EX-GRATIA -CHART

[MOHAN P]

Ex- GRATIA

Chart prepared by AIPNBWF

[Balakrishnan P.P.]

Mohanji,

Is this reply for my mail sent to you on 14th March

Balakrishnan 

Canara Bank retiree

On Sat, 16 Mar, 2024, 09:41 MOHAN P, <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ex- GRATIA

Chart prepared by AIPNBWF

--
Visit our blog site http:://bankpensioner.blogspot.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bankpensioner" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bankpensione...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDSfJT21y2xy%3Dh49axNKk2GjteBG3FQH4SE5D-dtwWkrfg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ramani Konnayar]

It is observed that so many retirees' organisations have published exhaustive and illustrative charts besides excel sheet calculators for a very simple calculation (especially for a retired banker) that involves just multiplying 2 figures and rounding off the result to the nearest 100.

However, it is disappointing to note that till now, there is no authentic communication from UFBU/AIBEA/IBA,  as to whether the actual (tapered) DA received in Oct 2022 should only be taken for determining the amount of ex-gratia in respect of the pre Nov 2002 retirees OR 100% DA could be applied NOTIONALLY (considering that it was implemented subsequently from Oct 2023). Of course, AIBEA has taken it notionally in their chart & calculator but has not provided any explanatory note alongside. 

If the actual DA received is only applicable, the next question that arises is how to calculate the arrears from Oct 2023 to FEB 2024 where DA @100% neutralisation has been paid? 

K N Ramani

On Sat, 16 Mar, 2024, 9:41 am MOHAN P, <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ex- GRATIA

Chart prepared by AIPNBWF

--

[K Balasubramanian]

Oct 22 DA figure only is relevant in computing ex gratia 

No subsequent addition depending on the DA FLUCTUATIONS.so if IBA is not practical enough to read the mind of the old retirees we have to get the shrieked exgratia only till 31 March 24 .

If at all the exgratia is reviwed during April 24  we may get the right exgratia plus any addition they are making. 

They are not magnanimous  enough even to give exgratia on full da average 800 pm  total arrears 15k  assuming one lakh people 150 to 200 crores.even though the affected parties lost in lacs due to the cunning attitude of all the parties involved .

Hope review will give fruit .

K balasubramanian  VRS 2001

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAKyrmoqsObQxvTref9ccxLjQonROFSTJYmBhf1W3TyQsqWOhPg%40mail.gmail.com.

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

For LIC Pensioners also Ex gratia is sanctioned. Whether they have got a better formula is not known.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAKcPo_xrv0HQNiPSustoAc0PGEYTCqvFdSNCbWc4_5qYr_xXag%40mail.gmail.com.

[J/CAIIB WITH MURUGAN]

Yes 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAKcPo_xrv0HQNiPSustoAc0PGEYTCqvFdSNCbWc4_5qYr_xXag%40mail.gmail.com.

[RAJU SHANMUGAM]

Once the  exgratia amount is arrived at based on the tapered DA for pre 2002 retirees there will not be any change in the Exgratia amount until it is reviewed 

In April 24 and during the following years that too with the mutual acceptance between IBA and the negotiating unions

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAKcPo_xrv0HQNiPSustoAc0PGEYTCqvFdSNCbWc4_5qYr_xXag%40mail.gmail.com.

[MOHAN P]

Dear Sri.Ramani,

Since Ex gratia is arrived on actual DR applicable as at Oct.22, and same is fixed based on a formula, there may not be any change in arrears payable, subsequently according to change in DR.Even if allowed to arrive based on 100% DR ,then ex-gratia amount may be higher from oct 22.Thats all.

Till review period in April 24 same fixed amount and arrears based on that may be paid.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAM%3DeiW3yaKaRL%3D3z8KP0XKzak_x-hnynwUavFY68kGWbJj53sA%40mail.gmail.com.

[krishna Moorthy]

Mohanji,

Is there any merger of 8088 points DA for retirees  and if so can you send the chart. I retired on 30.09.1999. 

Can you guide how to Calculate DA in case this merger applies to us.

From a s Krishnamoorthy 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDS2e_b5fXsbgVX9CvEStgX8m0WWzdbiYwBBXYZs2t1%3DeA%40mail.gmail.com.

[MOHAN P]

Mr Krishnamoorthy,

I have already clarified this point.

Any way for your infirmation:As of now no merger of CPI 8088 and change in CPI series to 2016 is  effected to pensioners prior to 1.11.2022.Same is kept under residual issues.

It may be implemented certainly without delay.

Eg: A pensioner retired under 7th BPS 

with BP of ₹7880 may be brought first to Notional BP of ₹ 38158.by merger of DR as above and further DR @ current rate of  15.73% is added.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAP6F%3D6RHEEkDTXjV31CP7RCT6oG5C3zPikJmkJy_BHOs6CUgTQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Srinivasan K]

Sir!this D...@15.73 is as on what date?pl clarify sir

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDShs02t3npj7vZjhSe9FC%2B-iNHVO7ZmWV-M9h2Hb91BYg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Satyanarayana Rao]

Sri. Mohan ji.

If the revised concept of new d.a formula is applied the benefit may be meager.

Unless some load factor is added the one rank one pension theory and satisfactory improvement in pension will not be available uniformly to all pensioners retired in defferent bipartite settlements. 

The demand for pension updation is to compensate  the pre 2002 retirees who are drawing meager pension compared to recent retirees of 12 th bipartite settlement. 

The main expectations of senior and super senior pensioners is their pension should be at par with 12th bipartite retirees as they have been denied periodical revision of pension and 100% of DA for 3 decades.

Solicit your valuable and judicious views on this issue. 

With regards. 

Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDShs02t3npj7vZjhSe9FC%2B-iNHVO7ZmWV-M9h2Hb91BYg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Asok Bhaumik]

AIBEA is the chief negotiator of 12th BPS. So far AIBEA did not disown their ex-gratia calculation sheet (reckoning 100% da notionally) for pre-2002 pensioners published in social media.

This can made pre-2002 pensioners to believe in getting ex-gratia reckoning 100% da whatever may be the views of other unions/associations.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDShs02t3npj7vZjhSe9FC%2B-iNHVO7ZmWV-M9h2Hb91BYg%40mail.gmail.com.

[MOHAN P]

Mr Srinivasan

Let me clarify:

New DA to employees and pensioners is implemented based on CPI 2016=100.

So once CPI 8088  is merged equivalant DA/DR under above was 123.03.

W.e.f.1.2.24 CPI stood at 9122 points equal to 138.76

Current DA/DR under 12th BPS,  is arrived at 1% per 1 point increase, as on date, increase would be 138.76 -123.03=15.73%

This has already been implemented to pensioners w.e.f.1.11.22.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAE4MWAKotxm%3DF_GE82xvAkNubrHoHQaB8%2BZH%3DOBQkNZY1%2BqC6A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Srinivasan K]

Thanks for Ur kind reply sir but still increase is very meagre even after applying the applicable Current revised DA on notional basic pension less commuted amt .

Supreme court alone can give us adequate and appropriate updation in our pension amt.

Thanks once again for Ur involvement, efforts and information sharing sir

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDT0pPjzxyvj_KmKRibuL%3DMGr-bV7k2YcveV1DvDF6Og%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com.

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

There is a provision in the Ex gratia agreement that  it will be reviewed every year and the next review is during April 24 with mutual consent of the IBA and unions.

For such review a meeting will be scheduled with unions in the month of April.

So unions have enough opportunity to negotiate for a better Ex gratia formula, provided they are interested.

Before signing 12th BPS Joint Note/Settlement all leaders were boasting that ex gratia will be around Rs.7000-9000 and it will be substantial etc. But after signing settlement leaders were silent and did not care to explain why Ex gratia was reduced drastically.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAE4MWAKYL8hgV05tX%3D_Mh%3DfiVY8MRoYvs0FJEdpz%2BvcezE4QgQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

In my above posting I expected that there may be some improvement in Ex gratia during the review meeting in April. However CHV has ruled out such a possibility.

Recently SBM pensioners commune has invited Sri CHV to their office. In that meeting CHV said further improvement in Ex gratia will be possible only after the verdict of late Singla updation case in SC.

[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Sri. Mohan, 

Please clarify/give your opinion.

100% DR was sanctioned to pre Nov 2002 retirees only with effect from Oct 2023.

At 8088 points level(1960=100) in November 2021 they had received only tapered DR losing thereby a few thousands of rupees. 

For the purpose of merging DA at the above level for these retirees, ONLY THE DR AT 100% DA HAS TO BE NECESSARILY TAKEN for arriving at the new basic. Because, if the tapered DR is taken, the total of new basic + DR under 2016=100 series WILL BE LESSER THAN THEIR PRESENT GROSS PENSION BY A FEW THOUSANDS. 

So, the question arises, if the DR at 100% could be taken notionally for Nov 2021 for DR merger, why not for Oct 2022 for calculating ex-gratia? 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDS2e_b5fXsbgVX9CvEStgX8m0WWzdbiYwBBXYZs2t1%3DeA%40mail.gmail.com.

[MOHAN P]

Dear Mr Ramani,

Both aspects of merger of DR and change in series of CPI  to2016, need to be taken independently. 

01.It is to be noted that, only in the matter of arriving Ex- gratia to all pensioners, a formula was derived as Basic Pension plus DR there on as at Oct 2022,multiplied by a given Factor.

02.Here too only in the case of pre 2002 pensioners, a  reduction of DR is happened, due to implementation of 100% DR w.e.f. Oct 2023.(Yes.Notionally 100% DR would have been taken)

03.In case of merger of CPI 8088 points towards Basic Pension and  on change in series to 2016, at a later date ( on resolution of above under residual issue) question of tapered DR does not arise.

04.The very purpose of merger of CPI as above  and change of CPI series to  pensioners w.e.f 1.11.2022 and apply the same to all pensioners prior to that period(may  happen shortly) as in the case of serving employees may bring both on same platform with uniform/single  DA/DR rate in future.

05.As at least few anticipate this exercice may not bring much additional increase in monthly pension.

Regards,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAKcPo_zdD-dtCEqp5Obej1GnxRx6UFkED2mHzAez6cZWTBnpZA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ramani Konnayar]

Thanks. I do agree that merger of DA and shifting of base year from 1960 to 2016 are two independent issues. 

My point is that for the pre2002 group, DR received at 8088 level has to be taken NOTIONALLY at 100% for determining the new basic pension, irrespective of whether there is shifting of base year or not. I think you have agreed with this contention in para2  of your reply. 

I remember that in the DA merger chart containing illustrations for all BPS groups which was published by you last

year, you had only taken 100% DA notionally at 8088 level for the pre2002 groups. 

K N Ramani

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDRwMckFG--uq7DyqtFcx-rFpggUyMbvoqeWDv1k5rU1zA%40mail.gmail.com.