Re: [beagleboard] What limits Beagle Board Black HDMI resolution

[Gerald Coley]

Well, this is the best the processor can do because of the 125MHz pixel clock. So, there is no SW fix.

Gerald

On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:05 AM, <ric...@aardvark.com.au> wrote:

The Beagle Board Black system reference manual rev  A5.2 says (in the HDMI section):

Currently the following resolutions are supported via the software:

 1280 x 1024

 1440 x 900

 1024 x 768

 1280 x 720

This is a bit disappointing because we don't have 1920 x 1080... arguable "full HD". I believe the current Raspberry Pie has more than 1920 x 1080.

Is this limit imposed by the hardware of the software? Are we expecting higher resolutions in future software releases?

Thnaks

Richard.

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[Måns Rullgård]

Gerald Coley <ger...@beagleboard.org> writes:

> Well, this is the best the processor can do because of the 125MHz pixel
> clock. So, there is no SW fix.

Can it output 1080p24? That uses the same clock as 720p60.

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Måns Rullgård
ma...@mansr.com

[Gerald Coley]

As far as I know, no.

Gerald

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[Vladimir Pantelic]

On 05/08/2013 12:05 PM, ric...@aardvark.com.au wrote:
> The Beagle Board Black system reference manual rev A5.2 says (in the
> HDMI section):
>
> Currently the following resolutions are supported via the software:
>  1280 x 1024
>  1440 x 900
>  1024 x 768
>  1280 x 720
>
> This is a bit disappointing because we don't have 1920 x 1080...
> arguable "full HD". I believe the current Raspberry Pie has more than
> 1920 x 1080.

note that even if the bone could output full HD, it does not have the
media capabilities of the raspberry pi. You cannot decode full HD video
on the bone anyway.

[Gerald Coley]

That is correct.

Gerald

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[Kunpeng Fan]

just buy a BBB and a micro hdmi adapter... so sad to hear this news.

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 6:05:24 PM UTC+8, ric...@aardvark.com.au wrote:

The Beagle Board Black system reference manual rev  A5.2 says (in the HDMI section):

Currently the following resolutions are supported via the software:

 1280 x 1024

 1440 x 900

 1024 x 768

 1280 x 720

This is a bit disappointing because we don't have 1920 x 1080... arguable "full HD". I believe the current Raspberry Pie has more than 1920 x 1080.

[Gerald Coley]

Well, just stay tuned.

Gerald

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[Vladimir Pantelic]

On 05/09/2013 05:14 PM, Kunpeng Fan wrote:
> just buy a BBB and a micro hdmi adapter... so sad to hear this news.

sad why? is 720p not enough for your use case? and again, the Beaglebone
does not play full HD video anyway.

>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 6:05:24 PM UTC+8, ric...@aardvark.com.au wrote:
>
> The Beagle Board Black system reference manual rev A5.2 says (in
> the HDMI section):
>
> Currently the following resolutions are supported via the software:
>  1280 x 1024
>  1440 x 900
>  1024 x 768
>  1280 x 720
>
> This is a bit disappointing because we don't have 1920 x 1080...
> arguable "full HD". I believe the current Raspberry Pie has more
> than 1920 x 1080.
> Is this limit imposed by the hardware of the software? Are we
> expecting higher resolutions in future software releases?
>
> Thnaks
>
> Richard.
>
>
>

[Teknoman117]

It does in fact work at 1080p24 under Robert C Nelson's Ubuntu 13.04 image.  My issue is dropping the resolution.  Anytime I try to use Xrandr or manipulating the xorg.conf file it just doesn't draw anything on my screen.

- Nathaniel Lewis

[Kunpeng Fan]

Really? I remembered it is a limitation of hardware...

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[Gerald Coley]

Really. It does work at 1920x1080@24. Note the @24 part. 

Gerald

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[David Anders]

the “maximum” resolution is directly related to maximum pixel clock of 85MHz with audio support. it supports any resolution as long as the pixel clock rate is less that 85MHz when audio is enabled. some examples are:

1280 x 1024 x 60Hz = 78643200 = 78.6MHz
1440 x 900 x 60Hz = 77760000 = 77.7MHz
1920 x 1080 x 30Hz = 62208000 = 62.2MHz

in practice all resolutions “that are supported” are listed with a 50Hz or 60Hz refresh rate. as you can see from the example calculations, you could support a framebuffer of 1920×1080 with low refresh rates, however when the linux kernel does an EDID read, it will select ones with the “standard” refresh rates.

(1920 x 1080 x 60Hz = 124416000 = 124.4MHz)

the beaglebone black can generate up to 125MHz clock for video, however to this leaves no bandwidth for audio to be multiplexed into the hdmi protocol.

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Wed, 22 May 2013, David Anders wrote:

> the “maximum” resolution is directly related to maximum pixel clock
> of 85MHz with audio support. it supports any resolution as long as
> the pixel clock rate is less that 85MHz when audio is enabled. some
> examples are:
>
> 1280 x 1024 x 60Hz = 78643200 = 78.6MHz
> 1440 x 900 x 60Hz = 77760000 = 77.7MHz
> 1920 x 1080 x 30Hz = 62208000 = 62.2MHz
>
> in practice all resolutions “that are supported” are listed with a
> 50Hz or 60Hz refresh rate. as you can see from the example
> calculations, you could support a framebuffer of 1920×1080 with low
> refresh rates, however when the linux kernel does an EDID read, it
> will select ones with the “standard” refresh rates.
>
> (1920 x 1080 x 60Hz = 124416000 = 124.4MHz)
>
> the beaglebone black can generate up to 125MHz clock for video,
> however to this leaves no bandwidth for audio to be multiplexed into
> the hdmi protocol.

so if i wanted full 1920 x 1080 x 60Hz and didn't care about audio,
what would i do? add the appropriate line in uEnv.txt? do i explicitly
need to state that i don't want audio?

rday

--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
========================================================================

[David Anders]

in theory - yes you would explicitly specify no audio and the desired resolution

in practicality - no , the code hasn't reached that level functionality, but will be adapted soon....

Dave

[David Anders]

as a side note, as it has been pointed out, even if you wanted to do 1080p, the bbb does not have the processing power to decode 1080p video....

Dave

[Nathaniel Lewis]

So we can't actually modify the resolution the bbb is drawing at yet?  It detects the screen at boot and that's what its stuck at?

- Nathaniel Lewis

--

[Gerald Coley]

You got it! Wasn't my idea! It has to do with the new and improved DRM driver for Linux. We had this ability under the 3.2 kernel on the BeagleBone. We are working on a couple of things to take care of this but it won't happen over night.

Gerald

[Ivan Nazarenko]

In this thread I saw three messages observing that the BBB will not decode 1080 video. Now we have four of them

It is not like everybory needs decoding 1080 video. Or any video at all.

But If I could get the image of the 3.1Mpix camera cape, and throw (part of) it to a 1920x1080 standard tv / monitor (no audio), this would be wonderful. I see the 1920x1080@24 with no audio as very interesting, and already have BBB and the camera cape.

ivann

[Jason Stapels]

Can you elaborate a bit on this?

Are you just reiterating that the BBB has no h264 hw accelerator? Or do you mean that even if you had a raw 1080p stream in "memory", that there's not enough bandwidth to push it into the framebuffer?

[Ivan Nazarenko]

I suppose they've said there is not enough processing power for decoding 1080p video. A quick seach shows that the SG530 in BBB would be limited to decoding 720x480@24.

[Nathaniel Lewis]

Considering that, is there any way to force it to boot up at a different resolution, say when building the kernel or something?  Because when I was using the Angstrom image that shipped on my BBB, it forced 1280x720, when I put Ubuntu on an uSD card, it booted to 1080p24

- Nathaniel Lewis

[Jason Stapels]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. The SGX530 can support up to a 2048x2048 framebuffer, however, it has no support for video decoding (despite saying it does, heh). Thus, the video decoding would have to be done by the ARM chip itself. 

[Ivan Nazarenko]

Whatever. My point is that there are users, myself included, who would like to have 1920x1080, without needing any audio or video decoding.

--

[Robert Nelson]

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Nathaniel Lewis
<linux.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Considering that, is there any way to force it to boot up at a different
> resolution, say when building the kernel or something? Because when I was
> using the Angstrom image that shipped on my BBB, it forced 1280x720, when I
> put Ubuntu on an uSD card, it booted to 1080p24
>
> - Nathaniel Lewis

The KMS [video=HDMI-A-1:1024x768@60] seems to be working for the BBB:

video=HDMI-A-1:1024x768@60

ubuntu@arm:~$ cat /proc/cmdline
console=ttyO0,115200n8 video=HDMI-A-1:1024x768@60 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2
ro rootfstype=ext4 rootwait fixrtc ip=
ubuntu@arm:~$ fbset

mode "1024x768"
geometry 1024 768 1024 768 16
timings 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
accel true
rgba 5/11,6/5,5/0,0/0
endmode

video=HDMI-A-1:800x600@60

ubuntu@arm:~$ cat /proc/cmdline
console=ttyO0,115200n8 video=HDMI-A-1:800x600@60 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2
ro rootfstype=ext4 rootwait fixrtc ip=
ubuntu@arm:~$ fbset

mode "800x600"
geometry 800 600 800 600 16
timings 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
accel true
rgba 5/11,6/5,5/0,0/0
endmode

Regards,

--
Robert Nelson
http://www.rcn-ee.com/

[Robert Nelson]

On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Robert Nelson <robert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Nathaniel Lewis
> <linux.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Considering that, is there any way to force it to boot up at a different
>> resolution, say when building the kernel or something? Because when I was
>> using the Angstrom image that shipped on my BBB, it forced 1280x720, when I
>> put Ubuntu on an uSD card, it booted to 1080p24
>>
>> - Nathaniel Lewis
>
> The KMS [video=HDMI-A-1:1024x768@60] seems to be working for the BBB:
>
> video=HDMI-A-1:1024x768@60

documented here-ish:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Kernel_Mode_Setting#Forcing_modes_and_EDID

[Vladimir Pantelic]

On 05/23/2013 06:00 PM, Ivan Nazarenko wrote:
> In this thread I saw three messages observing that the BBB will not
> decode 1080 video. Now we have four of them

here is a fifth :)

> It is not like everybory needs decoding 1080 video. Or any video at all.
>
> But If I could get the image of the 3.1Mpix camera cape, and throw (part
> of) it to a 1920x1080 standard tv / monitor (no audio), this would be
> wonderful. I see the 1920x1080@24 with no audio as very interesting, and
> already have BBB and the camera cape.

note that the HDMI framer is connected with 16 bits on the BBB, so you
get RGB565 only and not 24bit full color, that might impact the display
of your camera images :)

[Ivan Nazarenko]

Yes. Perhaps it isn't fit as a platform for presenting fine art photography of skies and sand dunes, but for capturing well lit images, processing it (opencv or something else), output it with automatic annotations, it is absolutely enough. I have already experimented with beagleXM and the MT9P031, and there we have RGB565 too. 

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[cbrie...@gmail.com]

I get picture, but its stretched beyond the screen and I only see 2 res options. The TV has the best setting I can set and I have tried to shrink the image and adjust it using the tv setting, but it did not work. How can I get it to fit the tv, Using Angstrom that came with device. Thanks

[Gerald Coley]

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We have anew image coming out tomorrow which may improve the situation. However, many TVs do stretch and overscans, something we cannot fix. This is discussed in the HDMI section on the support Wiki.

Gerald

[lykkega...@gmail.com]

Gerald, do you have a link for the new image?

 

/Michael

[Gerald Coley]

It is on the support Wiki as usual.

http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=Updating_The_Software#Procedure

Gerald

[draw...@gmail.com]

People, read your docs… According to the latest System Reference Manual, BBB added support for 1920x1080@24Hz resolution: https://github.com/CircuitCo/BeagleBone-Black/tree/master/BBB_SRM.pdf

6.10 HDMI Interface

The BeagleBone Black has an onboard HDMI framer that converts the LCD signals and audio signals to drive a HDMI monitor. The design uses an NXP TDA19988 HDMI Framer.

The following sections provide more detail into the design of this interface.

6.10.1 Supported Resolutions

The maximum resolution supported by the BeagleBone Black is 1280x1024 @ 60Hz. Table 9 below shows the supported resolutions. Not all resolutions may work on all monitors, but these have been tested and shown to work on at least one monitor. EDID is supported on the BeagleBone Black. Based on the EDID reading from the connected monitor, the highest compatible resolution is selected.

Table 9. HDMI Supported Monitor Resolutions

	RESOLUTION			AUDIO
800 x 600 @60Hz
800 x 600 @56Hz
640 x 480 @75Hz
640 x 480 @60Hz			YES
720 x 400 @70Hz
1280 x 1024 @75Hz
1024 x 768 @75Hz
1024 x 768 @70Hz
1024 x 768 @60Hz
800 x 600 @75Hz
800 x 600 @72Hz
720 x 480 @60Hz			YES
1280 x 720 @60Hz			YES
1920x1080@24Hz			YES

NOTE: The updated software image used on the Rev A5B board added support for 1920x1080@24HZ. 

[sri...@gmail.com]

Per above, it seemed that 1920x1080 was possible in the 50-60Hz range without audio.  Has the community been able to figure out a way to get that to work?

Thanks!

[Gerald Coley]

1920x1080@24HZ is the best it can do.

Gerald

[d...@donduper.com]

Great, now how does one specify a particular resolution and audio option upon startup?

[d...@donduper.com]

I'd like to refine my question to you Gerald...

How can I get 24-bit color with the BBB via either HDMI or LCD (assuming the LCD I wire up is a 24/32-bit color panel)?  I thought the TI spec indicated the BBB could drive true-color but all I can manage to get out of the BBB is 16-bit color regardless if I use HDMI or the LCD from 4D Systems.

[Gerald Coley]

All 24 bits are available on the expansion headers. I cannot speak for 4D systems as to how their board is designed and if they support 24b mode or not. 

HDMI only has 16 bits connected, so you cannot get 24b color on it.

Gerald

 

[d...@donduper.com]

Thanks Gerald,

I will have to confirm this by wiring up another LCD panel to the expansion headers.  It's unfortunate to learn that there is a 16-bit color limitation via HDMI output.  On the Raspberry Pi I can issue the "fbset -depth 24" bash command and the HDMI output switches to 24-bit color depth.  When I try that command on the BBB it returns with the error "ioctl FBIOPUT_VSCREENINFO: Invalid argument".  Only 8 and 16 work as valid bit depths with the BBB.

[Gerald Coley]

We did this for a reason. Our focus was expansion and due to the pin muxing, the extra 8 bits would wipe out a lot of functionality. Se we decided to make those easily accessible when connected to a monitor.

Gerald

[d...@donduper.com]

Higher color output through the HDMI connector uses up pins?

[Gerald Coley]

Yes. There are a certain amount of pins on the expansion headers. Each pin has up to 8 functions per pin. For each pin that is set to the HDMI function, the other 7 functions are no longer available to the expansion header when the HDMI is in use.  Some of these functions are some of the more popular functions. So, we went 16bit so those other function could be there for people to use and still have HDMI capabilities.

Gerald

[Cody Lacey]

Yes, looking at the board schematic, in order to use LCD_DATA16 - 23 (missing 8 bits) you would have to give up 6 GPIO's and 2 PWM's.

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:03 PM, <d...@donduper.com> wrote:

[Chip Estrada]

Sound like you need a Raspberry Pi. They have amazing video and the GPU kick butt over the BB capabilities.

[llips...@gmail.com]

We managed to get 1080p images running on the BeagleBone Black over HDMI.  It runs at 50Hz, and won't work with every monitor, but it's working on our 27" at the moment.

http://meural.com/hardware/HDMI_1080P

[jamesn...@gmail.com]

Does that mean I can use a resolution of 1280 *768 * 60Hz with a 720p Video on the BBB

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 at 10:46:02 PM UTC+1, David Anders wrote:

the “maximum” resolution is directly related to maximum pixel clock of 85MHz with audio support. it supports any resolution as long as the pixel clock rate is less that 85MHz when audio is enabled. some examples are:

1280 x 1024 x 60Hz = 78643200 = 78.6MHz
1440 x 900 x 60Hz = 77760000 = 77.7MHz
1920 x 1080 x 30Hz = 62208000 = 62.2MHz

in practice all resolutions “that are supported” are listed with a 50Hz or 60Hz refresh rate. as you can see from the example calculations, you could support a framebuffer of 1920×1080 with low refresh rates, however when the linux kernel does an EDID read, it will select ones with the “standard” refresh rates.

(1920 x 1080 x 60Hz = 124416000 = 124.4MHz)

the beaglebone black can generate up to 125MHz clock for video, however to this leaves no bandwidth for audio to be multiplexed into the hdmi protocol.

[micael....@gmail.com]

Den onsdag 22 maj 2013 kl. 23:51:06 UTC+2 skrev Robert P. J. Day:

> (1920 x 1080 x 60Hz = 124416000 = 124.4MHz)
>
> the beaglebone black can generate up to 125MHz clock for video,
> however to this leaves no bandwidth for audio to be multiplexed into
> the hdmi protocol.

  so if i wanted full 1920 x 1080 x 60Hz and didn't care about audio,
what would i do? add the appropriate line in uEnv.txt? do i explicitly
need to state that i don't want audio?

rday

Any updates on this? 

I have a simple web-browser application, which I'd like to run in 60Hz rather than the 24. We have no use for audio.

Cheers,

 Micael

[Gerald Coley]

You cannot do 60Hz. The processor will not support 60Hz.

http://www.elinux.org/Beagleboard:BeagleBoneBlack#BeagleBone_Black_Features

Gerald

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[John Syne]

Plug your numbers into this video timing calculator and you will see that given the AM3358 max pixel clock rate of 126MHz, you cannot do 60Hz.

http://www.fccps.cz/download/adv/frr/video_timings/video_timings.xls

Regards,

John