New Frozen Pensions petition

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Paul Swain

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Jan 14, 2022, 3:45:09 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Hi Everyone!

There is a new frozen pensions petition on the UK Houses of Parliament
petitions site: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821/

Please sign it if you can, and ask your eligible friends and colleagues
to sign it too.  It's got 2,131 signatures at the moment, so it's doing
pretty well.

Note that no one seems to know why it has been set up, or whether there
is a group backing it.  This comment
https://aseannow.com/topic/1241352-uk-pension-parity-for-british-expats/
suggests that it might have come out of Thailand, but there is nothing
definite about that, so if you have any information about who has
organised it, please do let us know.

Thanks


Paul



Richard Hyde

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:34:20 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Thanks for that Paul we have both. duly signed
The number was 2144 & 2146 so let’s all of us try to get the magical number of 10000
Regards & thanks Richard & Angela
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> On 14 Jan 2022, at 7:45 pm, Paul Swain <ata...@zaparaxy.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone!
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Linda OBrien

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:34:32 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Done and done by husband too. They need 10,000 signatures!!!!!!,

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> On 14 Jan 2022, at 4:45 pm, Paul Swain <ata...@zaparaxy.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone!

Linda OBrien

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:34:46 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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We need as many people to sign this petition, please spread the word


At 10,000 signatures...

At 10,000 signatures, government will respond to this petition

At 100,000 signatures...

At 100,000 signatures, this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament


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On 14 Jan 2022, at 4:45 pm, Paul Swain <ata...@zaparaxy.net> wrote:

Hi Everyone!

Sheila Whyte

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:47:49 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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I tried to sign the petition..as a UK national..but it asked for
 a postcode.. and obviously was looking for a UK one..which i do not know or remember .what must I do? Please
Sheila whyte

Paul Swain

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:51:57 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Sheila Whyte wrote on 14/01/2022 8:41 pm:

> I tried to sign the petition..as a UK national..but it asked for
>  a postcode.. and obviously was looking for a UK one..which i do not
> know or remember .what must I do?


Hi Sheila!

If you know your old address, you can look up its postcode at
https://www.royalmail.com/find-a-postcode


Paul

Sheila Lean

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:53:01 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Is the petition for all frozen pensioners or only for British citizens? 

I would like to sign as I worked in and made mandatory contributed contributions without ever being advised it would be frozen.er

A previous comment referred to citizenship and just as I feel it is grossly unfair to deny pensioners increases afforded to pensioners living in selective countries, I also feel it is unfair that only selective persioners can sign.

With or without me, good luck.

Sheila 



Paul Swain

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Jan 14, 2022, 5:01:13 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Sheila Lean wrote on 14/01/2022 8:50 pm:

Is the petition for all frozen pensioners or only for British citizens? 

I would like to sign as I worked in and made mandatory contributed contributions without ever being advised it would be frozen.er


Hi Sheila L!

You need to be a British citizen or UK resident to sign the petition.  If that doesn't apply to you, maybe you know people who are whom you can encourage to sign.

I agree that the wording of the petition is unfortunate since it only refers to U.K. citizens living abroad, but hopefully if the petition has any effect, all frozen pensioners will be unfrozen.


Paul

Sheila Whyte

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Jan 14, 2022, 5:02:15 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Thank you..yes I know that ! Will follow up

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Tony Barnett

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Jan 14, 2022, 5:02:33 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Rising slowly, just signed 2168.

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> On 14 Jan 2022, at 8:34 pm, 'Richard Hyde' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks for that Paul we have both. duly signed
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bapanews/FC0E1BA2-19DC-49C6-A4CE-E65D5DED9A30%40icloud.com.

JO ODDIE

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Jan 14, 2022, 5:11:28 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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I think I’m 2175. Thanks Paul.

Jo

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> On 14 Jan 2022, at 21:02, 'Tony Barnett' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Rising slowly, just signed 2168.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bapanews/82DC6369-D29A-47D2-B3EB-690F82AC52AA%40me.com.

Tony Barnett

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:04:51 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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I just signed and used my Aussie postcode. Did you select Australia as the country you live in?

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On 14 Jan 2022, at 9:02 pm, Sheila Whyte <sheila....@gmail.com> wrote:



John Wilson

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:05:07 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Done.

 

And shared on Facebook.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

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The Geoghegans

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:05:17 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Both my wife Eileen and I have signed,

John Geoghegan.     2174 and 2175.

John Wilson

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:05:31 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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FYI. Before I added my postcode, I first ensured that I changed the location to : Australia : where I currently live. I then entered my current (Australian) postcode.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

Sheila Whyte

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Jan 14, 2022, 6:09:18 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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I have just signed.it would not accept an Aussie postcode.i had to find my last UK postcode by searching UK postcodes with last UK address..on line
Sheila whyte

David Weston

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Jan 14, 2022, 7:38:36 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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You can sign if you are resident in the UK. If you live anywhere else, click on the country and scan down the list (of all countries) and select yours. It will then be possible to enter your post code in the format used there.

NB. Please delete my email address before forwarding this. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 14, 2022, at 4:51 AM, Paul Swain <ata...@zaparaxy.net> wrote:
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Bruce Englefield

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Jan 14, 2022, 10:38:42 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Both my wife and I signed. 2211 and 2214

Bruce and Maureen Englefield

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Marianne

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Jan 14, 2022, 10:38:56 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Sorry, I did this earlier and hubby not long ago but I didn’t take note of our numbers 

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Tony OMahony

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Jan 14, 2022, 10:39:08 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Done.

Thanks Paul for the tip.


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blass

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Jan 14, 2022, 10:39:23 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Sheila
Although I am in Australia I am still a British citizen so that was fine to tick that box. I gave my Australian post code and country and it was all accepted.
My number was 2254, so creeping up.
Cheers
Barbara


Sent from my Galaxy


-------- Original message --------
From: Sheila Whyte <sheila....@gmail.com>
Date: 14/1/22 19:53 (GMT+10:00)
Subject: Re: [bapanews] New Frozen Pensions petition

Chris Bolt

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Jan 14, 2022, 11:41:53 AM (8 days ago) Jan 14
to 'JO ODDIE' via BAPA
2330 for me

Annie Cory

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Jan 14, 2022, 4:18:49 PM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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I used my Australian postcode and it was accepted


Annie Cory from my iPhone

On 14 Jan 2022, at 19:53, Sheila Lean <sheil...@gmail.com> wrote:



mary barber

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Jan 14, 2022, 9:28:42 PM (8 days ago) Jan 14
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Australian post code accepted.I am number 2570.come on people get friends to vote as well. Cheers Andra

 

From: 'Annie Cory' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 15 January 2022 7:49 AM
To: bapa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bapanews] New Frozen Pensions petition

 

I used my Australian postcode and it was accepted

Elaine Pyne

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Jan 15, 2022, 1:02:00 AM (8 days ago) Jan 15
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All signed.  

Sent from my iPad

On 14 Jan 2022, at 8:04 pm, 'Linda OBrien' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Tony OMahony

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Jan 15, 2022, 1:02:28 AM (8 days ago) Jan 15
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My understanding is that if you paid social security contributions out of your pay you are eligible. I am eligible for a half-pension in view of the short time I worked there. So I get a half-frozen pension.

Tony



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Sue Haynes

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Jan 15, 2022, 1:02:43 AM (8 days ago) Jan 15
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Thanks for forwarding this information.  My husband & I have signed: 2622 & 2625.
Numbers going up as we speak!


From: 'Annie Cory' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2022 5:18:43 AM
To: bapa...@googlegroups.com <bapa...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [bapanews] New Frozen Pensions petition

Marion Dunn

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Jan 15, 2022, 1:02:53 AM (8 days ago) Jan 15
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I have signed number 2667

Sent from my iPad

Richard Denton

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Jan 15, 2022, 1:51:30 AM (8 days ago) Jan 15
to 'clive walford' via BAPA
I have signed and have posted this message on facebook…


ahimt4u7p17iscioth5rheldc1 
Shared with Public
Public
There's a quarter million British nationals living in Australia that paid their National Insurance contributions when they were working in the UK. They should be paid their full British Pensions no matter where they live in the world. They should not be discriminated with frozen pensions because they live in Australia or NZ or Canada. If they live in the USA their pensions are not frozen... work that one out! C'mon everybody sign the petition. Get rid of this outdated British Imperial legacy treating British citizens living in Commonwealth counties differently than any other country.
Petition: Give U.K. pensioners living abroad increases with parity as those in the U.K.


Terry Stretton

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Jan 16, 2022, 3:00:43 AM (6 days ago) Jan 16
to 'Richard Hyde' via BAPA
Hi Richard

Petition signed No 2677

Regards

Terry Stretton

On 14/01/2022 8:28 pm, 'Richard Hyde' via BAPA wrote:
> Thanks for that Paul we have both. duly signed
> The number was 2144 & 2146 so let’s all of us try to get the magical number of 10000
> Regards & thanks Richard & Angela
> Sent from my iPad
>

Tony OMahony

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Jan 16, 2022, 3:01:15 AM (6 days ago) Jan 16
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well said.

I have a friend also of UK origins. Your words have prompted me to write to her and urge her to sign. I'll also to go through my address book for any others who may have worked in the UK.

Thanks
Tony



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Alison and Mike

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Jan 16, 2022, 3:01:26 AM (6 days ago) Jan 16
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Signed 2899

Regards

 

Alison Worsnop

mob 0417 881 854




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This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com


Richard Denton

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Jan 16, 2022, 6:04:49 PM (6 days ago) Jan 16
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I am adding this exchange on Facebook to keep you informed. Responses have been from Denmark and a UK resident. My arguments are with the UK resident who will I feel represent a common state of mind amongst the general population. Anyway read on or ring your hands… getting through to the ‘flat earth’ mindset is akin to drinking gravy with a fork!

My Post: There's a quarter million British nationals living in Australia that paid their National Insurance contributions when they were working in the UK. They should be paid their full British Pensions no matter where they live in the world. They should not be discriminated with frozen pensions because they live in Australia or NZ or Canada. If they live in the USA their pensions are not frozen... work that one out! C'mon everybody sign the petition. Get rid of this outdated British Imperial legacy treating British citizens living in Commonwealth counties differently than any other country.

From Denmark: Agree to this crazy rules - get it revised and updated.

From Denmark: Another task for the British government to deal with. They have their hands full just now!

From UK: Good luck with that. It's unfair but we're facing a massive increase in the cost of living here and there's no votes for British MPs in Australia.

My Post: I know. COL increasing rapidly here too. It’s a global thing including China! Doesn’t alter the fact that successive British governments have been and continue to be duplicitous and discriminatory … and they know it! BTW I get a small French pension and it receives the annual inflation index adjustment treated the same as any other tax payer in France. The French do not discriminate on where the pensioner lives.

From UK: It's been like this for 70 years and every government since then has taken a hard line on it. Apparently it would cost up to £500m p.a. a year to bring them into line with our current rates so nothing is going to change unless the foreign governments can offer something in exchange.

My Post: It costs the Australian government something in the order of $200mi subsidising the British nationals pensions. But that is truly perfidious albion. All British citizens who worked in the uk contributed to the national pension fund. That some retired or decided to live their later lives overseas is a monumental red herring. If they live in Spain or USA or Cyprus they get their pension exactly the same as if they live in Bournemouth. If they live in Wogga Wogga or New London they don’t. It is discrimination and there is no logical rational explanation for it. No other western democracy discriminates their overseas citizens like the UK does. All British citizens have paid into the fund the same. I have 40 years of contributions as an example. The fund has about GBP20bn so it’s factually a big porky to trot out the old line “we don’t have enough money” The fund has been raided by successive governments to subsidize spending elsewhere Trident comes to mind. It is choices. The UK cannot bully the USA nor the EU but it can and does the Commonwealth. It shelters behind lies and untruths. It is morally bankrupt.

From UK: Actually the NI Fund had £42.4bn in it at 31/03/2021 but it doesn't matter which pocket the cash would come from the Govt would still have to tell people we're going to pay half a billion a year extra out now to people who decided they want to live somewhere else. We aready have the lowest rate of pensions to average earnings in the advanced economies. Regrettably that's not good politics or it would have been done a long time ago.

My Post: The government cannot dodge the fact that it treats it’s pensioners differently according to where they live. If you live in the Phillipines you get your indexed pension if you live in Jakarta your pension is frozen. If you are an elected member of parliament you get all your bells and whistles but if you’re an 80 year old pensioner in Bermagui you are stuck on your frozen pension of £72/wk and the UK govn has the gall to say tough you will die soon and we’ll be off the hook. The position of the govn is indefensible.

My Post: I don’t have all the details to hand but believe the government lost the case brought to court in the UK many years ago by a British pensioner living in South Africa. The govn then took the case to the European court which found in favour of the UK in a majority decision (not unanimous) with the ruling that the UK had the right to make its own policies etc for its own citizens. It was a narrow decision skillfully manouvered by the govn legal people who circumvented the issue of discrimination. The govn see they have an open and shut case. A good legal mind could blow holes in the govn position but bringing the case back to the European court probably impossible. The Australian and Canadian governments have attempted to reach an agreement with the UK but have been stonewalled. They have found themselves subsidising British pensioners to the tune of many hundreds of millions $$ and no contribution from the pensioners. The pensioners of course having contributed to the UK pension during their working lives. The ultra basic point to understand is that all British citizens have paid in to the National Insurance Fund to provide them with a basic pension in their later years. The pension has been contributary. It is not paid out of general tax revenue. Thus there should be no discrimination in pension payments no matter where the pensioner lives.

Sent from my iPhone X

Barbara Lassiter

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Jan 17, 2022, 2:07:56 AM (6 days ago) Jan 17
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Well said, Alison.  
Another point you could have made to the UK commentator was that all those living in Australia, NZ and Canada and some other Commonwealth countries is that those expat pensioners have saved the UK Govt thousands of pounds by not claiming all the extras such as heating, National Health cover etc and all other residential pension support.  As you will see in the Which report link, £1.8 bn was left unclaimed and probably this is something that happens regularly, so the argument there isn’t the money is just a convenient smoke screen.
cheers
Barbara



Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/06/nine-pensioner-perks-and-benefits-to-boost-your-income/ - Which?


Barbara Lassiter

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Jan 17, 2022, 2:08:12 AM (6 days ago) Jan 17
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Sorry Richard
My email should have been addressed to you and not Alison; whose email was just below yours and I guess I became confused.  Not surprising at my age, but there you go! :)
I heartily cheer your sentiments.
Cheers
Barbara

On 17 Jan 2022, at 9:04 am, 'Richard Denton' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Richard Denton

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Jan 17, 2022, 1:52:48 PM (5 days ago) Jan 17
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Further updates….

From UK: I have signed the petition. That's 3,143 so far. It needs 100,000 before it wil be considered for debate. I don't think it will make any difference though. From the way they have responded  in the past nothing is going to make the the Government change its mind now whatever the rights and wrongs. They just say it's a longstanding arrangement going back 70 years for countries with no reciprocal agreements but then they don't seem to want to sign one including with Canada. The Australian Government could have used the Trade Agreement talks as a lever but chose not to.

My Post: Thanks for signing. As Tesco says “every little helps”. A few years ago I got quite invloved and wrote some persuasive letters to the Queen, PM Cameron, PM May and a raft of MEPs and cabinet MPs. Received expressions of sympathy but no commitments to do anything concrete. So here we are now and other more pressing matters confronting the UK…. but we’ll keep on keeping on.


Sent from my iPhone X

On 14 Jan 2022, at 9:01 pm, Paul Swain <ata...@zaparaxy.net> wrote:



Sheila Lean wrote on 14/01/2022 8:50 pm:

Is the petition for all frozen pensioners or only for British citizens? 

I would like to sign as I worked in and made mandatory contributed contributions without ever being advised it would be frozen.er


Hi Sheila L!

You need to be a British citizen or UK resident to sign the petition.  If that doesn't apply to you, maybe you know people who are whom you can encourage to sign.

I agree that the wording of the petition is unfortunate since it only refers to U.K. citizens living abroad, but hopefully if the petition has any effect, all frozen pensioners will be unfrozen.


Paul

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alexander whitehead

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Jan 18, 2022, 2:26:02 AM (5 days ago) Jan 18
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I BEEN WRITING TO EVERY PRIME MINISTER FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS WITHOUT REPLY I AM 89 YRS OF AGE SO HOW MUCH DO THEY OWE ME ????????? CONFUCIUS SAY  . IF YOU SHOUT IN A EMPTY BUCKET ALL YOU GET IS A LOUD NOISE BUT NO REPLY .LETS FILL THE BUCKET WITH WATER AND MAKE A PLASH .VOTE VOTE VOTE   ALEX W

Tony OMahony

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Jan 18, 2022, 2:26:28 AM (5 days ago) Jan 18
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In politics everything is "pressing". One wise (Aus) minister once said "the important gives way to the urgent".

It is simply unacceptable to take that line about having many issues to deal with. That's what governing is all about.

We have a contradiction here in that expats who have chosen to retire to Spain (and the sun) are paid indexed pensions despite the UK having brexited. What's the consistency in that? The policy decision was simply to keep those pensioners quiet.

The Aus government's silence on that topic in the free trade negotiations needs to be revisited and that can only come from people who vote here for/against that government - us. So we have to organise a petition here too.

Tony O'Mahony




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Billy Tobin

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Jan 18, 2022, 2:26:42 AM (5 days ago) Jan 18
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Me, my wife and my mother in law all signed - perseverance can pay off, but I wont hold my breath ...

thank you, regards Billy Tobin

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Paul Swain
Sent: Friday, 14 January 2022 7:45 PM
To: bapa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [bapanews] New Frozen Pensions petition

 

Hi Everyone!

There is a new frozen pensions petition on the UK Houses of Parliament
petitions site: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821/

Please sign it if you can, and ask your eligible friends and colleagues
to sign it too.  It's got 2,131 signatures at the moment, so it's doing
pretty well.

Note that no one seems to know why it has been set up, or whether there
is a group backing it.  This comment
https://aseannow.com/topic/1241352-uk-pension-parity-for-british-expats/
suggests that it might have come out of Thailand, but there is nothing
definite about that, so if you have any information about who has
organised it, please do let us know.

Thanks


Paul



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