Annual Christmas discrimination

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Paul Swain

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Nov 14, 2021, 2:04:52 AMNov 14
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Hi Everyone!

Just saw this report on the annual Christmas bonus that UK State Pensioners in

  • The UK
  • The Channel Islands
  • The Isle of Man
  • Gibraltar
  • Switzerland
  • Any European Economic Area (EEA) country

get - see https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16713379/millions-state-pension-christmas-bonus-2021-date-paid/

I know that it's only £10, but I hadn't heard about it before.

I guess that at least we can be comforted that pensioners outside of Europe also miss out.


Paul

John Wilson

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Nov 14, 2021, 10:40:22 AMNov 14
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Hello everyone,

 

Just a ‘heads-up’ to share that (as an individual) I’ve emailed the below content to mo...@the-sun.co.uk

 

Hi,

 

Just seen the below article on your website.

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16713379/millions-state-pension-christmas-bonus-2021-date-paid/

 

Talk about ‘rubbing salt into a wound’.

 

Do you, and your readers, realise that hundreds of thousands of other people who during their working life (including, sadly now dwindling numbers of, service personnel during WW2) paid the compulsory NIC (National Insurance Contributions) are excluded?

 

The exclusion doesn’t just apply to such (one-off) initiatives.

 

The same people also only found out, after eventually retiring, that they are no longer entitled to receive the same DWP payments as other people who made the same (or very similar) payments into the NIC scheme.

 

You may well ask why?

 

The reason is simple.

 

Apparently, according to UK government policy decisions, they (before, or even after, retiring) had the ‘audacity’ to move and now live other than in the UK.

 

The discrimination doesn’t just end there.

 

It can be also, quite specifically, depend on their exact geographical location. 

 

For example, former UK residents who now (as retirees) live in either Detroit (Michigan, US of A) or literally across the border in Windsor (Ontario, Canada) will/do get different amounts paid (having made identical amounts into the NIC over identical periods of time) by DWP now based only on their current location.

 

If they are in Detroit (i.e. anywhere in US of A) their payments from the DWP will increase annually (as if they were still resident in UK) but if they are in Windsor (i.e. anywhere in Canada, or many other Commonwealth country) then they get no such increase (unless of course they are forced to relocate elsewhere (such over the border, back to UK or one of a ‘few’ chosen countries based on the UK Government ‘whims list’.) due to a lack of finance in their remaining twilight years.

 

Bizarrely, if they even relocated for a short period (e.g. their now grown children paid for them to travel to spend time with the grand kids) they would ‘magically’ be paid the appropriate increased payment amount. That, of course, is assuming they knew how to do so and able submit a fully completely correct application to the DWP in the (short) time available. 

 

If you want to help and make a real difference to such people’s lives (especially ex-veterans personnel) why not bring this discriminatory issue to the attention of general public?

 

Hopefully yours,

 

John Wilson

 

 

 

I don’t expect a reply back, from mo...@the-sun.co.uk

 

However life does provide often expected surprises.

 

Bye for now,

 

John (w.)

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

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Richard Denton

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Nov 14, 2021, 6:43:21 PMNov 14
to 'JO ODDIE' via BAPA
Morning John et al,

You care for further salt rubbing? I worked in France for 8 years and contributed to the French social security system. I get a small pension and receive the annual uplift paid without question to my bank here in Australia. The French do not discriminate according to the country residence of their pensioners. Furthermore the French on line service treats their pensioners with courtesy and friendliness always keeping us informed of matters of interest. 

Richard


Tony Walsh

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Nov 14, 2021, 6:47:52 PMNov 14
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Hi Paul

 

Are we sure that the USA is missed out or has the Sun made a mistake?

 

Tony

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Paul Swain
Sent: Sunday, 14 November 2021 6:07 PM
To: bapa...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [bapanews] Annual Christmas discrimination

 

Hi Everyone!

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Chris Hill

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Nov 14, 2021, 9:53:47 PMNov 14
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Just out of interest the French Ambassador arranged for all French Expats in Thailand to get Covid vaccinations. The British Ambassador in Thailand told his expats that the NHS does not operate in Thailand!!!
Fortunately the British Chamber of Commerce in Thailand was sufficiently embarrassed by this that they arranged the said vaccinations. More power to them!
I think there is something in the British Public School system that encourages rigid self interest to the detriment of fellow citizens.
Chris

Richard Denton

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Nov 14, 2021, 10:29:52 PM (13 days ago) Nov 14
to 'JO ODDIE' via BAPA
Imperial power legacy. Listen here chaps we converted the heathen and taught them all English and established new countries where there was sparse occupation. So we did and we set the rules and in all our dominions and possessions we told them to follow our direction, keep a tight hold on your money and don’t feather bed new settlers. Anyway the new settlers have so much scope to do well in plenty of space and unlimited sunshine and don’t need us back in the Foreign Office to prop them up. Seriously a majority of Britons think we’re better off than they are and think its the New World responsibility to look after its new citizens. Something like that!
Richard

Bruce Englefield

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Nov 15, 2021, 1:31:39 AM (13 days ago) Nov 15
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Afternoon Richard, John et al.

Yes, I know where I would like to stuff a pound of salt!!

This morning I went to see my federal MP and presented her with a copy of the Frozen Pension booklet that was given to the British PM. I also presented a breakdown of my estimate of the nearly 6 billion AUD revenue that Australia could receive via ex UK pensioners if their UK pensions were index linked. I suggested that the Labour Party might think about putting something in their next election manifesto stating that they would take this issue seriously and enter meaningful negotiations with the UK government. 250,000 votes might be useful. As members of the Liberal Party we are disgusted at the weakness of Simon Birmingham and his total failure to include the frozen pensions issue in the recent trade negotiations. France, Germany, Spain etc did and they achieved an indexing for their ex UK Pats.

Whilst on the subject of elections is it correct that ex pats will be able to vote in the next UK elections?

Regards

Bruce.



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On 15 Nov 2021, at 10:43, 'Richard Denton' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Morning John et al,

Paul Swain

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Nov 15, 2021, 1:39:30 AM (13 days ago) Nov 15
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Tony Walsh wrote on 15/11/2021 10:47 am:

Are we sure that the USA is missed out or has the Sun made a mistake?

Hi Tony!

I was relying on The Sun to get it right, and checking, it looks like they were generally correct https://www.gov.uk/christmas-bonus/eligibility

There is a question about people in the EU, but it looks way too difficult to check that, so I'm not going to bother.


Paul


Chris Hill

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Nov 15, 2021, 3:12:29 AM (13 days ago) Nov 15
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Hi-yes UK Expats can vote for 15 yrs after they leave the UK. Bojo promised to remove the 15 yr restriction but you know what his promises are worth.
In my case unfortunately I am on the electoral register for a true blue constituency where the present incumbent is only concerned with her political career. The French system of having one MP representing all expats is much fairer but the UK don't bother with fairness, morality, and the plight of destitute expats.
Regards Chris

clive walford

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Nov 16, 2021, 10:26:56 AM (12 days ago) Nov 16
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[bapanews] Annual Christmas discrimination

The government, or should I say the Tory party, in its manifesto 12 years ago promised to remove the 15 year voting rule. Boris promised Harry S. faithfully in a personal letter the 15 year rule will go ASAP. So what’s the hold up? Well it’s like this. The powers to be had to make sure they were going to be safe not having to have thousands of rather irate frozen pensioners demanding answer as to when the Tory government will also remove the frozen pension policy whim. The up to recent times part of the “MP’s  job” description was to answer to his constituents and registered overseas expats. The Tory gov’t had to get that changed before the 15 year rule was finally removed!  Well it now seems OK to go ahead and remove it as the job description for MPs has dropped the “and registered overseas expats” bit. How does that affect you? You can vote but don’t expect your MP answer your calls! (they can grab your votes but still will not talk with you!)


John Feltham

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Nov 17, 2021, 1:56:25 AM (11 days ago) Nov 17
to 'Michael Skully' via BAPA
G'day Folks,




On 16 Nov 2021, at 6:49 pm, 'clive walford' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

[bapanews] Annual Christmas discrimination

The government, or should I say the Tory party, in its manifesto 12 years ago promised to remove the 15 year voting rule. Boris promised Harry S. faithfully in a personal letter the 15 year rule will go ASAP. So what’s the hold up? Well it’s like this. The powers to be had to make sure they were going to be safe not having to have thousands of rather irate frozen pensioners demanding answer as to when the Tory government will also remove the frozen pension policy whim. The up to recent times part of the “MP’s  job” description was to answer to his constituents and registered overseas expats. The Tory gov’t had to get that changed before the 15 year rule was finally removed!  Well it now seems OK to go ahead and remove it as the job description for MPs has dropped the “and registered overseas expats” bit. How does that affect you? You can vote but don’t expect your MP answer your calls! (they can grab your votes but still will not talk with you!)


Wonderful, but my question now, is who is my MP?

I moved around in the UK when I lived there.

Do I have to assume that my MP,  is the person who is the Member for where I was born?



ooroo



clive walford

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Nov 17, 2021, 3:20:09 AM (11 days ago) Nov 17
to 'John Feltham' via BAPA

Hi John Feltham

Your MP should be for the constituency you last registered to vote. You will need to confirm that by emailing the local Electoral Registration Office. If you go to https://www.gov.uk/contact-electoral-registration-office there is an online link to find if you are or was registered in that constituency you last lived in? If not registered you may have to do some digging with that office, (and or the local authority). if you can prove your last UK address it would help. Best of luck! Let me know how you get on please.

Clive



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elizabeth cardoo

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Nov 17, 2021, 3:47:58 AM (11 days ago) Nov 17
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Please do not shoot me down I’m curious…….but why would you be bothered about politics in UK?You left the country so why bother !!

Ex Pat in Oz. 

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On 17 Nov 2021, at 17:56, 'John Feltham' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

G'day Folks,

Tony OMahony

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Nov 17, 2021, 10:22:02 AM (11 days ago) Nov 17
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Elizabeth

It's not the politics that concerns us but the plain injustice of discriminating against us expats who have contributed to social welfare through our taxes while we worked there and now get frozen pensions.

The UK government freezes pensions to several Commonwealth countries (including Canada & NZ) and even though the UK has left the European union indexed pensions will continue to be paid to expats living in the EU.

What is fair and equitable in that?

In addition to that one writer said that he is entitled to a French pension which is indexed.

Just to let you know my view. Not remotely interested in Boris or UK politics but the simple injustice is intolerable and should be called out.

Hope it helps.

Tony O'Mahony



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Tony O'Mahony

John Feltham

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:50:54 AM (10 days ago) Nov 18
to 'Michael Skully' via BAPA
G'day Clive

On 17 Nov 2021, at 5:53 pm, 'clive walford' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi John Feltham

Your MP should be for the constituency you last registered to vote. You will need to confirm that by emailing the local Electoral Registration Office. If you go to https://www.gov.uk/contact-electoral-registration-office there is an online link to find if you are or was registered in that constituency you last lived in? If not registered you may have to do some digging with that office, (and or the local authority). if you can prove your last UK address it would help. Best of luck! Let me know how you get on please.



Thank you  for that response.

To my knowledge I have never voted anywhere in the UK while I was there.

I served in the RAF and didn’t know any better - but I do now!  :-) 

I have voted in every election during the time that I been in Australia.


ooroo



Linda OBrien

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:51:08 AM (10 days ago) Nov 18
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Ex Pat in Oz

Simple. Politicians are the only people who can remove the block on freeze on overseas pensioners.

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On 17 Nov 2021, at 5:18 pm, 'elizabeth cardoo' via BAPA <bapa...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Please do not shoot me down I’m curious…….but why would you be bothered about politics in UK?You left the country so why bother !!

elizabeth Harvey

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:51:31 AM (10 days ago) Nov 18
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Well said Tony....  that's it in a nutshell... I often wonder,  in a simple view, if an employer denied us our super contributions this would be illegal and the employer could be sued.

Why then could a class action not be started against UK government for not paying our rightful pensions upgrades?   There probably is some very good reason why we can't but I'm just curious.

thanks
Pauline

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Bruce Englefield

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:52:35 AM (10 days ago) Nov 18
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Dear Elizabeth. Tony et al.

 

I believe Australians retiring to the UK have their pensions indexed by Australia. Australia also tops up people suffering financially under the frozen pension policy with a pension.

 

Why bother with UK politics?. Simple explanation. It is only UK politicians who can end the immoral, inequitable, unfair, dishonest and disgraceful treatment given under the frozen pension policy. My opinion is that trying to embarrass UK politicians into change through a PR campaign is not working. Neither is personal lobbying.

 

If some politicians were likely to lose their seats then things might change. Unfortunately, funding is probably not available to engage some expert researchers to bring this about.

 

In my opinion, and others I’m sure have thought the same way, what is needed is for ex pats to vote at election time. Research needs to be carried out to find the seats that are most at risk to sitting members. Then to find all the ex pats who lived in these vulnerable constituencies and are living in countries where they are subjected to the frozen pension policy and left the UK in the last 15 years.  A huge task but not impossible. If they were to vote against the incumbent it might clarify a few minds. The threat of losing their seat might goad some MPs into action.

 

Regards

 

Dr Bruce Englefield OAM.

Michael Skully

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Nov 18, 2021, 5:33:11 PM (10 days ago) Nov 18
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Australia has both an income and asset means test on the old age pension.

The British state pension has neither.

If you receive a British state pension, it is likely to reduce your opportunity for an Australian pension.

Where one has saved enough money for retirement, it is highly likely that you might not receive the Australia pension.

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