RE: Posting to BATA denied: 其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的
Allen Kuo
Hi Luby:
前天蔡英文已透過友人打電話給我, 要求 BATA 不要再討論她私人的相關議題. 蔡英文又同時表達了她需要集中精神以對付國民黨及中國, 希望大家給她一個空間. 因為事關個人權益, 我們尊重她的要求.
其實所有相關私人背景的討論, 不管正反面意見, 對象是誰, 都只是在促進於網路上散布 "她/他私人可能有很負面的背景" 的暗示, 大家應該避免.凡不是屬於公共領域的話題, 不管正反面意見, 大家都應該避免.
另外 Luby, 你我都只是網站管理人, 希望您干萬不要造成 "同是台派網站竟然在對抗" 的印象. 在BATA 任何話題, 都有正反兩面可自由發表, 絕非一言堂, 哪來什麼對抗? Please see my response to BATA members below.
to apply for as a BATA member:
Hi RJL:
Thank you for your feedbacks.
The term "disciplinary actions" you suggested here is a concept under authority powers (such as the KMT), and it is very hard for anyone to understand why someone would actually suggest a freelance discussion forum in the US, BATA, to be managed under such a style. Please note the management team is NOT here to make any judgments on which article contains the so called " abusive language " or not. Please also note any postings onto BATA, until yesterday are NOT under auditing. Any postings by a right standing member are released directly. The reasons I am taking actions to auditing the postings and filtering out any discussions related to 蔡英文's personal background since yesterday, is because we do agree that the initial article which contains a personal background description ("蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的") is highly debatable, and it might be slanderous that individual. Any debatable discussions like this which are not in the public affair domain, should be discouraged. In addition, the BATA management team has received a request from 蔡英文 to stop this discussion, and we respect her request.
Regarding to "encouraging" certain opinion parties, please also note that BATA always has opportunities to let controversial opinions be released, from time to time. Everyone has equal opportunity to post his/her opinions. Consequently, the management team which includes myself should also have the equal opportunity to address my opinion, just as a regular member. There is no such concept as "Being encouraged by management team", in the US. This is not an "Authorized power region". The fact you have this kind of concept, in my opinion, means you might have been suffering under the control of authority powers (such as the KMT) too long. This is a very common scenario for all this generation of Taiwanese Americans, and I am very sorry for you.
Also please allow me to explain the expression which I used a long time (3 years) ago, 牝雞司晨. This is to encourage anyone to act in the role that he/she is best for. The description 牝雞司晨, which means "女雞通常不適合晨啼" is the same as if one would say "男雞通常不適合孵蛋". All over the world, in most the countries, leaders are male and NOT female, and most house wives are female. This is a fact! I do NOT see where any discrimination is coming from? I hope more women will get involved in politics and am all for this.
RJL, frequently you have released some articles which have slandered BATA in another internet discussion forum. In the mean while, you have purposely NOT released the same articles to BATA and let the members here have the equal opportunity to be aware of your criticizing of BATA in public. This is the example (also Sidney Chen and Gordon Liu's examples) which, the BATA management team needs to take action with immediately, and terminate both of your subscriptions. It is NOT the controversial opinions, or even accent words (the so call "F-Words, as you described) that one needs to use, from time to time in the public domain, which the BATA management needs to take action for.
Again, thank you for your feedbacks.
Allen Kuo
From: RJL WAN [mailto:rjl...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 3:49 AM
To: "Johnny Shieh"
Cc: "Hilda"
Subject: Re: Fwd: [BATA] Further postings that will be NOT distributed
Dear Johnny: I tip my hat to you, Shue Lin and Hilda too. Yes, the list manager should have taken disciplinary actions when members repeatedly using abusive language. As the matter of fact, the list manager himself needs some disciplines so he won't repeatedly using sexual discrimination terms, such as 牝雞司晨, to attack a female political leader. I can not believe that he did nothing when someone repeatedly using F-words to curse, and saying something like "蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的", but removed Shue Lin immediately only because she made one comment against those nonsense. That's why I feel that those members are actually "encouraged" to conduct those 邱毅 style random attacks. I am glad that you and Hilda spoke up for Shue Lin. Thank you. I used to be a one of the silent majority too.
RJL Wan
From: i_love...@googlegroups.com [mailto:i_love...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Luby Liao
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:31 AM
To: i_love_taiwan; po...@posterous.com; Forum NATPA; BATA
Subject: [iLoveTW] (Posting to BATA denied) Bing Hsieh: 其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人寫的。 可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力， 也沒有分別文章，或其他事物的優劣的能力
其實我的 post 的目的是向 Bing Hsieh 及他 BATA 同志們請教. 請他們証實 Bing Hsieh 所說的:
其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人(文膽?文癡？)
寫的。
可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力，
也沒有分別文章，(或其他事物的優劣)的能力。
請 Allen Kuo 給 BATA members 就我上面的問題發表他們意見的機會, 不再次拒登. But if this message is blocked again, I will appreciate it very much if anyone would relay it to BATA.
|
-
bing hsieh
蔡英文當主席4年，除了提出「中間路線」，「溫和理性」，「3支小豬」
「台灣就是中華民國」等投降式的口號以外，
曾提出任何對付國民黨和共產黨的方法嗎?
現在他沒有任何官職了，為什麼卻有什麼集中精神來對付kmt和ccp?
From: Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>
To: luby...@gmail.com; 'i_love_taiwan' <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; po...@posterous.com; 'Forum NATPA' <natpa...@googlegroups.com>; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 9:12 AM
Subject: [BATA] RE: Posting to BATA denied: 其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的
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Allen Kuo
完全同意南嘉生的見解. 事實上, 尺度更應該設立在 "凡是與公共事務無關的私人事務貼文, 都不應該幫它發布".
我們之所以會發生這樣與旨趣不符之貼文被發布的事件, 我已經解釋過了: 不管BATA或 I Love Taiwan, 都不是屬於那種全時間監控, 然後放行的網站. 這不是我們的 Style. 管理人員也不見得有多餘的時間, 去實行這樣細緻的管控.
我同時也解釋過了: 當有這種關於私人事務, 高度爭議性的貼文出現之後, 除了管理人員最好在第一時間立刻補救, 並將網站監控一段時間之外, 其他人等都不宜再加以討論, 甚至爭執, 喧嚷. 在網路上繼續爭執喧嚷別人的私事, 不管正反面立場如何, 對於當事都是一種困擾以及2度傷害. 第一時間已經發生的錯誤, 你卻將它延續, 變成一個確立的議題而喧嚷出去, 不是很不合邏輯嗎? 這種最基本的網路人權之維護, 也根本不需要扯上政治層面, 就可以理解.
我們除了已透過友人向蔡女士表達事件已經處理之外, 也希望這個討論到此為止.
Allen Kuo
From: i_love...@googlegroups.com [mailto:i_love...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 南嘉生
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 4:49 AM
To: alle...@timebyte.com
Cc: luby...@gmail.com; i_love_taiwan; po...@posterous.com; Forum NATPA; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [iLoveTW] RE: Posting to BATA denied: 其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的
各位
光看到這段話，「可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的」，除非寫者同時提出足夠的證據，網管就應該介入，馬上刪文。在台灣這樣容易人云亦云，而國民黨又善魚餌與戰術的社會，任何沒有充分證據，又影射政治人物的言論，都應該考慮予以刪除。我不是偏愛蔡英文，而是經過數十年的經驗，深知這些資訊經常是錯誤，甚至是藍軍，包含假裝綠軍的藍軍，放出來的。
網管有義務盡其所能的維護資訊正確。
2013/3/8 Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>
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Luby Liao
其實我的 post 的目的是向 Bing Hsieh 及他 BATA 同志們請教. 請他們証實 Bing Hsieh 所寫的:
其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人(文膽?文癡？)
寫的。
可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力，
也沒有分別文章，(或其他事物的優劣)的能力。
請 Allen Kuo 給 BATA members 就我上面的問題發表他們意見的機會, 不再次拒登. But if this message is blocked again, I will appreciate it very much if anyone would relay it to BATA.
Cheers, Luby
Bing Hsieh 迅速地做了下面的回應:
她需要集中精神以對付國民黨及中國, 希望大家給她一個空間?
蔡英文當主席4年，除了提出「中間路線」，「溫和理性」，「3支小豬」
「台灣就是中華民國」等投降式的口號以外， 曾提出任何對付國民黨和共產黨的方法嗎? 現在他沒有任何官職了，為什麼卻有什麼集中精神來對付kmt和ccp?
我想請 Bing Hsieh 回答我的問題, 例如拿出証據來証明蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的.
我也想請教 Allen Kuo 為什麼 Bing Hsieh 的文章OK, 但我的則必須封殺.
Cheers, Luby
=====
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||||
Johnson C Wang
When 蔡英文 approved the funds to the bio-company, was 蔡英文 the Vice prime minister or not? Just answer YES or NO.
Was 蔡英文 the CEO of the bi-company received the funds approve by 蔡英文 ? Just answer YES orr NO ?
J. Wang
From: RJL WAN <rjl...@yahoo.com>
To: Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>,
Date: 03/08/2013 05:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [iLoveTW] RE: Posting to BATA denied
非常樂見 Allen Kuo "完全同意南嘉生的見解"。
既然如此，我還有兩個問題想請教 Allen Kuo:
既然，「蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的」這種說法，沒有證據就不能亂說；
那麼， 蔡英文 approved funds for CEO 蔡英文」這種早已被證實是國民黨下三濫的抹黑潑糞，可以一講再講嗎？
如果，亂放「蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的」這種謠言的人，有可能是「藍軍，包含假裝綠軍的藍軍」，
那麼，像跳針的電唱機一樣，一再重複「Vice prime minister 蔡英文 approved funds for CEO 蔡英文」的人又是那一軍呢？
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>
Date: Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 9:16 AM
Subject: [iLoveTW] RE: Posting to BATA denied
To: i_love_taiwan <i_love...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: luby...@gmail.com, po...@posterous.com, Forum NATPA <natpa...@googlegroups.com>, bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com, alim...@gmail.com
完全同意南嘉生的見解. 事實上, 尺度更應該設立在 "凡是與公共事務無關的私人事務貼文, 都不應該幫它發布".
我們之所以會發生這樣與旨趣不符之貼文被發布的事件, 我已經解釋過了: 不管BATA或 I Love Taiwan, 都不是屬於那種全時間監控, 然後放行的網站. 這不是我們的 Style. 管理人員也不見得有多餘的時間, 去實行這樣細緻的管控.
我同時也解釋過了: 當有這種關於私人事務, 高度爭議性的貼文出現之後, 除了管理人員最好在第一時間立刻補救, 並將網站監控一段時間之外, 其他人等都不宜再加以討論, 甚至爭執, 喧嚷. 在網路上繼續爭執喧嚷別人的私事, 不管正反面立場如何, 對於當事都是一種困擾以及2度傷害. 第一時間已經發生的錯誤, 你卻將它延續, 變成一個確立的議題而喧嚷出去, 不是很不合邏輯嗎? 這種最基本的網路人權之維護, 也根本不需要扯上政治層面, 就可以理解.
我們除了已透過友人向蔡女士表達事件已經處理之外, 也希望這個討論到此為止.
Allen Kuo
From: i_love...@googlegroups.com [mailto:i_love...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 南嘉生
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 4:49 AM
To: alle...@timebyte.com
Cc: luby...@gmail.com; i_love_taiwan; po...@posterous.com; Forum NATPA; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [iLoveTW] RE: Posting to BATA denied: 其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的
各位
光看到這段話，「可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的」，除非寫者同時提出足夠的證據，網管就應該介入，馬上刪文。在台灣這樣容易人云亦云，而國民黨又善魚餌與戰術的社會，任何沒有充分證據，又影射政治人物的言論，都應該考慮予以刪除。我不是偏愛蔡英文，而是經過數十年的經驗，深知這些資訊經常是錯誤，甚至是藍軍，包含假裝綠軍的藍軍，放出來的。
網管有義務盡其所能的維護資訊正確。
2013/3/8 Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>
請隨時 造訪我們的網站 http://groups.google.com/group/i_love_taiwan
Johnson C Wang
For my beloved Taiwanese, I feel I am obligated to prevent 蔡英文 in giving away another seat of Taiwanese President to KMT as she did in 2012.
J. Wang
From: RJL WAN <rjl...@yahoo.com>
To: Allen Kuo <alle...@timebyte.com>,
Date: 03/08/2013 05:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [iLoveTW] RE: Posting to BATA denied
Sent by: i_love...@googlegroups.com
非常樂見 Allen Kuo "完全同意南嘉生的見解"。
既然如此，我還有兩個問題想請教 Allen Kuo:
既然，「蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的」這種說法，沒有證據就不能亂說；
Johnson C Wang
He promised to stop all the postings related to IW Tsai.
What a capable agent to carry out "censorship" for a power media controlling Czar.
J. Wang
From: "Johnny Shieh" <jsh...@mytronics.com>
To: "'ching chen'" <ching...@gmail.com>, "'Luby Liao'" <luby...@gmail.com>,
Cc: "'I Love Taiwan'" <i_love...@googlegroups.com>, "'Forum NATPA'" <natpa...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 03/09/2013 03:06 PM
Subject: [iLoveTW] RE: [NATPA Forum] (Posting to BATA denied) Bing Hsieh: ???????????????????????? ????????????????,?????????????, ???????,???????????
Sent by: i_love...@googlegroups.com
Hi Ching and Luby,
I am working with the this forum's administrator, editor, or moderator, Allen Kuo, regarding your concerns. He promised to stop all the postings related to IW Tsai. Let's wait and see how it unfolds.
There is only a couple of them posting that kind of outrageous, shameful, vulgar and false slogans. So please don't attack BATA indiscriminately. On the other hand, I share your frustration of not being able to get response from the writer.
This forum constitutes members, including NATPA members living in this area, from all Taiwanese American organizations of the San Francisco Bay Area. I don't understand why anyone of the NATPA members didn't pick this issue and, analyze and respond back to them.
Best regards,
Johnny Shieh
From: natpa...@googlegroups.com [mailto:natpa...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ching chen
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:43 AM
To: Luby Liao
Cc: I Love Taiwan; Forum NATPA
Subject: Re: [NATPA Forum] (Posting to BATA denied) Bing Hsieh: ???????????????????????? ????????????????,?????????????, ???????,???????????
BATA has fully exposed itself as the most outrageous Taiwanese American forum there is in north America!!!
It is not the first time a BATA member has made ridiculous accusations against widely-respected Taiwanese. And, it quite likely won't be the last time.
Oh, I have no access to BATA and have no desire to get involved over there.
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Luby Liao <luby...@gmail.com> wrote:
其實我的 post 的目的是向 Bing Hsieh 及他 BATA 同志們請教. 請他們証實 Bing Hsieh 所說的:
其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人(文膽?文癡？)
寫的。
可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力，
也沒有分別文章，(或其他事物的優劣)的能力。
請 Allen Kuo 給 BATA members 就我上面的問題發表他們意見的機會, 不再次拒登. But if this message is blocked again, I will appreciate it very much if anyone would relay it to BATA.
Cheers, Luby
=====
From: <bay-area-taiwane...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 5:44 AM
Subject: Bing Hsieh: 其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人寫的。 可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力， 也沒有分別文章，或其他事物的優劣的能力 (Posting denied)
Hi Luby:
As I have already announced, since 蔡英文 office has contacted BATA concerning this non-proper posting and discussions, any topic related to this thread of discussion will be NOT distributed. This has noting to do with pro-蔡英文 or anti-蔡英文, it is a request from her own office to stop this discussion.
Thanks;
Editor
=====
Bing Hsieh 說:
其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人(文膽?文癡？)
寫的。
可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力，
也沒有分別文章，(或其他事物的優劣)的能力。
請 Bing Hsieh 及他的同志們証實上面的 claims.
謝謝, Luby
2013/3/4 RJL WAN wrote
BATA 真的是"言論自由"的天堂，這群人可以公開詆毀女性，可以任意用 F-Word 罵人，用"牠"來污辱人格，也可以拿連國民黨都不敢再提的宇昌案來繼續抹黑，現在連"蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的"都搬出來，其他就百無顧忌了。大家拭目以待吧。
From: "bing hsieh" <bhsie...@yahoo.com>
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 10:53:51 AM
Subject: Re: [BATA] RE: YouTube: 謝德謙：蔡英文欺台灣人太甚
其實蔡英文本人是不會寫文章的。他是顧用別人(文膽?文癡？)寫的。
可惜因為蔡英文的學位是用錢買來的，所以他不但沒有寫文章的能力，
也沒有分別文章，(或其他事物的優劣)的能力。
這篇文章最多也只是一篇了無創意，了無思想，了無感受，了無人性的，
應景用的樣版文章罷了。
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6138 - Release Date: 02/28/13
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Johnny Shieh
From: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen Kuo
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 9:12 AM
To: luby...@gmail.com; 'i_love_taiwan'; po...@posterous.com; 'Forum NATPA'; bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [BATA] RE: Posting to BATA denied: ??????????????
No virus found in this
message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus
Database: 2641/6138 - Release Date: 02/28/13
Internal Virus Database is out
of date.
bing hsieh
Congratulations to BATA for receiving the honor of being the most controversial forum.
This great accomplishment indicated that BATA is a "freedom" forum,
where opinions of all kinds are disseminated rather than being censored.
In other words, this is NOT a "一言堂" such as the "I_love_Tsai" group.
Allen, Please keep up the great work,
Bing
From: Johnny Shieh <jsh...@mytronics.com>
To: bay-area-taiw...@googlegroups.com; luby...@gmail.com; 'i_love_taiwan' <i_love...@googlegroups.com>; po...@posterous.com; alle...@timebyte.com
Cc: 'Frank S T Hsiao' <frank...@Colorado.EDU>; 'Sidney Chen' <sidn...@sbcglobal.net>; 'RJL WAN' <rjl...@yahoo.com>; 'seiko wu' <se...@taiwanwu.com>; 'Gordon Liu' <gwoch...@yahoo.com>; fc...@hotmail.com
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 2:10 PM
Subject: RE: [BATA] RE: Posting to BATA denied: ??????????????
Allen Kuo
Hi Johnny:
Let's discuss your question one at time. You said:
When a person comments or criticizes you, you always claim that that is a slander to this forum. In order to protect the reputation of this forum, you have been exercising your power and authority to impose disciplinary action against those critics or commentators by denying postings, or worse to expel them.
Can you give any solid example, who, when and the content of the article? I just need one. If you cannot come out any precise answer on this, then there is no need to discuss the rest.
Thank you.
Allen Kuo
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