REV C UPDATE

55 views
Skip to first unread message

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 12:01:31 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Fellow Beaglers,
 
We wanted to give you an update on the Rev C board. We have just finished up the latest spin of the board, so we are running behind schedule. At this point we are looking at the middle of Q1 to get the Rev C out of production.
 
The key changes are as follows:
 
1) Addition of the USB Host port....We are moving this to Port 2 on the OMAP3530 instead of Port1. This allows us to align from a SW perspective with other platforms out there such as Pandora.
 
2) We have added access to the native LCD signals...This however came at a price. We had to move the DVI-D connector to make room for a pair of headers to provide access to the signals. This was a very painful change, especially when coupled with the move to Port2 on the USB. It has taken us several weeks to get it worked in. We hated to move the DVI-D connector, but there wasn't a way around it.
 
I have attached a mockup of what the changes will look like in the area around the DVI-D connector to give you an idea of what the change will look like.
 
If you have any questions, please feel free to let us know.
 
Gerald
 
 
Beagle_exp_LCD_RevC.JPG

Felipe Contreras

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 12:32:32 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Hmm, It looks like I won't be able to use both S-Video and DVI-D at
the same time, because the converter will cover that port.

--
Felipe Contreras

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 12:54:12 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
There is no conflict. As I said, this is a mock up to show the basic idea. This is not a picture of the board. You will be able to use both at the same time.
 
Gerald

Adam Yergovich

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 2:32:14 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Gerald Coley wrote:

Changes look good. I think it will be generally better to have the
external connectors confined to just the three sides. I look forward to
playing with the LCD signals, is the LCD supported as the default
xterm/user console for any of the linux distros yet? I'm still digging
through Angstrom and Debian but its not immediately clear.

-Adam

--
Adam Yergovich
Engineer
JK Microsystems

1403 Fifth St. Suite D
Davis, CA 95616

Tel:(530) 297-6073

Koen Kooi

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 2:38:43 PM10/14/08
to Beagle Board
On 14 okt, 20:32, Adam Yergovich <aye...@jkmicro.com> wrote:

> Changes look good.  I think it will be generally better to have the
> external connectors confined to just the three sides.  I look forward to
> playing with the LCD signals, is the LCD supported as the default
> xterm/user console for any of the linux distros yet?  I'm still digging
> through Angstrom and Debian but its not immediately clear.

Angstrom has a console both on LCD and serial.

regards,

Koen

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 2:51:17 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
The same signals will drive the DVI-D framer. There is a signal that will allow you to disable the framer if you like form SW.
 
Gerald

Doug Emes

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 6:42:26 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org> wrote:
> Fellow Beaglers,
> We wanted to give you an update on the Rev C board. We have just finished up
> the latest spin of the board, so we are running behind schedule. At this
> point we are looking at the middle of Q1 to get the Rev C out of production.
[snip]

For rev. d an onwards, have you considered having a 2nd not-expansion board?
That is to say, using another 10pin connector (like the serial port)
to place the
Svideo, Line-out, Mic-In, and other bulky connectors off the main board? Those
pins should be pretty tolerant of the added distance (by virtue of
their usage -
whats another couple inches). that should free up a bunch of space "on the
top end" of the board for signal paths that really need the short distances.

Just a thought off the cuff, so to speak.

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 14, 2008, 7:37:51 PM10/14/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
That has been considered. we have a lot of ideas that we continue to bat around.
 
The decision we made early on was standard buses, which means standard connectors. We had not really planned to focus much at all on real expansion. The existing expansion header was just a few standard buses that in and of themselves did not have any sort of standard connectors, like I2C and I2S. This is why we did not make the LCD interface available because at 1.8V, it wouldn't drive any display anyway. We focused on keepng the cost down. Everything we add from now on must be with keeping the cost under control as it is our foremost concern. There are a lot of OMAP3 base boards out there and our goal is not to compete with them in the area of expansion and I/O. Having done 20 OMAP development board over the years, I have seen what happens when you make everyone happy. There is a lot of waste and everybody pays for it whether they use it or not.
 
As to Rev D, there are no solid plans in place for that. REV C could be the final revision or we could end up at Rev F. Who knows. We plan to listen, take input, and do what we can when we can, and when it still aligns with our overall goals.
 
Thank you for the input!
 
Gerald

O D

unread,
Oct 15, 2008, 5:55:44 AM10/15/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
If I may ask this question here...
Digi-key Europe doesn't has any more Beagleboards on the stock. Does anybody knows when we can expect them again here?
Middle of Q1 seems a long time from now... :(

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 15, 2008, 6:55:00 AM10/15/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Middle of Q1 is for Rev C and not the current revision. We are switching to REV B6, which fixes the layout for the U9 and U11 issue to support a different package. This should solve the U9 and U11 issue we have been having. These boards will show up the first week in November. We should also be shipping another 200 Rev B5 boards this week.
 
Gerald

Nathan Monson

unread,
Oct 15, 2008, 1:20:02 PM10/15/08
to Beagle Board
On Oct 15, 3:55 am, "Gerald Coley" <ger...@beagleboard.org> wrote:
> Middle of Q1 is for Rev C and not the current revision. We are switching to
> REV B6. These boards will show up the first week in November.

There is a rumor on the IRC channel that B6 will switch to ES3.0. Is
that going to happen before Q1?

- Nathan

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 15, 2008, 2:11:17 PM10/15/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
No. The plan right now is that Rev B6 will be ES2.1. If it changes, I will let everyone know.
 
Gerald

gregoir...@gmail.com

unread,
Oct 15, 2008, 1:33:23 AM10/15/08
to Beagle Board
Gerald,

Can you explain what is the process between "finishing the latest spin
of the board" and the "Rev is out of production". Why does this take 3
to 4 months?

Grégoire
>  Beagle_exp_LCD_RevC.JPG
> 87KViewDownload

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 15, 2008, 6:58:41 PM10/15/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Layout is under review.
 
2 weeks to get 20 protoypes in.
1 week to assemble the boards
4 weeks to test the boards and all the new SW
6 weeks to get production boards in.
2 weeks to get first 1000 assembled and tested
 
Total of  15 weeks, not counting the holidays. I think this makes it to the 1Q of 2009 as I stated.
 
Gerald

Frantisek Dufka

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 9:19:46 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Gerald Coley wrote:
> The key changes are as follows:
>
> 1) Addition of the USB Host port....
>
> 2) We have added access to the native LCD signals...
>
> If you have any questions, please feel free to let us know.

Ther are some rumours about rev C having 256MB of RAM, see
http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Revision_C
http://www.beagleboard.org/irclogs/index.php?date=2008-10-01#T19:10:58

Are we getting 256MB RAM in rev C?

Regards,
Frantisek

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:00:02 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
As you say, that is a rumor. I have no plans to put 256MB on the Rev C board.
 
Gerald

Johnny You 游文洲

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:18:16 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Hi,

        I’m a little bit curious about the beagle board, what type of application did you build with the beagle board?

We know from the datasheet that BB are suitable for developing handheld devices, home entertainment, etc.

But, what kind of application did you guys developed using this board?

 

 

Thanks &  Best regards !!  

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

游文洲 / Yohannes Budiono Jinawi / Jonny You

National Central University

Room A305-1, No.300, Zhongda Rd., Zhongli City, Taoyuan County 320, Taiwan (R.O.C.)

9652...@cc.ncu.edu.tw

+886 910926117

Lab www : http://cilab.csie.ncu.edu.tw/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:51:40 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
As to 256MB I wanted to let everyone know what we are thinking and where we are.
 
We have been testing the 256MB memory to make sure there are no issues, so there are a few early REV C boards out there, 4 in fact. The concern of making 256MB standard on Rev C is the cost. The 256MB has a significant cost to it and we would need to raise the price of the board to cover the additional cost.
 
We are not sure if that additional cost will hurt us in allowing us to keep the Beagle affordable or if the additional cost is worth it. We also have the additional cost of the USB host on the REVC which we are planning to absorb, but when you add in the added memory cost, that makes it tougher.
 
So, right now, the plan is to keep the memory where it is with 128MB. Based on these discussions and other discussions, we may decide to add the 256MB as standard and raise the price of the Beagle. The question is how much increase in cost is acceptable. We may be able to pass on a portion of the cost and absorb the rest, but right now we are not sure if we can. We are due to discuss this tomorrow and I will update everyone with what we decide.
 
In the mean time, if we could get feedback as to what the added memory is worth, that will help us make the case for moving forward with 256MB as standard on Beagle.
 
Gerald

Bill Gatliff

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:55:24 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Gerald Coley wrote:
> In the mean time, if we could get feedback as to what the added memory
> is worth, that will help us make the case for moving forward with 256MB
> as standard on Beagle.

I'd give you another US$30 per-board for the USB and memory updates, easy.


b.g.
--
Bill Gatliff
bg...@billgatliff.com

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:57:12 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Any application that runs a high level OS such as Linux. Look at the Archos 5 paler that has just been released which has OMAP3530 in it. There is anew class of devices called MID (Mobile Internet Device) that are emerging onto the market and it is projected that in five years it will out sell laptops.
 
Here is a short  list of things that the OMAP is good for:
 
MID
NAS Servers
Medical Devices
Digital signage
Software Defined Radio
Telecomminucations
Audio
Appliances
 
I hope this helps!
 
Gerald


 
2008/10/16 Johnny You 游文洲 <9250...@cc.ncu.edu.tw>

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:57:57 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
I have $30. Do I hear $35!
 
Thank you!
 
Gerald

Robert Kuhn

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 10:58:54 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
2008/10/16 Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org>:

> I have $30. Do I hear $35!

$30-50 only for memory.No problem! We (for example) need it!

Robert

Felipe Contreras

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:10:02 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org> wrote:
> There is no conflict. As I said, this is a mock up to show the basic idea.
> This is not a picture of the board. You will be able to use both at the same
> time.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself correctly.

If the DVI-D is right next to the S-Video, then when using this kind
of adapters will block the S-Video:
http://www.hometech.com/video/gc-1212321.jpg

--
Felipe Contreras

Doug Emes

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:13:33 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Felipe,

They make adapters that have a cable in between the two heads that
would not block
the svideo port. I have one that came with my computer desktop
motherboard actually.
An example: http://www.nulime.com/Startech-Digital-Video-Cable/p75182

Måns Rullgård

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:14:03 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Count me in. My experience with the prototype has been nothing but
good.

What about memory speed. My rev C prototype has faster memory than the
rev B, and it's showing.

You've mentioned a possibility of running two versions. Is that still
being considered as an option?

--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com

Måns Rullgård

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:15:34 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

You can always use an HDMI-DVI cable, or put an HDMI-female to DVI-male
adaptor on the other end.

--
Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com

John Beetem

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:31:10 AM10/16/08
to Beagle Board
Just for the sake of discussion, is it possible to increase RAM to
256MB and decrease NAND to 128MB with minimal change in cost? Any
serious Linux use seems to require an SD card for the file system, so
the actual NAND use is more or less limited to storing MLO, uBoot, and
a kernel image.

I can easily add more NAND using an SD card or USB Flash drive, but
adding high-bandwidth RAM is not possible.

Bill Gatliff

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:37:18 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!! I think we coulda had him for $30! :)

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:39:27 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
That could be the case. But, I recommend and always have to use the cable and not the adapter. You won't find the adapter in the reference manual at all.
 
There will always be the case that some adapter out ther may not work. We aren't in a postiotion to try and support every adapter out there.  This is just a price that will need to be paid in order to get the LCD signal access and I think it is worth it.
 
 
Gerald


 
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Felipe Contreras <felipe.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ilja Kamps

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:47:43 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
On the other hand it would put me off, 128MB works for what I need to do
and the additional cost would be a shame.

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:51:51 AM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Thank you for your inpu!
 
Gerald

Matthias Klostermann

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 12:47:38 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
I wouldn't mind to pay $30 for a 256MB RAM version of the Board. The idea to reduce the onchip NAND to balance out a bit of the cost for more RAM sounds good, too. Except for the bootloader, I don't have any use for it anyways, and more (and faster?) RAM would be more of an advantage.

Matthias

Nathan Monson

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 1:04:22 PM10/16/08
to Beagle Board
I'd hate to see the price go up. For me, the rock bottom price is the
main selling point of the BeagleBoard, not the amount of memory.
Running a swap partition on a newish SD card is faster than I
expected.

Ideas I do like:
Offering a $200 Power User Beagleboard without discontinuing the
$150 model
Reducing the NAND to pay for the additional memory without raising
the price

- Nathan

Koen Kooi

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 1:10:25 PM10/16/08
to Beagle Board
On 16 okt, 17:14, Måns Rullgård <m...@mansr.com> wrote:
> Robert Kuhn wrote:
>
> > 2008/10/16 Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org>:
>
> >> I have $30. Do I hear $35!
>
> > $30-50 only for memory.No problem! We (for example) need it!
>
> Count me in.  My experience with the prototype has been nothing but
> good.


$30-$50 more for extra ram would be acceptable for me as well.

regards,

Koen

> What about memory speed.  My rev C prototype has faster memory than the
> rev B, and it's showing.
>
> You've mentioned a possibility of running two versions.  Is that still
> being considered as an option?
>
> --
> Måns Rullgård
> m...@mansr.com

Darcy Moen

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 1:14:04 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Mind if I toss my hat into the ring?

How about a 128 OR 256 ram, fully loaded SD card including preconfigured
OS (Angstrom or Ubuntu), power supply, USB, DVI, Serial, and Svideo
cables ready to go 'Beagle for Dummies' or 'Beagle of Non-geeks', or
'Beagle right out of the box'?

Fully loaded price: what ever you set. I'm sure there would be folks
willing to buy it, even if for the novelty of it.

I'd be in for one, cause I've been too busy to play. Would love to buy
one and be able to play right out of the box. Or would that offend the
purists with passion?

Darcy

Robert Nelson

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 2:04:34 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
I'd pay $30-$50 extra for 256MB, any chance at 512MB? ;)

--
Robert Nelson
http://www.rcn-ee.com/

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 2:11:29 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
So, let's take this to another angle. Is it feasible to have two versions, 128MB standard version at the $149 point, and a turbo version at a higher price point, say $175 as that is in the area most of you seem to be OK with? Does this make sense?
 
Now, from my perspective, this will be a nightmare trying to figure out how many of each to build and figuring out the correct mix. But, if this is what we need to do, then we will try to figure something out assuming that we could make it work.
 
What would everyone guess as to the mix, 50/50?
 
What say ye?
 
Gerald

Paul Pignon

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 2:18:36 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Likewise. We really want that USB.

/Paul

Bill Gatliff wrote:
> Gerald Coley wrote:
>
>> In the mean time, if we could get feedback as to what the added memory
>> is worth, that will help us make the case for moving forward with 256MB
>> as standard on Beagle.
>>
>
> I'd give you another US$30 per-board for the USB and memory updates, easy.
>
>
> b.g.
>
>
>


--
Paul Pignon, CTO
pa...@bps.co.ee
Tel. +372 6803515
Mob. +372 53463942, +46 705508655
Skype: paulspignon

Borthwick-Pignon OÜ
Liivaoja 1-33
10155 Tallinn
Estonia
EU
http://bps.co.ee


Bill Gatliff

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 2:49:47 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Gerald Coley wrote:
> So, let's take this to another angle. Is it feasible to have two
> versions, 128MB standard version at the $149 point, and a turbo version
> at a higher price point, say $175 as that is in the area most of you
> seem to be OK with? Does this make sense?
>
> Now, from my perspective, this will be a nightmare trying to figure out
> how many of each to build and figuring out the correct mix. But, if this
> is what we need to do, then we will try to figure something out assuming
> that we could make it work.
>
> What would everyone guess as to the mix, 50/50?

At US$175, I won't bother looking at the smaller unit--- I'll just standardize
on the turbo version as my "standard" version when I need actual hardware to
promote OMAP to a client.

As a project-builder, if I'm already "in it" for $149 then I'll spend the extra
money on the assumption that I'll find a way to need the extra resources on the
larger board (uniformly true for 15 years and counting!). I've made a pretty
serious investment already, the additional $30 is like insurance against losing
the whole $149 because the smaller board was too small (assuming the lack of
expansion options isn't a non-starter already).

My reverse-angle argument goes like this. At $150 just to play with
beagleboard, if $30 is a deal-breaker then maybe the buyer needs to reconsider
the whole effort. Beagleboard is unique in some ways, not in others.

Don't bother flaming, you don't have to like or adopt my opinions. :)

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 3:21:10 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Do you think that difference in price will scare away students for example? We are looking to work Beagle into the universities at some point. It would be very nice as I mentioned to build only one version.
 
Gerald

Bill Gatliff

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 3:28:45 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Gerald Coley wrote:
> Do you think that difference in price will scare away students for
> example? We are looking to work Beagle into the universities at some
> point. It would be very nice as I mentioned to build only one version.

Can't say for sure (who can?).

The biggest "scary point" is $100, and I don't see a way to get below that.

I'm mostly familiar with Extension and corporate students, and in that crowd
anything sub-$200 seems palatable.

For undergrads, I guess it's whatever their parents will spend :), and sub-$200
still seems ok--- especially if the curriculum re-uses the board for multiple
classes.

Frantisek Dufka

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 4:54:11 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Gerald Coley wrote:
> So, let's take this to another angle. Is it feasible to have two
> versions, 128MB standard version at the $149 point, and a turbo version
> at a higher price point, say $175 as that is in the area most of you
> seem to be OK with? Does this make sense?

That would be great. Makes perfect sense. Please go for it if you can.

Also maybe in such case it even makes sense to bump the price up to 189
or 199 and add some other low hanging fruit goodies you may have on the
'removed to keep the cost down' list. Rationale is that the price
difference is small and the target group for the turbo version is less
sensitive to price. But if this feel like opening can of worms then
please forget what I just said. I'm perfectly happy with $179 256MB
variant of REV C board :-)

>
> Now, from my perspective, this will be a nightmare trying to figure out
> how many of each to build and figuring out the correct mix. But, if this
> is what we need to do, then we will try to figure something out assuming
> that we could make it work.

Maybe some web based voting on beagleboard.org could help?

Frantisek

Malina, Jim

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 5:25:18 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
I'll second that.

$150 (or lower) is an extremely compelling beagleboard feature for us.

If you were to offer a turbo product (at higher cost) are there any other integrations that might be considered? Memory+, Ethernet? Battery? Wifi, Bluetooth...

Jim

V. Elishah Frey

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 6:54:53 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
It seems absolutely silly to me to integrate a battery or wifi or bluetooth.  What atracts me to the beagleboard is it's costamizability, and the instant you build something in you close the option to the developer to use a variation on that built in device.  What is built into the board, what I think is succesfull, are devices that everybody wants to use, and, more importantly, devices that would be much much much more expensive to be put together by a hobbiest.
 
-E.L.F.

Geof Cohler

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 7:19:19 PM10/16/08
to Beagle Board
On the Special Adapter versus Special Cable issue... The advantage of
the Adapter is that it costs about $4 and then you can plug in the
cable you already have that came with your monitor. So I think you're
right that the Rev C design will make it so that you must use a
special $15 cable (HDMI-M to DVI-D-M) rather than a Special $4 Adapter
plus a Standard Cable. It's not the end of the world.

Geof



On Oct 16, 11:13 am, "Doug Emes" <kyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 10:10 AM, Felipe Contreras
>

Gerald Coley

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 7:21:01 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Adding additional functions to the board adds cost, which at least to me, seems to be going in the wrong direction. As E.L.F. points out, the ability to work with work with different suppliers of these devices. Instead of having OMAP3 drivers for every single supplier of BT and WiFi devices, you would only have one. Another factor is that anything added other board will cost us more than having those devices being made my the thousands in the commercial market. 
 
Gerald

John Beetem

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 7:26:42 PM10/16/08
to Beagle Board
Here's my 1.49 cents...

Personally, what really drew me to BeagleBoard was the $149 price
point (versus 10x for Mistral or >2x for other ARM development
boards). I figured that not only would it save me money, but it would
foster a large user community which is critical for open source
software of this complexity. [As an aside, I did have to match the
$149 with another $150 for a DVI-D monitor, so I really didn't save
that much up front. Except that I do have a really nice monitor now.]

128MB DRAM is plenty for my current and immediate applications. I was
looking for a development board that had capabilities similar to a
smart phone or netbook, and BeagleBoard fits that nicely.

There is always a danger with adding more DRAM: software has a
tendency to bloat to fill available resources. One of the beauties of
the embedded world is that limited resources have encouraged more
efficient use of processor cycles and memory. It would be a shame to
see software bloat take over the embedded world as it did the desktop.

My recommendation: please make sure there is still a $149 version
available. It's OK to have an extra-cost version for high-end users,
but that $149 sure is compelling. Whenever I show it to other
engineers, it's the $149 that causes their jaws to drop.

DOUAT Laurent

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 7:46:46 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Hello,

My 2 cents.
I plan to make rich ui + web browsing + tv services. for such classic project, I think 128MB is feasible but will need more integration effort.
Going up to 256MB (with faster speed: Mans remark) is making sense and will create a breaking difference for the beagleboard.
The Pandora box costs 330 $ with 128MB
Another point : Maybe mid/end 2009 the 256MB SDRAM will cost the current price of the 128MB ?
 
Voting time :
175$ for 256MB : All in.
 
Laurent
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:11 PM
Subject: [beagleboard] Re: REV C UPDATE

Frantisek Dufka

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 11:58:44 PM10/16/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
V. Elishah Frey wrote:
> It seems absolutely silly to me to integrate a battery or wifi or
> bluetooth. What atracts me to the beagleboard is it's costamizability,

Yes, I was thinking about perhaps additonal MMC slot or any other
existing OMAP3 I/O currently missing for cost reasons. I guess $175 or
$199 may not matter much for those going for the turbo version. >200 may
be too much though. If there is nothing easy to add I am happy with just
256MB vesrion of existing board.

The mmc slot would be handy for permanent root file system while still
having sdio or removable card option. True that you can add usb card
reader but this may increase power consumption when comparing to already
present mmc interface and having removable usb device for root
filesystem (for keeping sdio) is not ideal. Still it is not a must. OTOH
RAM is really something you cannot add easily and for desktop-like usage
or advanced multimedia usage where DSP or maybe 3d chip grabs big chunks
of memory for itself 128MB is not enough but 256MB may really improve
situation.

Frantisek

Bill Gatliff

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 12:18:33 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> V. Elishah Frey wrote:
>> It seems absolutely silly to me to integrate a battery or wifi or
>> bluetooth. What atracts me to the beagleboard is it's costamizability,
>
> Yes, I was thinking about perhaps additonal MMC slot or any other
> existing OMAP3 I/O currently missing for cost reasons. I guess $175 or
> $199 may not matter much for those going for the turbo version. >200 may
> be too much though. If there is nothing easy to add I am happy with just
> 256MB vesrion of existing board.

Heh, swap the SD slot for a micro-SD and I'm happier. That's a lot of
real-estate gained, who knows what someone could use the room for? :)

Frantisek Dufka

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 2:33:19 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Bill Gatliff wrote:
> Heh, swap the SD slot for a micro-SD and I'm happier. That's a lot of
> real-estate gained, who knows what someone could use the room for? :)

Well, one full SD slot is nice if there is any ready made slot at all.
You can't buy 32GB in microSD now and 16GB is just released with higher
price and lower speed (class 2). Perhaps microSD will always lag in
price/capacity/speed behing full SD.

The alternative is just ready to use SD/MMC pins without any socket.
That would be enough for me for second OMAP MMC interface. There are
pins on expansion socket that can be configured via mux registers as MMC
but I guess these are raw signals I cannot use for soldering sd card
directly. As I understand it there should be some voltage regulator chip
to set corect SD/MMC voltage (in 1.6-1.8V or 2.8-3.4 range) like the
Menelaus one [1] in N8x0. Such voltage regulator chip could fit the
$175-$199 space. Please correct me if I am wrong with this and I can in
fact attach second memory card directly.

Anyway, all this means changes so it is not REV C material. The first
baby step is to have second rev C board with just 256MB RAM in Q1/2009.
I definitely plan to get this one if Digi-Key allows me to buy it :-)

Frantisek


1.
http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-n800-mmc.c#48

Koen Kooi

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 3:58:14 AM10/17/08
to Beagle Board
On 17 okt, 01:19, Geof Cohler <g.coh...@computer.org> wrote:
> On the Special Adapter versus Special Cable issue...  The advantage of
> the Adapter is that it costs about $4 and then you can plug in the
> cable you already have that came with your monitor.  So I think you're
> right that the Rev C design will make it so that you must use a
> special $15 cable (HDMI-M to DVI-D-M) rather than a Special $4 Adapter
> plus a Standard Cable.  It's not the end of the world.

the 1.5 meter hdmi -> dvi cable cost me €3.50, which is about $5.

regards,

Koen

Bala Gajen

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 5:21:49 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Beagleboard is a development board and its not the final product. I think it's a good idea to provide only the IO pins accessible (for additional devices such as Bluetooth, wifi) for the developers. Otherwise developers will be limited to use their ideas.

 

Developers can then add additional hardware to the board, either by incorporating a readily available hardware (devices) or by designing their own bit of circuits.  Developers should suggest what pins should be accessible and what not (pins which are not important). So pins can be made available on new Rev Boards.

 

Making the LCD related pins accessible is a good move on Rev C.

 

In the case of developing their own circuits; This IO pins will helps developers to make their own expansion cards, for example Ethernet card. Developers should publish the expansion card designs to other developers so they can use it without re inventing the wheels. So we will end up having a set of expansion cards (Bluetooth card, wifi card, touch screen controller card etc). This will help us pick and choose what we need for our own project.

 

In this way developers can make their own working system. If its successful they could make their own single board beagle, incorporating all the expansion-card designs init.

 

Even though beagle is design to be used on multimedia applications nothing stops us from using it on other applications. So I would even remove Audio, Mic and S-Video connectors and use pin headers instead to save space. This space can be used to make additional omap pins accessible.

 

Requesting additional memory is good thing as we can not add these by ourselves. only a fraction of Nand is used so NAND memory can be smaller than 128mb. Apart form that I suggest the new board should have more IO pins, and headers for Audio and Video. SD card slot should be left as it can take different cards. As I said once a designs is finalized this slot can be changed to microSD, if that's what needed.

Johnny You 游文洲

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 6:16:47 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

I’ve install angstrom in the BB, it takes about 90MB of RAM to boot up. This means that I have only 30MB free memory. I think there is necessary to raise the RAM size and reduce the NAND for cost-down.

 

Btw, is there any other version of linux that takes less memory?

 

From: beagl...@googlegroups.com [mailto:beagl...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bala Gajen
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 5:22 PM
To: beagl...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [beagleboard] Re: REV C UPDATE

 

Beagleboard is a development board and its not the final product. I think it's a good idea to provide only the IO pins accessible (for additional devices such as Bluetooth, wifi) for the developers. Otherwise developers will be limited to use their ideas.

Koen Kooi

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 6:42:16 AM10/17/08
to Beagle Board
On 17 okt, 11:21, "Bala Gajen" <balaga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Beagleboard is a development board and its not the final product. I think
> it's a good idea to provide only the IO pins accessible (for additional
> devices such as Bluetooth, wifi) for the developers. Otherwise developers
> will be limited to use their ideas.

USB provides support for BT, wifi and wired ethernet.

regards,

Koen

Bala Gajen

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 7:27:41 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Yes Koen you are right.
 
BT, Wifi and Ethernet can use USB.
 
I think I have given the wrong examples there; I haven't studied the board and the omap datasheet properly. Someone mentioned that there are unimplemented OMAP pins in the beagle board (correct me if I am wrong). I can't say much without knowing more about these unimplemented pins. In the future a Developer may want to use these pins in their design.
 
If i am to add USB based devices to the project. I would probably develop my own USB hub circuit (If possible) and will use module based devices (can be directly mounted on the board, e.g BT module) to save space.
 
Not sure about a USB based touch screen controller, and infrared port. But if there facilities to implement these in OMAP directly (without using USB) then I would prefer that.
 
regards
 
Bala

Nishanth Menon

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 7:56:54 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
Bala Gajen said the following on 10/17/2008 06:27 AM:

> Yes Koen you are right.
>
> BT, Wifi and Ethernet can use USB.
>
> I think I have given the wrong examples there; I haven't studied the
> board and the omap datasheet properly. Someone mentioned that there
> are unimplemented OMAP pins in the beagle board (correct me if I am
> wrong). I can't say much without knowing more about these
> unimplemented pins. In the future a Developer may want to use these
> pins in their design.
>
> If i am to add USB based devices to the project. I would probably
> develop my own USB hub circuit (If possible) and will use module based
> devices (can be directly mounted on the board, e.g BT module) to save
> space.
>
> Not sure about a USB based touch screen controller, and infrared port.
> But if there facilities to implement these in OMAP directly (without
> using USB) then I would prefer that.
>
Beagle, Zoom MDK, EVM, SDP3430, Pandora. each of these provide various
benefits for the price point. For folks who need a board with
LCD,touchscreen(thru OMAP), etc.. there are zoom mdk, evm options.. for
folks who would like to play around with changing cameras and lcds every
so often, need serial/parallel and other exotic display, cameras etc..
there is the SDP.. omap is a 400odd pin chip, there are lots one can
play with, but one thing even on a development platform like SDP you
dont get is: every single feature OMAP has to offer. IMHO, 149$ is folks
like me can pay for a hobby project where i spend a few hours a week..

Beagle looses it's attractiveness if the cost crosses the 149$.. for the
idea of creating a "automobile like high end trim" of beagle with
features, it does not make much sense to me.. I gather the input from
this discussion could be: there is a need to have a bare board (IMHO
some other name other than beagle - call it bull dog or Dallas
//Chihuahua// or something) giving just expansion ports to plug in
custom displays, custom cameras, touchscreen, probably a non POP memory
in the form of a module and other stuff this chain has wishlisted....


Regards,
Nishanth Menon

Laurent Desnogues

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 8:14:21 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
I am all in favour of 256 MB of faster DRAM and less NAND at < $200.

I think there are two main categories of people: those who see it as
a low-priced
embedded board and those who see it as a nice small computer. For the second
category, to which I belong, 256 MB would be extremely nice (I would
even say it's
a requirement).

BTW it's not because you have plenty of RAM that you start doing
bloated software,
it's an education problem, and usually the need for more RAM arises
from software
you need/use rather than the other way around.


Laurent

Bill Gatliff

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 9:06:54 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

Oooh. Could we get some solder points for USBH, so that I can attach stuff to
the bus with something other than an ordinary cable?

kapare

unread,
Oct 16, 2008, 7:33:02 PM10/16/08
to Beagle Board
Don't go high our some will take your place ;)

http://www.hackszine.com/blog/archive/2008/10/linuxstamp_embedded_linux_syst.html?CMP=OTC-7G2N43923558

But the 256MB of RAM sound nice!

kap

David Goodenough

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 5:58:33 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com

The other interface missing on the current BeagleBoard is the Camera ISP.
I had hoped to be able to use the BeagleBoard as either just a development
board or a short run production board, but I need the Camera interface, so
I have had to look elsewhere.

David

David Goodenough

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 6:44:21 AM10/17/08
to beagl...@googlegroups.com
On Friday 17 October 2008, Johnny You 游文洲 wrote:
> I’ve install angstrom in the BB, it takes about 90MB of RAM to boot up.
> This means that I have only 30MB free memory. I think there is necessary to
> raise the RAM size and reduce the NAND for cost-down.
>
>
>
> Btw, is there any other version of linux that takes less memory?
Have you looked at OpenWrt? It can be run on machines with only a few
MB of both memory and NAND. There is even discussion on their forums
about doing the port, but the current thought is to await Rev C with its
USB port. Given that much of the OMAP 3530 support is already in the
kernel it should not be difficult.

David

Koen Kooi

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 10:51:13 AM10/17/08
to Beagle Board
On 17 okt, 12:16, Johnny You 游文洲 <92502...@cc.ncu.edu.tw> wrote:
> I've install angstrom in the BB, it takes about 90MB of RAM to boot up.
> This means that I have only 30MB free memory. I think there is necessary to
> raise the RAM size and reduce the NAND for cost-down.
>
> Btw, is there any other version of linux that takes less memory?

Linux only takes a few megabytes of memory, the rest is occupied by
userspace. So, no, there is no other version of linux that takes less
memory.
You can remove (and add) packages to the angstrom demo images using
opkg to suit your needs. Or you can build a custom image using
OpenEmbedded.

Jason Kridner

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 11:43:39 AM10/17/08
to Beagle Board
On Oct 14, 11:54 am, "Gerald Coley" <ger...@beagleboard.org> wrote:
> There is no conflict. As I said, this is a mock up to show the basic idea.
> This is not a picture of the board. You will be able to use both at the same
> time.

The converter spoken about is fixed and fat, such as
http://www.nextag.com/Phoenix-Gold-DVI-D-78293610/prices-html, not the
HDMI-to-DVI-D cables that we normally use. I think the concern is
valid and we need to understand if we can live with it.

>
> Gerald
>
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Felipe Contreras <
>
> felipe.contre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 7:01 PM, Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org>
> > wrote:
> > > Fellow Beaglers,
>
> > > We wanted to give you an update on the Rev C board. We have just finished
> > up
> > > the latest spin of the board, so we are running behind schedule. At this
> > > point we are looking at the middle of Q1 to get the Rev C out of
> > production.
>
> > > The key changes are as follows:
>
> > > 1) Addition of the USB Host port....We are moving this to Port 2 on the
> > > OMAP3530 instead of Port1. This allows us to align from a SW perspective
> > > with other platforms out there such as Pandora.
>
> > > 2) We have added access to the native LCD signals...This however came at
> > a
> > > price. We had to move the DVI-D connector to make room for a pair of
> > headers
> > > to provide access to the signals. This was a very painful change,
> > especially
> > > when coupled with the move to Port2 on the USB. It has taken us several
> > > weeks to get it worked in. We hated to move the DVI-D connector, but
> > there
> > > wasn't a way around it.
>
> > > I have attached a mockup of what the changes will look like in the area
> > > around the DVI-D connector to give you an idea of what the change will
> > look
> > > like.
>
> > > If you have any questions, please feel free to let us know.
>
> > Hmm, It looks like I won't be able to use both S-Video and DVI-D at
> > the same time, because the converter will cover that port.
>
> > --
> > Felipe Contreras
>
>

Jason Kridner

unread,
Oct 17, 2008, 11:49:53 AM10/17/08
to Beagle Board