RE: On All Channels and Flipping Out/Finding Out About Stepper Motors and Wiring from Kysan 1124090 - 7565/Using the Replicape for my BBB

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Mala Dies

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Nov 14, 2019, 9:27:37 PM11/14/19
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Hello,

I think I already harassed the people at Replicape Slack channel too much about my singular concerns. Anyway, I am going to reach out here.

...

I have a (many) Kysan 1124090 - 7565 stepper motors. I am turning the PrintrBot 1403 into a BBB/Replicape build for fun. The fun just crossed me as an anger issue.

I will tell you why:

  • The Kysan steppers (most of their models) have from left to right:
    • Blue, Yellow, Green, Red
  • I have not found a code to go along w/ these wirings.
Okay, so...

I am using the Replicape on my BBB to turn this PrintrBot 3D Printer into a nice piece of machinery since I want to make the switch.

...

Does anyone know about these Kysan stepper motors and why the wiring on the motors is B, Y, G, R instead of Code 1 or another code? If so, which is probably a dated answer, please reply.

The motors are probably prior to 2011 when they were mfg. and sold. I have an older machine w/ the original steppers. They work! This is good news!

But...

  • For some reason:
    • The Replicape keeps making my motors whine and hiss. 
    • I am not blaming the Replicape or the people who mfg. this Cape for the BBB.
    • I like the Cape and I plan on keeping this Cape configured to my BBB for use w/ the PrintrBot until completion.
      • I plan on making a post about it one day b/c of PrintrBot fans and BBB fans. I know, fanaticism! 
  • So:
    • If you are reading this message and have some nice input, please do reply.
    • I sure could use some background info. on these motors while searching online for more info. on them.
Seth

P.S. I can control most of the steppers so far but they hiss like they want to attack. The endstops work too. I have two endstops and one inductive sensor, a 3D Printer build, and four steppers. 




Mala Dies

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Nov 14, 2019, 10:23:39 PM11/14/19
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Hello,

Once more...I did receive some advice on this issue w/ the stepper wiring issue I came across. The person told me that the motors might turn in the "wrong" direction after finding out about which two wires are connected to what coil.

...

So, if you are an avid user of 3D Printing products or a motor enthusiast, reply, add ideas, or just opine. 

Seth

P.S. I am sure there are more ideas circulating about the Replicape and steppers. 

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Nov 15, 2019, 11:49:55 AM11/15/19
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 18:27:37 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies
<functt-Re5JQEe...@public.gmane.org> wrote:


>
> - The Kysan steppers (most of their models) have from left to right:
> - Blue, Yellow, Green, Red
> - I have not found a code to go along w/ these wirings.
>

So take an ohm-meter to find out which pairs are connected to each
coil. Or...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1223/5992/files/Nema17StepperMotor.pdf?6848101445132525963

Red/Green and Yellow/Blue (small diagram in middle of page)

You may have to experiment to determine the phase needed for proper
direction control. See middle of
http://hobbycncaustralia.com/Instructions/iI9wirestepper.htm
or
https://lastminuteengineers.com/stepper-motor-l293d-arduino-tutorial/

It took less than 5 minutes to locate those sources with motors
matching your color list.

{Took me longer to catch that I'm having problems posting using my normal
scheme via gmane, and have to email replies around gmane to Google itself}
--
Dennis L Bieber

Mala Dies

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Nov 15, 2019, 8:41:04 PM11/15/19
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Hey Mr. Dennis,

I looked around online via google and those sites did not pop up. Besides that idea, get this! 

...

Only one side of the stepper is threaded, right. This threaded side is for machine screws to hold the stepper together, right. So...

  • First:
    • The machine w/ this specific, and the only of the four, stepper was mfg. (put together) w/ the machine screws on the incorrect side.
  • Second:
    • This made the machine barely able to hold itself together if it was not for, and get this, a STICKER!
The sticker that read Kysan 1124090 7565 was holding the stepper together.

Seth

P.S. I ordered some machine screws to handle what I thought would fix this issue but now it is modification time. I need to tap and use bigger machine screws for the other side of the stepper since they put the machine together like this:

threaded end -> screw in machine screw -> through the stepper -> to an end w/ no threads -> to another set of machine screws that just were placed in the stepper end w/out threads! Blah!

On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 10:49:55 AM UTC-6, Dennis Bieber wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 18:27:37 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies

Mala Dies

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Nov 15, 2019, 9:10:54 PM11/15/19
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Hey Sir,

Thank you for your reply. I told you all that mess before, the stepper issues w/ the machine screws and threaded parts, b/c it got in my way of testing for coils and getting my 3D Printer up and running w/ the Replicape and Redeem.

Seth

P.S. I will search those links you posted to view the data.


On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 10:49:55 AM UTC-6, Dennis Bieber wrote:
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 18:27:37 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Nov 15, 2019, 10:27:16 PM11/15/19
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On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 17:41:04 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies
<functt-Re5JQEe...@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>Hey Mr. Dennis,
>
>I looked around online via google and those sites did not pop up. Besides
>that idea, get this!
>
Google search
kysan stepper motor specs

second link was
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiV7NSm4-3lAhUBbKwKHRPcD60QFjADegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fultimachine.com%2Fproducts%2Fkysan-1124090-nema-17-stepper-motor&usg=AOvVaw1eKAxf-UJxUoSYRG1m3qU0
which has the link to a data sheet
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1223/5992/files/Nema17StepperMotor.pdf?6848101445132525963

The other two were found by scrolling the /images/ section of Google
looking for candidates with your color scheme, and then opening the related
web page for the image.

--
Dennis L Bieber

Mala Dies

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Nov 16, 2019, 11:05:22 PM11/16/19
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Hello Sir,

I am getting hit back to the fastener age right now. The stepper, since it was hanging on by a sticker (literally), needs to be completely sealed from outer debris and particles.

...

So, w/ this in mind, I am stuck finding a way to seal, fasten, and make the stepper work. Thank you for the links. I will review them shortly. "kysan stepper motor specs" worked, heh? I missed that one.

Seth

P.S. I am having to tap, fasten, and completely reassemble this motor. Fun...at times. Finding fasteners w/ the exact length...testing. Knowing it is all for the BBB and Replicape...unforgettable. Anyway, off to look up the cdn.shopify.com link. Thank you again, sir.


On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 9:27:16 PM UTC-6, Dennis Bieber wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 17:41:04 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies

Mala Dies

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Nov 16, 2019, 11:14:48 PM11/16/19
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Hey Sir,

Seth here. Look here: https://ultimachine.com/products/kysan-1124090-nema-17-stepper-motor. This is some co. selling these motors but they have a link on that page for the datasheet:

Kysan7565.PNG


Seth

P.S. That photo describes the issue or the cure. I will find out soon. Anyway, thank you for not giving up on me and my quest.


On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 9:27:16 PM UTC-6, Dennis Bieber wrote:
On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 17:41:04 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies

Mala Dies

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Nov 17, 2019, 7:16:48 PM11/17/19
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Hello Everyone,

If anyone is following along, look at these:

1. My wires are listed as:
  1. Blue
  2. Yellow
  3. Green
  4. Red
2. I think I can just switch out the Blue and Yellow wiring b/c of these:

TMC2100_Replicape.PNG

and...

A4982_Set_Up_for_Old_Board.PNG

Oh and:

Stepper_MotorY_Wiring_A4982.PNG

Thank you to anyone who participated. 

I needed support when I knew little. I figured out that b/c of how the drivers are set up, thank you jon_c, the old driver model was faulty in that the expectation for numbered wiring and enables were not needed any longer.

...

This is of course due to me, myself, and I. I took the old board apart and tried to plug and play w/ the Replicape which had completely different drivers. Yikes! I know I was goofing up.

Seth

P.S. Anyway...I think blue goes where yellow went and yellow goes where blue went. The listed photos helped me come to this summary on my way back down to the stone age. I say stone age b/c of things happening that were out of my control, e.g. steppers being held on by stickers and things like that idea made me "stone age" myself back in time.  

Mala Dies

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Nov 17, 2019, 7:37:33 PM11/17/19
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Hello,

Scratch that...

This is the wiring now:

To: TMC2100          From: A4982

1. Blue (A1)                   1. Blue (2B)
2. Green (B1)                2. Yellow (2A)
3. Yellow (A2)                3. Green (1B)
4. Red (B2)                   4. Red (1A)

Okay...now we are moving in current times!

Seth

Mala Dies

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Nov 17, 2019, 7:45:49 PM11/17/19
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Damn it...and I am sorry,

I think this is it:

To: TMC2100          From: A4982

1. Red (A1)                   1. Blue (2B)
2. Green (B1)                2. Yellow (2A)
3. Yellow (A2)                3. Green (1B)
4. Blue (B2)                   4. Red (1A)

Seth

P.S. I am messing up big time. So, everything needed adjusting, wire wise.

Shabaz Yousaf

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Nov 17, 2019, 8:08:18 PM11/17/19
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Seriously.. are you going to have to be the first 'junk mail' filter rule I'm going to have to implement for e-mails that I receive from the BeagleBoard forum?
The volume of e-mails was sensible in the past.
What do all the e-mails from you below have to do with the Beaglebone?


From: beagl...@googlegroups.com <beagl...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mala Dies <fun...@gmail.com>
Sent: 18 November 2019 00:45
To: BeagleBoard <beagl...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [beagleboard] Re: On All Channels and Flipping Out/Finding Out About Stepper Motors and Wiring from Kysan 1124090 - 7565/Using the Replicape for my BBB
 
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Mala Dies

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Nov 17, 2019, 8:25:06 PM11/17/19
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BBB and Replicape!

Seth
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to beagl...@googlegroups.com.

Mala Dies

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Nov 17, 2019, 8:28:00 PM11/17/19
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Here is the answer!

Seth

TMC2100_FROM_A.jpg

Mark Lazarewicz

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Nov 17, 2019, 8:59:24 PM11/17/19
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You should try chicken wire or duck tape to hold your motor together

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Nov 18, 2019, 2:11:21 PM11/18/19
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On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:25:06 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies
<functt-Re5JQEe...@public.gmane.org> wrote:

>BBB and Replicape!
>
Except they have nothing to do with using the BBB or cape themselves --
they are all external parts wiring, and you are basically posting (and
quoting) every idea you have with regards to such wiring. We don't really
care that you have a motor that was improperly manufactured -- that's
between you and the place you got the motor.

It's a stepper motor with four wires... If all the wires were the same
color, there are only 4*3*2*1 => 24 ways you can connect that motor.

At 5 minutes per test, it would only take a maximum of 2 hours to find
the correct setup. There are two ways each coil could be wired (call them
positive and negative phase), and two pairs for the coils A/B or B/A.

--
Dennis L Bieber

Mala Dies

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Nov 18, 2019, 7:38:25 PM11/18/19
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Hey Sir,

Seth here. I was setting up a tutorial on changing out the PrintrBoard Rev. D/CURA to a BBB and Replicape/Redeem/OctoPrint set up on some site online...

...

Anyway...I guess you are right. Those ideas had nothing to do w/ the BBB in the short term. I guess I should not share or divulge info. in case others are 
going through the same thing as me. I really do not know how popular the BBB is these days or if the Replicape is popular but I am enjoying learning on both.

...

I think I started a discussion instead of looking for assistance but thank you all for pointing out what an absolute annoyance I am!

Seth

P.S. I will apologize. I, Seth, am sorry for posting exciting information for people using the Replicape, BBB, and changing out their 3D Printer controller w/ said hardware.


On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 1:11:21 PM UTC-6, Dennis Bieber wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:25:06 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Nov 18, 2019, 11:16:41 PM11/18/19
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On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:38:25 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies
<functt-Re5JQEe...@public.gmane.org> wrote:


>
>Anyway...I guess you are right. Those ideas had nothing to do w/ the BBB in
>the short term. I guess I should not share or divulge info. in case others
>are
>going through the same thing as me. I really do not know how popular the
>BBB is these days or if the Replicape is popular but I am enjoying learning
>on both.
>
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/uncle-chucks-3d-printer-stuff
might be more suited for the hardware side that you've been having problems
with. I don't know -- I don't intend to wrestle with GoogleGroups highly
unintuitive interface and that group doesn't seem to be duplicated on
gmane.

>
>P.S. I will apologize. I, Seth, am sorry for posting exciting information
>for people using the Replicape, BBB, and changing out their 3D Printer
>controller w/ said hardware.
>

If it were "exciting information" I doubt there would be a level of
annoyance... But "I tried connecting this way -- it's not working" "I
changed to these connections -- still not working", etc. gets stale real
fast (especially when you never trim quoted material, so the same stuff
gets posted over and over).

"Exciting information" would have been a post of
-=-=-=-
I've converted <xyz> 3D printer to use the BBB and Replicape.

This is what I had to do to get it connected...

<write up of what wires had to go where, custom configuration files
created, etc.>

This is a comparison of how the printer behaved before conversion and
after conversion when creating a simple object...

<write up of timings, motor positioning accuracy, whatever is
significant>
-=-=-=-

Descriptions of mis-assembled motors is really only significant if you
can show that a majority of these motors were released with the same flaw,
with a description of how to correct that motor.

One post asking for help on confusing wiring is reasonable.


Just look at your subject line on the thread... "replicape" and "BBB"
are so far to the right that many classic news clients (I read the group
via gmane's NNTP server -- and used to post via it until Google started
rejecting the posts, now I have to remember to "reply by email" and set the
correct Google group name as the "TO" field). For example, in the list of
messages, what shows up as subjects for me is just

"Re: On All Channels and Flipping Out/Finding O"

which doesn't really provide any thing to encourage one to read the thread.


FYI: it looks like the Replicape is becoming a defunct product...
https://www.thing-printer.com/revolve/ includes the processor on-board...
<G> Seeed Studio still has it in stock though.
--
Dennis L Bieber

Mala Dies

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Nov 18, 2019, 11:44:47 PM11/18/19
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Hello,

Forget all that mess. I got the stepper(s) tested and the coils match up but the red and green wires for the first coil need to be switched for the TMC2100 drivers that are on the Replicape. Although, they, the people behind the Replicape, are leaning on updated boards, one fellow said he would still support the Replicape.

...

I am guessing that this will only last so long of a period before they get swamped w/ new customers and have to support only their board and not the Cape. Who knows, really?

Seth

P.S. I do appreciate support at times but all the etiquette lessons need to stop. I prefer discussions on subjects. I mean this idea holds true; everything is not up front. Anyway, thank you. 

 

On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 10:16:41 PM UTC-6, Dennis Bieber wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:38:25 -0800 (PST), in
gmane.comp.hardware.beagleboard.user Mala Dies

Shabaz Yousaf

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Nov 19, 2019, 8:26:56 AM11/19/19
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I've got dozens of e-mails from "Mala Dies" via BeagleBoard in the past few weeks. Your message below looks like verbal diarrhoea in written form.
Microsoft's server thinks so too - it is now automatically dumping some of them into the junk folder, before I've even created a unique rule explicitly for you.



Sent: 19 November 2019 04:44

To: BeagleBoard <beagl...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [beagleboard] Re: On All Channels and Flipping Out/Finding Out About Stepper Motors and Wiring from Kysan 1124090 - 7565/Using the Replicape for my BBB
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Mala Dies

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Nov 30, 2019, 11:38:38 PM11/30/19
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Hello Again,

The Replicape people are diverting their attention to, yes to me being a tell-all, some other forms of software for 3D Printing right now. I think this is a fact but I could be wrong. 

...

Outside of that idea, my motor got tapped and drilled but not in that order. 

It did not work out. So, you all will no longer hear anymore about that Uncle Billie 3D Printing espionage crud. Otay.

Seth

P.S. I got a new motor, a stepper in fact, and it does its work on the BBB and the Replicape. Enjoy your life and the people around you. Thank you for the feedback. Signing off for now. See ya!

Mala Dies

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May 25, 2020, 4:26:19 PM5/25/20
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Hello,

I am done w/ my replicape for now. I have not been paying any attention to what the Replicape people have been doing w/ the source for the hardware and thus for now, I am clueless (as usual).

Seth
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