August race is TTT right?

[Nalla P Konar]

Buddies,
August BBCh race is TTT right?
Do we know the route, distance etc?
Else we can have it at the usual Emerald isle resort till confident amoon & back for 33 km?
The roads are excellent & headwinds during return adds lovely challenge.

[Venkatesh N]

Yes, that was the course we used last year and we can do the same this year.

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[Balu BLR]

@Rohan/Modi:

Please put up the rules and points system in forum and BBCh page

This is what I copied from BBCh page (rules-and-regulations) : so minimum 3 riders and maximum 6 riders.

Team Time Trial: A minimum of 3 riders in a team have to cross the finish line – the 3rd rider’s timing is the team’s timing. Maximum number of riders in a team for team time trial is 6.
Team points will be awarded as listed below.

Team Position Team Points

1st -  50

2nd - 40

3rd - 30

4th - 20

5th - 10

6th - 8

7th - 6

8th - 5

9th - 4

.
.
Nth - 3

[Vasu]

I was thinking the same except the maximum riders to be 7 and not 6. 

What say?

[Balu BLR]

I think 6 start and 3rd time is better than 7 start 3rd time.

lets stick to 6 maximum....

[Rohan Kini]

Attaching the TTT segment from the USA Cycling rules book.

Had a quick chat with Naveen and he had a good idea - how about we start with only 4 and 3 have to finish. Basically you get to drop only one. Apparently thats also how his national collegate races used to work.

Vasu/Rohit are making the page for the race and add the rules onto that page so that we are clear on this.

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

Oh, only 4 per team?
Then we can have multiple entries from reach team, right?

[Vasu]

My opinion,

Multiple entries from each team - Yes.

Only 4 riders per team - This should depend on distance.

•  25km or less then 4 to start and 3 to end.
• 25 - 30km then 6 to start and 3 to end
• 30+ km then 7 to start and 3 to end

Basically, I think, on a shorter course it is ok to have few riders to 'pull'. But on a longer course it will help to have more riders.

 

 

My questions:

Can we have a straight race and NOT have any U turns? Riders can then ride back at a leisurely pace or have their cars pick him/her up. Podium will be at the start point.

 

The advantages of this are:

• no U turns and hence no confusions
• easy for teams to ride,
• easy for marshals to manage traffic,
• easy for marking,
• easy for timing crew,
• by the time the riders get back to the start point, pack bikes and finish chit-chat the results will (hopefully) be ready.
• we can ride any distance without bothering to find a point with a median to take a U turn

 Please think about it.

[Balu BLR]

4 to start 3 finish. Nice... (I think in nationals also it is 4 to start 3 to finish)

@Vasu: Start & finish in one place makes logistic simple. It is also good for audience.

[Vasu]

Agree it makes logistic simple.

 

Audience can either ride a bike and race or watch photos on Facebook.

 

Always better to have minimal high speed turns. It is a nightmare for the marshals and riders alike. And as I said earlier, this gives the timing crew some breathing time.

V

[Naveen John]

Folks,

-4 is plenty for even up to 40k. At Indian Nats, it's 4 for 60k. A US collegiate Nats, it's 4 for 30k. 4 starting typically requires 3 finishing.

-Fielding multiple teams is a great idea. Let's do it.

-One way TT's are not getting my vote. They teach you nothing about pacing and they give you no objective info about a performance, which is at the heart of a timed trial. I know the TCC, HCC and CCC do one-way tailwind TT's. The only place a one-way TT makes sense is if it's an uphill TT or it's the Tour de France. My two cents.

-Knowing the course is the responsibility of every rider. If you bothered enough to complain about not knowing where a turn around is after a race, you should be serious enough to have pre-ridden the course. 

cheers,

NJ

Naveen John
BSEE | School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
Purdue University | Class of 2011
navee...@gmail.com | +91 8892039222

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 7:55 PM, Vasu <mr.b....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Venkatesh N]

+1 on all points. Especially the one about the course being out and back is important for a TT.

[Rohan Kini]

Ok .. done. 

4 member teams. 3 have to finish.

Multiple sub-teams per team

Out and back route - same location.

Balu has already put out the points for the races

Some of you have been on the same route last 2 weekends racing - how busy was it out there? Any different from last years TT?

~ROhan

[Venkatesh N]

No different from last year in terms of traffic.

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Balu BLR]

as per BBCH.in FAQ:

Q: Does TTT have category racing?
A: No

This means no Under18 cat also

Just a heads up on points calculation (for the teams who form more than 1 sub teams, since no. of riders are 4), I am going to follow same point system as last year.

Case 1: XXX team 1 = men & XXX team 2 = men

only one team gets points for team points calculation.

Case2: XXX team 1 = men & XXX team 2 = women

in this case both will get team points

Case3 (same as case 1): XXX team 1 = women & XXX team 2 = women
only one team gets points for team points calculation.

similarly if 2 men sub teams and 2 women sub teams (team points will be earned : one from boys & one from women)

Hope I made my points clear, please confirm if it is ok.

-Balu

[Rohan Kini]

Sounds fair.

Q - Does each team have to decide which sub team of theirs will qualify for team points or do the best sub team automatically qualify for team points?

If any team has an U18 team participate they too would qualify for team points? (like women).

Alternatively - we can recognize Womens and Under18 teams separately and the keep this a team event and have mixed teams.

Last year a few women were pretty peeved that there was no women's category in TTT and even if they formed one they would have to compete with the men.

[Balu BLR]

1. Best sub team automatically qualify for team points..

2. U18: will be treated as men / women category. You can have separate podium for them if you decide.

3. Last year, I remember: there was women podium and points were also assigned.

-Balu

[Rohan Kini]

There has been quite a few folks clamoring for a masters category (35 years +) How about adding a spanking new masters category this race onwards?

Which means the categories for the TTT would be

1. Mens Open (no categories)
   
2. Women's
   
3. Under 18 Mens
   
4. Under 18 Women's
   
5. Masters

As usual the number of podiums depends on the number of teams who start

• 3 teams - 1st place only
  
• 5 teams - 1st and 2nd place only
  
• 8 teams and above - all 4 positions

~ROhan

On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Rohan Kini <rohan...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Venkatesh N]

Masters is a great idea.

One question though.. For a TTT, everyone in the 4man team need to be over 35, right?

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Balu BLR]

I will vote for 30+ as master category :P

[Rohan Kini]

Yup - thats right. A masters team.

Balu, looks like masters is 30 - 39 age group

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/mtb/article/mtbst_Mountain-Bike-Category-System-Explained

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Venkatesh N <hiven...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Venkatesh N]

Yup, although masters typically starts at 30+, looks like some regions in the US have their masters categories start at 35+. 

We an decide on where would be our masters category start. Could be 30+ or 35+. Either way, it will separate the Mamils(oh this term applies for 35+ btw) from the young pros which is a good thing.

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Rohan Kini]

35+

[Balu BLR]

@Rohan/Modi :

Do we have the database of all riders DOB ?If yes, we can decide 30+ or 35+ depending on percentage.

-Balu

[Balu BLR]

35+

let the masters have some podiums ;)

(I drafted that mail before Rohan mail)

on serious note: do we have enough 35+ riders for TTT ?

if it is normal road race I can understand, since TTT is minimum 3 members in team. Do we have more masters team ?

-Balu

[Nalla P Konar]

Wow Masters category.. yay !!

I also suspect whether we will have many teams with at least 4 members aging 35+

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Venkatesh N]

At least I know one team. Spectrum :)

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Nalla P Konar]

hehe..

only two of us in CW racing team.. Opendro and myself.

Chiddu doesnt like to race so not including him.

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Balu BLR]

One podium guaranteed for spectrum ;)

[modi]

My 2cents. While its good to bring in the masters category, but i think the TTT isnt the right race to introduce this. Last year i guess we had 11-12 teams racing and with 5 categories its effectively 2 teams per cat approx. While we are introducing more winners we are reducing the competition.

In US if the number of participants in a Category is less then they merge with the other categories, This is one of the reasons why they dont have the 30-35yrs age category. 

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=7220

@Balu: we dont have the DOB of riders in our database. I've been thinking about this for a long time, but havent had the time to change it. Now with DoAttend i think we can add DOB. Rohan can you confirm?

-modi

[Vasu]

Who is doing the route marking??

V

[Nalla P Konar]

Good question. :)
We will plan it & either CW or Spectrum folks will do it ;)

[Nalla P Konar]

Was discussing with BikeyVenky, we will try to do it this weekend itself. Either on Friday or Saturday.

What distance marking do you suggest?

I feel after start point, directly a KM before U turn & at the U turn should be good enough and then more markings before finish line. Like 2km to Go, 1 km to Go.
What say ?

Rgds,
Nalla.
Rider of Cleated Warriors - Bangalore Bicycle racing team
Visit http://www.facebook.com/cleatedwarriors for more details

[Rohan Kini]

Good point Modi. Just that quite a few folks have been asking about a masters category. 

Lets give it a shot and see what happens? 

Since TTT is a standalone team event it does not need too much thinking about masters wrt points. Plus we can have some fun with the new category! Nalla, didnt know you qualified for masters man! Look so young.

We dont have DOB anywhere at the moment. Will add age and weight field for this times registration ;)

~ROhan

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 10:54 PM, modi <modi....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Venkatesh N]

Wait... Err.. Weight? What for?

I can give away my age but not my weight. :P

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Rohan Kini]

Fantastic. Thanks Nalla.

Chalk marking on the roads would be super awesome! 

Can we keep the TTT slightly longer? Naveen, whats a challenging TTT distance that you would love to race?

[Rohan Kini]

Hehe. 

Just planning for the future. 

...

Masters, sub 50kgs, carbon

Masters, sub 100kgs, Alu

...

[Venkatesh N]

Lol! Yeah, we could collect waistline details as well. :D

Sub 28, 30+, 36+ etc. :)

--
Cheers,
Venky
govenkygo.com

[Nalla P Konar]

Shall we use the spray paint like before?
Chalk might not stay for long.

LOL Venky about weight & waist line.

[Rohan Kini]

Not staying for long is a good thing right Nalla? We dont damage/mar public property. Chalk will just wash off after a shower or after a few days.

If we plan to use spray paint we could mark it so that its the same one time marking for BBCh, BAR, SFS etc races. Saves effort.

~ROhan

[Nalla P Konar]

It should not wash off before the race, so was worried about chalk marking.
Yes can be re used for various races.

[Rohan Kini]

Sounds great! :)

~ROhan

[Balu BLR]

@Rohan: In your earlier mail, you mentioned   "Vasu/Rohit are making the page for the race and add the rules onto that page so that we are clear on this."

any update on that..

-Balu

[Vasu]

All, 

FYI this is what we have right now - http://www.bbch.in/2013/08/01/team-time-trial/

Please check and let me know if anything needs to be added here.

Thanks!

[Suma Rao]

Team of 4 required of 3 is fine?

[Nalla P Konar]

Minimum 3 required Suma.
Maximum 4 in a team. Timing of third racer will be team's timing

[Rohan Kini]

Hey Folks,

We had a quick volunteers meet today. Attached whiteboard-shots of whatever we spoke about

Cya guys at 6am at the start point tomorrow!

~ROhan

[Arvind Ganesh]

One point from the timing team. We have reserved the first 20 bib numbers for timing entries. Please start issuing bibs from #21 - leave the first 20 for us. 

Regards, 

Arvind