Re: Digest for bankpensioner@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 11 topics

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vaidya nathan

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Mar 14, 2024, 12:22:26 AM3/14/24
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RAC comparison

Sri Sivaramakrishnan Sir has rightly said. When will we get updation with lacs of  arrears.  Union asked for Nationalisation in 1970.  It was done.  Wanted More branches to be opened in  rural and  transport less villages. Done. Wanted more to recruit for better functioning. Done. All were requests of Union and Management had No Say in these matters. And so is the Management NOW. They Just Follow Union, as it is More convenient.  Those mass recruitment in 1970/80  had its effect now. Now  Union is in a Fix. IBA put the ball in Union Court to settle and is enjoying. Even now, the good salary and benefits to working employees at the cost of recruitment, automation, outsourcing, etc  will show its effect after 10 years. Present employees who get habited to more expensive and lavish living may face the brunt after retirement. As one SBI GM retired had expressed his inability to manage  his house with One Lac pension per month. It happens in mant IT employees retired. So will it be in Banking also.  Only if many old pensioners  are away from the old pension fold, the Remaining living pensioners, if At All Any,  may enjoy the fruits.  It is Well said as RAC accommodation.  
Sivaramakrishnan Sir has rightly pointed out.
Vaidyanathan
Banglore.

On Wed, Mar 13, 2024, 3:43 PM <bankpe...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
nook raju <latika...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 04:05PM +0530

Pl note I hv calculated the ex-gratia of Sri SR Rajaraman. Mr. Badri you
are unnecessary blaming Mr. Rajaraman . Pl note aibea realeased it's
calculator, and they are not fool like us they hv studied than only
calculator released now up to you believe or not
 
On Tue, 12 Mar, 2024, 15:51 Srinivasan Badri, <sriniva...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <1952...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 03:46AM -0700

Mr Srinivasan Badri
 
Yes, it is true that we need clarification from Unions/IBA on the inclusion
of 100 per cent DA neutralization for pre-2002 retireees.
 
But logically, the ex-gratia calculation must include 100 per DA also. When
the demand for 100 per cent DA was conceded, the demand was conceded but
with prospective effect. It does not mean that eligibility itself shifts to
the date of effect.
 
As an analogy, I put forth the following example. If some award staff takes
20 days of Loss of pay in a month and in the same month, he works overtime
also,, how do you calculate overtime wage? Obviously, it is on the total
salary without loss of pay. So eligibility is one thing and actual payment
is another thing.
 
UFBU must convince IBA to issue necessary clarification for inclusion of
100 per cent DA component, as the difference per month may be around
Rs.1000 and arrears may be around Rs.17000. This is substantial for
pre-2002 retirees who are getting the lowest pension for the past two
decades.
 
S Kalyanasundaram
 
On Tuesday, March 12, 2024 at 3:51:54 PM UTC+5:30 Srinivasan Badri wrote:
 
K Balasubramanian <kba...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 04:51PM +0530

Sri rajaram s thinking may be wish ful thinking .but there is theoretical
possibility of IBA can issue clarification if UFBU insists that notional DA
with 100 percent can be taken for calculation as it is also their intention
to allow exgratia on full DA in case of pre Nov 2002 retirees .
We hope that they will not going on stabbing on the same place and make the
pensioner die .
They can interpret anyway they like by giving reason like a debate .for
also can argue .against also they argue .
They are seeing the quantum of pressure before they come to a conclusion .
The bulk exgratia of 9 k 7 k 5k 2 k would have come if there were no back
lash .considering the heavy criticism in the face book pensioner s form
they were forced to modify the formula and announcing the present one .
 
K balasubramanian vrs 2001
 
On Tue, 12 Mar 2024, 15:51 Srinivasan Badri, <sriniva...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
kushal mukhoti <kush...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 11:12AM +0530

So far as I remember, in our branch, overtime wages were calculated on the
gross salary (excluding CCA) received for that particular month. I don't
know whether the procedure was right or wrong.
 
On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 9:44 AM Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <
Niranjan Cn <niran...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 03:57PM +0530

*Pained and shocked to know the demise ofCom G Palani , retiredAGM of BOB.
He was in B O B Retirees movement. He filed cases along with theRetirees of
canara BankHe won the case 1616-1684.at <http://1616-1684.at> the topcourt
of the country. Heartfelt condolences to the bereaved family members *
 
*Niranjan*
MOHAN P <moha...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 11:55AM +0530

*Heartfelt condolences to family of a great leader .*
 
Raghavan s <srv...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 10:27AM +0530

My heart felt condolences. May his soul rest in peace.
 
JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 12:00PM +0530

He did a lot for pensioners. RIP.
 
Gopal Rao Gandhari <grgan...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 12:02PM +0530

Heartfelt condolences to the bereaved family.
 
Com Palani will be remembered forever by all of us.
 
His way of life is a role model for everyone of us.
 
Pray that his soul rest in peace.
 
 
 
Satyanarayana Rao <karna...@yahoo.co.in>: Mar 13 08:42AM

Pray God to give enough strength to the bereaved family members to sustain this irreparable loss. Pray for the departed soul to rest in peace and heaven. 
 
Yahoo Mail: Search, organise, conquer

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024 at 11:55, MOHAN P<moha...@gmail.com> wrote: Heartfelt condolences to family of a great leader .
On Wed, 13 Mar, 2024, 9:44 am Niranjan Cn, <niran...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Pained and shocked to know the demise of
Com G Palani , retired
AGM of BOB. He was in B O B Retirees movement. He filed cases along with the
Retirees of canara Bank
He won the case 1616-1684.at the top
court of the country.
Heartfelt condolences to the bereaved family members 
 
Niranjan
 
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MOHAN P <moha...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 08:47AM +0530

Charter of demand no 28 " Updation of pension in line of central government
and one rank one pension" What was achieved Ex gratia and what is the
amount of ex gratia between 1000 to 3100 for officers per month . What
should have been done to begin with .
we should have got at least updation of those pensioners who retired before
nov 2007 whose pension is pathetic.there no is around 1.5 lakh .rest 6 lakh
pensioners could have waited for 10 th joint note . Those who have retired
recently there pension is not so bad but those who are above 75 their
pension is very meagre .they deserve substantial hike in pension .they have
got some relief through DA neutralization but more relief is required.
Moreover ex gratia is a charge over profit and loss which will affect our
PLI while pension updation will be from pension fund . This issue was again
left at the mercy of courts"
-GS,AIPNBOA
Sadhan Bhattacharyya <sadha...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 09:40AM +0530

This is true. But it is the first time that pensioners issue has been
discussed in the Bipartite negotiations. Bank pensioners are the worst lot
, and though their issue has been noted, the result is pathetic. We have
little hope for the future .Even the minimum medical needs have not been
taken care of. Instead of ex-gratia it would have been more benefic if the
medical insurance issue was resolved.
 
Ramani Konnayar <knra...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 10:27AM +0530

Original thinking of UFBU was on these lines only viz., UPDATION IN STAGES
by doing it for the pre1/11/2002 group of pensioners, to start with.
However, the retiree organisations, wherein the post 1/11/2002 retirees
constituted around 75% of the membership took a hard stand that it should
be " UPDATION FOR ALL OR UPDATION FOR NONE ".
As a result, UFBU had to change their demand and this led to abandonment of
updation and securing ex-gratia.
 
K N RAMANI
 
 
nook raju <latika...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 04:49PM +0530

𝙎𝙤𝙢𝙚 𝙤𝙛 𝙤𝙪𝙧 𝙛𝙧𝙞𝙚𝙣𝙙𝙨 𝙪𝙣𝙣𝙚𝙘𝙚𝙨𝙖𝙧𝙞𝙡𝙮 𝙢𝙖𝙠𝙞𝙣𝙜
𝙣𝙤𝙞𝙨𝙚 𝙤𝙣 𝙘𝙖𝙡𝙘𝙪𝙡𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙤𝙛 𝙚𝙭 𝙜𝙧𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙖 𝙩𝙤 𝙥𝙧𝙚,
2002 @ 100𝙥𝙚𝙧𝙚𝙘𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝙣𝙚𝙪𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙯𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣, 𝙝𝙤𝙬 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙮
𝙘𝙖𝙡𝙘𝙪𝙡𝙖𝙩𝙚 𝙬𝙝𝙚𝙣 𝙞𝙩 𝙬𝙖𝙨 𝙞𝙢𝙥𝙡𝙚𝙢𝙚𝙣𝙩𝙚𝙙 𝙞𝙣
2023.𝘿𝙤𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙛𝙤𝙧𝙜𝙚𝙩 𝙬𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙡𝙤𝙤𝙨𝙚𝙧 𝙤𝙛 18
𝙮𝙚𝙖𝙧𝙨 𝙖𝙧𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙧𝙨 𝙤𝙛 𝙣𝙚𝙪𝙩𝙧𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙯𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣. 𝙎𝙤 𝙬𝙝𝙮
𝙘𝙖𝙣'𝙩 𝙚𝙭𝙜𝙧𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙖 𝙘𝙖𝙣 𝙗𝙚 𝙘𝙖𝙡𝙘𝙪𝙡𝙖𝙩𝙚𝙙 𝙛𝙧𝙤𝙢
0.11.22@ 100 𝙥𝙚𝙧𝙘𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝙙𝙖. 𝙈𝙤𝙨𝙩 𝙞𝙢𝙥𝙤𝙧𝙩𝙖𝙣𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙞𝙣𝙜
𝘼𝙄𝘽𝙀𝘼 𝙘𝙖𝙡𝙘𝙪𝙡𝙖𝙩𝙤𝙧, 𝙞𝙛 𝙞𝙣𝙩𝙚𝙣𝙨𝙞𝙤𝙣𝙖𝙡𝙡𝙮 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙮
𝙖𝙧𝙚 𝙢𝙖𝙠𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙪𝙨 𝙛𝙤𝙤𝙡 𝙩𝙝𝙖𝙣 𝙜𝙄'𝙙 𝙬𝙞𝙡𝙡 𝙥𝙪𝙣𝙞𝙨𝙝
𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙢. 𝙏𝙝𝙚𝙧𝙚 𝙞𝙨 𝙣𝙤 𝙖𝙡𝙩𝙚𝙧𝙣𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙚
JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 10:12AM +0530

AIBEA figures are not final and authentic. Also If it turned out wrong
they do not give clarification. They just ignore it. Wait for IBA
communication to Banks.
 
Harish Midha <harish...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 10:14AM +0530

AIBEA working could have been an unintentional error or perhaps intended to
divert attention to the MAIN ISSUE OF PENSION UPDATION.
The necessary clarification will come in due course.
Let us not fall into the trap and all of us should focus only on PENSION
UPDATION AS PER RBI.
Thanks
 
Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran <chandra...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 04:19PM +0530

1080 will become 1100. 1100X17= 18700 will be arrears. Correct?
 
G Ramachandran
CB-SVRS
 
On Tue, 12 Mar, 2024, 15:51 Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam, <
Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <1952...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 09:20PM -0700

Yes you are right. Regards.
 
S Kalyanasundaram
 
On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 9:44:01 AM UTC+5:30 Gopalakrishnan
Ramachandran wrote:
 
vrsivaram...@yahoo.in: Mar 13 10:17AM +0530

New PENSION scheme is introduced by our great union leaders to pensioners. The scheme is similar to Railway ticket reservation (RAC). Our pension will be revised once in a year subject to. Revision Against Casualties. I. e revision depends upon the number of pensioners death. A very good idea by 9 UNIONS.
 
On 06-Mar-2024 4:30 PM, kds nair <sasidhar...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
Signing of BPS preponed to 10 am on 08/03/2024.
 
On Wed, 6 Mar, 2024, 3:41 pm SAMPATH KUMAR PERAMBAI ALAGIRI, <sk.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
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Logu Kuppan <logana...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 11:05PM +0530

Ok thanks,
 
Can you make and the DA payable from Feb 2023 till today after merger of
8088 points(feb23,Aug2023 and Feb 2024 for the 10 th BPS retiree's.
Thank you
 
 
On Tue, 12 Mar, 2024, 15:50 Mohan Ramaswamy, <mohan5.r...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
MOHAN P <moha...@gmail.com>: Mar 13 02:06PM +0530

Sir,
As I have mentioned here earlier, Merger of CPI 8088 points as in the case
of serving employees /Those who retired w.e.f 1.11.2022, may not be
implemented to past retirees right now.
 
Same point has been kept under 'Residual Issues' for the time being as per
Minutes of discussion held on 8.3.24.
 
Only on future date same may happen.
 
For your information: If merger is taking place right now same is
applicable to all pensioners in uniform with change in CPI series
2016=100,and may not have segregation as 5th to 11th BPS as existing.
 
So all pensioners and employees may have uniform DR there after on
implementation of the same,
Example:Present average CPI.9122(138.76)
Merged CPI (12th BPS).8O88(123.93)
New DR -2016=100 -138.76-123.03=15.73%
Just for an under standing .
 
 
JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 09:12PM +0530

There is no genuine trade union in the Banking Industry working for the
interests of the pensioner community. AIBOC was never interested in
Pensioners issues. CHV on more than one occasion has said pensioners are
not his priority. AIBRF and AIBPARC will not protest against humiliation of
pensioners as they are controlled by major unions. Further they are more
interested in extending AI this pittance to private Banks to retain their
membership and their contribution.
 
On Mon, Mar 11, 2024 at 9:39 AM Seshagirirao Garimella <giri...@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
nook raju <latika...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 04:23PM +0530

Balasundaram Ramaswamy <ramaswamyb...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 06:25PM +0530

Dear Shri Mohan
I observe from the illustration of AIBEA that 100%DR neutralisation has
been considered for arriving at the Ex-gratia for pre 1-11-2002 retirees.
However in the calculator forwarded by you, apparently slab wise DR has
been taken for calculating Ex-gratia.
Please advise whether AIBEA illustration should not be accepted .
Regards
*R.Balasundaram*
 
*Cell:+919880471511*
 
 
Raj Venkat <vrg...@gmail.com>: Mar 12 05:00PM +0530

This will continue to confound the simplicity of approach. IBA like
institutions merged the approach to solutions by creating these problems in
every 5 year bipartitie windows.
https://effectiviology.com/shirky-principle/?utm_source=pocket_mylist
Pl go through the above reference
☝️
Now there is no homogeneity yet it is contrived by averaging out the
benefits in every bipartite.Pensioners born out of the earlier work-life as
workmen still stick on the lower side of bipartites and the groups pushed
to legal solutions at senility and decrepit old age. Grouping of bank's top
brass of all banks in a club or society creates more problems.Niw there is
RBI group SBI group,RRBs,PSBs and private banks within banking regulations
set by RBI.These institutions create more problems instead of solutions as
described in the above article in the link.
V.R
 
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mohan kumar

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Mar 14, 2024, 6:18:41 AM3/14/24
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I strongly feel that exgratia amount will be enhanced substantially to retirees during the April 2024 meeting.
The IBA and UFBU have cheated retirees waiting g for almost 18 years. With the latest settlement retirees are getting arrears in few thousand rupees. If the increase of exgratia was agreed upon on the promises made by both parties the retirees would have got arrears in lakhs. In the next review meeting to be held on April 2024, both IBA and UFBU will  agree for substantial increase and with a clause that the increase will be from prospective effect, thereby denying the arrears. 
This is a trick  played by IBA and UFBU on retirees. 
This is my personal view friends. 
Hope for the best.

Sanjay J

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Mar 15, 2024, 12:09:33 AM3/15/24
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Mr. Mohan Kumar:
Let your personal views become a reality.

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Perianayagam velu

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Mar 15, 2024, 12:14:42 AM3/15/24
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While the union govt makes senior citizen to lead a happy and comfortable  life by giving 20 per ent additional pension.but our union has not bothered.they have cleverly fixed amount like 1500. To 5000 to all retirees irrespective of period and fixed the uniform code  is that. 0.17 to 0.02.formulae.cheated.while retirees of pre 2002 worse offected.they have not taken in to account.one bread brake into so many pieces and distributed to all 

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R Balaji

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Mar 15, 2024, 6:23:46 AM3/15/24
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Why only pre 2002 retirees are affected but also 8th bipartite retirees 

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Hans Raj Manuja

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Mar 16, 2024, 9:09:16 AM3/16/24
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From Jan 1986 to Oct1992/June1993 the factor is 0.17
From Nov1992/July1993 to March 1998, the factor reduced by 0.02 pts to 0.15
From April 1998 to Oct 2002, the factor reduced by 0.03 pts to 0.12
From Nov 2002 to Oct 2007, the factor reduced by 0.05 pts to 0.07
From Nov 2007 to Oct 2012, the factor reduced bo 0.02 pts to 0.05
From Nov 2012 to Oct 2017, the factor reduced by 0.03 pts to 0.03
From Nov 2017 to Oct 2022, the factor reduced by 0.01 pt to 0.03
      I am unable to understand why was the factor reduced by highest pts, 0.05, in 8th BP ? There was no high increase in salary in 8th BP. My basic as AGM was was  just about Rs26000/- and my gross salary was about Rs36000/- only. What fine tuning it is ? 
      Can any body advise ?

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MOHAN P

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Mar 16, 2024, 9:53:49 AM3/16/24
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Dear Hansraj Manujaji,

The question is apt and it is one,in the minds of pensioners.

However,so far no explantion has been found given on  the 'factors' by the stakeholders who have agreed and 'fine tuned' the same with utmost secret.( even while agreeing to see that more Ex gratia amount is allowed to 5th to 7th BPS pensioners and lesser to others)

As such,it is to be presumed that allotted amount is shared with number of  past eligible pensioners with the help of such 'factors' to multiply gross pension as on oct 2022.
If there were any scientific  formula behind this it would have been spelt out clearly by this time.

The rounding off the arrived amount in 00's in favour of bank,exposes the stand of stake holders in whole exercise!

Only Updation of Pension may resolve our issues finally!

Regards,
Mohan.P

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Satyanarayana Rao

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Mar 18, 2024, 12:14:15 AM3/18/24
to bankpe...@googlegroups.com, MOHAN P
Yes Sri Mohan ji. Your observation is correct. The Exgracia concept itself is un scientific and coined by the stakeholders just to conclude the 12 th bipartite settlement.
The government and finance minister time and again has replied in parliament to question raised by the members of parliament regarding pension updation saying that if the government receives proposals it will be approved. 
 As the general election are declared and the Exgracia is only adhoc arrangement we may get pension updation in 13 th bipartite settlement  or if the stakeholders are really serious they  may achieve it in their periodical annual review of the concept Exgracia ritual.
We have to guess and continue our wait for final achievement of pension updation on RBI formula. 


Ramani Konnayar

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Mar 18, 2024, 12:16:02 AM3/18/24
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I think, this may be due to the fact that 100% DA neutralisation was given effect from 8th BPS onwards. So, 5,6 &7th BPS
retirees and 8th to 11th BPS retirees have been treated as two distinct groups. The first group which suffered from tapered DR for 18+ years has been 
compensated more by a higher, I feel. 

K N Ramani

On Sat, 16 Mar, 2024, 6:39 pm Hans Raj Manuja, <manuj...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Jose Tk

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Mar 18, 2024, 12:16:03 AM3/18/24
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Sir,

In the 12 th BPS two new words are landed in Bank Pensioners groups, the meaning  of both are unknown - 1. Past retirees  2. Fine tuning. 😇

JOSE T K
Retiree  from SBT.       16 MARCH 2024


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Balasundaram Ramaswamy <ramaswamybalasundaram@gmail.com>: Mar 12 06:25PM +0530
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