RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

[D.S. Saxena]

Sir,

on going through with the PPO issued by different banks, it is observed that restoration of full pension are given after 15 years from the date of options of pension. while several retirees are of the view that the same must be from the

date of birth of retiree i.e 15 years after retirement.

Will you please guide us in the matter.

Thanking you

Yours sincerely

D.S.SAXENA

KANPUR

[PM]

Dear Mr.Saxena,

01. Pension payment,commutation and commutation
factor etc are determined based on Bank Employees Pension Regulations
1995.
02.As per Pension regulations:
" An employee who had commuted the admissible portion of pension is
entitled
to have the commuted portion of the pension restored after the expiry
of a
period of fifteen years from the date of commutation."
03.An employee shall be entitled to commute for a
lump sum payment of a fraction not exceeding one-third of his
pension.Employees can opt for commutation of one-third pension or such
lower limit, as he may desire to commute.He can also decide not to opt
for commutation if he desires so.
04.The lump sum payable to an applicant is
calculated in accordance with the Table given under pension
regulations.
The Table indicates the commuted value of pension expressed as
number of years’ purchase with reference to the age of the pensioner
as on
his next birthday.
So it can be seen that there is co-relation
between the commutation factor as well as term 15 years.
'
05.Yes.Commutation, as per Pension Regulation is
expected to take place at the time of retirement.ie age at next
birthday on actual date of retirement with higher commutation factor.

But here at different point of time commutation has taken place only
on account of second option on Pension agreed as per settlement dt
27.4.2010. This is a unique situation.For example for the age of 61
factor is 9.81 and at 65 it may go down to 8.50 and resultant
decrease in commutation amount may also be there.


As you have stated if restoration period commence at the time of
actual retirement, restoration period for commutation amount will be
over by 2016 for those who retired in 2001.( 5 years as of now)

06.So applying commutation factor as per age at the time of actual
retirement and reducing the restoraion period will mismatch the basis
of calculation as per pension regulations.

Hence the present commutation factor is based on the age at next
birthday on the date of letter for commutation,and restoration period
is also counted accordinly.

[MOHANDAS RAO]

 

Dear Friend,

 

Commutation recovery usually starts from the next month of release of pension and commuted amount and restoration will be done after 180 months' recovery (that is, 15 years). If commutation is done/opted after a few months of retirement, restoraration will be postponed by such months. In case of new pension optees,date of option had no relevance in our bank. To have a common date, our bank has taken 27.11.2009 (date of signing MOU) as a common date for determining age of the pensioner for arriving at the commutation factor and calculation of commutation. But the notional date of commutation was taken as 01.11.2010 and accordingly commutation for them will be restored on 01.11.2025.

 

Our bank has completed the exercise 7 months back.

 

MOHANDAS RAO, SBM SVRS

 

Here is a Powerpoint Presentation attachment for entertainment [like a break in a TV serial]. Interpretation is left to the members.

 

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[perumal maruthu]

Dear Saxsena,

It is clearly stated in Pension Regulations that commuted portion would be restored  after 15 years from the DATE OF COMMUTATION.

M.Perumal

[GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN]

Dear Sir, 

  Para 56 of Pension Regulation  " In case of doubt, in the matter of application of these regulations, regard may be had to the corresponding provisions of Central Civil Services Rules, 1972 or Central Civil Services (Commutation of Pension)Rules 1981 applicable for Central Government employees with such exception and modifications as the Bank, with the previous sanction of the Central Government, may from time to time, determine"

 Extract from Government Clarifications:

"15 year period for restoration may be reckoned from the date of retirement  itself only in cases where commutation of pension was/is simultaneous with retirement.-------------------------------------------------------------------------In all other cases,i.e.where commutation of pension led/leads to a reduction in the second and subsequent , month, the 15 year period will be reckoned from the date of commutation i.e  from the date on which reduction in pension on account of commutation became/becomes effective."  (Ref: Government of India, Dept. of Pension and Pensioners' Welfare OM no.34/2/86-P & P.W.(G) dt 22nd Aug 1990.

       Further, please be guided  as follows with regard to the  reduction and restoration  ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION  as a result of  upward revision of Pension:-

(1) Reduction in the amount of pension on account of upward revision of commutation of pension shall become operative FROM THE DATE OF RECEIPT OF COMMUTED VALUE BY THE PENSIONER. (Ref:Office Memorandum N:F34(3)-PU/80 dt 10 07 1980 issued by Dept of Personnel and A.R.,Government of India.

(2)The reduction in the amount of pension shall be made from the respective dates of the payments (Ref:Rule 6 of Central Civil Services (commutation of Pension}Rules 1981

(3)Reduction in pension on account of additional commutation of pension will be in two stages as per the provisions contained in Rule 6 of Central Civil Services (commutation of pension) Rules 1981 (Ref: Office Memorandum No.38/79/2008- P&PW(G) dated 16 02 2009issued by the Dept of pension and Pensioners' Welfare, Govt of India.)

        But the Banks do not  refer such established Regulations, but acting arbitrarily, which is always detrimental to the Pensioners.

                                              JANAKIRAMAN

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 8:50 AM, D.S. Saxena <dssad...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Bajrang Lal Choudhary]

Dear Sir,   For restoration of commutation 15 yrars are counted from the date of payment of commutation amount,   With Regards,   Bajrang Lal Choudhary --- On Fri, 15/7/11, D.S. Saxena <dssad...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: D.S. Saxena <dssad...@gmail.com> Subject: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

[VenkataMohanarao Rednam]

Dear Mr Saxena,

While paying commutation amount, it is calculated for 15 years. Hence restoration of original pension is from the date of retirement( so to say when U opted for commutation.

--Mohanarao.

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 8:50 AM, D.S. Saxena <dssad...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Kothari Damodar]

Dear to All,
In my view it is not at all justified,as one side we have been paid
less commutation amount oweing to option being available now.so
atleast restoration should be 15 years after retirement or at the age
of 75 years.
I think IBA,Bank Managements and Govt making mockery of natural
justice and fairplay.
Let this question be asked to P.M.,F.M. and IBA chairman in the pennal
discussion with Times now or Head Lines comprising Emminient
jurist,past attroney generals ,retired chief justice and other
judgeses.
This will solve the problem within days spearing valuable times of
judiciary in hundreds of litigations.
Damodar Kothari Retired Senior Manager Allahabad Bank

[J SOMASEKARA]

For the original pension optees First commutation was naturally effected from the date of

receipt of commutation amount ie on the date of retirement. That is proper.

However while awarding 5 years addition benefit court directed the concerned banks to 

recalculate arrears adding 5 years benefit

 For those who were given second pension option commutation will be restored from the date of receipt of commutation amount. If you ask for restoration of commutation from the date of retirement you have to reimburse the monthly commutation amount to be deducted from your pension from the date of retirement till 27.11.09 at once. 

This will be loss to you.

While 5 years addition benefit arrears paid to us bank recovered from us 109 months commutation amount though commutation was disbursed during 2009.

We are demanding that restoration should be from date of receipt of commutation.

However judge has used the word RECALCULATION in the order. 

Pradeep Kumar also in his petition before SC has prayed for refund of commutation deducted.

[GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN]

Dear friends, 

Commutation is to be recovered for 15 years from the date of ACTUAL  DATE OF PAYMENT OF COMMUTATION.  Any additional commutation paid on account of upward revision of pension  is to be recovered from THE DATE OF PAYMENT OF ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION  for 15 years i.e. to be recovered in two stages and to be restored in two different dates in relation to the ACTUAL DATE OF PAYMENT OF COMMUTATION AND ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION. While making payment of arrears during 2009 for the original pension optees the recovery of additional  commutation for 109 months from the arrears of pension(the method adopted by the Banks) is not correct.
                                        JANAKIRAMAN   SVRS IB

[ankalraju ankalraju]

Dear Friends,

Please observe the following and give your opinion on the matter.

On retirement the commutation amount  was paid taking into account the factor based on the age of the employee at the time of retirement.

When the difference in commutation amount was paid  as a result of addition of 5 years of service the commutation difference was recalculated based on the same factor for determining the difference to be paid.

The age of the retiree during 2009 when the difference was paid was not taken into account. Had they taken the age as of the year 2009 the factor might have been much less and lesser commutation amount only could have been paid. So if more amount of commutation was paid based on the age factor at the time of retirement , naturally the

recovery for  109 months from date of actual retirement to the year 2009 seems to be correct. After recovery of 109 months recovery the net difference in commutation amount 

was paid in our bank.

Restoration of original pension  will be 15 years after the date of retirement i.e. the date of disbursement of first commutation amount. The date of payment of difference amount  of commutation is not considered for restoration  of original pension. Both of the commutation amounts would be fully recovered in 15 years from the date of retirement.

We are eligible for 1/3 of pension amount as commutation.i..e. 33% of our basic pension.

If one avails only 20 % of his pension at the time of retirement  and avail the remaining eligible 13 % after say about 5 years, then the  situation will be different. The date of restoration will be on 2 different dates.

20% will be restored after 15 years from the first commutation.  

13% will be restored after 15 years from the second commutation.

In the above case one could get his original pension fully restored only after 20 years from the date of his retirement . This is my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.

With regards,

Ankal Raju,

CBIVRS 2001

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 12:03 PM, J SOMASEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com> wrote:

[J SOMASEKARA]

Instead of recovering 109 months commutation had the bank treated it as second commutation then we had to submit fresh medical certificate and as told by you  commutation also would be less.

[GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN]

Dear friends,

        Various points were raised by Mr J SOMASEKARA, Mr ANKAL RAJU,  and Mr S LAKSHMANAN  on my view regarding recovery of commutation at the time of payment of arrears.  As I already  stated as per OUR PENSION REGULATION - in case of doubt inter alia Central Civil Services (commutation of pension)rules 1981 may be referred for application of these regulations.
          It was raised that we have not applied for additional  commutation and the Bank has recalculated and paid the arrears and as such the Bank is correct in recovering the instalment from date of retirement (i.e 109 months in advance)   As per rule 10 Commutation of pension rules 1981    " An applicant who has commuted a fraction of his final pension and after commutation his pension has been revised and enhanced retrospectively as a result of Government's decision (in our case revised as per Hon'ble Supreme Court), the applicant shall  be  paid the difference between and the commuted value determined with reference to enhanced pension and the commuted value already authorised. FOR THE PAYMENT OF DIFFERENCE, THE APPLICANT SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO APPLY AFRESH.

Commutation factor:    I reproduce the clarifications contained in Commutation of Pension rules 1981:-                             

Point of doubt:

What would be the age to be used for commutation of additional commutable pension and which factor would be used for such additional commuted value of Pension.

Clarification:  The age reckoned for calculation of commuted value of pension at the time of original application for commutation of pension will apply for calculation of commutation value of additional commutable  pension.  

Point of Doubt:

From which date the reduction in pension on account of additional commutation of pension will take effect?

Clarification:  Reduction in pension on account of additional commutation of pension will be in two stages .

Point of doubt:

What will be the date of restoration of additional commutation of pension?

Clarification:  The commuted portion of pension shall be restored after 15 years from the respective dates of commutation.

Production of medical certificate is applicable only  when the commutation is not applied at the time of retirement

      I shall narrate separately the loss to the pensioners on account of application of incorrect method of calculation of arrears by the BANK   in respect of payment of commutation.

                                                G JANAKIRAMAN

[lakshmanan shankarnaraynan]

Dear Mr.Janakiraman,

 

Banks paid pension short and the mistake was rectified/corrected at the intervention of the Supreme Court. It does not amount to revision of pension or improvement of pension, but it is only the payment of correct pension as per pension regulations 29(5). Hence I think restoration of full pension will be after 15 years from the first date of commutation.

 

S.Lakshmanan.

[perumal maruthu]

Dear sir,

Regarding your view on loss mentioned in the last sentence is indisputable. However, SC ruled out the payment of interest in the 5 Years case. I hope harping on this matter will not bring back the loss already suffered. SVRS pensioners were more worried about the 5 Years loss and SC's verdict gave a big relief.

If the recovery period for this particular portion is reckoned from date of arrears payment, again the restoration will also get extended correspondingly. Hence, there may not be much benefit on extended restoration as suggested by you. I welcome your further enlightenment in this regard.

M.Perumal

CB-SVRS

Chennai

From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

[GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN]

Dear Sri M Perumal Sir, 

      Harping on this matter will not bring back the loss already suffered. It is true. But by discussing this issue , we can attempt to prevent the Banks from repeating the mistake when the judgment in favour of BOB retirees forum is implemented and thereby avoid any financial loss.

       SVRS pensioners were worried about 5 years loss because all the pensioners had the knowledge about loss.Pensioners will be worried about any other monetary loss(including the commutation loss) if they are aware of it. This is because, in general, pensioners at the time of getting arrears payment are much interested   in early restoration of commuted portion and they forget about the amount lost by advancing the recovery.

        Even if the restoration get extended correspondingly, definitely there is a benefit to the Pensioner  and a possible benefit to the Pensioner's family.  In my case, out of a total eligible commutation arrears of Rs.51675/- , the bank has held back Rs 35750/- (325 x 110 months).  By extending the restoration this amount can be invested for an yield of about Rs300 p.m. which alone can almost take care of additional recovery of Rs 325/-. We can get the lumpsum amount and repay it by depreciated value of money over a period of 15 years.Why should we allow the Bank to retain the amount which we are legitimately entitled for?   In case of any untoward happenings to the pensioner this amount is with the pensioner's family as no recovery will be effected in family pension.

        I have written letters to the Bank to refund this amount of Rs.35750/-, but  I am receiving only unconvincing reply. I have also marked copies of these letters to various retirees forum.
                                                                                    G JANAKIRAMAN

[lakshmanan shankarnaraynan]

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
To: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

Dear Mr Janakiraman,

 

Thank you very much for the detailed response. However I still think that the commutation arrears payment is the result of the  fixation of correct pension at the intervention of the Supreme Court.

 

With regards

 

S.Lakshmanan

From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
To: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

Dear Mr S Lakshmanan,

         Whether it is revision of Pension or rectification of mistakes,  some benefit is derived from the Court Judgment and that benefit is nullified to the maximum extend possible by the method adopted by the Banks, when there is  established Commutation rules, Regulations and clarifications to ensure the benefit of commutation to pensioners

         Everybody is of the opinion that additional commutation or arrears of commutation paid after considerable delay after retirement  is  not detrimental to the pensioners if it is restored after 15 years from the date of retirement and recovering the payment of such arrears of commutation from the date of actual payment is not  beneficial to the pensioners and thereby appreciating the incorrect method of working by the Banks. It is a carefully calculated approach by the Banks to nullify the commutation benefit.   PF is recovered from the monthly salary and it is paid in one lumpsum at the time of retirement.   Commutation is the other way around.It is paid in lumpsum and it is to be recovered ONLY AFTER PAYMENT for 15 years. It is detrimental to the pensioner  and to  his family and also to the deceased pensioners, by commencing the recovery before making payment.

Please think in a different situation  as follows:
  (1) Now the arrears is paid after the Court judgment of 109 months.  In case the judgment is delivered after a delay of 141 months what will be position in the following example:

       Employee opted for VRS at the age of 54. Age at next birth day 55 The applicable commutation factor is 11.73. ie eligible for commutation of 140.76 months(11.73 x 12)  In otherwords  we will be paid 140.76 months of pension and the same will be recovered in 180 months (15 years).While making commutation arrears after a delay 141 months (court judgment delayed by 141 months)  the Bank will recover little more than the actual arrears of commutation paid and further it will continue to recover for a further period of 39 months. Say if the additional recovery is Rs.500 and for 39 months it amounts to Rs. 19500/-. In this case, without making any arrears the Bank will recover Rs.19500/-   Do you think it is beneficial to the pensioner?

(2)Further Commutation is not recovered in family pension. The pension is stopped and the commutation recovery is also stopped the moment pensioner dies and family pension is paid.  In our cases there was a delay of about 109 or 110 months.  In my case the Bank has recovered Rs325 x 110    Rs35750.   If anything untoward happens next month after payment of arrears(the improper recovery in advance for 110 months amounting  to Rs.35750),   , this amount is a loss to my family.If the Bank has applied the proper method of working according to the established rules and regulations, the loss to the family of the pensioners is avoided.

(3) What will be position if a pensioner dies in the intervening period between date of retirement and before getting  payment of arrears? According to me the deceased pensioner is eligible for commutation of arrears as he was alive as on the date of effect of rectification of mistake or revision of pension (whatever may the word we interpret  -  it is a benefit ) and at the same time no recovery is to be made as the Commutation recovery is to be made ONLY IN PENSION (not in family pension) and there is no pension payment at the time of payment of commutation arrears.   THE ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION OR ARREARS OF COMMUTATION IS TO BE PAID IN FULL TO THE FAMILY OF THE PENSIONER.

Do you still believe that the Bank has applied proper method of working ?   Do you believe the Banks method of working is beneficial to the PENSIONERS, FAMILY PENSIONERS AND DECEASED PENSIONERS?

                                                                     G JANAKIRAMAN    SVRS  IB

On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 10:01 PM, lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN]

Dear friends,

  I forward earlier discussions regarding delayed payment of commutation of pension

                           JANAKIRAMAN

Forwarded conversation

Subject: Re: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

------------------------

----------
From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:42 PM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Dear friends, 

Commutation is to be recovered for 15 years from the date of ACTUAL  DATE OF PAYMENT OF COMMUTATION.  Any additional commutation paid on account of upward revision of pension  is to be recovered from THE DATE OF PAYMENT OF ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION  for 15 years i.e. to be recovered in two stages and to be restored in two different dates in relation to the ACTUAL DATE OF PAYMENT OF COMMUTATION AND ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION. While making payment of arrears during 2009 for the original pension optees the recovery of additional  commutation for 109 months from the arrears of pension(the method adopted by the Banks) is not correct.
                                        JANAKIRAMAN   SVRS IB

----------
From: ankalraju ankalraju <anka...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:43 AM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Dear Friends,

Please observe the following and give your opinion on the matter.

On retirement the commutation amount  was paid taking into account the factor based on the age of the employee at the time of retirement.

When the difference in commutation amount was paid  as a result of addition of 5 years of service the commutation difference was recalculated based on the same factor for determining the difference to be paid.

The age of the retiree during 2009 when the difference was paid was not taken into account. Had they taken the age as of the year 2009 the factor might have been much less and lesser commutation amount only could have been paid. So if more amount of commutation was paid based on the age factor at the time of retirement , naturally the

recovery for  109 months from date of actual retirement to the year 2009 seems to be correct. After recovery of 109 months recovery the net difference in commutation amount 

was paid in our bank.

Restoration of original pension  will be 15 years after the date of retirement i.e. the date of disbursement of first commutation amount. The date of payment of difference amount  of commutation is not considered for restoration  of original pension. Both of the commutation amounts would be fully recovered in 15 years from the date of retirement.

We are eligible for 1/3 of pension amount as commutation.i..e. 33% of our basic pension.

If one avails only 20 % of his pension at the time of retirement  and avail the remaining eligible 13 % after say about 5 years, then the  situation will be different. The date of restoration will be on 2 different dates.

20% will be restored after 15 years from the first commutation.  

13% will be restored after 15 years from the second commutation.

In the above case one could get his original pension fully restored only after 20 years from the date of his retirement . This is my understanding. Please correct me if I am wrong.

With regards,

Ankal Raju,

CBIVRS 2001

On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 12:03 PM, J SOMASEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com> wrote:

----------
From: J SOMASEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 12:57 PM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Instead of recovering 109 months commutation had the bank treated it as second commutation then we had to submit fresh medical certificate and as told by you  commutation also would be less.

----------
From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:36 PM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Dear friends,

        Various points were raised by Mr J SOMASEKARA, Mr ANKAL RAJU,  and Mr S LAKSHMANAN  on my view regarding recovery of commutation at the time of payment of arrears.  As I already  stated as per OUR PENSION REGULATION - in case of doubt inter alia Central Civil Services (commutation of pension)rules 1981 may be referred for application of these regulations.
          It was raised that we have not applied for additional  commutation and the Bank has recalculated and paid the arrears and as such the Bank is correct in recovering the instalment from date of retirement (i.e 109 months in advance)   As per rule 10 Commutation of pension rules 1981    " An applicant who has commuted a fraction of his final pension and after commutation his pension has been revised and enhanced retrospectively as a result of Government's decision (in our case revised as per Hon'ble Supreme Court), the applicant shall  be  paid the difference between and the commuted value determined with reference to enhanced pension and the commuted value already authorised. FOR THE PAYMENT OF DIFFERENCE, THE APPLICANT SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO APPLY AFRESH.

Commutation factor:    I reproduce the clarifications contained in Commutation of Pension rules 1981:-                             

Point of doubt:

What would be the age to be used for commutation of additional commutable pension and which factor would be used for such additional commuted value of Pension.

Clarification:  The age reckoned for calculation of commuted value of pension at the time of original application for commutation of pension will apply for calculation of commutation value of additional commutable  pension.  

Point of Doubt:

From which date the reduction in pension on account of additional commutation of pension will take effect?

Clarification:  Reduction in pension on account of additional commutation of pension will be in two stages .

Point of doubt:

What will be the date of restoration of additional commutation of pension?

Clarification:  The commuted portion of pension shall be restored after 15 years from the respective dates of commutation.

Production of medical certificate is applicable only  when the commutation is not applied at the time of retirement

      I shall narrate separately the loss to the pensioners on account of application of incorrect method of calculation of arrears by the BANK   in respect of payment of commutation.

                                                G JANAKIRAMAN

----------
From: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:58 PM

To: "bankpe...@googlegroups.com" <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "gi1...@gmail.com" <gi1...@gmail.com>

Dear Mr.Janakiraman,

 

Banks paid pension short and the mistake was rectified/corrected at the intervention of the Supreme Court. It does not amount to revision of pension or improvement of pension, but it is only the payment of correct pension as per pension regulations 29(5). Hence I think restoration of full pension will be after 15 years from the first date of commutation.

 

S.Lakshmanan.

From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

----------
From: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 10:01 PM
To: "gj1...@gmail.com" <gj1...@gmail.com>

----------
From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:24 AM
To: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>

Dear Mr S Lakshmanan,

         Whether it is revision of Pension or rectification of mistakes,  some benefit is derived from the Court Judgment and that benefit is nullified to the maximum extend possible by the method adopted by the Banks, when there is  established Commutation rules, Regulations and clarifications to ensure the benefit of commutation to pensioners

         Everybody is of the opinion that additional commutation or arrears of commutation paid after considerable delay after retirement  is  not detrimental to the pensioners if it is restored after 15 years from the date of retirement and recovering the payment of such arrears of commutation from the date of actual payment is not  beneficial to the pensioners and thereby appreciating the incorrect method of working by the Banks. It is a carefully calculated approach by the Banks to nullify the commutation benefit.   PF is recovered from the monthly salary and it is paid in one lumpsum at the time of retirement.   Commutation is the other way around.It is paid in lumpsum and it is to be recovered ONLY AFTER PAYMENT for 15 years. It is detrimental to the pensioner  and to  his family and also to the deceased pensioners, by commencing the recovery before making payment.

Please think in a different situation  as follows:
  (1) Now the arrears is paid after the Court judgment of 109 months.  In case the judgment is delivered after a delay of 141 months what will be position in the following example:

       Employee opted for VRS at the age of 54. Age at next birth day 55 The applicable commutation factor is 11.73. ie eligible for commutation of 140.76 months(11.73 x 12)  In otherwords  we will be paid 140.76 months of pension and the same will be recovered in 180 months (15 years).While making commutation arrears after a delay 141 months (court judgment delayed by 141 months)  the Bank will recover little more than the actual arrears of commutation paid and further it will continue to recover for a further period of 39 months. Say if the additional recovery is Rs.500 and for 39 months it amounts to Rs. 19500/-. In this case, without making any arrears the Bank will recover Rs.19500/-   Do you think it is beneficial to the pensioner?

(2)Further Commutation is not recovered in family pension. The pension is stopped and the commutation recovery is also stopped the moment pensioner dies and family pension is paid.  In our cases there was a delay of about 109 or 110 months.  In my case the Bank has recovered Rs325 x 110    Rs35750.   If anything untoward happens next month after payment of arrears(the improper recovery in advance for 110 months amounting  to Rs.35750),   , this amount is a loss to my family.If the Bank has applied the proper method of working according to the established rules and regulations, the loss to the family of the pensioners is avoided.

(3) What will be position if a pensioner dies in the intervening period between date of retirement and before getting  payment of arrears? According to me the deceased pensioner is eligible for commutation of arrears as he was alive as on the date of effect of rectification of mistake or revision of pension (whatever may the word we interpret  -  it is a benefit ) and at the same time no recovery is to be made as the Commutation recovery is to be made ONLY IN PENSION (not in family pension) and there is no pension payment at the time of payment of commutation arrears.   THE ADDITIONAL COMMUTATION OR ARREARS OF COMMUTATION IS TO BE PAID IN FULL TO THE FAMILY OF THE PENSIONER.

Do you still believe that the Bank has applied proper method of working ?   Do you believe the Banks method of working is beneficial to the PENSIONERS, FAMILY PENSIONERS AND DECEASED PENSIONERS?

                                                                     G JANAKIRAMAN    SVRS  IB

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From: perumal maruthu <perumal...@yahoo.co.in>
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:20 AM
To: "bankpe...@googlegroups.com" <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>

Dear sir,

Regarding your view on loss mentioned in the last sentence is indisputable. However, SC ruled out the payment of interest in the 5 Years case. I hope harping on this matter will not bring back the loss already suffered. SVRS pensioners were more worried about the 5 Years loss and SC's verdict gave a big relief.

If the recovery period for this particular portion is reckoned from date of arrears payment, again the restoration will also get extended correspondingly. Hence, there may not be much benefit on extended restoration as suggested by you. I welcome your further enlightenment in this regard.

M.Perumal

CB-SVRS

Chennai

From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, 17 October 2011 9:36 PM

Subject: Re: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

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From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:33 PM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Dear Sri M Perumal Sir, 

      Harping on this matter will not bring back the loss already suffered. It is true. But by discussing this issue , we can attempt to prevent the Banks from repeating the mistake when the judgment in favour of BOB retirees forum is implemented and thereby avoid any financial loss.

       SVRS pensioners were worried about 5 years loss because all the pensioners had the knowledge about loss.Pensioners will be worried about any other monetary loss(including the commutation loss) if they are aware of it. This is because, in general, pensioners at the time of getting arrears payment are much interested   in early restoration of commuted portion and they forget about the amount lost by advancing the recovery.

        Even if the restoration get extended correspondingly, definitely there is a benefit to the Pensioner  and a possible benefit to the Pensioner's family.  In my case, out of a total eligible commutation arrears of Rs.51675/- , the bank has held back Rs 35750/- (325 x 110 months).  By extending the restoration this amount can be invested for an yield of about Rs300 p.m. which alone can almost take care of additional recovery of Rs 325/-. We can get the lumpsum amount and repay it by depreciated value of money over a period of 15 years.Why should we allow the Bank to retain the amount which we are legitimately entitled for?   In case of any untoward happenings to the pensioner this amount is with the pensioner's family as no recovery will be effected in family pension.

        I have written letters to the Bank to refund this amount of Rs.35750/-, but  I am receiving only unconvincing reply. I have also marked copies of these letters to various retirees forum.
                                                                                    G JANAKIRAMAN

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From: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:09 PM
To: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>

Dear Mr Janakiraman,

 

Thank you very much for the detailed response. However I still think that the commutation arrears payment is the result of the  fixation of correct pension at the intervention of the Supreme Court.

 

With regards

 

S.Lakshmanan

From: GOPALAN JANAKIRAMAN <gj1...@gmail.com>
To: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: bankpensioner RESTORATION OF FULL PENSION

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From: lakshmanan shankarnaraynan <laksh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:10 PM
To: "bankpe...@googlegroups.com" <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>