barcamp rules

[madCs]

Hello Folks,

I have read the rules on the wiki.
But it seems, that in Hungary, guys mixin different things here :
http://web24.ap.hu/ and I am wondering, wheter they are doing right
with Barcamp culture.
The event has big sponsors- which is not a bad idea.
There are already some keynote speakers- http://web24.ap.hu/eloadok
which is not bad- but sometimes not in align with the original
philosophy...

On the other hand, they are requireing a huge registration free - from
50 euros to 150 + VAT !

I am not sure, but I feel something, that is affecting the Barcamp
philosophy not in a correct way...

Let me recieve some of you thoughts...

Cs

[BarCamp Planners]

In my opinion, keynotes and pre-scheduled slots take away from the equality aspect of BarCamp, where people show up and present about their passions as peers. Keynotes denote a hierarchy or level of status that is the antithesis of BarCamp spirit.

I understand that events will try to use keynotes to draw people in or increase interest, but that again is not the point of a BarCamp. Indeed, you might as well just do a conference with open space on the side if you're going to have a format like that.

And rather than be opposed to the idea of keynotes (I don't really care -- it's up to the organizers) I think the point is that keynotes detract from individuals who are just as worthy to be up on stage but, for whatever reason, haven't found an audience yet. BarCamp should be about celebrating new and undiscovered talent -- not just propping up established names.

So, that's what I think. Happy to hear other folks' thoughts of course.

Chris

--

Chris

--
Chris Messina
Citizen-Participant &
 Open Web Advocate-at-Large

factoryjoe.com # diso-project.org
citizenagency.com # vidoop.com
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[Alex de Carvalho]

I second Chris's thoughts. Rather than accepting keynotes, we encourage everyone to think about what they would like to present and to prepare their presentations in advance. This way, the BarCamp grid gets filled up and the quality of presentations is better. 

For the second time, we're using a flat $300 sponsorship model to avoid hierarchy among sponsors and requests to be keynoters. So far, 15 companies have sponsored and we expect 5 more will come on board by the time we run the event. The low sponsorship level allows local startups to give back to the community and to see their names on posters and t-shirts on a par with some of the bigger companies.

We do not charge for admission, to give everyone the opportunity to participate in what we understand is a community event.

-Alex

BarCampMiami.org

@alexdc

[BarCamp Planners]

+1 to what Alex said.

The original BarCamp limited sponsorships to $200 so that individuals could make a meaningful financial contribution -- even if it meant just buying a case of beer -- along with bigger companies.

Another reason why keynotes and the hierarchy they bring are bad is because it makes it harder to fork the model -- that is, no one should be able to monopolize a local BarCamp. If someone runs it one year and then someone else wants to run a different one six months later, they should be able to. Starting off with keynotes sets the bar and expectations at an unreasonable level for what should be a low-cost, low-overhead event.

KISS.

Chris

[Laura Hale]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:03 PM, BarCamp Planners <bar...@gmail.com> wrote:

In my opinion, keynotes and pre-scheduled slots take away from the equality aspect of BarCamp, where people show up and present about their passions as peers. Keynotes denote a hierarchy or level of status that is the antithesis of BarCamp spirit.

I understand that events will try to use keynotes to draw people in or increase interest, but that again is not the point of a BarCamp. Indeed, you might as well just do a conference with open space on the side if you're going to have a format like that.

That kind of goes along with my views.  That said, I'm helping put together a barcamp ( http://barcamp.org/Camp+Fandom+20 ) where we've got scheduling before hand and we're trying to prod some people to sign up for slots as the community we're aiming for is really new to the BarCamp model, we don't necesarily have the community credibility to get people there based on us saying it is going on (and BarCamps are awesome.  Trust us) and we're trying to get some people from out of town.  You can still sign up day of.  We're just afraid with a blank schedule, people will think that no one is going to show up so they won't show up... :/

But we're committed to not charging and I think charging is not something BarCamps should be doing.  It is one thing to ask for donations at the door but another to demand it up front.  If you're organizing, you just have to keep prodding to see if some one will give you the space to host it or be willing to shell out those conference space costs on your own.  The BarCamp site gives a budget to give an idea of how much costs that a person might have to outlay and if you can't risk that, can't find sponsors who are okay with the model?  It might be a clue that the model won't work for you.

Sincerely,
Laura Hale
http://www.fanhistory.com

[Madarász Csaba]

Good to here you opinion!

But here - the 300 dollars are for the individual registration, who would like to enter in the previous days.
And I call among the keynote speakers (only they are the visible ones) there are the CEO-s of big internet and IT companies.
I am sad :(

At least, the logo must be taken away from them - unless, people would think, this is barcamp!
They gonna "sell" this event for their higly paid media folks, in the heart of Budapest, in one of the most expensive cafe...

The good thing is, that in Latvia there is going to be a different one at the begining of February..

By the way, what can the official BarCamp react to this?
if there is such ;)

Csaba
Alex de Carvalho írta:

[BarCamp Planners]

I think that's part of the point.

BarCamp is not trademarked -- it relies on the community to rise up and enforce the proper use of the mark -- and hence is licensed under a "community mark" (a term that I invented):

http://barcamp.org/What%20is%20a%20Community%20Mark%3F

http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/01/14/the-case-for-community-marks/ 

Previously under similar situations, members of the BarCamp community have reached out individually to organizers and asked them to not call the event a BarCamp. If indeed these folks are charging for the event and having keynotes, then it's NOT a BarCamp. It's something else. And should be called something else, or people are going to be disappointed.

Since I can't read that site, it's hard for me to tell if the event is simply called Web 2.0 Symposium -- and that they're hosting a BarCamp.

If the BarCamp is separate from the main event -- and free and open to all attendees, that might be okay. However, they probably will have more trademark problems with O'Reilly than with the BarCamp community. Still, I encourage you to write the organizers and inform them about the expectations for a BarCamp -- based on the hundreds that have come before.

Chris

[Christopher St John]

+1 on from me as well on Alex's comments.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Laura Hale <la...@fanhistory.com> wrote:
>
> That kind of goes along with my views. That said, I'm helping put together
> a barcamp ( http://barcamp.org/Camp+Fandom+20 ) where we've got scheduling
> before hand and we're trying to prod some people to sign up for slots as the
> community we're aiming for is really new to the BarCamp model, we don't
> necesarily have the community credibility to get people there based on us
> saying it is going on (and BarCamps are awesome. Trust us) and we're trying
> to get some people from out of town. You can still sign up day of. We're
> just afraid with a blank schedule, people will think that no one is going to
> show up so they won't show up... :/
>

Trust your users! :-) That was a _big_ worry at the first BarCamp in
Dallas, and in fact the planners originally were going to go with
advance signup for some slots for the very reasons you mention. Luckily,
we had an attack of courage and decided not to. People got it
right away, it was no problem, and in fact I think advance signups
would have made it harder, by sending a mixed message. YMMV.

> But we're committed to not charging and I think charging is not something
> BarCamps should be doing. It is one thing to ask for donations at the door
> but another to demand it up front.
>

I think I wouldn't entirely agree. At least, I think it's fair to do things
like charge for t-shirts and other extras. And with larger events,
(200+) the venue can become expensive. Asking people
to defray the cost seems fair. I like the rule of thumb that says
that monetary considerations should never be a barrier to anyone,
but that leaves open a $5 charge with maybe a workaround like
free entry for students or a (private) opt-out for anyone who just
doesn't want to pay.

-cks

--
Christopher St. John
http://praxisbridge.com

[Madarász Csaba]

Thanks for the fast feedback.

I personally do not want to hack these guys, but it would worth to give some mirror to some of the people, who think, that they can hide in the language background -
or hopefully not communicating something right.(the barcamp is mixed with the simposyum. it is advertised, that it is a barcamp, and says things, that are happening on barcamps-
and it is connected to regsitration. it does not matter you present or not, you have to register and pay -at least 100 maximum 300 Euros (max. more than 400 dollars)

I might do, to write about it, but I assume, that they will not change - unless:

• a significant amount of users not starting to comment on their site
• you do not write to them, to give detailed information about the event's characteristics (btw, it would be good to have some sort of summary format of different barcamps)

What is the trademark problem with O'Reilly?

Csaba
BarCamp Planners írta:

[BarCamp Planners]

I think that local complaints will go a lot further for your cause, but the funny thing is -- if they embraced more of the BarCamp spirit -- and made it free -- the BarCamp community would embrace them back. I think that's got to be the message that you send to the organizers. It's really in their best interest to make it more open and accessible! It's a great benefit to bring more people to the event, even if they're not paying, because it benefits the sponsors...!

Still, I'd encourage you to look around the BarCamp wiki at previous BarCamps and then write a blog post describing your understanding of a BarCamp, what kind of experience you want from a BarCamp and how the one at the Web 2.0 Symposium sounds like it differs from what you want.

The problem with O'Reilly is that they own "Web 2.0" when applied to any kind of conference or event. So they'll be changing their name regardless I would imagine.

http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/05/web-20-service-mark-controvers.html

Chris

[Laura Hale]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Christopher St John <ckst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Trust your users! :-) That was a _big_ worry at the first BarCamp in
Dallas, and in fact the planners originally were going to go with
advance signup for some slots for the very reasons you mention. Luckily,
we had an attack of courage and decided not to. People got it
right away, it was no problem, and in fact I think advance signups
would have made it harder, by sending a mixed message. YMMV.

I think I wouldn't entirely agree. At least, I think it's fair to do things

I attended SocialDevCamp in Chicago and it had a schedule.  It felt a bit better than BarCamp Chicago just in terms of the turn out, the conversations that people had, etc.  I've seen the open source model really work for RecentChangesCamp and it was really fantastic but that community is built totally on collaboration. This instance?  Not so much the case and much more than anything, the fandom community model for these things seems to be built on guests. :/  We've got two real big rooms for presentations and about three smaller ones.  We're still playing around with what to do with those but one option is always "Sign up day of."
 

 And with larger events,
(200+) the venue can become expensive.

How do most people get a guage of how many people are going to show up for their BarCamp when they've never hosted one before? 

I know for the one I wanted to host, I knew that unless I got the space for free, I wasn't going to be able to host one... and I made a point of tracking down the people through people I knew to get it.  Universities, community colleges, businesses operating in the field are all places to go to for free space...
 

Asking people
to defray the cost seems fair. I like the rule of thumb that says
that monetary considerations should never be a barrier to anyone,
but that leaves open a $5 charge with maybe a workaround like
free entry for students or a (private) opt-out for anyone who just
doesn't want to pay.

Asking, not demanding, is yeah, huge.  SocialDevCamp didn't charge but you'd be surprised at how many people gave.  I helped man the registration table.  (Because w00t! networking and seeing what was going on.  Also learned a lot about the model.)  Most people seemed to give $20.  There wasn't any request for specific amounts.

Sincerely,
Laura Hale
http://www.fanhistory.com/

[BarCamp Planners]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Laura Hale <la...@fanhistory.com> wrote:

I attended SocialDevCamp in Chicago and it had a schedule.  It felt a bit better than BarCamp Chicago just in terms of the turn out, the conversations that people had, etc.  I've seen the open source model really work for RecentChangesCamp and it was really fantastic but that community is built totally on collaboration. This instance?  Not so much the case and much more than anything, the fandom community model for these things seems to be built on guests. :/  We've got two real big rooms for presentations and about three smaller ones.  We're still playing around with what to do with those but one option is always "Sign up day of."

I do think that different communities and different scale events require different kinds of facilitation. I think it's great if you can embrace the chaos and just see what emerges and what people write down to sessions -- but if it's a crowd totally new to the concept of BarCamp or open space, you might want to lead with a few prescheduled warm-ups. The majority of the event should be emergent though, in order to really give people the message that "they are the event".

In fact, I've commonly said that the sessions are really just a pretext for getting people together in a space to talk freely about their passions without inhibition!

 

 

 And with larger events,
(200+) the venue can become expensive.

How do most people get a guage of how many people are going to show up for their BarCamp when they've never hosted one before? 

For me, I'll look at overall signups and estimate that between 50-60% will show up. That's historically how's it gone.

There are techniques, like limiting attendance, or by doing a lot of email/Twitter/IM outreach before the event that will increase these numbers -- so I'd recommend planning your communications strategy in advance of even getting started.

 

Chris 

[Laura Hale]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM, BarCamp Planners <bar...@gmail.com> wrote:

For me, I'll look at overall signups and estimate that between 50-60% will show up. That's historically how's it gone.

There are techniques, like limiting attendance, or by doing a lot of email/Twitter/IM outreach before the event that will increase these numbers -- so I'd recommend planning your communications strategy in advance of even getting started.

Space isn't an issue so no need to limit attendance. We're two months out and one of the issues that came up was one of the people who is helping with planning was going to try to reach out to possible sponsors.  He wanted to know how many people we were projecting  so he could tell that to those potential sponsors.  Having not seen a BarCamp on this particular niche before, it isn't something that I could easily project.  We had a similar question in terms of when we were getting the space.  I've been low balling it because I have no clue how effective our outreach will be.  So yeah, interested in the preplanning before sign up projections.