BarCampBankFlashMeeting6 on P2PMoney - Tuesday March 20, 2007

0 views
Skip to first unread message

freder...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 17, 2007, 9:27:34 AM3/17/07
to BarCampBank
We'll be having soon our 6th BarCampBankFlashMeeting on

Tuesday March 20, 2007 - 9:00pm CET, 8:00pm UK Time, 4:00pm EDT.


Agenda:
-----------
Subject | Length | Comments

1) Introduction | 10 minutes | to get everyone
connected and ready

2) P2PMoney | 60 minutes | discussion on how we could
organize an open project for a pooled payment and revenue system see
P2PMoney for prior-discussion

3) Next steps | at least 10 minutes | before end of the 1:30 hour
booked we will be listing action items for getting the thing going

You can register and get the link to the flashmeeting session on
http://barcamp.org/BarCampBankFlashMeeting6

See you soon on our next flashmeeting,

Frederic Baud

freder...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 21, 2007, 8:55:44 AM3/21/07
to BarCampBank
You can see a replay of the flash meeting on
http://fm-openlearn.open.ac.uk/fm/fmm.php?pwd=b71806-333

We exchanged on the workflows that we would like to be implemented by
a P2PMoney system and agreed that we do not see this implemented in
any of the tools we see close enough to the concept (Fundable,
billMonk,..). In particular, the decision engine (see
http://barcampbank.googlegroups.com/web/P2PMoney+High-level+architecture.png)
seems to be very specific to what we want to achieve (possibility to
prioritize expenses, measure contributions of group members, vote for
expenses, decide transfer shares of a common revenue stream,..), but
we agreed that we should investigate the different existing tools to
see what already exist, can be re-used or used in place of.

The following next steps have been agreed upon:

1) we will investigate the existing solution in the perspective of the
workflows we have described

2) we will report findings and analyses on a Survey page

3) we will build a one-page presentation of the P2PMoney project that
can be publicize

4) we will be contact people from coworking (Tara Hunt, Chris
Messina,..) and open-source projects (Drupal,..) and get their
feedback on the concepts

Sam Rose

unread,
Mar 21, 2007, 5:12:37 PM3/21/07
to BarCampBank
An important function that I just thought of for the transaction
engine of this system is the ability to exchange between P2P money
applications.

For instance, if Barcampbank and another project were both using this
P2P money tool, and we wanted to pay money to them. This might be
trickier than paying out to, or taking money in from paypal or visa,
or bank accounts.

Although, a special function could be set up that would pass commands
between the two applications, so that the system would calculate all
of the individual transactions coming out of one group, then calculate
all of the individual payments to be made to the receiving group.

It will be interesting to talk to some people inolved in programming
ecommerce tools to see how transactions are currently typically
handled. Zen Cart community might be worth talking to as well.

Sam


On Mar 21, 8:55 am, fredericb...@gmail.com wrote:
> You can see a replay of the flash meeting onhttp://fm-openlearn.open.ac.uk/fm/fmm.php?pwd=b71806-333


>
> We exchanged on the workflows that we would like to be implemented by
> a P2PMoney system and agreed that we do not see this implemented in
> any of the tools we see close enough to the concept (Fundable,

> billMonk,..). In particular, the decision engine (seehttp://barcampbank.googlegroups.com/web/P2PMoney+High-level+architect...)

freder...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 5:37:45 AM3/22/07
to BarCampBank
I think that the question looks very much like the typical bank
compensation system: banks do not do transfer between on every
transfering orders but wait the end of the month to aggregate the
transfers and exchange only the difference.

I think that two P2PMoney platforms that agree on a compensation
schedule will still use PayPal or another external vendor to perform
the actual transfer. This implies of course a certain level of trust
between the two and is put in place to lower the fees incurred by
multiple transactions going through PayPal.

The question of compensation between groups on the same platform is
though a possible feature that it could be interesting to anticipate.
I think that compensation within a group could be a good V1.0 and
compensation between groups could come as a V2.0. What do you think?

Sam Rose

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 10:31:18 AM3/22/07
to BarCampBank
Possibly, it depends upon how the actual mechanics of compensation/
transfer between members within a group ends up actually working.

Are we happy with what we currently have at
http://www.wikiservice.at/fractal/wikidev.cgi?EN/BarCampBank/P2PMoney
? Or, do we need to refine it a little? If I recall correctly, this
was step 1 in "what do we do next".

I'm interested in doing and Organized Inquiry as step 2 in "what do we
do next" see: http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/CollectiveProblemSolving/OrganizedInquiryHub
around this before we really get into the nuts and bolts design, so
that we can see what the nuts and bolts of related tools look like.

To do this, we would frame our research around contenxtualizing
questions and then pull and contextualize information from multiple
sources to answer it. I'll create an OrganizedInquiry page for P2P
money on the BarCampBank wiki site, and copy it here under it's own
subject. we can aggregate it all into a kind of Whitepaper report,
with reference to sources.

So, one contenxtualizing question is:

"What currently exists that resembles our P2P money requirements at ,
and how does it actually work?"

We can also add any other questions we have about this. But, I think
rsearchign around questions will help focus our research, and will
help us develop publication quality pages by summarizing that focused
research. Sound good?

I think that step 2.5 could be joining this thread
http://groups.google.com/group/coworking/browse_thread/thread/8ef560e29ad2514
or possibly starting a new one in that group, to see if coworking
people might also have a cursory interest in what we are working on.

In other news, I've also joined the Pay Pal developers network, and
have access to a pay pal sandbox for testing out code, which we can
use eventually.

Frederic Baud

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 11:19:13 AM3/22/07
to BarCampBank
In my mind, the one-pager was maybe step 3, i.e. using the results of
your search to validate what we think P2PMoney is about. Also, I don't
know if we have a one-pager that is sufficiently explicit to outsiders
to use it right now. I started a page on this workgroup
http://groups.google.com/group/barcampbank/web/p2pmoney-one-pager to
start the refinement process. Sam, I see that you worked on the wiki
page. We can coordinate what should be the "official" one, or just
copy the final information in both places.

For "searching and investigating solutions", I didn't know
OrganizedInquiry, but that could indeed be a useful help.

For "surveying and reviewing", I've also created a page on this group
http://groups.google.com/group/barcampbank/web/p2pmoney-industry-watch
It is still rather blank, but I was thinking of reporting some review
of PayPal after having given a more thorough look at their different
solutions (like mass-payments). Again, we can have it in both places
(wiki and this group), if that's more convenient.


I agree that starting discussing P2PMoney on coworking's thread is a
good thing.

Sam Rose

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 11:42:41 AM3/22/07
to BarCampBank
Ok. Maybe we can explicitly lay out what the next steps are, so that
we can all get on the same page? maybe you can list what the next
steps are as you see them, just for clarification purposes.

On Mar 22, 11:19 am, "Frederic Baud" <fredericb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In my mind, the one-pager was maybe step 3, i.e. using the results of
> your search to validate what we think P2PMoney is about. Also, I don't
> know if we have a one-pager that is sufficiently explicit to outsiders
> to use it right now. I started a page on this workgrouphttp://groups.google.com/group/barcampbank/web/p2pmoney-one-pagerto
> start the refinement process. Sam, I see that you worked on the wiki
> page. We can coordinate what should be the "official" one, or just
> copy the final information in both places.
>
> For "searching and investigating solutions", I didn't know
> OrganizedInquiry, but that could indeed be a useful help.
>

> For "surveying and reviewing", I've also created a page on this grouphttp://groups.google.com/group/barcampbank/web/p2pmoney-industry-watch

Frederic Baud

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 11:50:22 AM3/22/07
to BarCampBank
Hi Sam, ok, I thought you were referring to the numbering of the steps
I summarized at the begining of this thread.

I've copied them below.

I agree that we may not have to wait step 4 to start discussing on
coworking forums. But we may start to feed the page "surveying and
reviewing" right now and refine the one-pager along the way. What do
you think?

Frederic

_______________________________________________________________

Sam Rose

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 12:02:21 PM3/22/07
to BarCampBank

On Mar 22, 11:19 am, "Frederic Baud" <fredericb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In my mind, the one-pager was maybe step 3, i.e. using the results of
> your search to validate what we think P2PMoney is about. Also, I don't
> know if we have a one-pager that is sufficiently explicit to outsiders
> to use it right now. I started a page on this workgrouphttp://groups.google.com/group/barcampbank/web/p2pmoney-one-pagerto
> start the refinement process. Sam, I see that you worked on the wiki
> page. We can coordinate what should be the "official" one, or just
> copy the final information in both places.
>

Also, it's cool with me if we copy the final drafts to both places.
That way, people can use either set of web tools. A little extra work,
but not a big deal and worthwhile for maybe getting expanded
participation.


> For "searching and investigating solutions", I didn't know
> OrganizedInquiry, but that could indeed be a useful help.


Right now, all we have to do is think about what our questions are to
help focus our research. What are the questions we ar asking right
now?

I've already got one:

- "What currently exists that resembles our P2P money requirements at
http://www.wikiservice.at/fractal/wikidev.cgi?EN/BarCampBank/P2PMoney,


and how does it actually work?"

Another question might be "who is interested in this, and how does
their interest resonate with our P2P money requirements at
http://www.wikiservice.at/fractal/wikidev.cgi?EN/BarCampBank/P2PMoney
?"

We can add as many questions as you want. although, we can just work
with this one question for now if it is enough. Then we can search for
answers in context of these questions.

See also my responses here:

http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/CollectiveProblemSolving/Discussion_on_OrganizedInquiry

I plan on asking my linkedin network, and other question asking
services, and I plan on creating tags that relate to questions for
ma.gnolia and del.ico.us, and asking people to tag things they fnd
related to this there, too. Plus, we can ask the same questions on
different discussion groups and forums, and then summarize the answers
we get on the wiki, and copy that over to pages we create here in the
google group. Plus, we can create a discussion topic here around each
question, and summarize that discussion on the wiki/copy it here. We
can also pose the question to different wiki communities with
knowledge in this area, and ask them to co-create a page that answers
these questions, and include a rework of those pages. We can also keep
our own survey and review page as we are already doing, of course.

In the end, we will have questions, and summaries of answers, along
with links to the sources where those answers came from. We can then
refine this into a white-paper-type of publication/report about our
findings.

Lion Kimbro might also possibly (hopefully) swing by here and offer
some input about doign an Organized Inquiry. He is the original
inventor of the idea.

I am willing to tend to and coordinate this project over time on
behalf of BarCampBank.

- Sam


>
> For "surveying and reviewing", I've also created a page on this grouphttp://groups.google.com/group/barcampbank/web/p2pmoney-industry-watch

Sam Rose

unread,
Mar 22, 2007, 12:16:51 PM3/22/07
to BarCampBank

On Mar 22, 11:50 am, "Frederic Baud" <fredericb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sam, ok, I thought you were referring to the numbering of the steps
> I summarized at the begining of this thread.
>
> I've copied them below.


Cool, I agree with all of them.

>
> I agree that we may not have to wait step 4 to start discussing on
> coworking forums. But we may start to feed the page "surveying and
> reviewing" right now and refine the one-pager along the way. What do
> you think?


I agree, we should start filling in the surveying and reviewing,
although, I also propose that we combine surveyign and review with
specific organized inquiry questions. A great thing about
contextualizing our research into questions is that the questions give
us a vehicle to immediately start talking to different communities by
asking them these questions. Do you think this will work for P2P money
project?

Sam Rose

unread,
Mar 24, 2007, 11:34:30 AM3/24/07
to BarCampBank
Hey y'all

here's some cross promotion of BarCampBank and OBM wiki hive:

http://www.openbusiness.cc/2007/03/24/invitation-to-the-openbusiness-community/

Also, will post a seperate 1 page description abotu just P2P money by
itself to Openbusiness.cc soon


And, will include the OrganizedInquiry questions.

Frederic Baud

unread,
Mar 24, 2007, 1:28:40 PM3/24/07
to BarCampBank
Hello Sam,

I've seen your questions on Yahoo Answers
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aj21j9oEB9XwhiB7J4fpjwTsy6IX?qid=20070324100835AAXNWOc
. I also received the questions in my LinkedIn inbox. That's great.
I'm eager to see the first results flowing in.

Cheers.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages