Fwd: Document from RAMANI NV

[RAMANI NV]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: RAMANI NV <ramani...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Apr 7, 2025 at 9:57 AM
Subject: Document from RAMANI NV
To: <ramani...@gmail.com>

[Sridhar Mandyam]

. "The DFS is aware that the pension in the state-run banks is payable out of the Pension Funds, created out of the CPF of employees and CPF refunded by the retired employees "

As per my understanding the contribution to pension fund by retired persons is a BIG ZERO

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[MOHAN P]

Yes .Employees contribution towards pension fund is NIL.Reality is that it is bank's money.

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[Sadhan Bhattacharyya]

The pension fund was created by the present pensioners , when they were employees. Please go through the previous bipartite negotiations , when the unions were bound to agree to a  lesser increase in salary to create the pension funds. Those who joined at later period contributed a substantial sum from the arrear payment out as contribution to the pension fund. So, pension fund was created from our hard earned  salary, and it is not a gift by the centre or the bank. Please don't create any confusion.

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[Narayanan Venkateshwaran]

In strict sense of the term the pension fund neither belongs to bank nor 

employee. It is Trust money. Equity demands, representatives of employees should have  had a slot as a member in the trust. 

Even though Bank contributes equivalent of employees contribution to PF while in service, 

It is employees money until he opts for pension in lieu of Banks portion of pf

In the case of employees who have opted for pension later, it is employees who part with money that too with interest. 

Hence pension Fund does not hold out exclusive ownership to either

CVNarayanan

On Tue, 8 Apr, 2025, 9:26 am MOHAN P, <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Niranjan Cn]

Well said sir..  Unfortunately many retiree association leaders have misled pensioners saying that bank is not updating even though enough pensioners money is there…

Niranjan 

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[MOHAN P]

Dear Mr Sadan Bhatacharya,

At the cost of repetition, please understand that pension fund is bank's money and employees contribution is NIL.

More over the fund has to be utilised for payment of pension to existing pensioners as well as to serving employees who opted for old pension scheme,once they retire till the last pensioner/family pensioner survive.

Let us be clear on the subject.

Regards

Mohan.P

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[MOHAN P]

Dear Sri Narayanan

Bank Employees Pension Regulations,1995 has clearly spelt out on constitution of Pension Fund and its management as follows:

"Constitution of the Fund. (1) (2) (3) 6. 

 The Bank shall constitute a Fund to be called the "Bank ... (Employees') Pension Fund" under an irrevocable trust within one hundred twenty days from the notified date. 

The Fund shall have for its sole purpose the provision of the payment of pension or family pension in accordance with these regulations to the employee or his family. 

The Bank shall be a contributor to the Fund and shall ensure that sufficient sums are placed in it to enable the trustees to make due payments to beneficiaries under these regulations. "

Regards

Mohan.P

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

I quote from the message

"In the case of employees who have opted for pension later, it is employees who part with money that too with interest."

 At the time of retirement the employee gets back his contribution with interest. Now the retired has two options. Either take bank contribution which FULLY Belongs to BANK or Go for pension in lieu of bank's contribution. Where is the question of "part with money"?. How can anyone part with money which does not belong to him. You can't have cake and eat it too

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[Narayanan Venkateshwaran]

Dearn sri Mohan

,It is my considered view that Banks can be contributor to the fund but never owner as, funds belong to the trust.you will not dispute that Banks can never utilise the funds for other purpose

CV Narayanan

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[vrsivaram...@yahoo.in]

Pension regulations 1995 is bogus. We have opted pension according to 1993  -1994 pension regulations. 1995 pension regulation was created without the knowledge of pension optees by bank with the help of unions which is illegal. 

P F contribution of management to retirees was retained by the bank and it is paying pension out of PENSION funds. Bank is investing the amount and it pays out of it and if it earns more out of it  is not going to pay extra amount.

Thank you

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

It is not the responsibility of the pensioners to find a source for pension updation. So let us not worry about the pension fund.

UFBU should take up the issue seriously and consistently with the IBA. Then IBA will approach the government for directions. Then IBA will estimate the expenditure. RBI will allow the Banks to spread the cost over 5 or 10 years. In the past the Banks have provided funds whenever the courts have passed verdicts in favour of pensioners and paid huge arrears. Recently RRBs had to provide huge funds as per court directions and RBI has permitted RRBs to spread the cost over  the next few years.

It is the responsibility of the UFBU to make the IBA agree for Updation.

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[MOHAN P]

Dear Shri Narayanan,

In my view updation of pension is our main issue.

The pertinent point here is only on statutory obligation of

payment of monthly pension/family pension as per Pension Regulations.

Rest of the debates on position of pension fund and ownership etc are in fact irrelevant as far as pensioners are concerned .

Still few pensioners choose to  write continuously  to higher ups on this subject with wrong inputs only  to expose their ignorance.

Regards

Mohan.P

 

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[Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran]

It is futile to discuss about pension funds in this forum and it is not our concern too. The issue is updation and once agreed banks will find funds for the same. Now the question is how far  the demand of updation is vehement. UFBU is expressing lip sympathy and is on the same page with IBA. It is for the UFBU to put forth the demand strongly and once they do it, the issue will be solved. But they are not interested, which is clear from the fact that they could not secure even the legitimate 100%DA for the ex-gratia sanctioned in 2023, though its leader said it was a small issue. Instead the UFBU also talks of funds (or the lack of it), for updation, as the IBA does. As long UFBU adopts this stand updation will be in our dreams only.

As the next step UFBU should ensure a decent improvement in the ex-gratia factor, when they meet IBA this month and ensure the 100%DA  for the entire pension.

G Ramachandran 

CB-SVRS 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Monthly pension payable to us has no relation to the Pension Fund. If the pension fund balance is zero  still the Bank is liable to pay monthly pension. Likewise updation of pension is also no way related to pension fund balance.  If our demand is updation should be implemented because there is surplus in the pension fund, then management can stop paying monthly pension if the pension fund balance is less or xero.

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[Mahadevan Lakshminarayanan]

Our demands are Updation of pension immediately and 100 percent D A for  percent DA for exgrtia with arrears.

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[Ramani Konnayar]

As I have already written many a time, we can never expect UFBU to fight for updation seriously as long as the majority of its membership is under the New Pension Scheme which is an annuity scheme with no index linked DA.

We have to assume ourselves in the position of those under NPS and think if we would support the Unions/Associations to fight for a cause which will not bring any benefit to us but on the other  hand could potentially affect our future benefits by way of salary increases.

K N Ramani 

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[MOHAN P]

 Making  our own assumptions  to justify delay in resolving pensioners major demands may not bring any result except negativity.

Let us be clear on our issues.Who has to allow or approve our demand of Updation of Pension?

No doubt.It is MOF under Govt of India.

They cannot resolve it directly. Existing bilateral discussions and settlements in banking sector resolve the issues of employees as well as retirees.

On various occasions on the floor of parliament , or else where,FM /MOF have clearly stated that Bank retirees issues are resolved under Bi.partite system/Joint notes arrived between bank unions and IBA and if a proposal is submitted by IBA to MOF on updation of pension based on consensus arrived between unions/IBA  same will be considered by them.

Retirees Apex Organisations have already submitted their formulas to UFBU/IBA in this regard.

Reality  here is that  no attempt was made by  Unions to find out a suitable formula or modalities either by themselves or from retirees organisations on updation of pension so far and discussed with IBA,to sort out the issue.

That negative attitude has to be changed by Unions and pave way for forwarding a suitable formula on updation of pension with discussion with IBA without delay to resolve the long pending major demands of pensioners.

There may have thousand and one reasons to justify Govt/UFBU/IBA stand against bank pensioners.

But that does'nt mean that Bank retirees should draw or may draw basic pension through out his life time which was fixed at the time of his/her retirement without any change.

Now,Central Govt  has introduced Unified Pension Scheme (UPS)as an option under National Pension System(NPS) for Central Govt employees w.e.f 1.4.25.which provides assured pay out based on the prescribed condition.

Nothing stays static and change may  take place in banks too in these areas

We have seen that RBI pensioners have secured it through legal and united consistent struggles.So retirees/or their organisations struggle through legal or otherwise   too may have its positive result.

 

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[Saibabu Madiraju]

Wondering why still there is laxity on pensioners not meeting at least a couple of lakh pensioners and be in supreme Court sit silently before judge each Court case date so that they see why so many sr citizens coming, they will pronounce some judgement. Surely. I wish a few leaders think if it to resolve Updation issue

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Shri Mohan ji,

As mentioned by you, there could be thousand and odd reasons for UFBU, IBA and Government to justify their stand against updation, but yet, our demand for the same remains just and reasonable, particularly in the context of government and RBI pensioners getting it.

The reasons put forth by me for UFBU's

lackadaisical attitude are not my own assumptions and these have been spelt out by prominent leaders of UFBU on many occasions, even as they continue to do lip service to the issue.

To conclude, my intention is not to promote negativity or pessimism but only to say that we cannot shut our eyes to the realities.

Anyway, let us remain hopeful as ever that our goal will be achieved.

K N Ramani 

On Fri, 11 Apr, 2025, 3:18 pm MOHAN P, <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Krishnan]

Whether any decision will be taken by SC under special disc powers to sanction updation of pension which has been pending for long

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[Krishnan]

As done in the case of TN Governor

[Niranjan Cn]

Sir

It’s money and money only.

Niranjan 

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[KRISHAN KANT VERMA]

The problem lies with our constitution which is devoid of real Indian values and drafted and conceived by mediocre minds lacking self respect and self consciousness. The conflict inherent in the personalities of people drafting the constitution are deep rooted in our constitution. We are not sure whether our constitution envisaged a principle based or rule based system that is why our governance has been marred by this confusion which led to the most corrupt system of governance but constitutionally right. Pension updation is tangled in this confusion. If we see it from principle angle, it is legitimate and given but if you see it from rule based idea, you have to beg for it.
It is high time this crude copy paste constitution is consigned to the dustbin of history and a constitution embedded in Indian values is written

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[vrsivaram...@yahoo.in]

Sir,

Banks cannot take any decision independently because only leaders have to take decision to negotiate  any issues of employees and retirees. All issues will be discussed  only under Bi Par tight  settlement only.

Even if management comes forward to revise the pension IBA and UNIONS will not allow the management. They have to give permission to the bank.

This looks like if the manager

 presses the calling bell button attender will go in side the cabin and in turn manager has to come out side only if the attender presses the calling bell button.

The future of bank employees and retirees will only change only after amending the by laws of employees union. 🙏🙏🙏🙏

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