[PLEASE READ] BBCh #5 - Crit planning

[Naveen John]

Hey All,

Reality check: 6 days to go! Suraj has pretty much sealed the deal on the course. He's having a meeting with Bhartiya guys to iron out some details! Course surface and safety is kick-ass. We just have to get the rest of it bang-on.

RACE DETAILS

-Date: Sunday, June 16th

-Location: Bhartiya City, Thanisandra Main Road, Chokkanahalli, Bangalore

-Start time: TBD, tentatively 7a

-Race schedule (duration, primes): 

1. Cat 2+Women (45min+3 laps, 2 primes)

2. U-18 boys+girls (30min+3 laps, 1 prime)

3. Cat 1 (1hr+3 laps, 3 primes)

PRE-RACE

-Modi: Moday, June 10th, open registration on BBCh.in

-Adi TVM: Bib numbers, indemnity forms, Digital banners for FB, web, email and buzzintown (for Ajith), get standie from Mary

Rohan: Podium prizes, sponsors, Tees for volunteers (~20-25), primes (6), podium

-Ajith: buzzintown listing, past crit photos, needs write-up (Venky?), digital banners (Adi TVM)

-Mary (Leapstart): Standie (to Adi TVM), marketing Leapstart (w/ Santosh)

-Santosh: Race Director, volunteer coordinator, communicate with Mary re: Leapstart marketing (with Suraj)

-Naveen: Course recce on bicycle, decide on possibility of corners, location of course marshalls

-Akshay: Food - bananas, water, biscuits, electral, chiki for 150+ people (racers+support), talk to Suraj about Bhartiya City footing the event hospitality bill?

-Suraj: Course location, Bhartiya City-BBCh liason, DRIVE U-18 HARD!, Leapstart (communicate with Santosh and Mary)

-Karan: Repair megaphone, medals (3 cat1, 3 cat2, 3 women, 3 U-18boys, 3 U-18girls), Nephrolife ambulance

-Kiran: Disco Dewanee volunteers (?)

RACE DAY

-Rohan: transport podium, food, race paraphanelia

-Akshay: Racer hospitality tent, make sure food shows up to race venue!

-2 volunteers: registration desk, set-up caution tape queues

-1 volunteer: race-day announcements, pre-race safety briefing, awards ceremony

-8-10 volunteers: course marshalling

-Photogs: RollingShutterz, Veloscope, others

-Vasu: Race ref, timimg, track of lapped riders (use volunteers)

-Arvind G: Timimg, track of lapped riders (use volunteers)

MISC

-Pens for registration

-Lap counter - chalk board + chalk

-Megaphone for prime laps and bell lap (last lap)

-Traffic cones to make sharp corners

-Poles and caution tape for registration queues

-Standies

Cheers

N

Naveen John
BSEE | School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Purdue University | Class of 2011
navee...@gmail.com | +91 8892039222

[Deepthi Indukuri]

Would there be a Kiddies Race?? 

[modi]

Done I'll open the registration tomorrow.

[Rohan Kini]

Chiddu, Kiddys race?

Naveen, someone else needs to take the stuff from BOTS this time around. Dont think Ill have a car.

~ROhan

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[modi]

The registrations are open and set

https://sites.google.com/a/bangalorebicyclechampionships.com/registrations/

I've set up the registration site and the emails that are sent out while you register. If someone can give me a good copy / content for the email i can plug that in.

Note: You can register using either Google chrome / firefox. In IE the registration application doenst work. While you make announcements to register please add a note saying users to register using chrome / firefox. 

-modi

[modi]

how come the announcements is still not made?

Its already tuesday in bangalore, 5 more days? The registrations is setup. 

If you guys need help / need me to make the announcement on FB and BBC let me know. 

-modi

[Nalla P Konar]

Buddies, what is the lap distance?
So first Cat 2 & women start, then U18 & then Cat 1 right?
Gosh, we got to stick to time properly else will be late.

[Naveen John]

About a mile is what Suraj had guestimated. I'm scoping out the course tomorrow and I'll post up. I'll be taking some core samples and air quality measurements also for all the course data junkies out there :)))

-N

Naveen John
BSEE | School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Purdue University | Class of 2011
navee...@gmail.com | +91 8892039222

[Deepthi Indukuri]

Nj wat time u planning to go chk the route tmrw??

On 11 Jun 2013 17:35, "Kiran Kumar Raju" <Kiran...@mantri.in> wrote:

Hey All,

 

Volunteers from dod may vary from 3 to 5, I can confirm the exact no: by Friday.

Please copy a mail for me on nariku...@gmail.com henceforth and not Kiran...@mantri.in

 

 

With Best Regards, K. Kiran Kumar Raju Sr.Engineer – PMC(Planning) -- Mantri Developers Pvt. Ltd.  Mantri Glades, Next to Wipro Corporate Office Khatha #5(Sy # 82/1, 82/2, 82/3, 79/5), Sarjapur Road, Doddakanalli Village, Bellandur sub-Divn. Mahadevpura Zone, Bangalore 560 034 -- M +917760983868 -- www.mantri.in

Disclaimer:

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[Naveen John]

Hey Deepthi,

Suraj and I are leaving from Mekhri Circle at 6am tomorrow to get check out the course.

And, to racers, the course is free to be reconned on bicycles from 7-9a. If you do decide to check it out, please be respectful of the timings. BTW, directions: http://goo.gl/maps/NxrJu

-NJ

Naveen John
BSEE | School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Purdue University | Class of 2011
navee...@gmail.com | +91 8892039222

[Nalla P Konar]

That's great to hear, no traffic at all :) . It's a residential area right? Then do we have lots of speed breakers?
Since it's a lap, windy does not matter much as head winds will become tail winds too.

[Karan Bhuta]

Breakers are there but pretty well made and flat, you will in the video tomo. 

Regards 

Karan 

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 7:50 PM, Nalla P Konar <nalla...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's great to hear, no traffic at all :) . It's a residential area right? Then do we have lots of speed breakers?
Since it's a lap, windy does not matter much as head winds will become tail winds too.

--

[Naveen John]

Hey folks! 

Karan and I will be hosting a Volunteer meeting at BOTS on Saturday, June 15th at 12 noon. We NEED volunteer support to help pull off a safe race, so please come out and attend the meeting if you can. We'll designate the volunteers who show us on Saturday as volunteer coordinators. We'll need: 

1. 2 people to head Safety 

2. 1 for Racer hospitality

3. 1 for Parking 

4. 1 for the Awards presentation

5. 1 to run Registration desk

Naveen John
BSEE | School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Purdue University | Class of 2011
navee...@gmail.com | +91 8892039222

[Deepthi Indukuri]

Adding in: We will also need help at the finish line??? 

[Arvind Ganesh]

You also need volunteers along the course to pull riders off when they get lapped. May be a good idea to post on BBCh calling for volunteers.

-Arvind

[Deepthi Indukuri]

Call for Volunteers is already posted.. 

[Arvind Ganesh]

Has anyone contacted the registered volunteers yet? There are 15 folks registered! 

-Arvind

[Naveen John]

We just concluded with the volunteer meeting. We had 10 people show up and we assigned race day responsibilities. We should have at least 17 volunteers on race day. I'll send out an email with finalities.

-NJ

Naveen John
BSEE | School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Purdue University | Class of 2011
navee...@gmail.com | +91 8892039222

[modi]

No points for crit, dh and TTT.

On 15 Jun 2013 01:37, "Balu BLR" <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

How Race points are calculated for tomorrow race ?

there will be points assigned for any rider or not ? Last crit in manyata no points were assigned for any rider....

-Balu

[Venkatesh N]

No individual points for TTT makes sense. But why not for DH and crit? That's how we decided the championship last year, right? Remember, it was the points Naveen Raj earned in crit that took him ahead of Siddarth in last year's championship? Otherwise, Sid should have been the champion last year.

If the riders who got lapped won't get any points is what you mean, then that absolutely makes sense and that's what we did last year too, I think.

[Nalla P Konar]

Modi, last year Cat2 didnt get points due to manpower issues, Cat1 did get & hence Naveen overtook Sid.

This time as well same reason? we had a lot of volunteers this time.

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[modi]

How will you give points to both the cat's when they start separately?

The points are ordered on time or finish order. Now how are you going to determine that in a crit when all the cat's start separately?

You can give points to cat 1 and women but no one else apart from them.  is that fair?

[Venkatesh N]

Sounds fair to me.

[modi]

No

Nobody is assigned points.

On 16 Jun 2013 21:12, "Balu BLR" <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, I missed lot of discussion about points...

So, only Cat1 and women gets points for yesterday race!!!

It is concluded for Crit, what about DH & TTT? as Venky said it makes sense if no individual points for TTT.

-Balu

[Venkatesh N]

Modi,

Can you please clarify what you meant by "Nobody is assigned points"? Do you mean for TTT or for the crit and DH as well?

If it is no individual points for TTT which is what we did last year, it is fine. But if that statement is meant to cover Crit, this needs further discussion. I seemed to have missed when this was decided and announced before.

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Rohan Kini]

TTT is sorted - its a team event and no points.

DH - our thinking was that its almost a completely different category (XC vs Downhill)

Typically requires specific equipment, skills, training and mindset.

I know a few folks who attempted DH primarily to keep their points last year - dangerous.

Maybe we can have a quick discussion about this if folks have a different take on this. We need to publish this earlier than later as the next race is DH.

Crit - the challenge is that its not a mass start and our pointing system depends on the order in which folks finish.

Looks like the decision for this was no points.

The rules need to be updated and its time to do this - http://www.bangalorebicyclechampionships.com/inside-bbch/rules-and-regulations/

Regards,

ROhan

stay in touch: 

~ www.bumsonthesaddle.com

[Venkatesh N]

We can announce whatever we decide for the DH.

But not announcing that the Crit race will take no points and now saying that it will not carry any points doesn't look very good. Especially since we have a precedent in last year's crit where we gave points to Cat1 and women and decided the championship based on that no less. Just looks like we are making out rules on the fly.

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Venkatesh N]

If it is not already clear two of the main contenders for Men's and Women's over all tarmac championships did well to eliminate their competition in this race. So, why should they lose out on their hard earned points is my question. It is just not a chance to pose with the shield any more and things like ticket to TFN are involved. People are going to raise a voice or two if rules are coming out after the fact.

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[modi]

hmm..

It wasnt made on the fly.

I remember quite well last year the screw up that happened for the crit. One of the reasons whey the points were not published for the last race. 

This was certainly decided at the start of the year. Maybe i missed calling this out. If you guys decide how points can be given. please go ahead. This would be on the fly!!

-modi

[Venkatesh N]

Modi,

If it was decided and was not communicated, comes out now, how does it look? If it was a goof up last year, as you say, it should have been clearly outlined when we drafted rules at the start of this year. I was involved in updating that document and no one told anything about that.

Anyway, since this is BOTS Racing program now, you guys can decide whatever needs to be done and do it.

I'm out of here. Thanks!

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Rohan Kini]

IMO, I think we need to do this the right way rather than look at what we did last year.

Im sure some of you have an answer to this - what would be the best way to award points? 

What I mentioned earlier was the difficulty that Modi was pointing out. Not that thats the way to do it.

We just need to decide quick :)

~ROhan

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Balu BLR <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

Rohan/Modi,

rules about points was not communicated earlier (crit), remember team boys are coming all the way from different cities to participate here and it involves money.

-Balu

[Rohan Kini]

Hey Balu,

Sorry - looks like I missed out your email in the thread. Yup - looks like we would need to keep that race document updated once we decide on something. Its not been updated after the stonehill incident.

There was a discussion about the points before the race and I just went thru the thread and the conclusion was that there was no points to be awarded for the Crit. Why are we digging this back up now?

Unless some one has a great idea on how to solve the problem of how to hand out points (the way we award points) to a non-mass start race lets stick to what we had decided on and move onto the next race.

~ROhan

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Balu BLR <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

Rohan/Modi,

rules about points was not communicated earlier (crit), remember team boys are coming all the way from different cities to participate here and it involves money.

-Balu

[Venkatesh N]

The discussion is actually in progress. Because the conclusion(?) or rather the answer came after the race and nothing was announced before hand.

[modi]

IMHO

We should be giving points to Cat 1  & women - order of finish.

Since there was a Cat 2 and U18 race as well. We need to assign them points for completion or winning. How do we do that? Or are we complicating too much of this?

FYI - Going back to the start of the year - The decisions that were made 

We had to overhaul the entire points system and category. We wanted to separate each Cat without rider Cat upgrade in a season. 

This year the plan was there to disallow category upgrade mid season but since this rule was shot down by the community and others within, we fell back to our old system of points and it was decided that for Crit, DH and TTT (obviously) there would be no individual points. Because with the current points system, it would be impossible to calculate points for categories even if we note down their timing, because the field is completely different for each category starts. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-modi

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Balu BLR <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

I flagged this question before race, but discussion started after race.

-Balu

[modi]

I think what we should do is

correct me otherwise

Since in Cat 1 only 3 finished, only those 3 get the points. Same goes for women. All the other categories we assign 3 points for whoever finished. Like if in Cat 2 - 5 finished give 3 points to each. 

-modi

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Balu BLR <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

@modi,

Makes sense, but points for all lapped riders also ? (not sure if we
have list though)


-Balu

On 6/17/13, modi <modi....@gmail.com> wrote:
> IMHO
>
> We should be giving points to Cat 1  & women - order of finish.
>
> Since there was a Cat 2 and U18 race as well. We need to assign them points
> for completion or winning. How do we do that? Or are we complicating too
> much of this?
>

> *FYI - Going back to the start of the year - The decisions that were made *

>>>>>>>>> http://www.*
>>>>>>>>> *bangalorebicyclechampionships.**com/inside-bbch/rules-and-**
>>>>>>>>> regulations/<http://www.bangalorebicyclechampionships.com/inside-bbch/rules-and-regulations/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> ROhan
>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> stay in touch: *
>>>>>>>>> *~ www.bumsonthesaddle.com*

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/**cleatedwarriors<http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors>for

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to bbch13+un...@**

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> googlegroups.com.
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/**
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Venky
>>>>>>>>>> govenkygo.com <http://www.govenkygo.com/>

>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Team BBCh 13" group.
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>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Venky
>>>>>>>> govenkygo.com <http://www.govenkygo.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Venky
>>>>>> govenkygo.com <http://www.govenkygo.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>

[Arvind Ganesh]

Sorry guys, we only tracked podium positions. Finding finishers for Cat2 is going to be a problem - we only know top 4. Not a problem for other categories since all got lapped.

-Arvind

[Venkatesh N]

I think with what Modi suggested below should work.

Isn't it possible to find the cat2 finishers from the video footage? Not more than 30 participants and a few on MTBs got lapped pretty quickly I think. IMO, looking at the footage of 45 mins to see who completed how many laps and making out who got lapped and who finished the race without getting lapped should be possible. At least finding top 10-15 is quite possible.

After finding the Cat2 finishers we can either give 3 points each. Another possibility could be, the cat2 podium guys can be given points starting from what a Cat1 4th,5th,6th place finishers would get etc and so on. After that rest could be given 3 points each. Just a suggestion.

Either way, Cat1 and Women finishers should get their points as only they get effected in the championship standings in a big way.   

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:07 AM, modi <modi....@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Venkatesh N]

Yes, sticking to Modi's suggestion makes sense then.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Balu BLR <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

@Venky:

I think, its better we assign points to Cat1 and Women for this race.

Assigning high points to cat2 & U18 riders is bad idea (unless we assign 3 points only) since, it will affect Cat1 riders championship overall rank.

-Balu

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Arvind Ganesh]

Sorry Venky, we only have the last 15 minutes of the Cat2 race on video.

-Arvind

[Venkatesh N]

Balu points is your responsibility as per our initial discussion at BOTS.

Modi, as someone responsible for it before, has provided his inputs as have a few more of us. It is up to you, I think. Your suggestion above might be the best we can do at the moment.

We have to further document these things and ensure that such confusions don't repeat in the future, if we happen to continue this points system in the future. I think we should not.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Balu BLR <sbk....@gmail.com> wrote:

Any conclusion ?

As Modi said, lets assign points to Cat1 & Women riders

Remaining Cat2 and U18 riders - gets 3 points each (podium guys, as we don't have complete finisher list)

-Balu

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com