Re: Digest for bankpensioner@googlegroups.com - 19 updates in 10 topics

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vaidya nathan

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Jan 7, 2024, 6:50:58 AM1/7/24
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Pension updation

K. Balasubramanian Sir
I fully agree with you.  Though the pension to bank retirees before 2000 is not  sufficient to manage self and spouse,  in crease in pension  will  benefit them.  
Now IBA and UFBU are telling that updation of pension is not possible  in the interest of Industry.  In the future, due to  NPA and Bad Loans, IBA informs its inability to implement wage revision for one time,  will the Unions accept for the betterment of Banks.   Reason for NPA and Bad Loans are entirely a  complicated subject. And unimaginable.   To my remembrance, during 1990 s  one or two PSU banks had difficulty to pay even Salary and expected to delay for a week.  Fortunately,  it did not occur.   Even one lac is insufficient to manage the living after retirement. Whose mistake will it be, is to be analysed. 
I am not against Updation of Pension.  It is comparison with Govt. Employees we are fighting for. Nobody knows how many State Govts. Because of its policies,  are in BAD DEBT TRAp,  though they do updation of pension.   Let us ponder over happenings in SriLanka and Veninzula .  Gone Bankrupt. 
Let us Not Imagine Such Things.  Let us be positive with we Have on Hand. 

On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 4:28 PM <bankpe...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Srirama Murti <ssrm...@yahoo.com>: Jan 05 06:33AM

DEAR BANK RETIREES/PENSIONERSI AM WISHING YOU HAPPY NEW YEAR 2024 FOR SEEING YOU SMILE ATLEAST IN THIS 2024 YEAR.OUR UFBU CONVENOR, SHRI BANDLISH IS REPORTED TO HAVE A FORMULA OROP (ONE RANK,ONE PENSION BASIS),GOD ONLY KNOWS BANDLISH FORMULA , WE POOR BANK PENSIONERS ARE KEPT IN DARK.YOURS TRULY,SSR MURTHY, EX-CANBANK, HYDERABAD(singampalli sri rama murthy)
P.S.:-   please spend some time with your family members, have a talk with other bankpensioners ,their routine issues(not pension matters).and resign to the FATE.with due apologies.
K Balasubramanian <kba...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 04:02PM +0530

Without ground reality we are thinking that everything is well and updation
as per RBI norms is possible .if funds position are very comfortable
without pinching the banks pocket then austerity in merging basic since 9
th bipartite to 2 to 3 percent only would not have happened. Similarly bulk
increase in special pay not ranking for person would not have been happened
. Family pension cost 48 k crores is amortized for 5 years . 100 percent DA
sacrifice for 18byears would not have been happened. Banks are expected to
provide the deficiencies in every financial year .even though the pension
fund is showing huge balance in the years to come as the number of pension
opted retirees are going up the investment return may not be sufficient .
Banks will start feeling the pinch in another 5 years or so. If the pension
updation and merger of DA is going unchecked then no body can estimate the
level of burden . Whatever account is debited it is out flow . So they want
to tighten the belt slowly from 9 th bipartite onwards
This family pension benefit and 100 percent DA benefit is expected to cost
the pension fund sizeably . A clerical retiree mat draw more than 50 k as
pension officer retirees mat draw pension of 60 k 100 k depending on their
level. Plus routine DA increase is there .
So honestly speaking unless and otherwise Banks is providing funds every
year the corpus will Fer depleted in the years to come.
Even actuaries can not estimate the quantum of outflow out of DA increase
and longevity etc correctly .
Government is pension is funded by consolidated fund of india and even at
the cost of more fiscal deficit they can pay . Time has come even for them
to make pension reforms when 8 th pay commission is implemented . For them
babus are keeping quiet and reaping the benefits.
Govt is providing funds to stre6 the capital and to maintain the capital
adequacy ratio. Bad debts are totally removed from the balance sheet and
held separately and hence it is looking healthy and performing well in the
stock market .
We are claiming our pension is self financing scheme .
Every pensioner to calculate actually the amount they surrendered less
commutation value received for comparison purpose .the balance may not be
sufficient for paying pension through his life .
IBA should appoint three different actuaries and get the ability of the
present corpus to take care of by taking all the inputs like addition to
the fund DA increase etc and act based on the majority two in three
findings .
This is one way to solve the problem . As a stop gap arrangement and want
to be liberal atleast with the pre 2002 retirees who are in late seventies
and 80 s by suggesting ex gratia type payment which is going to be sizeable
amount which will not attract DA . Even unbiased union leaders are aware
that RBI pattern is next to the impossible .the salary has gone up steeply
by 50 percent in VI th pay commission to govt employees . Quoting that only
RBI got steep hike
LIC also got good hike .
Our leaders could not achieve the same level of increase and they managed
to get fair hike by introducing the concept of special pay not ranking for
pension .
FM and repeat FM alone is responsible for giving relief to pre 2002
retirees 100 percent DA and widowers 30 percent family pension without
ceiling .as an extension they want to update the pension for pre 2002
retirees. But junior retirees and unions not agreed .pension has gone up
considerably in 9 th bipartite and created a visible gap between 7 th and 9
th .
Since updation for all slogan got strengthened they are coming out the
concept of exgratia with out DA . Here also the beneficiaries are going to
be pre 2002 retirees . DA or NO DA pre 2002 retirees may not bother much as
7 to 10 k they may get for few years till their death their souls will
leave the world .that is what FM wants .so allowing the government to go
with the exgratia without surrendering the legal right to fight for
updation is the sensible option instead of making a hue and cry for RBI
pattern .if not allowing updation is an issue then why 10 th bipartite
onwards only peanut basic load .if justice to be done correctly means their
special allowance should be taken for pension before thinking of updation
that too on rbi pattern.
Since it is impossible to maintain the pension fund in future years with
good health austerity at all levels including serving future pensioners .
The above is my views written like flow of water from mountain.
Those who like may think .otherwise leave it .
I am a pre 2002 retiree having a habit analyzing a problem with unbiased
attitude .
Niranjan Cn <niran...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 03:00PM +0530

Sirs,
 
In response to the AIBPARC Circular, a write up has been made, considering
IOB Pension Fund as an example as the Top leadership of AIBPARC are from
IOB. Please refer to the attached-write up for workings/details.
 
For ready reference, the following are questions which are to be
answered/clarified by AIBPARC. I have shared the write up with all the
office bearers of AIBPARC two days back and so far no response ( may be
preparing answers).
 
AIBPARC thinks that DFS, IBA, Banks, Board, Investors, RBI, IBA, UFBU, etc
are ignorant and only AIBPARC is fountain of knowledge/experience with
regard to Pension Funds
 
In view of the above, Hope and Wish AIBPARC to clarify/answer the
following points to all the members:
 
a) If sufficient funds are already available, why IOB opted for
amortization for five years of additional burden due revision in Family
Pension ?
 
b) 10% of mandatory contribution as per Regulations works out (appx)
only to Rs. 43.79 crores
 
c) But, Bank has contributed Rs.786.51 crores towards additional
contribution due actuarial valuation shortfall why ?
 
d) Whether IOB providing to Pension Fund is wrong OR your calculations
are wrong ?
 
e) If IOB Pension Fund contributions are incorrect – what steps/action
has been taken ?
 
f) Whether Acturaial Valuations of IOB Pension Fund is WRONG ?
 
g) Whether Bank Board – blindly provided the funds to Pension Fund –
in excess ??
 
h) Whether Statutory Auditors – allowed excess funds to Pension Fund ?
 
i) Whether RBI Auditors also turned blind eye to Excess providing to
Pension Fund ?
 
j) Why Bank provided Excess Amount to Pension Fund by reducing the
Profit ? Any benefit to the Bank ?
 
k) As per AIBPARC – when so much funds are available why not
demanding Pension of Special Allowance also as the huge funds are available.
 
*l) **Is it not naïve to assume that Bank Boards, Statutory Auditors,
RBI, DFS, **Investors,IBA, UFBU, etc are ignorant ?? And only AIBPARC is
smart ??*
 
m) *Why AIBPARC so far not complained to * *Institute of Actuaries of
India regarding wrong calculations by Acturies in case of Bank Pensions ?*
 
 
*Niranjan*
 
*Ex-canara*
CHIRAMEL MATHEW SIMON <simon...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 06:04PM +0530

Nobody seems to pay any heed to the loss suffered by the pensioners from
the 10th wage revision onwards due to introduction of special pay. At 11th
revision, 24% of basic pay was fixed as special pay on which no pension was
considered. This is a great loss for recent pensioners. However, nobody is
expressing any concern for these group.
 
mohan p <moha...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 12:25PM +0530

Mr Mathew Simon,
 
Yes.The subject matter is aware to pensioners and since the matter is
before court and since no latest developments have been taken place, the
point was not coming for discussion here, nowadays.
 
Revision of pension by taking into account of Special Allowance introduced
under 10th BPS /JN was already questioned in case filed vide
WP(C).No.32386 OF 2015(W) before High Court of Kerala by K T Muralimohan &
Ors V/s Corporation Bank/Union of India.
 
The above writ petition was allowed in favour of retirees on 28th Nov
2019.Bank's appeal is pending before Apex Court now.
 
Let us hope that a favorable verdict may come from Apex Court too.
 
 
 
 
On Fri, 5 Jan, 2024, 9:45 am CHIRAMEL MATHEW SIMON, <simon...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
R Balaji <rbal...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 09:51AM +0530

*but they received hectic pay (24% ) during their service but old
pensioners not received any updation since 1993*
 
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:45 AM CHIRAMEL MATHEW SIMON <simon...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
Ramani Konnayar <knra...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 02:06PM +0530

In the second para, the phrase "the concept of special allowance was
introduced" may be added to the penultimate sentence.
The error is regretted.
 
Ramani Konnayar <knra...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 01:50PM +0530

l am a VRS retiree under 6th BPS.
 
In my view, the concept of Special Allowance (not eligible for Pension
calculation) was introduced with the consent of UFBU, very much akin to the
denial of 100% DA to pre 1/11/2002 retirees in the 8th BPS, for the
following reasons.
 
NPS was introduced in Banks wef April 2010 bringing an end to the First
ever Pension Scheme of 1995 in just 15 years. Needless to say, NPS with no
CPI linked DA is much less beneficial to retirees than the Old Pension
Scheme. With NPS having been introduced for Government employees as early
as in April 2003, UFBU had no choice than to accept it, as evidenced by the
absence of any protest. However, perhaps with a view to compensate the low
pensions under NPS, salary hikes were made quite liberal from 10th BPS
(1/11/2012)onwards. But, this threw up a new problem for the
unions/associations.
Now, they had to take care of the interests of their members under OPS as
well as NPS. The percentage of their members under OPS was steadily coming
down and vice versa. Those under NPS are understandably much aggrieved that
the OPS group, besides getting a good salary (due to the advent of NPS as
stated above) would be getting a very decent amount as pension too with
half yearly DA increases. So, perhaps with a view to placate this group and
also in order to reduce the future burden on banks resulting from huge
transfer of monies to the Pension Funds (old scheme). It is to be noted
that UFBU does not appear to be inclined to merge Special Allowance with
Basic Pay and on the other hand the percentage of Special Allowance of
Basic Pay has only been increasing with each BPS.
 
No doubt, this is an injustice meted out to those under OPS. However, this
being part of bipartite agreement, it remains to be seen if the Apex Court
would interfere with it. The denial of 100% DA to the pre2002 retirees was
upheld by it and after 18+ years, justice was done to them at the instance
of the GOI.
 
K N Ramani
 
 
On Fri, 5 Jan 2024, 9:45 am CHIRAMEL MATHEW SIMON, <simon...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
mohan p <moha...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 08:23PM +0530

For information.
JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 09:11PM +0530

There are chances of signing of 12th BPS on 12th January 2024.
 
Niranjan Cn <niran...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 10:22AM +0530

Sir,
 
In all probability it will be signed.
 
Niranjan
 
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:45 AM JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
kds nair <sasidhar...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 04:56PM +0530

Your assessment of Youtubers is correct.Simply ignore them.
 
JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 04:30PM +0530

Mr.Niranjan
Fault lies with UFBU also. Lakhs of pensioners are awaiting to know status
of Updation and other issues.
But not a single authentic statement from UFBU leaders on these issues
except third party reports reveals that UFBU leaders are giving
conflicting statements.
In the absence of authentic statements/clarification from UFBU pensioners
are searching all over social media platforms for news. Supply depends on
demand. If UFBU leaders had clarified issues there would have been no space
for youtubers.
 
Niranjan Cn <niran...@gmail.com>: Jan 05 10:27AM +0530

Sir,
 
Agree, pensioners have become impatient over a long wait. However, having
waiter long - definitely can wait for some days to get clarity. Two things
are clear from the available information, all pensioners (upto Oct 2022)
will get increase (in the form of exgratia) and there no revision of
basic. Lets hope, how much increase will happen matters now in whichever
name it is called.
 
Niranjan
 
On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 9:44 AM JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
vaidya nathan <vvn.m...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 04:52PM +0530

Insufficient salary and Pension.
 
Ex SBI Chairman has expressed his difficulty to manage his home during
service and also after retirement. 28 lacs is insufficient to run a
family on comparing with other Private Bank CEOs . Comparision always
causes pain and Disappointment. A pension of 1 lac is insufficient to get
a home after retirement. What an ambition in life at 60 onward. Perhaps he
has not come across people living in huts and roads, and also Happy.
Happiness does not come from Outside, But from Within. Surprised to read
such an expression from a Top Brass.
 
Satyanarayana Rao <karna...@yahoo.co.in>: Jan 04 12:15PM

Let us not hurt a person who is retired .He got what he deserved after retirement on account of his knowledge and wisdom. He was made to apologise in contempt case during his chairmanship of SBI.Let  him be happy with what he is enjoying with lots of responsibilities in private sector job. 
 
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 at 15:52, kds nair<sasidhar...@gmail.com> wrote: Where is Mr Rajnish Kumar now?After retirement,he joined in Reliance with high perks.A good house in a decent locality of Mumbai costs more than 20 crores .How an ordinary bank retiree can purchase such a facility?What for Rajnish Kumar is brought into our chats?
On Thu, 4 Jan, 2024, 10:03 am JSOMA SHEKARA, <jsomase...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
SBI Ex-Chairman says Bank Employees get so less salary that they can’t even purchase home
In a podcast interview, former SBI Chairman Rajnish Kumar said that he received Rs.28 lac as Chairman of SBI. This salary is very less when compared to the salary recived by private sector banks MDs and CEOs.
 
The CEOs of private banks received approximate salary of Rs.10 crore per year while the Chairman of India’s largest Public Sector Bank recieved salary of Rs.28 lacs per year.
 
Mr. Rajnish Kumar said that not only the salary but the pension is also very less. He gets around Rs.1 lac as pension and it is very difficult to afford the lifestyle that he is used to while being the Chairman of SBI.
 
 
 
It is so less that it’s not possible to purchase home with this much pension amount. He also said that the employees in private sector earn a lot of money and can even earn in crores while working for only one hour.
 
He said that the amont of pressure in banking is severe and is increasing day by day but the salary is very less. He said that he got a lot of allowances while being Chairman of SBI such as grand bungalow in Malabar Hills, Car worth Rs.30/40 lacs and many more.
 
 
 
 
 
On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 5:15 PM mohan p <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
For Information:
The case No.SLP 5561/2016 filed by late M C Singla & Ors v/s Union of India & Ors before Apex Court on updation of pension is :
| Tentatively case may be listed on (likely to be listed on) | 01-03-2024 (Computer Generated) |
 
 
 
 
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JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 04:19PM +0530

If one lakh pension is too less for him what about lakhs of pre 2002
pensioners whose basic pension was not revised for last 20 years and are
receiving pension between 10000 to 30000 until recently before sanction of
100% DA. Now he is comparing his pension with private Banks and other govt
employees. All negotiating members of IBA have the same mentality. They do
not have concern for retirees while in service. In course of their
performing duty they will have good connections with big corporates and
after retirement they will get the opportunity to serve in big firms and
enjoy high quality life.
Is there anybody to care for pensioners?
While in service it is well known how he treated pensioners without
implementing court orders properly and made thousands of pensioners
running to court for justice and even faced contempt of court,
 
mohan p <moha...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 07:06PM +0530

For Information,:
 
 
BIPARTITE TALKS - Meeting of the Core Group will be held on 9th Jan. and
meeting with Main Negotiating Committee will be held on 12th Jan. 2024
- chv GS #AIBEA
mohan p <moha...@gmail.com>: Jan 04 06:48PM +0530

FOR INFORMATION OF UBI RETIREES.
 
Outcome of half yearly Pension & Gratuity Trust Meetings
 
Outcome of Staff Welfare Committee Meeting held today.
 
 
Pl.see attached circulars:
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Subrahmanyam Korsapati

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Jan 7, 2024, 11:57:58 PM1/7/24
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Sri P Mohanji, Namaste,

Can you provide a pdf copy of Kerala HC WP(C) 32386 of 2015 Judgement dt  dt 28/11/2019. to go through the contetents
Thanks,
Ex SBH retiree 2001

K Balasubramanian

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Jan 8, 2024, 12:01:55 AM1/8/24
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Dear Sri vaidyanathan sir 
Thank you for your accepting my basic view .
All the mess in salaries and allowances are due to introduction of huge amount as grade pay along with  vi th pay commission  recommendation 
Ex class I officer 15600  grade pay is 5400 more than 35 percent .with this increase by UPA govt every calculation of tge finance management went to deep deficit . Majority of the state govts are spending more than 70 percent to salaries and allowance 
Financial sector s salary came down by 40 percent . Because of high salary and pension of tge central government all other institutions and state government are suffering. 
K balasubramanian 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAK_8OKSjROxed9FXpX3f1xkYWWWm6yRbYytnZVVTNE1BJf_YHw%40mail.gmail.com.

MOHAN P

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Jan 8, 2024, 2:51:25 AM1/8/24
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Dear Mr Subramaniam,

As desired the copy of judgment dated 28.11.29  on case No.WP(C)32386/2015 before Kerala High Court, Ernakulam,filed by K T Muraleemohan & Ors v/s Union of India on allowing petition  to revise basic pension including special allowance with Basic Pension,is attached herewith.
Regards
Mohan.P







case.kerala.HC.spl.allow.2019.K.T.M (1).pdf
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