BBCh.2013 expenses?

[Nalla P Konar]

Buddies,
So we have two official photographers for BBCh now?
1. Veloscope
2. Rolling shutters.

Also now that we are charging registration fees, can we check our funds and see whether we can afford to fund the volunteers, photographers (always wished if the awesome Veloscope team can be compensated for their continuing selfless effort for past so many years).

Also we have to ensure that the Vit M expense sheet is up to date with detailed financial records to ensure no questions or fingers are raised.

BBCh rocks :)

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Arvind Ganesh]

Kinda OT for this thread but I would like to discuss the awarding of cash prizes. 

We need to have a hard think on this as there is a possibility that it may kill participation from non-competitive riders. I saw a few eyebrows raised at the event on Sunday. 

My perception is this - riders are willing to come and race at BBCh to improve themselves. For years they were used to doing that for no cost, those that could donate donated to the Vit M box. Now, the organizing team has introduced a mandatory race fee to cover organizational expenses and it seems like the community at large was okay with that, as seen from the turnout. However, when we award cash prizes worth 14k, it appears that the majority of the fee collected went towards the prize money and not the expenses incurred towards organizing the race. IMO, the guys who finish in the bottom half of the races have no shot at winning this money and may not like funding the prize money for the guys who have a better shot at winning. Thoughts?

Prizes from sponsors were always okay. The message I heard at BBCh was that instead of awarding products, we are awarding money. If the prize money came from sponsors or other buckets and not the race fee, we should take the pains to make this clear. 

And I agree with Nalla. We should be doing more for volunteers and photographers and the folks who work selflessly to make BBCh what it is. This will keep the positive cycle going and make BBCh better (happy volunteers lead to more volunteers for future races and so on). 

Regards, 

Arvind

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[Rohan Kini]

Great questions!

Consolidating questions from Arvind and Nallas email

- who are official photographers of bbch?

- kill participation from non-competitive riders cause we charge Rs 300

- eyebrows raised at the event when we announced prize money

- organizing team has introduced a mandatory fee to cover organizational expenses

- how did we afford 14k prize money

- guys at the bottom - no chance of winning this amount and dont like funding the prize for the winners

- Prizes from sponsors were always okay - prize money came from sponsors or other buckets and not the race fee, we should take the pains to make this clear

- instead of awarding products, we are awarding money

- doing more for volunteers and photographers and the folks who work selflessly to make BBCh what it is - positive cycle going and make BBCh better

Some thoughts/answers

Official photographers - none. Everyone is welcome to come and shoot if they like. We pay for volunteers who help with the races and that typically has not covered photographers. Its typically been the folks who take the pains to make a race run and most of the times we try our best to save costs by car-pooling etc.

Prizes from Sponsors - took a shit load of my time before every race and also towards the end of the year I was out there on a limb pulling favors from companies just cause BOTS retailed the products (I was basically using the marketing budget that I get for BOTS from some of the brands we retail). Some of them even brazenly asked me to sell 3 times the amount of products they were 'contributing' to BBCh.

Communicating stuff better - yes. We should get better at this. But - its also one of the many reasons we had multiple BBCh meetings before this season of racing. We sent out a ton of emails asking folks for help and very few turned up.

A whole bunch of questions on money - I think we need to separate the race fee from what we are doing with it. As long as the races are really good it does not really matter. I dont know if everyone is on the same page here - but BBCh is not "a feel good sunday morning ride". Each year we have slowly taken the level of racing up a notch. Last year we introduced support and this year was planned sponsorships. We put in quite a lot of hard word this year trying to make sponsorship work - nothing interesting has come up yet. The 14k that you saw given last race was a gamble we took saying that even if we dont raise that much money from registrations we are ready to put personal finances to make the race happen. About the Rs 300 race fee - dont think its a biggie. We had some initial conversations on the forums about this - but nothing stuck. Anyone here has a problem with it still?

Why is money important - well, BBCh is a product. If we intend to improve this product we need to spend energy, time and money on it. Hopefully its all going to be spent on a better experience for bikers coming to race and also more money for the podium. I was chatting with Vivek after the race and he was telling me that the money was a great move for the podium as it goes towards team nutrition expenses. He said this is going to make a lot more folks want to come to Bangalore and race! Great!! The real plan was to give Rs 25,000 as price money (if we manage to get some cash from sponsors).

Doing stuff for volunteers and photographers - this is something that I think deserves more thought. I dont have answers to this more than saying we can make TShirts for the crew. I would be super happy to hear some good recommendations from you guys on this.

Yes BBCh rocks and it is going to be that way - just need to ensure you folks are all on the same page and no one feels threatened that its going to change for the worse. Trust me on this. Last 4 years is not a fluke and neither is this year. Money always makes things a bit difficult, but as long as its in good hands its also a great way to do better stuff.

Does this clarify most questions? If there are more - shoot em please. More than the money BBCh needs good folks who are willing to spend time on it and I dont want lack of clarity spoiling that.

Maybe we could all meetup once and I could also explain what we had set out to achieve and what we landed up with and what would be great for next year and if folks are interested in spending some more time to make that happen.

~ROhan

[Arvind Ganesh]

Responding to a few things Rohan. 

A whole bunch of questions on money - I think we need to separate the race fee from what we are doing with it. As long as the races are really good it does not really matter. I dont know if everyone is on the same page here - but BBCh is not "a feel good sunday morning ride". Each year we have slowly taken the level of racing up a notch. Last year we introduced support and this year was planned sponsorships. We put in quite a lot of hard word this year trying to make sponsorship work - nothing interesting has come up yet. The 14k that you saw given last race was a gamble we took saying that even if we dont raise that much money from registrations we are ready to put personal finances to make the race happen. About the Rs 300 race fee - dont think its a biggie. We had some initial conversations on the forums about this - but nothing stuck. Anyone here has a problem with it still?

So, obviously at the first race, the fee didn't cause participation issues. My fear is that I noticed a number of riders caught off guard by the prize money. I don't know how many people thought as I think they might have - that their race fee is going towards prize money. This is something to watch out for - if you see this opinion forming - it is best nipped in the bud. If BOTS is putting money towards prize money, say as much and make sure it is communicated that race fee is used for race organization. 

Lack of people - Volunteering is a pretty thankless job! the fact that there are no rewards means only the most dedicated/motivated of people turn up for volunteer tasks. T-shirts are good (where's mine btw? :) ) but things like a volunteer breakfast after the race would also help. Some other suggestions - occasional race for the volunteer team, year-end recognition for most consistent volunteers etc. Basically, this is one area where we need to improve , so let's put some effort towards it. 

Photographers - we need to recognize that they play an important role in elevating visibility for BBCh. I see most participants - competitive or not - enjoy seeing after race pictures. Financial or not, we need to communicate with the photographers and make sure they are appreciated. Maybe an occasional race for photographers too - and give them prizes. 

-Arvind

[S Chidambaran]

On 02/20/2013 08:50 PM, Rohan Kini wrote:
> Great questions!
>
> Consolidating questions from Arvind and Nallas email
> - who are official photographers of bbch?
> - kill participation from non-competitive riders cause we charge Rs 300

I don't think so. 300 is still okay. People pay that for the privilege
of riding a brevet. Its the prize money that will get people's goat. I
also think it is extremely inappropriate. Think about it Rs7000 is not
enough money to make a big difference to the prize winner , but enough
to piss off a lot of people.

Not to mention, there will be more reason for a repeat of Stonehill.

> A whole bunch of questions on money - I think we need to separate the
> race fee from what we are doing with it. As long as the races are
> really good it does not really matter. I dont know if everyone is on
> the same page here - but BBCh is not "a feel good sunday morning
> ride". Each year we have slowly taken the level of racing up a notch.
> Last year we introduced support and this year was planned
> sponsorships. We put in quite a lot of hard word this year trying to
> make sponsorship work - nothing interesting has come up yet. The 14k
> that you saw given last race was a gamble we took saying that even if
> we dont raise that much money from registrations we are ready to put
> personal finances to make the race happen. About the Rs 300 race fee -
> dont think its a biggie. We had some initial conversations on the
> forums about this - but nothing stuck. Anyone here has a problem with
> it still?

Most do BBCh for the boasting rights. Cash prizes might probably put
people off more than anything. I tend to agree with Arvind.

[Arvind Ganesh]

If we can start tracking volunteer hours - Happy Earth can contribute a set of NiteRider lights to the most consistent volunteer prize pool - to be awarded at the end of the year. Keep it a surprise and see if we can collect some more stuff - we can then award the top 3 volunteers maybe

[Venkatesh N]

+1

Man, I want to volunteer at all the races rather than race! I'll have more chances of winning something. ;)

Or lets just say blogger qualifies as volunteer. :P

Re: Prize money. I think the cash prize is good. It gives more seriousness to the races. It is great for the kids who win. It could mean good nutrition for them. After all racing is a little more than fun for most of them coming from modest households. 

But, the views expressed here got me thinking. A quick calculation told me money from nearly 46 participants went towards the prize purse(14000). That's 60% assuming that all 77 participants paid. But we know that more than 10 of them were students and were exempt from paying. That makes it an even higher percentage. So, does it not invalidate our claim that we started compulsory registration fee to help make races better and cover its expenses? 

If the collections of previous years(which I'm assuming is more than 25-30% of current collections) is not enough to cover race expenses, are we not going down the same path of not having enough money to cover expenses by putting a huge chunk of the fees as cash prize? 

Something to think about for sure.

Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Rohan Kini]

Arvind - good points about awarding volunteers. I totally agree we can do better on this. Bundling photographers into the same mix. 

We can spend sometime trying to figure out how. Tracking volunteer time is going to be tricky though.

Again - the money bit is going to be tricky and requires thinking a bit more than immediate incoming and outgoing cash flows.

Venky - we did collect 14k at the venue that day. We did spend a lot more on the race - Tshirts, medals, printed bibs, etc 

But thats as an investment into future racing - just makes it a little easier to achieve what we had set out to achieve what we explain to Balu and you.

My hope is that better races will have more folks racing and will hopefully get us more money coming in not just from registrations but also from the industry wanting to be a part of this event. Hopefully this will drive more money back into the event to take care of more stuff.

So maybe I dont get the exact concerns folks have - assuming we figure out a better way to thank volunteers and photographers and we disconnect the money coming in and the money going out what else are the issues?

~ROhan

[Satheesh]

Friends,

I am silently following the mail threads during my free time.
Discussion is healthy and leading towards ideas generation; has to think about implementation!

I have idea to generate funds (prize money! or more goodies to give away) for every race.
We can target IT/ITES/BT companies or companies that are indirectly related to sports to generate funds. Every company allots money during their yearly budget for social cause and green cause. We can pursue with HRs and think how we can leverage to get those funds for these events. Once we know for what kind of events companies spend such money then we can plan.
I am sure atleast one company will take up full year as contract with BBCh and they can advertise during race time and also offline on our e-group.

For the above to happen we need to have a very good presentation about BBCh, our activities with more focus on how we are trying to improve cycling as a sport and working towards greener cause. Can anybody help with the draft presentation that can be updated and refined as we proceed. I will talk to HRs I know in few companies and see the outcome.


Regards,
Satheesh
88843 55669 (new number)

Regards,
Satheesh Amilineni
Inspire & Lead if not, Follow your Lead!
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COCO [Cycle On, Cycle Onwards]
(A FORward150 initiative)

[Nalla P Konar]

wow, so many good points came up.. Glad i started this topic :)

+1 to Arvind, where is my sexy Volunteer tee !! :)
+1 to Venky, i guess i am in Cat1, so the only way i will get something from these races is by volunteering :)

We ought to start some way to reward volunteers, photographers and others who are behind the scene, Thanks Arvind for gift option.

Hope we have different colours of tee, we dont want to regular one to have wardrobe of same tees :)

Regarding cash prize, i guess 14k is bit high with current inflow, historically roadrace has had higher participants than off road. So we have to think about that as well. Its better than giving products like folks always getting helmets etc :) Thanks Rohan for sharing the details about sponsors expectation.

We need to also make things transparent about all the activities behind the scene, it doesnt take long for eyebrows to raise.
I personally heard few queries like Official photographers of BBCh, it was always Veloscope and folks felt after seeing few folks from Rolling Shutters and only one Venkatesh Murugesan from Veloscope that something is not right. That's the reason i asked myself here.

I guess these are primary concerns, we seem to be on the right track so far, lets keep it up,

Rgds,
Nalla.

[Rohan Kini]

Sure - who wants to volunteer to help folks who volunteer? I thought we got TShirts printed for volunteers at the prev race too.

Basically we need folks who can help define volunteering at BBCh and how they get rewarded for investing their time at BBCh.

Cash prizes - idea was to hand out 25k (15K, 7K, 3K if I remember right for 1, 2, 3) for Cat 1 and Womens. Not happening unless we raise money. Satheesh if you could help us with this that would be great - the reality is that racing is not green. Over 50 folks drove down to the start point on Sunday :) But racing in turn promotes cycling which is green. We have a race book and a sponsorship docket that we made for this - http://blog.bumsonthesaddle.com/2013/02/14/bicycle-races-bangalore-2013

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can get support from companies who are willing to plonk down hard cash for racing?

Nalla, Im not sure why eyebrows were raised if there were more folks shooting the race and I dont understand what this official photographers is all about. Is SKCT the only official team at BBCh and did the coming up of the Trek team and WS team cause any raised eyebrows? More the merrier right - atleast we got a lot more different angles and a different take on the snaps.

Regards,

ROhan

stay in touch: 

~ www.bumsonthesaddle.com

[Satheesh]

One more idea to generate more and more funds ....

Register one NGO and do the stuff these guys are doing!
http://www.bangalorecares.in/ngo-detail/?ng_id=118&ref=refer&slug=tcs-world-10k-bangalore-2013

We can promote cycling as well as conduct races ... both can go hand-in-hand!

Regards,
Satheesh

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[Rohan Kini]

Yup - am looking at trying to figure out how to run this organizationally. Have spoken to quite a few folks across India who are running organizations in running/biking, spoken to my CA and also looking long term to figure out whats best to grow this.

Although its something on my radar and something that I think needs solving - I still dont think it really solves any burning issue at the moment. 

Regards,

ROhan

stay in touch: 

~ www.bumsonthesaddle.com

[Arvind Ganesh]

All this talk about organization gives me another idea. To make a better volunteer experience, we could have roles and titles. Like a good organization - we can have volunteers start at rookie, move to being an experienced hand, leader and finally manager.

Idea is that students can benefit from hands on experience at building something tangible. When someone comes on board for the season, we set them goals and if they meet/exceed their goals, we give them due recognition - a certificate and shout out on the website. Would help some of these students show their mettle at extra-curricular activities when they apply for a job/grad school. 

Thoughts? 

-Arvind

[Vasu]

Completely agree and I have been saying this for a while now. Just that never seen youngsters volunteer. Don't know what these kids do with their time these days. 

We should do this.