto650-ti-beaglebone-sp1-trunk-201209071340.zip

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 3, 2021, 1:50:58 PM3/3/21
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These commands you entered  are where? uboot?

--> fatload mmc 0 0x81000000 prebuilt-bsp-ti-beaglebone.ifs
--> go 0x81000000

Why not automate these commands ?

<<<if I compile the BSP without modifying anything, I should get the prebuilt image, right ?

In theory if you have a license BUT 
some RTOS companies dont supply BSP source code unless you paid fees 

So do you need to modify BSP>



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Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 4, 2021, 2:20:34 AM3/4/21
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Yes I entered these commands in u-boot, I could have automated them but I prefer to write them for the moment.

"In theory if you have a license BUT 
some RTOS companies dont supply BSP source code unless you paid fees 

So do you need to modify BSP" 

Yes in theory I agree. I will need to modify the BSP because I want Isagraf so I have to install the drivers (to make the beaglebone black a target I can load through IsaGraf)

In fact I'm very lost with all of these things

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 11:16:54 AM3/4/21
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The BSP pdf you sent references another BSP user's guide can you find it?



On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:20 AM, Lucas SOLDA

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 4, 2021, 11:48:54 AM3/4/21
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I think the guide refers to this : http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.6.0.update/#com.qnx.doc.bsp_update.guide/topic/bsp_660_structure.html

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 12:09:40 PM3/4/21
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The read me for the BSP zip files you attached go look at it
It says it's a QNX 6.50 BSP.
See if you can get the latest BSP 7.0
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 10:49 AM, Lucas SOLDA

robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 4, 2021, 12:22:36 PM3/4/21
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Also Working with a BSP http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.5.0SP1.update/com.qnx.doc.neutrino_building/bsp.html

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 12:34:57 PM3/4/21
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Hi Robert


If my memory is correct support told him not to work with SP1
Too many discrepancies going on. Tool mismatches 
I'm also not sure if he's got paid support or if that exist.?

I'm not surprised QNX left working binaries anybody can get that working and that's pretty typical  his issue is he needs to rebuild BSP sources and he can't 

I recommend he uses 7.0 if he's licensed he should have access and they should answer questions if not at least he's using latest BSP 

I saw you mentioned paths to SDP to me he's got something incorrect and if I was doing this I would start clean with the latest BSP not something 7 year's old.

Mark

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 12:51:42 PM3/4/21
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Page 15 of the pdf you sent we need that document

. Please refer to the QNX SDP 6.6.0 BSPs guide, available as part of the QNX Software Development Platform OS Core Components documentation

I also need you to see if you can get the latest BSP referenced in my previous post I think it was 7.0

I have uncovered at least 5 problems with your original posting its a QXX documentation mismatch not you. I am concerned this stuff you started with is very old and probally not supported by Blackberry

You have to start simple and slowly and logically so be patient before we start with 7.0 we need the document above



robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 4, 2021, 1:28:53 PM3/4/21
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7.0 worked on X15 except vector graphics

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 1:42:06 PM3/4/21
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Hi Robert 

That's good to know I saw the x15 7.0 BSP
Where you able to rebuild BSP sources ?
And do they actually respond to support questions for educational users? 😉


Looks like most of their revenue comes from automobile infotainmen at least the people hiring recently 

Mark

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 4, 2021, 2:28:17 PM3/4/21
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I don't know where to find the document on page 15... There are so much references about it on google.
I can't get QNX 7.0. When I asked for it they sent me a 10 000+ € quotation...
Moreover there is no BSP for beaglebone black for QNX 7.0, they stopped supporting it after QNX 6.6 :

BBB.PNG

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 3:18:51 PM3/4/21
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I'm afraid their reply tells me everything. Their website says they have it and they asked for $$$ for it so it's not free.

In theory you  could continue to try to build 6.5 missing out on features and bug fixes.

This isn't the first time I have seen the binary works BUT source code of BSP doesn't work marketing ploy.

Again in theory if you had BSP experience you could roll your own after figuring out why the 6.5 BSP crashes but people make careers of BSP the best work for commercial RTOS vendor's and do what you are trying to do.

Let me translate this below


<<Moreover there is no BSP for beaglebone black for QNX 7.0, they stopped <<supporting it after QNX 6.6 :

Nobody's paying $$$$ or using this platform in the industry. We can't pay anybody to support this 

BlackBerry almost went out of business I'd find a different vendor 




On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 1:28 PM, Lucas SOLDA

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 3:59:40 PM3/4/21
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Lucas

If you need a Unix like RTOS see if lynxos supplies BSP source code 


Then reply to the QNX sales guy saying great thanks we are going to use lynxos 

But make sure your boss agrees. 

Sadly too many manager's think BSP is free. This gas been happening for 30 year's.

Or go Linux it's free. My favorite commercial  RTOS  is GreenHills they support TI hardware.

If I was you think real hard how to explain to boss so he doesn't think it's your fault after all most bosses think Linux is free I'll hire a young engineer save $10k fee for BSP should take him 1 week. 

It's even worse the new trend is when someone needs help you tell them wait till the Google Summer project's 

If Boss doesn't understand this is bad approach send your resume out ASAP make sure he's not reading this drinking scotch though.

In all seriousness your a smart guy an engineer think this through carefully so Lucas is first. Then also drink some scotch 

Regards 
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 2:17 PM, 'Mark Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 4:11:07 PM3/4/21
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This time ask new vendor about BSP source code cost and if support is included for your board.

You never told us if your product was using custom hardware or incorporating the beaglebone board.


If you know boss has no money tell him Linux😉🤣 is free














Virtualization & RTOS Solutions | Lynx Software Technologies



On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 2:59 PM, 'Mark Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard

Robert Forsyth

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Mar 4, 2021, 5:34:59 PM3/4/21
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Old product used QNX 6, had long (6 months~1 year) trial licence for 7.0, I think I was able to build the file-system image, but could not get the driver for vector graphics processor to recognize the hardware, so the tiger demo did not work on AM5728 BB X15. (This is probably because GC320 is a compositor, not vector-graphics like GC355.)

We did not have gold level support, questions often take days to be answered and often direct you to documentation and someone who can program it for you at a cost. It might be non paying users only had community support, if you are trying to sell QNX, you need to make it easy as pie to switch from something free.

QNX development works well, once hardware and software development is setup, I would say it is easier to develop and debug communicating multi-process applications on QNX than Windows, Linux or RTOS (QNX IPC coincided with what I learned at uni); if you don't try to do it the Linux way. RTOS probably has the closest IPC ability to QNX, but way cruder; QNX has lovely variable length message passing.
Technical and library problems seemed often like Windows: you know what you want to do, and you found a function which seems like it would do what you want, but the documentation says something like "setWombat( x ) sets the wombat to x" and you find you have spent hours/days finding how it works.
Some drivers were based on Linux version, using QNX version

Linux and RTOS are free, process isolation with separate processors is cheapish, but takes up PCB space. I think Qt sold infotainment, QNX would useful for process isolation on one (multi-core) processor, so you could isolate the infotainment application from the air-bag monitor.



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beagleboard/134662134.438935.1614883309815%40mail.yahoo.com.


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Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 4, 2021, 7:22:31 PM3/4/21
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The file system isn't the BSP. This part supplies all architecture specific(ASP) functions like Cache,MMU and the board specific drivers for on chip peripherals on all cores.

If I understand Lucas correctly and you look at the zip file he provided  the support is limited as to drivers and he needs to recompile that and add to it.
That's the only reason he can't use the binary.

From your response it appears you didn't need to modify this.

I would guess the x15 BSP is more inclusive and mature but doubt it provided loading  c6x  DSP code or Cortex M4 code but it's not relevant to Lucas.

Your experience with support below 

<<We did not have gold level support, questions often take days to be answered <<and often direct you to documentation and someone who can program it for <<you at a cost. It might be non paying users only had community support

To me it sounds like Lucas has the tin can  support which is similar to open source support.

Ie post and pray😉

robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 4, 2021, 9:59:32 PM3/4/21
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As you ask, what is missing from the BSP that needs building? If nothing, the next step is getting network setup to connect with SSH and IDE, possibly run network file system client to access files on your development PC.


Re: File System Image (I cannot remember all the details) 

You use an IDE BSP project to build a bootable image including your application (started by boot script which also loads any needed drivers).
This bootable image can be copied to a flash drive or accessed from a network file system (during development).
The bootable image may be compressed read-only and expanded into a RAM backed 'disk' or expanded on the fly.

During application development, the bootable image boots to "sh" command line. You can run any missed commands in the boot script.
You use the IDE to connect the debugger over ethernet to QNX process and temporary download your debug version application. The IDE debugger can run, pause, single-step, etc.

In the BSP project you edit a configuration which controls what is included in the boot image. You add or remove files from the prebuilt folder. You edit the start up script to load and configure drivers.

In QNX drivers and file-systems are server processes/programs which respond to certain messages. Most QNX programs and applications are servers which wait on a message queue.
QNX provides a POSIX wrapper server which converts system calls into send-wait-reply messages or convert signals into send-and-forget pulse messages. QNX also has time limited blocking on both send and receive messages.

The QNX micro-kernel schedules process execution, allocates memory for messages, and transfers messages between processes.
It is supported server programs to implement the OS functions.

robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 4, 2021, 10:07:15 PM3/4/21
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Upgrading QNX Development System.

From memory, it is more involved than downloading a SP file and running it.
You have to unzip the download.
Find the old files.
Copy the old files to a backup name or folder.
Copy the new files from the zip archive, over the old files.

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 5, 2021, 2:32:14 AM3/5/21
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Thank you all for your answers, I will try to answer you in one post.

"You never told us if your product was using custom hardware or incorporating the beaglebone board."
If I use something else than QNX, I won't be able to port all the work made by my colleague. In fact, we are creating and developping our own electronic cards and we use QNX to programm them. We wanted to use the BeagleBone Black to realize some tests (test bench) on our products and by using QNX, we just should have ported our already existing programs. I'm not the person in charge of programming, builing, compiling QNX but I develop the product in which our cards are installed. This is why I don't understand everything about BSP, QNX, etc. 

"As you ask, what is missing from the BSP that needs building?" : We want to add the IsaGraf drivers in order to make the BeagleBone Black a target source in which we can send programms. I think, the BSp does need to be modified in that case , doesn't it ?

We cannot upgrade our QNX development system because it would be too dangerous. We have only one licence and we don't want to destroy anything.

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 5, 2021, 5:51:37 AM3/5/21
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Well, we found a solution to just use the prebuilt image I attached earlier but know it is only in read mode. I don't the username and the password so I can't put my librairies to usr/lib...
What a shame that OS

robert.sty...@gmail.com

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Mar 5, 2021, 8:07:37 AM3/5/21
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Add a partition or another storage device. To mount once booted.

Add a partition to your storage,
so that you have a smallish boot image partition which will be read-only and a data partition which is read/write.

Add another storage device,
so that you have read/write storage which is not just volatile RAM-disk. I think we used FTP or IDE to copy files to the R/W storage and add to the PATH.

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 5, 2021, 8:28:08 AM3/5/21
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Thank you, now I can add files ! 

Now I try to make GPIO work

Lucas SOLDA

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Mar 5, 2021, 9:04:51 AM3/5/21
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I don't know how to change Mode of the GPIO. Still searching lol

Mark Lazarewicz

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Mar 7, 2021, 10:49:46 AM3/7/21
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Here's the good news.


The Bad news is you will have to change the addresses by reading the AMx35x TRM to find the correct address you need for your gpio.


On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:13 AM, Lucas SOLDA
I don't know how to change Mode of the GPIO. Still searching lol


Le vendredi 5 mars 2021 à 14:28:08 UTC+1, Lucas SOLDA a écrit :
Thank you, now I can add files ! 

Now I try to make GPIO work

Le vendredi 5 mars 2021 à 14:07:37 UTC+1, robert.sty...@gmail.com a écrit :
Add a partitiyou need on or another storage device. To mount once booted.
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