Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

[bankpensioner]

For information :

COMPLAINT AGAINST INDIAN BANKS ASSOCIATION, UNITED INSURANCE CO LTD,AND BANK OF BARODA IN THE MATTER OF GROUP MEDICAL INSURANCE SCHEME FOR BANK WORKING EMPLOYEES AND RETIRED EMPLOYEES.

Shri  S. Ramchandran former General Manager of Bank of Baroda has  written a letter to the Chairman, Insurance Regulatory & Development Authority (IRDA) regarding group medical insurance scheme for bank working and retired employees. The letter points out to many irregularities of the scheme and number of violations of IRDA guidelines. Legality of IBA has also been questioned in the letter.

 Click here to view the letter to IRDA

 Click here to view annexure A to the letter  (IBA Letter)

 Click here to view annexure B to the letter 

 Click here to view IRDA guidelines 

[bankpensioner]

Files (pdf)  containing IRDA guidelines and Annexure B are attached herewith
If there is problem in downloading files visit  http://bankpensioner.blogspot.com.

[Jagdip Shah]

Dear Sir,

Unable to open (a) Annexure B To The Letter as well as (b) IRDA Guidelines

Can you please reload them and oblige

With regards

Jagdip Shah

Canara Bank Retire

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[Sukhchain Singh]

Sir, Pl. let me know the process and authority to whom claim of reimbursement under new Medical insurance scheme is to be lodged. As the circular is silent on this issue. Is the policy is CASHLESS.

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[naresh sharma]

prabhatc...@gmail.com

[Prasad C N]

Dear Shri Ramachandran,

Let me explain my credentials, before I place my observations on your letter.  I am a Qualified Financial Planner and I am teaching Insurance for last ten years.  I have also taught in State Bank Staff Colleges at Hyderabad.  I am currently employed with an Insurance Broker.  I have acquired some amount of knowledge and experience in the field of Insurance.

You find answers to your questions raised in the documents available with you.  They are :

1. Para 6 of IRDA guidelines provides for issue of policy in the name of the employer.  You need to contact your Bank, not the IRDA.  The policy will be issued in the name of Indian Banks‟ Association (Refer first sentence of Appendix II of Joint Note)

2. Only one policy with list of member Banks would be issued (Refer first paragraph of Appendix II of Joint Note). There are certain deviations.  For Example definition of the dependents in respect of retirees (Page 22 of Joint Note & Ex-gratia in case of Critical Illness not extended to retirees - Page 25 of Joint Note)

3. Refer page 23 of Joint Note under the head CONTRIBUTION, payment of premium by retirees is explained.  Banks have to take a call on the amount.  In any case, it cannot exceed the amount paid to insurance company.   Some of the differences in terms explained supra.

4. We have not come across any Insurance Company issuing Group Health Insurance Policy for a period of five years. Group insurance policies, especially, Group Health Insurance policies are issued for period not more than one year. Premium at the time of renewal, each year, in respect of each of these policies are determined  based on claim experience during previous year.  Free Look period is available only in respect of products bought out of shelf, but not tailor made policies or specifically designed policies, after a prolonged negotiation.

5. Policy is being issued in the name of Indian Banks Association, which enables seamless availability of Corporate Buffer.  This has no relevance or disadvantage for retirees.  Indian Banks Association is representing member Banks and list of Banks which are covered under the policy would be provided in the policy (Refer page Appendix II - First Page)

6. Varying scope of coverage in Group Health Insurance policy pass through touch stone of law.  Please refer to Group Medical Insurance policies bought by employers of children of your friends.  Most of the policies have different terms. It is unfortunate that the question is directed at an Insurance Co./IRDA, who are not in a position to answer your question, whether policy stands judicial scrutiny, as they are third parties to the contract which covers retirees. Insurance company does not differentiate retiree or an employee.  They only go by the list provided.  It is inconsequential for the company.

I WOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE POINT BY POINT REPLY WITH VARIOUS JUDGMENTS COVERING THE ISSUES ON HAND.    BUT  REFRAINED FROM PROVIDING NOW.  You could have waited for issue of such a policy.  A similar scheme is already in existence in LIC of India covering employees and retirees.  There is Corporate Buffer, therefore, it is a wise decision to issue policy in the name of IBA.  There is no corporate Buffer in LIC and LIC is the only entity.  In respect of more than 40 Banks are involved.  

You question the authority of IBA.  IBA and Government are very happy to accept your contention and discontinue negotiation.  In fact, in every settlement, it is the first demand from their side.  IBA does not want to negotiate.  Mr.Ramachandran, please inform every one of us, whom do you approach for revision of pension and other benefits.  Is it GOI ?  What about private Banks ?  Can Govt also decide on behalf of them ?  

RETIREES DO NOT HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO GET THE SCHEME EXTENDED, AS WE ARE NOT PARTIES TO THE AGREEMENT.  EVEN IF YOU ARE PROVED CORRECT OR YOUR APPREHENSIONS ARE RIGHT AND CONSEQUENTLY, POLICY IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE ISSUED, ONLY RETIREES ARE THE LOSERS. PLEASE  MAKE IT CLEAR, THE OBJECTIVES OF WRITING A LETTER.  ARE YOU NOT HARMING THE INTEREST OF RETIREES ?       

 

Thanks, a Million. 

With regards, 

Prasad C N

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[mohan p]

Dear  Prasadji,  

                                     Your in depth analysis  and authentic comments , on the subject, will be highly beneficial  to all 

member retirees here.  

Thanks and regards

[cpvnair.nair]

APT conclusion.Great as usual, Prasadji!

 

 

Warm reg

 

 

CPVNAIR

[murthypgk]

Dear sri Prasad

With reference to your counter question regarding status of the IBA and the disadvantages in questioning the same , I am of the opinion, that the pensioners will be the inconvenienced  in immediate run but in long run ,the Banks, The Central Govt and equally the IBA would be losers too. It is essential at any one point of time to know the status of the main negotiator who could sue or be sued or accountable for its actions. The IBA has not done any valuable service to the pensioners except complicating the matters .

Thanking you.

PGK MURTHY

HYDERABAD

040-23746543

[Prasad C N]

Dear Mr.Murthy,

Everyone is aware of status of Indian Banks Association.  IBA is a representative body of bank managements.  It is endeavor of Government, IBA and Bank managements to have Bank wise negotiations, but not at industry level.  It suits them.  At no point of time, giver will not be the loser, whenever, he postpones or avoids.  It is the one who has to receive is the loser.  That is the situation any management wait for.

Atleast, we are aware that AIBRF should negotiate directly with IBA.  If the same sentence is replaced IBA by ?, whom do you contact.

Even, legally, IBA has legitimate standing, even if it is unregistered.  It is because, the agreement it is entering is on behalf of member Banks which are all companies (various forms of companies).  It is not the IBA which implements and extends agreed benefits.  It is the member banks.  Even in Supreme Court, IBA has joined as an intervenor and defended its/member banks' actions/inactions.  Even, there best of lawyers have neither questioned nor raised objection.  Even if there is an iota of doubt about status, no lawyer worth his salt would have kept quite.  Decided against locating a judgment of Supreme Court in respect of a case unrelated to Banking, it is clearly stated that representative body has legitimate right to represent beneficiaries.  IBA is not liable for its acts as it acts as an agent. Principal is bound by actions of his agent.  Please study the relevant portions of contract act.  

If you are still convinced that mere questioning IBA would bring in benefits, you are mistaken or misguided.

 

Thanks, a Million. 

With regards, 

Prasad C N

[cpvnair.nair]

I liked very much that usage Prasadji-‘IBA is not liable for its acts..’Great Prasadji.In MY view, we retirees suffer on account of this.Please go ahead!I personally feel that there COULD be one day when our UFBU may come forward to ditch IBA.This is only my personal observation.

 

 

Warm reg

 

 

CPVNAIR

 

From: bankpe...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bankpe...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:40 PM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: bankpensioner Re: Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

 

Dear Mr.Murthy,

[kkb1681 .]

I fully agree with Prasad C N ------------------the last para

[Satyanarayana Rao]

In case the court verdicts are not implemented  we can plead contempt proceedings against  such banks not directly against IBA. PLEASE CLARIFY. 

[harinarayana sarma nandivada]

With due respects to the levels of intelligence and levels of perception of the seniors and other members of the blog, may I emphasize that as retirees/pensioners, we are interested and we should be interested in getting our long pending issues resolved soon for the following reasons:

1.  Though we would like to wait, our age will not wait to allow us to enjoy the benefits which are not in sight at present

2. How old is LIC Pensioners' struggle?

3. When all the doors for our negotiations are closed, what is the alternative available to us excepting knocking at the doors of Courts

4. For how long can we look for the mercy of  IBA/UFBU/MPs/Ministers/Govt?  Even assuming that we are inclined to pursue these sources again and again, are they willing to entertain us? History readily provides us answers for all the above

5. If we still go on weighing the pros and cons of legal remedy with lingering minds, will  it  not consume the rest of our life?

6. Can we afford not to initiate any legal action in the fear that it will take years together to get our issues settled?

7. If hesitation is the only answer, how could somany cases be won so far by retirees ?

All the learned members should seriously think and the retirees' organizations also should start thinking in the right direction keeping the interests of members at large but not any other thing.

N.Harinarayana Sarma

A Retiree from Andhra Bank

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From: 'Prasad C N' via bankpensioner <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
To: "bankpe...@googlegroups.com" <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 27 September 2015, 12:09

Subject: Re: bankpensioner Re: Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

[bhaskara sarma]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bhaskara sarma <pbsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 2015
Subject: bankpensioner Re: Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme
To: Srinivasa Murti Devulapalli <devulapa...@gmail.com>


But IBA is playing only a negative role as far as pensioners are concerned.The best example is not extending second pension option to all the PF optees as per 9 th BPS.Moreover a single settlement for all the banks including weak private sector banks is leading to a settlement which is affordable by the weakest bank.Similarly the weak private sector banks are stalling any improvement in updation etc.It is high time a solution is to be found out for ensuring justice to all stakeholders equitably instead of arriving at a settlement affordable by the weakest bank.

P B Sarma.

On Sunday, September 27, 2015, Srinivasa Murti Devulapalli <devulapa...@gmail.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: 'Prasad C N' via bankpensioner <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 27 September 2015 at 12:09
Subject: Re: bankpensioner Re: Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

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d s murti

[Ramachandran Menon]

IBA has written in the record note that there is no contractual relationship between the retirees and the banks. Now what is the obligation of IBA towards the retirees and the regular employees. It is not a legal entity and cannot sue or be sued against. They just want to see that retirees are not paid their dues. They can afford to disregard HC or SC judgement as they cannot implement any rules. They will not come for any discussion nor call you for discussion.  They will say they have no mandate. We waste our precious time waiting for negotiated settlement, it will never happen. Start a legal fund, collect from individual bank associations, have a consultancy group, start filing suits for contempt of Court where favourable decisions are not implemented.

recently SC threatened to call the Chairman of the LIC to come to the court to answer the non implementation charge. What are we waiting for., we are loosing precious time.

[lambdeo]

Dear Shri Prasad

What is the legal status of AIBRF ? Is it registered under any act like Societies Act / Trust Act / Industrial disputes act etc. ? In AIBRF website there is no mention of such registration. If it is not registered , it is not a legal entity . Then how can AIBRF file a case regarding pensioners issue in court of law or implead in a case filed by any retiree? In past how many court cases are filed by AIBRF?

You are requested to enlighten us in the subject.

L S Sharma

[Kishore Kumar Nanda]

I cannot understand how UFBU can ditch IBA. Rather they are awaiting to be ditched by IBA. They could ditch Pensioners/Retirees but they are having unholy alliance with IBA for self interest of leaders. All their slogan of "unite" is a hoax after seeing the result of last Bipartite more particularly "issues of Pensioners/Retirees". Long live our unity/

[Baliram Nawghare]

CONCERNED ALL;RESPECTED,BANK PENSIONERS,et al,

SOME OF THE LEAD OPINION LEVERAGERS/ARTICULATORS,BY NOW WE ARE
INCLINED TO BELIEVE THAT WORTHY mr.gm and other lotful less
reasonably and absolutely profounding natural law tradition.Indian
Banking private as well as Public-govern themselves conforming to the
requirements of IBA and RBI,IRDA,SEBI,to name a few,LARGELY WITHIN THE
CANVASS OF Indian constitutional economics,-welfare included; of
course, of the Society.(with emphasis)Those who,not only nurtured but
cared private interest while being then and now public servant without
propriety making Insuarance facility in issue malady of
frustration.This is unbecoming of the kind of worthiness.Please,be not
polar pivot of the lot at the passing phase of life by
questioning-IBA,RBI,IRDA,GOI and coiling smoke then, fuel to fall in
line.Let it go as it goes smoohly,ordinarily without intervention and
access to judicial methods,lets be for PRAGMATIC NEGOTIATION,if need
be by AIBRF ;as a layman bank pensioner -i concurr to the responsive
observations made by worthy Mr.Prasad.C.N.

I may not continue to engage for response.
Thanks and Regards ,
mr.nawghare.b.y.

[Sushil Agarwal]

Attended a meeting organised by AIBOA (Maharashtra) to discuss the health insurance scheme for retiree employees . The gathering of retired employees was addressed by:
1. Shri Hariharan, DGM , United  India Insurance, HO, CHENNAI
2.  Shri Manek Dastoor of Dastoor & Co., advisors to IBA.

Take-aways from the discussions included:

1. The scheme is to be implemented from 01.11.2015.
2. Even though the banks have stipulated cut-off date for exercising option, a time window of 90 days (from the date of implementation)  will be available for a retiree to exercise his option in case he failed to do so within the cut-off date.
3. Once an employee opts out of the scheme, he/she will not be eligible to be covered under the scheme.
4. Spouse of a deceased retiree is eligible to be covered under the scheme.
5. Even though the scheme talks of "dependent" spouse, it was clarified that there is no income restrictions. Spouse is covered.
6. Sum assured cannot be increased by individuals.
7. In case the retiree expires, the spouse will be eligible for coverage under the scheme till his/her death.
8. All types of retirees are covered under the scheme.
9. Pre-existing diseases are covered.
10. In case both husband and wife are in the bank(s), both can opt for the scheme. For each of them coverage will be for the spouse also. Total coverage for the two together
will be the sum of their eligible coverage.(if both are officers, total cover will be Rs 8 lacs.
11. No age limit for being eligible for the scheme.

[Srirang Iyer]

Dear Nawghare B Y,

Hats off to your English and presentation of the issue in American style ONLY IN 3 SENTENCES. I could not read at a stretch ,forget about understanding its meaning as my IQ is not as high of others.I am sure that you may not have served  Indian Public sector Bank or preferably engaged by insurance company. 

"SOME OF THE LEAD OPINION LEVERAGERS/ARTICULATORS,BY NOW WE ARE INCLINED TO BELIEVE THAT WORTHY mr.gm and other lotful less
reasonably and absolutely profounding natural law tradition.Indian Banking private as well as Public-govern themselves conforming to the
requirements of IBA and RBI,IRDA,SEBI,to name a few,LARGELY WITHIN THE CANVASS OF Indian constitutional economics,-welfare included; of
course, of the Society.(with emphasis)

Those who,not only nurtured but cared private interest while being then and now public servant without propriety making Insuarance facility in issue malady of
frustration.

This is unbecoming of the kind of worthiness.Please,be not polar pivot of the lot at the passing phase of life by questioning-IBA,RBI,IRDA,GOI and coiling smoke then, fuel to fall in line.Let it go as it goes smoohly,ordinarily without intervention and access to judicial methods,lets be for PRAGMATIC NEGOTIATION,if need be by AIBRF ;as  a layman bank pensioner -i concurr to the responsive observations made by worthy Mr.Prasad.C.N."

BUT YOU SEEMS TO BE INTELLIGENT ONE BY COMMENTING AT THE END "I may not continue to engage for response." WHICH RAISES QUESTION BEFORE  THE LAYMAN PENSIONERS NOT ONLY MEANING OF YOUR MESSAGE BUT ALSO A FURTHER CONFUSION ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO CONVEY.

Only i could understand is message is related to WORTHY PRASAD C N.

On this blog lot of members have analytical skill & hence request PM, CPV CN Prasad to be kind enough to translate the message of Mr. B Y Nawgahre in to simple logical & poor standard bankers to understand it.

Lastly sincere request to  Nawghare B Y, to convey message in future to reach the members in a simple language.

Regards

Iyer S I  

[Prasad C N]

Dear Mr.Karunakaran,

If you are questioning the status of IBA and its agreement, what is the legitimacy of Insurance Scheme ?  Those who retired during 10th BPS have got arrears of Commutation.  Please guide us whether they are entitled to receive the amount from illegitimate source.  

Mr.Ramachandran, writes a complaint to United India.  In the absence of IBA, what is the relationship between Mr.Ramachandran and United India, with regard to this insurance scheme.  

Mr.Karunakaran, are you in receipt of Pension ?  This settlement is also signed by illegitimate IBA.  If so, what right, moral or legal,  those who question IBA have got ?

Nobody is defending any action of IBA or UFBU.  What is the consequence in the absence of IBA ?  Please awaken every retiree like me who certainly owe my gratitude to my Bank and my Union, as my account gets credited with pension, whether I am in India or not, whether I am sick or not.  People should provide sound alternatives, instead of finding fault. 

Central Government pension is a century old benefit.  Only Courts ensured improvement.  Despite absence of  IBA they had to wait nearly seven decades for improvement in pension.  How old is your pension scheme, Mr.Karunakaran ?  

In other Public Sector, IBA is not there ?  Whether they are getting pension, like you are getting ?

Those who have cool head and think logically, their blood do not boil.  But, Mr.Karunakaran, ignorance is a bliss.

Can I see your letter addressed to your Bank requesting them to stop payment of Pension, since it is being paid on account of  illigal IBA's agreement ?  You have no right to enjoy benefit, while have no gratitude towards the hands which are feeding you.

Thanks, a Million. 

With regards, 

Prasad C N

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 4:14 PM, karuna karan <dk...@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Dear friends,

It is no wonder if Mr.Prasad bats for UFBU, knowing fully well his past and present connection with the so called Union Leaders.  But to-day he bats for IBA. This explains  how well UFBU and IBA are well connected.  When Mr.Ramachandran finds fault with IBA, Prasad's blood boils.

If there is delay and denial, only taker has to suffer.  I agree.  That is why every bi-partite is delayed unduly by an unholy nexus.  

If there is no IBA, what will happen to our pension/salary etc. is that worries Mr.Prasad.  Instead of answering the formation of IBA and its sanctity in its activities, he says IBA is the saviour of all bank employees. He knows well only a  bi-partite can delay the settlement, favor the management and write a NOTORIOUS RECORD NOTE.  After seeing the plight of central govt. employees/pensioners, drawing a very poor salary compared to that of Bank employees,  I also has to change side to vote Mr.Prasad and his team who have given the Bank employees a better salary and enviable pension.  How long this people will fool us?

Karunakaran  IBSVRS 2001

From: bhaskara sarma <pbsa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 21:47:19
To: "bankpe...@googlegroups.com" <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Fwd: bankpensioner Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: bhaskara sarma <pbsa...@gmail.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 2015
Subject: bankpensioner Re: Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme
To: Srinivasa Murti Devulapalli <devulapa...@gmail.com>


But IBA is playing only a negative role as far as pensioners are concerned.The best example is not extending second pension option to all the PF optees as per 9 th BPS.Moreover a single settlement for all the banks including weak private sector banks is leading to a settlement which is affordable by the weakest bank.Similarly the weak private sector banks are stalling any improvement in updation etc.It is high time a solution is to be found out for ensuring justice to all stakeholders equitably instead of arriving at a settlement affordable by the weakest bank.

P B Sarma.

On Sunday, September 27, 2015, Srinivasa Murti Devulapalli <devulapa...@gmail.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ';Prasad C N'; via bankpensioner <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 27 September 2015 at 12:09

Subject: Re: bankpensioner Re: Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA, United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

--

d s murti

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[Balaji Ramakrishnan]

Well said Prasad ji

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From: 'Prasad C N' via bankpensioner

Sent: ‎30-‎09-‎2015 20:58
To: karuna karan; pbsarma55; Bankpensioner Google
Cc: Mohandas Rao; PERUMALJI; PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: bankpensioner  Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA,United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

[The entire original message is not included.]

[harinarayana sarma nandivada]

Why cross questioning among the retirees?  Why are we not questioning the Unions and the IBA

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From: Balaji Ramakrishnan <rbal...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 30 September 2015, 23:47
Subject: RE: Fwd: bankpensioner Letter to IRDA - Complaint against IBA,United Insurance Co, Bank of Baroda regarding medical insurance scheme

[lambdeo]

Dear Shri Prasad

I repeat my question

What is the legal status of AIBRF ? Is it registered under any act like Societies Act / Trust Act / Industrial disputes act etc. ? In AIBRF website there is no mention of such registration. If it is not registered , it is not a legal entity . Then how can AIBRF file a case regarding pensioners issue in court of law or implead in a case filed by any retiree? In past how many court cases are filed by AIBRF?

You are requested to enlighten us in the subject.

L S Sharma

P.S.  Any office bearer of AIBRF can clarify the subject

On Thursday, September 24, 2015 at 1:54:52 PM UTC+5:30, bankpensioner wrote:

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Canara Bank extends due date for submitting option for Medical Health Insurance scheme till 20th October 2015. Earlier it was 30.09.2015.

A reduction in Premium to be paid is also possible though circular says nothing about it.

[dp. bhardwaj]

Please any one  from AIBRF reply  the queries raised by Mr Lambdeo.

D P Bhardwaj

Allahabad Bank

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