Race #6 - Downhill thread

[Rohan Kini]

Hey Folks,

We were thinking of new categorization for the downhill race.

Last year we upped the safety/technical aspect by focussing on hard core downhill riders, full face helmets etc.

This year we are thinking of adding a not-as-technical section to the race so that we can build the base of aspiring downhill riders.

Category Thoughts

Course A - Technical Downhill (Turahalli downhill)

1. Full suspension downhill - only full suspension bikes
   
2. Open - everyone else (men, women, kids)
   

Course B - Not-so-technical Downhill

1. Open
   
2. Women's
   
3. U18

How categories are decided

1. UCI regulations for downhill to be studied and implemented - Karan/Aditya/Nelly
   
2. Full suspension bike to be further qualified - are all mountain bikes qualified to ride course A or is it just downhill bikes?

Any thoughts?

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

Hey Rohan,
Sounds interesting man, few questions which i am asking inline,

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Rohan Kini <rohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Folks,

We were thinking of new categorization for the downhill race.

Last year we upped the safety/technical aspect by focussing on hard core downhill riders, full face helmets etc.

This year we are thinking of adding a not-as-technical section to the race so that we can build the base of aspiring downhill riders.

Category Thoughts

Course A - Technical Downhill (Turahalli downhill)

1. Full suspension downhill - only full suspension bikes
   
2. Open - everyone else (men, women, kids)
   

[Nalla] Does this 2nd point of Open category also means it has to be on full sus bikes?

Course B - Not-so-technical Downhill

1. Open
   
2. Women's
   
3. U18

How categories are decided

1. UCI regulations for downhill to be studied and implemented - Karan/Aditya/Nelly
   
2. Full suspension bike to be further qualified - are all mountain bikes qualified to ride course A or is it just downhill bikes?

[Nalla] This is kind of tricky, there are cheap full sus bikes like Hercules MTB, etc, those bikes will then get to ride Course A whereas higher end hardtails wont :( Do we really need to enforce this rule? Even if we mandate only proper DH bikes, there wont be many in this category then. 

Any thoughts?

[Nalla] Also do we enforce X no. of practice sessions as qualification for race like we did last year?

~ROhan

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[Karan Bhuta]

Hey Nalla, 

For Explanation please consider the following lines- 

There are two courses based on skill level of the course itself.

   - Course A- Being the more technically challenging course for higher skilled riders.   

   - Course B- Being the less technical of the two courses, for all riders.  

As a rider you can choose to be in any category apart from the obvious stuff like gender, age, etc. 

The Full Suspension Downhill bikes - UCI regulated, ALL Mountain/ Downhill bikes. 

The rest of the categories are any bike which would be safe on the track meaning you can use a hercules, bsa as long as they can hold up through the course. 

Also as a rider you pick which cot you want to fit into other than the Full Sus. 

Also in terms of the practice sessions 

for Course A - 3 Rides compulsory 

for Course B - 1 Ride compulsory   

Please tell me if this is still confusing. 

Regards 

Karan         

[Nalla P Konar]

Thanks Karan,
So Course A doesnt necessarily mean that you need full sus, DH bike? we can ride on HardTail as well right?

Also regarding practice rides, can the 3 compulsory ones be done in say 1 day itself or is there a per day limit ? We can clarify these when we send out notification so that we dont get such queries from racers. I assume its about the ride after all,

Again no standing points for DH race right?

 

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Rohan Kini]

No reply! Sorry Nalla.

Course A has two categories - Full suspension and open. The "open" category is for folks on hardtails. 

Its pretty much the same technical race route but the categories depend on the bike.

Practice rides - 3 runs for course A and 1 run for course B.

We have 3 practice days - 1 weekend before race day and the Saturday before race day.

Full face helmets mandatory for Course A. Full face helmets recommended for Course B

No points for DH.

Can anyone poke any loopholes in this? Nalla, does this come across better? If not please continue asking questions and lets clarify it!

Karan, Nelly, Aditya and a few others have been working on the route and should have more details about this soon.

Have added them onto this list to see if they can throw more light on the race route.

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

Thanks Rohan, Karan had already clarified. He had replied to me instead of Reply All :)

So this time also we will have a qualifying round first to time and then send the racers accordingly as per their time for actual race?

Sounds all set, lets rock the DH :)

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Rohan Kini]

Super.

Yup - atleast for Course A.

Not sure what numbers we will see in Course B. If its huge and if the track is the same we might have to skip qualifying for Course B to save some time. On the flip side we run qualifying for Course B too but the race might run for much longer.

[Nalla P Konar]

Buddies,
Nelly got a point there. Points will ensure you have good participation from contenders for the years Standings.

Nelly, issuing point has been tricky situation for different Categories that we have :( I guess thats what is gating this.

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:54 PM, nilesh dhumal <nilesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, 

Why no points for DH?

--
Nilesh N Dhumal

www.procycle.in

[modi]

Its a specialized set of racing apart from tarmac and dirt/XC. Last year people came over for the race just to get those 5/ 10 extra points to stay ahead in the championship.Just too risky.

Maybe we should have a DH race every quater(4seasons) and assign points and run it as a separate series altogether.

Issuing points isn't tough but the risk factor is too high.

[Rohan Kini]

We have a less-technical course this year to ensure everyone can participate and start enjoying DH as a sport. It would have been great to keep the DH race also as a part of the overall championship standings.

But for this we will need to keep the same technical course or/and work with the existing Cat 1 or Cat 2 categories. 

We are going to have the same issue with TTT. Basically different race format that is tricky to squeeze in points for the overall championships.

~ROhan

[Balu BLR]

finally am part of BBCh2013 group :P

@Rohan/Karan:

does this mean there will be 5 different categories and 5 podiums for these 5 cat ?

"Course A - Technical Downhill (Turahalli downhill)

1. Full suspension downhill - only full suspension bikes
   
2. Open - everyone else (men, women, kids)
   

Course B - Not-so-technical Downhill

1. Open
   
2. Women's
   
3. U18

"

Also, just to clarify - no points for DH race ?

-Balu

[Rohan Kini]

Yup - just added you :) 

Yup. 5 categories & 5 Podiums.

Points - it would be awesome to have points for the DH race.

Dont think we can do it with these new categories though. The only way we can run points is to stick to our existing category setup and one race route.

So points for DH vs having new categories 

- points for DH gets us points contributing for overall championships.

- new categories will get more folks giving DH a shot and build the base of folks attempting DH as a sport in a safe manner

~ROhan

[Rohan Kini]

Bump.

Any thoughts/recommendations on the points for DH race or do we go ahead with no points, new categories and two race routes.

Need to wrap this up latest by today so that we can start talking about it this week. The mandatory practice runs need to start the coming weekend.

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

Nelly bro, agreed. We need points to make it competitive. We have been discussing this already for sometime now.
Let's try to keep it simple for points if it's getting difficult to manage for various categories.
Rgds,
Nalla.

On Jul 11, 2013 9:14 PM, "nilesh dhumal" <nilesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Group.

In my opinion No points No fun at least for me.

we are contradicting over here,i already know few riders who are not going to ride cause of no points (not confirmed but i know) :-(  .. Points are mandatory if the race is in the calender and keep it simple is the suggestion i have.

Categories should be announced before not in the middle like this. 

and Categories based on Equipment is silly if this is not been applied to other races.

 also making it easy.... are we saying to have more participants we will have 20 km races with the 100km road race with additional MTB category for road race .this way we will truly have more numbers... have more podium more people racing.

(Sorry to Say this kind of arrangements seem to be suspicious to people) 

there are other ways to promote the sport this is certainly not the way and talking about safety one should not compromise at least being organizers besides riders are responsible for themselves.

these are my last cents, if need more advice will be happy to serve the community, not any racing program for free.

[Balu BLR]

whats it going to be ? multiple podiums with no points or  old system & no change in categories ?


Just a thought : why not declare this race as different category and assign separate points under DH category (apart from tarmac and dirt).

-Balu

[Rohan Kini]

A separate DH format and a separate points system for this race would be good too.

I think its the simplest way of running this plus it allows the race to be defined better.

Nelly from the chat I had with you in the morning does this solve both? We have a separate DH category which has points and winners. At the same time we run it in the manner recommended earlier to ensure the better DH folks race together and not stick to the current categories. We just have new categories for DH to accomodate the skill levels.

We need to wrap up on this today cause we need to announce this today and try and run practice/qualifying runs this Sunday.

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

+1 for DH as separate category.
Skill sets are different anyways.

[Balu BLR]

Just finished 1hr conversation with Nelly and Rohan for this race.

Conclusion: this race will run like normal race and same points system. Points will be counted in Dirt championship.

-Balu

[Nalla P Konar]

Cool :)

Aal izz well then :)

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Karan Bhuta]

Hey Nelly and Balu, 

Have opened up a document to you guys, could you please edit the Course A and Course B options. Not sure about the Cat and all - Please update the sheet. 

Regards 

Karan 

[Rohan Kini]

Quick check on the current race.

-  Vasu, Santosh and Suraj and they said they will be talking about the race today/tomorrow.

- Arvind, Vasu and Marghoob - will be ensuring timing is setup for the race

- Karan, Nelly - http://www.bbch.in/downhill-race-2013-at-turahalli/ - Do the rules here look ok? You guys set for the race day? Crash pads, walkie talkies etc?

This page needs some formatting. Vasu will be working with Rohit on this.

- Adi is churning out the bibs and other creatives for the race.

- Vasu is working on the medical support - Ambulance from Nephrolife and Dr Dananjay from Sita Bhateja for extra med help.

- Adi, Karan and Rohan are working on the prizes.

- Santosh is running around for permissions and also ensuring pre-race and post-race activities.

Anything else that needs to be done for this race?

Please share the race event/details once you see it. 

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

Please stock up well on food & water part. Last to last year we were severely short as most of bananas, biscuits got over after qualifying sessions.
Take care of volunteers who are on the top as well.

[Rohan Kini]

Good point Nalla! 

With all the last minute scrambling we always miss out on taking care of volunteers.

~ROhan

[Rohan Kini]

Race day schedule for tomorrow

6:45am: registrations

7:30am: Women's and Amateurs (course 2)

8:30am - 9:30am: Mens qualifying (pro DH track - course 1)

10am - Competition Run

11:30am - Podium!

Food and water bought. We have a rough plan of action in place. Timing is going to be tricky but Vasu and Marghoob have it sorted out.

Permissions are sorted out and the only thing we are running around for the moment is ambulance, bibs and prizes.

Cya all at the dh track tomorrow.

~ROhan

[Rohan Kini]

Whew! That was one awesome race.

Decent turnout - we could have done better and attracted more folks to the amateur track provided we spoke a lot earlier. 

Timing was brilliant - Vasu, Sam, Marghoob and Arvind. Awesome job (0.1 difference between 1 position and 2 position!)

Nice pics coming up on the fb page and the overall event page should have all details soon.

I had a quick chat with the Pune guys and some other riders and feedback from them

- have a hard tail and full sus category

- a tougher race route. They felt this years route was easier than last years.

Any other feedback/thoughts?

~ROhan

[Rahul Thomas]

+1 on the timing. Fantastic job guys!! Really awesome job on an area
we have had issues with for a long time. No fuss, totally transparent
(with the ipad) and accurate. Kudos!

On the race route - yup, easier because only 1 jump to negotiate
(albeit a LOT bigger than last year). BUT, its all very well for
people to point that out when they aren't building or maintaining a
trail. It takes a buttload of work and people to just build and
maintain a single jump. Nelly, Iggy and a couple of people were
working on this jump for months before the finishing touches were laid
a couple of weeks ago. IF we want a change, my opinion would be that
we need a whole change of area. Like Nandi with a 1km track or
something. And we will need serious manpower cos the same people cant
keep doing this. Its backbreaking work.

Category by bike type - we have another year to thrash this out but i
suspect we'll be having the same debate in a year's time :) I dont
think it makes sense unless you decide to do bike-based categories for
other races too (like an MTB category for the road races).

As for crowd and participation, i think drumming it up earlier will
make a huge difference. Like last year.

Great job by all the volunteers. Really well handled IMO.

Cheers,

Rahul

On 7/21/13, Rohan Kini <rohan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whew! That was one awesome race.
>
> Decent turnout - we could have done better and attracted more folks to the
> amateur track provided we spoke a lot earlier.

> Timing was brilliant - Vasu, Sam, Marghoob and Arvind. Awesome job (*0.1
> difference between 1 position and 2 position!*)

> Nice pics coming up on the fb page and the overall event page should have
> all details soon.
>
> I had a quick chat with the Pune guys and some other riders and feedback
> from them
> - have a hard tail and full sus category
> - a tougher race route. They felt this years route was easier than last
> years.
>
> Any other feedback/thoughts?
>
>
> ~ROhan

> *
>
> *

>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Rohan Kini <rohan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

>> *Race day schedule for tomorrow*

>> 6:45am: registrations
>> 7:30am: Women's and Amateurs (course 2)
>> 8:30am - 9:30am: Mens qualifying (pro DH track - course 1)
>> 10am - Competition Run
>> 11:30am - Podium!
>>
>> Food and water bought. We have a rough plan of action in place. Timing is
>> going to be tricky but Vasu and Marghoob have it sorted out.
>> Permissions are sorted out and the only thing we are running around for
>> the moment is ambulance, bibs and prizes.
>>
>> Cya all at the dh track tomorrow.
>>
>> ~ROhan
>>
>

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Email: rahul....@gmail.com
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[Rohan Kini]

Spot on - I told them pretty much the same wrt the race route. They have promised to pitch in for the next race.

Nandi is something we were talking about - its a nice route but will need a LOT of work and its bloody far! Maybe we need to camp there for a couple of days if we need to make that happen.

Bike type - yup. Next year is a whole new game :)

What else - anything else that went great or needs more attention? 

beingthomas, would you be putting together a writeup about the race for folks who were not there to experience it? 

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

Yes Rahul, please capture it in a blog for folks like us who couldn't make it.
Nandi is to far man. Trail building will take time too for the volunteers/man power part. Will need to camp otherwise as Rohan suggested .
2011 route was more technical I believe looking at this race's video. But we need to add variety as well.
We had  been talking about multiple choice of routes(for various categories I mean) for quite some time, how else to drum more about it?