Fw: PSU BANKS PENSION FUND WAS BUILT BY THE EMPLOYEES & RETIREES DURING THEIR SERVICE TENURES SURRENDERING THEIR SHARES IN CPF. HENCE FINANCE MINISTER'S STATEMENT PENSION FUND IS A FUNDED SCHEME BY THE BANKS IS NOT TRUE.

[Debasish Mukherjee]

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From: "psubpf" <psu...@rediffmail.com>
Sent: Tue, 23 Mar 2021 14:29:18 GMT+0530
To: "Nsitharaman" <nsith...@gmail.com>
Subject: PSU BANKS PENSION FUND WAS BUILT BY THE EMPLOYEES & RETIREES DURING THEIR SERVICE TENURES SURRENDERING THEIR SHARES IN CPF. HENCE FINANCE MINISTER'S STATEMENT PENSION FUND IS A FUNDED SCHEME BY THE BANKS IS NOT TRUE.

                                   PSU  BANKS  PENSIONERS  FORUM
                                            (Regd.Under T.U. Act)
                   616,Mahamayatala Road, Basundhara C-102,Kolkata-700084.
                           Mob.No.93307235...@rediffmail.com 

By E.mail & Speed post.                                                                                  23.3.2021.

For Kind Attn.Smt.Nirmala Sitharaman.

To,
Smt.Nirmala Sitharaman,
Hon'ble Minister of Finance,
Govt.of India.

Respected Finance Minister, 
                    RE: PSU BANKS RETIREES PENSION UPDATION-- PENSION FUND OF 
                           THE PSU BANKS WAS ACTUALLY BUILT BY THE RETIREES DURING
                           THEIR SERVICE TENURES AFTER SURRENDERING THEIR SHARES
                           IN CONTRIBUTORY PROFIDENT FUND GIVING AN AUTHORISATION IN
                           WRITING TO THE BANK AUTHORITIES TO TRANSFER TO PENSION 
                           FUND.
                           ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
                       Hon'ble Finance Minister kindly be informed that the PSU Banks Pension fund was actually built by the employees & retirees during their service tenures surrendering their shares in Contributory Provident Fund A/Cs giving the Banks authorisation in writing to transfer their share in CPF to Pension Fund and this is well known to the Indian Banks Association who had advised the Banks to obtain above stated written documents from the employees opting for Pension scheme in lieu of contributory provident fund in 1995. Unlike in State Bank of India and its Associate Banks where pension scheme was in force as third retirement benefit much before 1995 and as such the employees of SBI & Associate Banks need not had to surrender their shares of CPF as had to surrender by the PSU Banks pension optees when pension scheme was introduced in 1995.
                      Hon'ble Minister, under above stated fact you will kindly agree that in spite of contributing to built the Pension fund which fund should have accumulated balance around Rs.3 lacs crores by now, retirees of the PSU Banks remain deprived from their legitimate updation of pension for more than 25 years. This is a gross injustice towards the PSU Banks retirees and in spite of your assurances and after passing of five months nothing has been done in the matter of updation of pension and the retirees have become extreme impatient particularly most affected retirees of pre 2002 who receive meagre amount of pension and have been discriminated and denied from 100% D.A. nutralisation benefit.
                      Even after contributing to build the Pension fund and remaining deprived from legitimate  pension updation when the retirees come across UNTRUE statements from the IBA, and even from Finance Minister either scarcity of Banks fund to meet the cost of updation or the Banks Pension scheme is a funded scheme by the Banks the retirees get upset and demoralised  with suspicion to believe that a conspiracy has been planned to dupe the retirees and deny their legitimate pension updation. Further, another news of EMBAZZLEMENT OF ROBUST PENSION FUND HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED BY A SECTION OF MEDIAS. IF THE NEWS IS INDEED TRUE THEN WHY THE FINANCE MINISTRY DID NOT INSTITUTE ENQUIRY ON THIS SERIOUS MATTER RAISING AND  STRENGTHENING OF FURTHER SUSPICION ABOUT INVOLVEMENT OF THE BANKS TOP MANAGEMENT WITHOUT CONSENT OF THE FINANCE MINISTRY.
Hon'ble Finance Minister,we the poor and helpless Bank retirees only request your early reply in clear terms if the retirees pension updation will at all take place as you announced in a number of public meetings and if at all takes place by which date the retirees can expect since in today's technology advanced era collection of data and compilation works cannot take more than one month's time particularly when the Banks are equipped with advanced technologies.

Thanking you,
D.Mukherjee,
        &  
M.N.Venkatraman,
 Joint Convenors.
                              
                         
                                           

 

[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Making a statement that  employees have created the pension fund and pension updation should be allowed as there is balance of Rs 3 lakh crore in the pension fund is a very dangerous one. This will lead us to accept that if the pension fund does not have enough balance, we need not be paid,  not only updation but also even the pension whatever we are drawing now. 

We are eligible for pension (as per present terms) irrespective of the balance in the pension fund.  It is common sense that if the pension has to be improved then there will be additional expenditure for the bank. How the bank is going to meet this additional expenditure or how the pension fund will be managed etc. need not be our concern. We demand or request updation on the lines of RBI pension scheme, which was originally accepted. Let us not say that this much of balance is there, that is why we should be paid. This will create trouble for us. 

Whenever the government makes a statement that banks pension scheme is a funded scheme, it simply means that there is a pension fund created and nurtured to take care of future pension payment unlike the government pension which is paid out of tax payers money every year. Banks payment of pension is not out of P&L but out of Pension corpus fund. Government pays out of its Revenue every year like salary payment. Banks are supposed to maintain enough balance in the pension fund to pay up to the last pensioner. 

Please see  Clause 7of the Regulation: 

Composition of the Fund:- 

The Fund shall consist of the following, namely:-

 (a) the contribution by the Bank at the rate of ten percent per month of the pay of the employee; 

(b) the accumulated contributions of the Bank to the Provident Fund and interest accrued thereon upto the date of such transfer in respect of the employees;

 (c) the amount consisting of contributions of the bank along with interest refunded by the employees who had retired before the notified date but who opt for pension in accordance with the provisions contained in these regulations;  

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Ramarao Velagapudi]

absolutely right in respect of all PSBs, except SBI

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[Sanjay J]

Making a statement that  employees have created the pension fund and pension updation should be allowed as there is balance of Rs 3 lakh crore in the pension fund is a very dangerous one.

how the pension fund will be managed etc. need not be our concern.

.........This will create trouble for us. 

This was exactly what Shri C.N.Prasad was trying to point out. “Instead of helping us to get updation, it would do harm to us”.

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Cut approval layers for faster privatisat ..

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/81661564.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAK_UXCiCmFfPPwDH_ROH2HDmq%2BmxRA-3OdyngN1FOFDvRspiRw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Anantharaman Tg]

Is not the similar layers, I mean , in our issues also ,

delays the settlement? Particularly when those affected

are senior/super senior citizens.

The Department should, if not suo moto, at least on the

basis of Minister's positive attitude and the numerous 

appeals by the pensioners, extend the benefit earlier

extended to RBI, NABARD etc.

So many had been deprived of their benefits because of

delays from all sides. The one relating to Family Pension

is a typical one!

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAM%3DeiW1P0VVG1cXMjZnP%3D_MJPUAtCwsOsUJKABgTdDB7YdX6fQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chandrasekaran V]

Issues are -

(1) OTHER THAN SBI (and Associate Banks), Pension Corpus in other public sector banks came from the 'contribution' of employees, either by way of transfer OR the employer contributing IN LIEU OF Employers' Contribution to CPF

(2) OTHER THAN SBI (AND Associate Banks), employees of other public sector banks are NOT ENTITLED TO Pension as Third Benefit, but only as a SECOND BENEFIT.

(3) Behind the demand of 'other Public Sector Bank employees', the SBI/Associate Bank employees/pensioners ARE ALSO DEMANDING 'updation' of pension AND HENCE THE CONFUSION CREATED IN THE MINDS OF THE FINANCE MINISTRY OFFICIALS by the Union leaders and IBA for reasons unknown.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAGpzJrBKGzdtCP2m6B8a-F%2B3%3DbR%3Dvx7EaDDAj9GXsemO1yMepg%40mail.gmail.com.

[KUNAL SINGH KHARAYAT]

Updation in not possible.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAP9-UeLQjCrMm-pdsB-P8JpSmp4Qw1WudfRLUb2B8Jkc9XC7pQ%40mail.gmail.com.

 

[satyendra kumar bansal]

Get Outlook for Android

---

From: bankpe...@googlegroups.com <bankpe...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of KUNAL SINGH KHARAYAT <kskks...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 5:24:02 PM
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: bankpensioner Re: Fw: PSU BANKS PENSION FUND WAS BUILT BY THE EMPLOYEES & RETIREES DURING THEIR SERVICE TENURES SURRENDERING THEIR SHARES IN CPF. HENCE FINANCE MINISTER'S STATEMENT PENSION FUND IS A FUNDED SCHEME BY THE BANKS IS NOT TRUE.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/4A818F04-3F36-4AE8-8D44-9CF7FF92793E%40hxcore.ol.

[Sridhar Mandyam]

It is like saying "There is lakhs of crore deposit in SB accounts of my Bank. I am also a SB account holder. Why cant bank give 10 percent interest on my deposit"

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/4A818F04-3F36-4AE8-8D44-9CF7FF92793E%40hxcore.ol.

[Mani B]

Before getting amalgamated into SBI, associated SBI bank employees were covered under EPS 1993 n EPR 1995. They are not extended with the third benefit prevailing in SBI  even after amalgamation and continued to cover under EPR 1995. Hencer their claim along with PSU retirees is correct.

Bala

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAKAEprx0dv2WcfFhETERtADm5-q%2B8qjS5yA-fYF-%2B3suO0EtUA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Prasad C N]

Dear Sir,

Erstwhile Associate Banks of State Bank of India are also covered under Pension Settlement dated 29.10.1993.  I am attaching a copy of the Settlement dated 27.4.2010, where it is provided explicitly.

Thanks, a Million. 

With regards,

Prasad C N

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[KUNAL SINGH KHARAYAT]

There is no move for pension Updation.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: 'Prasad C N' via bankpensioner
Sent: 26 March 2021 15:56
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/1155920777.461138.1616741164470%40mail.yahoo.com.

 

[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Without understanding the issues involved, writing letters to FM will not solve our problem. We will be a laughing stock. 

As it has been explained number of times, the existing pension fund is maintained as per actuary estimation to pay pension up to the last pensioners as per existing pension formula. If the  pension formula is to be changed, then the  pension fund must also undergo change with additional contribution by the bank. Persons who are instrumental in making VIPs to take up our cause must ensure proper placement of facts/issues/demands to the appropriate authority. 

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Ramarao Velagapudi]

The members are only protesting the false claims of FM that Pension Fund is created by contributions by banks ONLY. This is fallacious.

Our rights for updation will NOT be conceded by DFS which is the hidden hand controlling all issues handled by IBA. Only Hon'ble High Courts and Hon'ble Supreme Court are the only constitutional bodies still upholding the constitutional guarantees and Rights of citizens and employees.

Hence, pursue the cases, contribute to groups fighting the issues in courts for long. Not just monetarily, your active contribution of ideas will greatly advance our cause

Ram

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 3:44 PM Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <1952...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Mr Ram

Please see  Clause 7of the Regulation: 

Composition of the Fund:- 

The Fund shall consist of the following, namely:-

 (a) the contribution by the Bank at the rate of ten percent per month of the pay of the employee; 

(b) the accumulated contributions of the Bank to the Provident Fund and interest accrued thereon upto the date of such transfer in respect of the employees;

 (c) the amount consisting of contributions of the bank along with interest refunded by the employees who had retired before the notified date but who opt for pension in accordance with the provisions contained in these regulations;  

Even after this, if you have the opinion that the employees have contributed for the pension fund, it is your choice. 

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Sridhar Mandyam]

WWe should also calculate what is our contribution if at all there. How much pension we are getting?. The pension we are 

getting is in line with the present return on our contribution if it were to be invested elsewhere. We have to consider all this before 

making any charges like embezzlement etc.

Sridhar Mandyam

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[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Mr Ram

When we were under PF Scheme, Banks used to pay us salary (Basic, DA plus Allowances) to the debit of P&L Account. From the salary disbursed to us, our PF contribution was being recovered. In the salary slip it was shown as a deduction from our salary. Right? Then this was our contribution. 

Now come to the Banks contribution to PF. Banks used to debit the P&L Account and directly credit the PF Account without making any disbursement to us and recovering from us. Hence this is banks contribution and not employees contribution. 

This was not added with our income even for income tax purposes as there was no disbursement to us.  The  credit of this amount in PF account was not eligible for investment under Section 80C also, as this was not made by us. 

Employees' and Employers' contributions and also accumulations were kept separately for all accounting purposes. 

S Kalyanasundaram 

On Tuesday, March 30, 2021 at 3:54:31 PM UTC+5:30 ramvela...@gmail.com wrote:

[Seshaiyer Devadass]

Dear Sir,

As hitherto the bank was contributing 10% of bp of employee and employee also contributed 10%. Now instead of crediting the 10% of Bank to PF fund, it is being credited to Pension fund. It is the obligation on the side of the bank to contribute. Hence Pension fund is being funded by employees themselves and is the sole property of retirees

S.Devadass, State Bank of India - Retd, Palani-624601

Cell:9442250104

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 9:35 AM Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <1952...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Seshaiyer Devadass]

Dear Sir,

It is the bilateral settlement for contribution of PF by bank. What happens when you retire? Before Pension scheme came into effect, you have been given both the contributions to you. By surrendering one PF, you are getting pension. Hence it is our own property. There may not be different meanings

With regards

S.Devadass, State Bank of India - Retd, Palani-624601

Cell:9442250104

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

I am a pre 2002 retiree.  The bank's contribution was arround 3 lakh. Now my pension is over Rs 25000. Would I be getting this much if my contribution is misappropriated? 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAAHMSiskvTD0LWKbOaT5g3wJfR447pPm5Rcj4KFWWPhUjRx6ow%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sridhar Mandyam]

Dear Sir,

By surrendering the banks contribution we are getting pension in exchange. Right? Then which is our own property? Surrendered PF? if so we have to say something is our own 

property even after surrendering it in exchange of some other thing. We will be owner of two properties by surrendering

But my point was about mismanagement of pension fund as claimed by many. If it is mismanaged how I am gettingover 25000 as pension per month for mere investment of Rs 3 lakh

Sridhar Mandyam

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[kushal mukhoti]

The two main points of this debate are- (1) whether we have made any contribution towards the so-called 'Pension Fund' and (2) Whether there is any embezzlement/misappropriation of the said 'Pension Fund'.

In my case also the bank's contribution toward PF was around 3 lakh, the amount which I was entitled to receive had I not opted for pension. I had to surrender the amount in writing as a pre-condition to receive a pension per month at a stipulated rate along with DA. I have received more than 32 lakh as a pension so far. So, one cannot say that I have not paid a single rupee towards the 'Pension Fund'. As soon as I surrendered the bank's contribution toward PF and started receiving the pension, that amount became the bank's property and I have no rights or any concern over that amount. The bank is liable to pay me the pension as per rules no matter whatever they have done with the fund. We all know that this pension fund is replenished every year by debiting the P/L account as per the actuary report. Our contribution is nothing but a drop of water in the sea. 

  My only concern is that will a bank continue to pay the pension as usual if the concerned bank is sold to a private entity? What will we do in case they stop paying the pension? Fight court cases individually till death? Even if we fight cases and win, will the bank honour the verdicts of the court?  We have a bitter experience. We have not yet received the commutation arrears despite the SC order. 

My apprehension is that the privatization of PSBs will stop by selling only two PSBs. If the government succeeds in the first attempt, they will not spare even the SBI also in the long run. 

We should remain prepared for the worst to come. 

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[LakshmanRao Kantamsetti]

There is mismanagement of pension funds . 

There is no dispute. 

When things worsen 

We may anticipate problem in getting pension regularly same as we are getting now.. Leave alone improvement  

We may lose 0.5 percent extra interest 

Locker rent at par with working employees .

Government lists out and start snatching away one after the other . During march 2020 railway rebate of railwayvfare was withdrawn suddenly. 

7 years we have been watching what sort of government we gave. It favours ambani and adani only . We take time to open our eyes. Remember  FRDI law after the elections will be over .

Safeguard your deposits . Plan it right now sir. 

Country did so many things to you. Think if what you can sacrifice for the country sir ?

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

Once you surrender in exchange of pension you cannot claim you have contributed. You have withdrawn your contribution in exchange. Regarding vague apprehension that in some future date pension may be reduced, it is true with our deposits in govt banks also. At present we need not worry much about it.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAFGan-po7QsPyBKmTDfSW8960uLpW18ZmqJWgURJCnd-oeB0LQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Sridhar Mandyam]

What Mr. Rao has mentioned is universal problem. During this unforeseen pendamic many lost jobs, salaries were rduced, or freezed. Thank God we were insulated. We got our DA and pension.  About reduction in interest rate and railway concession, it is a general issue not particular to bank pensioners 

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 10:15 LakshmanRao Kantamsetti <contac...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[LakshmanRao Kantamsetti]

Even the private bank has to take care if the pensioners as pension fund will   transformed. 

But who knows whether the private Bank sticks to rules .

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[LakshmanRao Kantamsetti]

Once the mismanagement crosses a limit then you will start getting less than what you are getting now 

Ethis and morals disappeared 

He ce I am.saying 

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

Yes. Once mismanagement crosses a limit even depositors loose their deposit. So there are certain checks like Audit RBI audit. We have to have faith in the system.  If we start doubting every thing there is no end

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[Nagaraju Kakani]

Sairam, Because the in-service employees contribution and those who left this world are earning on their part of Pension fund in the form returns on investment,  which makes the banks to pay  the Pension., which I feel, if any suggestions or different opinions on this are welcome .

With regards 

Nagaraju Kakani 

Nallagandla, Hyderabad 

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 10:09 Sridhar Mandyam <mandy...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

You cannot use the interest earned on in- service employee for payment of retired employees as it should be paid to them at time of retirement. So major part of our pension is paid from bank's P&L. If one calculates best interest rate at present rate on our supposed contribution tl pension fund,we may not get even half of what we are getting now. We should take all these into consideration, before. The best place to look for about the pensioners who left this world is any website of Insurance Companies. They have two types of pension scheme, with Return of Pricipal (RoP)  and without RoP.  Ours is similar to without RoP.  For a capital of Rs 10 lakh, insurance company pay Rs8000 to 9000 max. We are getting more than twice for lesser capital. 

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