Life Certificate

[Ramesh Inamdar]

Dear Members,

My Bank has sent email informing last date for submission of 'Life
Certificate' is 30-11-2012.
If any body having 'Format', pl. forward.
Also clarification on following:
Is it must that the Branch Head of 'Pension Drawing Branch' only is/
authorized required to sing 'life certificate' or any other Branch
Head's signature will suffice.

Thanks,

R Y Inamdar

[Krishnan]

This is the format of life certificate in our Bank(syndicate Bank ) and can
be submitted also.
Regards
Krishnan

--
Visit our blog site http:://bankpensioner.blogspot.com
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"bankpensioner" group.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bankpensioner?hl=en-GB.

[Narendra Khutate]

Dear friends,

I read somewhere that if the pensioner appraches personally to the pension paying branch for operations to his account, no life certificate is required to be submittes and the branch has to certify on behalf of the pensioner.

Narendra Khutate

[seshadri nadhan]

life certificate has to be issued by a competent officer of the pension paying branch, Pensioner has to be present there and the officer will sign the certificate having seen the pensioner. as a proof of having seen the pensioner they will get the signature of the pensioner. Apart from life certificate pensioner has to give a non employment certificate. all the formats/forms will be available in a pension disbursing branch,,,seshadri

[Heramba Dongre]

Dear Inamdar 

 

Life Certificate form will be available in your Bank

Bankers are supposed to supply the same free of 

cost.  Kindly present yourself in the Bank on any

working day and sign the Life  Certificate

 

Regads 

 

G S Heramba  

 

 

 

[Perumal Velayudhan]

hi,

as per syndicate bank website link to benefits for retired staff "know your retirement benefits" life certificate has tobe submitted by every pensioner in the month of November every year

to quote

"Life Certificate:

All the Pensioner have to submit Life certificate as per Annexure 2 during November every year. The Family pensioners have to submit Non Marriage/remarriage certificate as per Annexure 3 in addition to the life certificate"

the format as given in annexure 2 is as under

SYNDICATEBANK

-------------------- BRANCH

EX-STAFF PENSIONER’S LIFE CERTIFICATE

Name and address of the Pensioner :

Pension Number :

Pension A/c No :

Date of Birth :

PAN Number :

I hereby certify that Sri/Smt. ……………………………………………………

is alive as on this date.

Place:

Date : Signature of Pensioner Signature of Authorised Officer

I do hope that all banks may be following the same guidelines.

reg appearence in person for life certificate, it may not be necessary. 

Excerpt from bk of baroda guidelines for payment of pension states that life Certificate: The pensioner would be required to furnish a life certificate in November each year in the form prescribed in Annexure XVII (Page-44). Officers of the Reserve Bank of India and of the Authorised banks listed in Annexure I are authorised to give life certificates for

this purpose."

vmperumal

On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Narendra Khutate <n25...@gmail.com> wrote:

[sankaran subramanian]

Brothers, You have to submit Life Certificate once in year to the Bank. There is no exemption for it. It is practice for all pensioners in all departments. . So approach your pension paying branch and submit the certificate thereby receive pension without interruption. sankaran. s --- On Sat, 20/10/12, Narendra Khutate <n25...@gmail.com> wrote:

[vijayavittal mulbagal]

PLZ DONT WORRY ABOUT THE FORMAT...GO TO THE BRANCH...THEY WOULD GIVE YOU THE FORMAT AND PLZ SIGN IT IN FRONT OF THE OFFICER


VIJAYAVITTAL





On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 10:29:21 +0530 wrote

--

Visit our blog site http:://bankpensioner.blogspot.com

---

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bankpensioner" group.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bankpensioner?hl=en-GB.

In God Do We Trust
M.Vijaya Vittal
202,Keerthi Bhadra Apts,
Gokhale Nagar,
Ramanthapur,

Hyderabad..500 013.Ph:040-27034622
AP Mob. 099637 46222

Catch India as it happens with the Rediff News App. To download it for FREE, click here

[Mosalikanti Venkata Ramana Rao]

Dear Sir,

Please find enclosed Life Certificate - Blank


M V Ramana Rao

[Prasad C N]

Dear friends,

Some time during last year, we had discussions in respect of Life Certificate.  In view of Judgment of KHC in respect of 5 years and 50% issue, I have following questions regarding Life Certificate :

a. KHC has held that the Pension Regulations are supreme and Banks have no right in altering the terms of payment of pension without enabling provisions in Pension Regulations.  Please provide the provisions under which Banks can insist on providing Life Certificate ;

b. Central and State Government Pension Regulations do provide provision relating to submission of Life Certificate and format for such Life Certificate ;

c. Please provide me the relevant regulations which provide for stopping of Pension, if Life Certificate is not submitted.

d. Please also share with this group the implications of submission of Life Certificate, even if there is no provisions in Pension Regulations.

I HAVE NOT SUBMITTED LIFE CERTIFICATE FOR LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND I WANT THE BANK TO STOP PENSION, SO THAT CORRECT POSITION OF MY RIGHT COULD BE MADE KNOWN.

 

Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

---

From: Mosalikanti Venkata Ramana Rao <mosalikant...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 22 October 2012 12:30 PM

Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate

[R Balaji]

SIR
IN CORPORATION BANK, ONLY THE BRANCH MANAGER HAS TO SUBMIT THE LIFE CERTIFICATE OF THE PENSIIONER EMPLOYEE FOR HAVING CONFIRM HIS ALIVENESS.
BALAJI

[M A Prasad]

Couple of years back, when I was overseas, Canara Bank stopped my pension (reason being life certificate not submitted).  When I returned to India, I submitted and they credit the entire arrears.  In between once when I forgot to submit the life certificate, Canara Bank again stopeed pension for couple of months and paid once Life certificate was submitted.  Of course, since I knew the regulations for central government pensioners, I assumed our regulation is also on the same lines and did not fight against such stoppage.  I think Canara Bank is stictly enforcing the same even now - other canara bank members can say whether I am right or wrong.

Regards,

M A Prasad
Mob: +91 75985 12516

Res: F12, Sri Karpagavruksham Apartments

        Subramaniapuram Road, Seshadripuram

        Srirangam, Trichy 620006

[J SOMASEKARA]

Canara bank on its website made following announcement during SEP 2012.
In case the Pensioner fails to submit Life Certificate within the stipulated date, the pension disbursing branch will block all debit transactions in the pension crediting account of the Pensioner concerned and allow withdrawals/debits only after submission of Life Certificate.

I have no doubt Canara Bank will strictly enforce it as it has done in the past. If we want to stop it we have to approach courts and as all of us aware how much time needed to decide the issue in court. Further no pensioner can afford to manage without pension for many months.

However on legal point of view Mr.C.N.Prasad is correct. But convincing banks is difficult. But there is another safety aspect we should not forget.
The date on which pensioner dies Pension disbursement must stop. But how a manager should know whether pensioner alive or not.A decade back or so pensioner need to personally come to the bank to draw pension. Now there are many ways to draw pension viz debit card, Internet banking, Phone banking, etc. There is every possibility that third party continue to draw pension even after death of pensioner without being detected. Life Certificate need to submitted personally and to be signed before officials
who verify signature and certify.  This ensure that manager has followed procedure
and protect himself from risk.
Further policy is framed by management. The manager of branch where we draw pension cannot change it nor he cannot afford to violate it. When we worked as officers/Managers we enforced it strictly and obtained Life Certificate.
In view of this though legally it is not required there is no harm in submitting it and cooperating with branch.
This only my view.

[R Balaji]

Is it not fair on the part of every pensioner to visit the branch where his pension is being credited atleast once in a year.
Balaji

[SIKANDER GULATI]

Dear Friends,
Friends,  there is varied discussion  over the issue of Life certificate. Why so much of fuss on the blog. What is the harm in submitting this to the bank? You can send the same where ever you are. Attestation can be done by any branch now as the branches are CBS.
Why do we think of courts for every small issue? There are other burnt issues concerning the retirees. Concentrate on those.  Life certificate is a minor issue or no issue at all.

Regards.

S.L.Gulati
Adv. & Tax Consultant

[C P V Nair]

The issues raised by Shri CNP are pertinent.Though there MAY  not be any legal support, the central/state govt/LIC JeevanSuraksha policy pension holders are compelled to furnish life/existence certificates periodically.

 

The nature  of pension is altered as soon as the death of the pensioner is notified.Normally, this is to be done by the survivors of the pensioner.In the past, there have been reports of bank branches disbursing pensions even after death of the pensioner.I have come across disciplinary cases on branch managers/accountants for failing for stoppage of pension disbursements at the appropriate time.Unfortunately, such officials are made responsible.

 

As far as I know, a few banks are not so strict about obtentions of life certificates in r/o its retirees. Really speaking, I am astonished to read the position in Canara Bank when Shri CNP discloses that he has not yet furnished the certificate so far.The central govt pensioners are well organised than bank pensioners.So there could not be any 'taken for granted' rules with regard to life cerificate, stoppage of pension etc.

 

We are in a time when the ac holders need not visit the branches personally to withdraw monies from the Acs.The branches/pension disbursing offices should have some mechanism to find out whether the pensioner is live or not.Also, in many bank branches, there is a practice of taking the life certificate of civil/defence pensioners at their residence places in cases where they are ill and are incapacitated to visit the branches personally.

 

This is what I have perceived in respect of  the Life certificates.Let us interact further to know what are the legal implications of not submitting the certificates .

 

 

Warm reg

 

 

 

CPVNAIR

[Prasad C N]

Dear friends,

I request members to :

a. Please know your rights.  Please spend Rs.10/- and send a request to the Bank Management to send you the relevant provisions in Pension Regulations, under which the Bank can withhold pension and they can insist on submission of Life Certificate ;

b. In case they have stopped Pension, send a notice.  Such notice serves two purposes.  It proves that you are alive and just on that basis they have to credit Pension.  Later, file a petition in Consumer Court demanding damages ;

c. Please forget that you are part of Bank Management.  Please assert your rights.  They may even ask you to present in the Bank every day, with the same grounds ;

d. Please think about retirees who are in remote corners of the country, without their Bank branch close by.  Please think about time, cost and efforts required.  Think about such persons who are also paralyzed.  

e. Even for Central/State Govt Pensioners, Pension is not being stopped without sending a notice by registered notice, despite their Pension Regulations/Rules provide for submission of Life Certificate.  Are we inferior to them ?  

 

Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

---

From: R Balaji <rbal...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012 2:05 PM

[Perumal Velayudhan]

Dear Prasadji,

In bank pension regulations , there is no  provision for submitting life certificates, but the individual banks have issued instructions for submission of life certificates, may be based on other govt/dept rules.

Provision for stopping pension if life certificate is not submitted , is available in many govt pension regulations

http://rrewa.org/Article/Pension/35/Pensioners%20Hand%20Book%20e-edition%20corrected.pdf

Pensioners Hand Book 2010Guidelines forCENTRAL GOVERNMENTRETIRING OFFICIALS AND

PENSIONERS  (Including Rlys) stipulates 

"Certificates Required by a Bank from Pensioner

(a) Life Certificate: The pensioner will present himself before the

competent pension disbursing authority to furnish a life certificate

in the prescribed form, to be obtained from the competent officer

of the RBI or public sector bank authorized for disbursement of

pension in the  month of  November  each year. The pension

including element of dearness relief from November onwards will

not be credited in the pensioner’s account by the bank in case he

fails to furnish the required certificate by presenting himself

before the competent officer. In case of serious illness/

incapacitation and on production of medical  certificate to that

effect, officer-in-charge of paying branch may depute an officer

of the bank to visit the pensioner for recording life certificate"

------------

similarly under tn govt pension rules http://www.tn.gov.in/dop/p12.htm

12.7    Other Formalities

(i) Under S.R.78 to T.R.16 the pensioner has to appear before the treasury officer / P.P.O. once in every year and identify himself. ( Mustering ) Government have provided to furnish Life Certificate, non-employment, non-remarriage, non-marriage certificates, at any time during the months of April, May and June of EVERY YEAR to the Pension Disbursing Officer after duly getting attested by the Revenue Inspector, Deputy   Tahsildar, Tahsildar,  Gazetted Officers of State and Central Government, Bank Managers of the banks where the pension is drawn under Pilot Scheme.  

If such Life Certificate is not produced before 30th June of every year, the Pension Disbursing Officer has to call the pensioners for annual mustering during the month of July.  If the pensioner fail to furnish Life Certificate OR appear for annual mustering , the payment of pension shall be stopped from the month of August pending furnishing such certificate or appearing for muster.(G.O.376 Fin. 3.5.1994, 587 Fin. 12.7.1994 751 Fin. 2.9.1994, 212 Fin. 24.5.2001 and Govt. Lr. No. 45061/Pension/2001-1 Dt.29.6.2001) Pensioners specially exempted from personal appearance by the Government Women who are not accustomed to appear in public, and pensioners who produce satisfactory evidence that they are unable to appear because of bodily illness or infirmity need not appear at the treasury in person to claim payment of their pensions. (T.R. 16 S.R.66(6)).

Life certificate is a must , as other wise , in many cases, death of pensioners is not reported and their kith and kin continue to draw pension and amount will go to persons who are not the beneficiaries.

There were few cases where i worked as branch manager, where the death of the pensioner came to light only when we stopped paying pension for want of life certificate, but children continued to draw pension.. Many cases are there where children take care of their parents to get their pension.

May be that, to show to the children that only if u take care of ur pension drawing parent and only if he submits life certificate, pension will continue and u can enjoy that, the regulation was made.

vmperumal

[Heramba Dongre]

Sir

 

Submitting life certiicate in once a year is must

as per law what is wrong in submitting the same

when it is called  this forum is by retired bank

hence canara bank is right  in the matter so

also other banks

Dongre    

From: M A Prasad <pras...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012 10:40 AM

Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate

Couple of years back, when I was overseas, Canara Bank stopped my pension (reason being life certificate not submitted).  When I returned to India, I submitted and they credit the entire arrears.  In between once when I forgot to submit the life certificate, Canara Bank again stopeed pension for couple of months and paid once Life certificate was submitted.  Of course, since I knew the regulations for central government pensioners, I assumed our regulation is also on the same lines and did not fight against such stoppage.  I think Canara Bank is stictly enforcing the same even now - other canara bank members can say whether I am right or wrong.

Regards,

On 23 October 2012 22:45, Prasad C N <cn_pr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dear friends,

Some time during last year, we had discussions in respect of Life Certificate.  In view of Judgment of KHC in respect of 5 years and 50% issue, I have following questions regarding Life Certificate :

a. KHC has held that the Pension Regulations are supreme and Banks have no right in altering the terms of payment of pension without enabling provisions in Pension Regulations.  Please provide the provisions under which Banks can insist on providing Life Certificate ;

b. Central and State Government Pension Regulations do provide provision relating to submission of Life Certificate and format for such Life Certificate ;

c. Please provide me the relevant regulations which provide for stopping of Pension, if Life Certificate is not submitted.

d. Please also share with this group the implications of submission of Life Certificate, even if there is no provisions in Pension Regulations.

I HAVE NOT SUBMITTED LIFE CERTIFICATE FOR LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND I WANT THE BANK TO STOP PENSION, SO THAT CORRECT POSITION OF MY RIGHT COULD BE MADE KNOWN.

 

Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

[sureshbhat M]

Dear Friends                                            25/10/2012

     Submission of Life certificate seems to be a prestige issue to many of us!. Whatever may be the interpretation of Law, it is true that pension disbursing Officer is responsible to  ensure the living of the pensioner. As all of us do admit he too is a human being and any care taken by him in the process with out financial burden on others is not worth opposing. IN CASE THERE IS ANY WRONG PAYMENT DUE TO NON CONFIRMATION OF A PENSIONER, DO WE GO TO HIS RESCUE?  As past employees who know the practical seriousness in identification of Pensioners, we must support the concerned officer by voluntarily  submitting Life certificate.  I AM SUBMITTING THE CERTIFICATE ASKING FOR IT (without wait untill they ask for it).

     In my pension drawing branch, there are over  2000 pension a/cs under PPF- Beedi, oldage, civil, military, teachers etc. The officer is shouldered with  many other works like Deposit Sec along with Pension.

   As I interpret Bank Officer is supposed to confirm the living of the pensioner - where it did not say that he is bound to confirm in spite of non co operation by the Pensioner  AND law did not say that, Pensioner need not cooperate for such identification.

  Why should we hide just to make them seek?

   By submitting Life certificate, we are assisting our own past colleague OR a future pensioner of our Bank.

With regards

Suresh Bhat M

 Canara Bank 

SVRS

====================================================================

[Raghavan K]

I  endorse the view.We can use our time energy and resources to fight other issues than  wasting time on trivail issues like this and being egoistic.. K Raghavan,"Deepam",11 Millennium Nagar,Koduvathara Road,Padivattom,PO Edapally,Cochin-682024.Phone 0484 2345367,Mobile 9446801259. --- On Wed, 24/10/12, SIKANDER GULATI <sikander...@gmail.com> wrote:

[C P V Nair]

Really Gulatiji! This is not of much concern to us.

 

 

Warm reg

 

 

CPVNAIR

----- Original Message -----

From: SIKANDER GULATI

To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 2:05 PM

Subject: Fwd: bankpensioner Life Certificate

[Heramba Dongre]

Why this contervercy regarding Life Certificate

As per pension rules it is required hence submit

the same

 

Regards

 

Dongre    

====================================================================

[Ramesh Pandey]

Why so much fuss over Life Cert.  The Pension Paying Authority  (Bank) has to devise some method to ascertain that the Pensioner is still alive so that pension disbursement is continued.  And stopped when he is not alive.  Call it by some other name if the present format and title is found to be hostile or objectionable to some.

CAPT PANDEY

---

From: cpvnai...@gmail.com
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate

Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 10:33:32 +0530

[Narasaiah Ch]

Sirs,

As per my knowledge there was no mentin of life certificate as per pension guidelines.  But it is a practice to submit pensioner every year as on par with central government pension guidelines.  That certificate is only self attestation and confirmed by any Bank official or any Gazetted officer of state government also.  We can get signature of any Bank official signature on life certificate. We can write the certificate format on a white paper also.  Banks are also to know whether pension has to pay or not.

I feel there was no necessity to discuss in this matter. I attach a format which Syndicate Bank pasted with their web. for use of our friends.

With regards,

ch v narasaiah

syndicate bank pensioner

 

---

From: Prasad C N <cn_pr...@yahoo.com>
To: "bankpe...@googlegroups.com" <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012 11:00 PM

[Pankaj Vithlani]

Dear Friends,

The practice of submitting Life Certificate once in a year is also followed in LIC and General Insurance Companies. All pensioners are interested in their pension and not rules of the Pension Regulations. The Bank may stop paying you pension if you do not submit the Life certificate. If you take legal action against the bank, you will have to wait for your pension till the court gives you a decision.So it is your choice whether to submit the Life Certificate or not -- Vithlani


On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 07:44:54 +0530 wrote

> Dear friends,
Some time during last year, we had discussions in respect of Life Certificate. In view of Judgment of KHC in respect of 5 years and 50% issue, I have following questions regarding Life Certificate :
a. KHC has held that the Pension Regulations are supreme and Banks have no right in altering the terms of payment of pension without enabling provisions in Pension Regulations. Please provide the provisions under which Banks can insist on providing Life Certificate ;
b. Central and State Government Pension Regulations do provide provision relating to submission of Life Certificate and format for such Life Certificate ;
c. Please provide me the relevant regulations which provide for stopping of Pension, if Life Certificate is not submitted.
d. Please also share with this group the implications of submission of Life Certificate, even if there is no provisions in Pension Regulations.

I HAVE NOT SUBMITTED LIFE CERTIFICATE FOR LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND I WANT THE BANK TO STOP PENSION, SO THAT CORRECT POSITION OF MY RIGHT COULD BE MADE KNOWN.Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

From: Mosalikanti Venkata Ramana Rao

To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 22 October 2012 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate

Dear Sir,

Please find enclosed Life Certificate - Blank


M V Ramana Rao

Pankaj Vithlani
Mob. 9825673520

[Prasad C N]

My dear friend,

Central Govt Pension Rules provide for submission of Life Certificate because Ex-employer, Pension ordering authority (AG's Office) and Pension paying authority (Banks/Treasury) are all different.  

In Banks, It is the same authority.

Perhaps, many are not understanding the significance of my stand.  I am not too bothered.  

 

Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

---

From: Perumal Velayudhan <vmpe...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012 12:45 PM

[Prasad C N]

Dear Mr.Nair,

I wanted members to look beyond 'Life Certificate' and legal issues involved.  My only worry is that Banks would apply principles of 'Waiver and Estoppels' some time later.  My worry is because of attitude of Banks.  

Banks like State Bank of Mysore or State Bank of Travancore do not have branch/branches in Bihar or have one or two branches in Orissa, no branch outside Kolkota in West Bengal, etc.  We have many pensioners staying in these areas.  I am bothered about them.  

I believe that whether it is a small issue or not, when anybody tries to take away vested right, we need to fight.  We must stop such things.  Having tasted blood, Banks would try in other areas too.

 

Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

---

From: C P V Nair <cpvnai...@gmail.com>
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012 4:06 PM

[C P V Nair]

I fully agree and endorse your views Prasadji!The bank retirees should inculcate the fighting quality.TKU.

[C.RAJAGOPALAN]

Dear Pandey

                              I too agree with you that we need not have to make a mountain out of a mole hill.As u have rightly said that Banks have to ascertain the existence of the customer before disbursing pension.Life certificate is simple and fool proof method of verification. I feel this is a very small matter compared to the enormity of other problems confronting the pensioners community

 

C Rasjagopalan

Syndicate Bank pensioner

[Nageswara Rao P]

Dear Sir,

I totally agree with Mr. Prasad in this respect.  

P N Rao

[Rama Subramanian]

Dear friends,

Re: Life Certificate for pensioners

I am not trying to be smart, but am plainly amused by such lengthy exchange of views on a simple thing.  Sometimes, laws are not needed but prudence / common sense is.  

The philosophy behind bank or for that matter any other pension payment authority asking for a life certificate is that a pensioner is entitled to a specified rate of pension and DA etc. when he is alive and once he leaves his mortal coil, his family is entitled to pension at a lesser rate as per family pension guidelines.

Obviously the pension paying authority cannot be in oblivion about the status of the beneficiary and is entitled by common sense, rather than just statute to ask for a proof of the status.  We should thank the authorities who evolved this system that they ask for it once a year and not every month! If someone does not have a branch of his bank near to his place of residence, he can always discuss the issue with his ex employer and find a solution - like submitting life certificate signed by say branch manager of his present bankers.

Now, let us bury any further discussion on this trivial issue and focus our energies on asking for rightful benefits like pension for left over but genuinely eligible ex employees, periodical updation of pension, uniform guidelines for medical facilities, 100% neutralization (DA) for pre 2002 pensioners etc.

Ramasubramanian

Hyderabad

[seshadri nadhan]

Dear friends you are all unnecessarily wasting your time over life certificate It may  be statutory or not. The same is required to cross check smooth follow up of regulations. Only to verify that pension is received by the concerned pensioner the check is established.In order to ensure the same, ceriticate is issued by the concerned competent authority ie a banker since now a days most of the pensions are paid through only banks and the same is audited bank bank auditors as well as AG's office....  As such everything is required to smooth functioning of the regulations....seshadri

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:48 PM, Prasad C N <cn_pr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[pady nabs]

dear prasadji, your concern is welcomed.  People have to take things in right spirit.  Persons residing in abroad cannot establish their presence at banks instructions.   There ought to be leniency in obtaining life certificate.In the technological era bank should find easy means. padmanabhan.   I welcome your points

--- On Thu, 25/10/12, Prasad C N <cn_pr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Prasad C N <cn_pr...@yahoo.com>

[S.H.S. Mani]

It seems many are wasting their time and energy in Life Certificate and some are prepared to go to Supreme Court level for non submission. Now we can be happy and keep quiet that these people will take care of pension updation, medical aid etc. --- On Fri, 26/10/12, seshadri nadhan <seshadr...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Rajiv Bakshi]

Hi Buddies,
There should not be much fuss about non submittingof LIFE CERTIFICATE to the banks .
The banks should also not be very fastidious in stopping the pension of those who dont submit this document .
in some banks the Life Certificate is to be VERIFIED by some other officer who has ****** SEEN ******* the RETIRED PENSIONER .


On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 19:21:16 +0530 wrote

>It seems many are wasting their time and energy in Life Certificate and some are prepared to go to Supreme Court level for non submission. Now we can be happy and keep quiet that these people will take care of pension updation, medical aid etc.

>

>--- On Fri, 26/10/12, seshadri nadhan wrote:

>

>From: seshadri nadhan
>Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate
>To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
>Date: Friday, 26 October, 2012, 2:42 PM
>
>

Dear friends you are allunnecessarilywasting your time over life certificate It may be statutory or not. The same is required to cross check smooth follow up of regulations. Only to verify that pension is received by the concerned pensioner the check is established.In order to ensure the same, ceriticate is issued by the concerned competent authority ie a banker since nowa daysmost of the pensions are paid through only banks and the same is audited bank bank auditors as well as AG's office.... As such everything is required to smooth functioning of the regulations....seshadri

>
>
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 11:48 PM, Prasad C N wrote:
>



Dear Mr.Nair,

>
I wanted members to look beyond 'Life Certificate' and legal issues involved. My only worry is that Banks would apply principles of 'Waiver and Estoppels' some time later. My worry is because of attitude of Banks.

>
Banks like State Bank of Mysore or State Bank of Travancore do not have branch/branches in Bihar or have one or two branches in Orissa, no branch outside Kolkota in West Bengal, etc. We have many pensioners staying in these areas. I am bothered about them.

>
I believe that whether it is a small issue or not, when anybody tries to take away vested right, we need to fight. We must stop such things. Having tasted blood, Banks would try in other areas too.

>

>
Thanks, a Million.
>
>

With regards,
>Prasad C N
>

From: C P V Nair
>To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012 4:06 PM

>Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate
>
>

The issues raised by Shri CNP are pertinent.Though thereMAY not be any legal support, the central/state govt/LIC JeevanSuraksha policy pension holders are compelled to furnish life/existence certificates periodically.

The nature ofpension is altered as soon as the death of the pensioner is notified.Normally, this is to be done by the survivors of the pensioner.In the past, there have been reports of bank branches disbursing pensions even after death of the pensioner.I have come across disciplinary cases on branch managers/accountants for failing for stoppage of pension disbursements at the appropriate time.Unfortunately, such officials are made responsible.

As far as I know, a few banks are not so strict about obtentions of life certificates in r/o its retirees. Really speaking, I am astonished to read the position in Canara Bank when Shri CNP discloses that he has not yet furnished the certificate so far.The central govt pensioners are well organised than bank pensioners.So there could not be any 'taken for granted' rules with regard to life cerificate, stoppage of pension etc.

We are in a time when the ac holders need not visit the branches personally to withdraw monies fromthe Acs.The branches/pension disbursing offices should have some mechanism to find out whether the pensioner is live or not.Also, in many bank branches, there is a practice of taking the life certificate of civil/defence pensioners at their residence placesin cases where theyare ill and are incapacitated to visit the branches personally.

This is what I have perceived in respect of the Life certificates.Let us interact further to know what are the legal implications of not submitting the certificates .


Warm reg



CPVNAIR


----- Original Message -----
From: Prasad C N
To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate

>



Dear friends,

>
Some time during last year, we had discussions in respect of Life Certificate. In view of Judgment of KHC in respect of 5 years and 50% issue, I have following questions regarding Life Certificate :

>
a. KHC has held that the Pension Regulations are supreme and Banks have no right in altering the terms of payment of pension without enabling provisions in Pension Regulations. Please provide the provisions under which Banks can insist on providing Life Certificate ;

>
b. Central and State Government Pension Regulations do provide provision relating to submission of Life Certificate and format for such Life Certificate ;

>
c. Please provide me the relevant regulations which provide for stopping of Pension, if Life Certificate is not submitted.

>
d. Please also share with this group the implications of submission of Life Certificate, even if there is no provisions in Pension Regulations.

>
I HAVE NOT SUBMITTED LIFE CERTIFICATE FOR LAST SEVERAL YEARS AND I WANT THE BANK TO STOP PENSION, SO THAT CORRECT POSITION OF MY RIGHT COULD BE MADE KNOWN.


Thanks, a Million.
>
>
With regards,
>Prasad C N
>

From: Mosalikanti Venkata Ramana Rao
>To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Monday, 22 October 2012 12:30 PM
>Subject: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>Please find enclosed Life Certificate - Blank
>
>
>M V Ramana Rao
>

Rajiv Bakshi

[Arun Shukla]

hi   all

some  foolish  arguments  fwdd  reg  life  certificate

they  forgot  that  while  on  job...they  had  to  sign musters  everyday

what  wrong if  bank  verifies  ur  existence  once  a  year

THANKS   AND  REGARDS
ARUN  SHUKLA
E-mail    avsh...@gmail.com   ,  avsh...@yahoo.com  

[perumal maruthu]

Dear Mr.Arun Shukla,

In a democratic country everyone has the RIGHT of freedom of speech/expression.

What Shri. CN Prasad questioned is that whether Banks are legally correct in the absence of relevant provisons in Pension Regulations to enable them to enforce Life Certificate executed by the Pensioners every year. His intention is not to put any Official into trouble for non-obtaining of LC.

Why does Shri CNP question the submission of LC?

The answer lies in the dismissal of the case of Mr.PradeepKumar in SC for 100%DA/Updation.

Mr.PradeepKumar had executed an undertaking in the usual printed format(which most of us don;t take cognizance) while getting his arrears in 2003 which included the words" I shall not seek any revision of the amount of pension payable to me".

This routine clause played havoc resulting in the dismissal of his case at SC.

I hope, you will now understand the good intention of Shri CNP and withdraw your wounding words.

Pl note he is not forcing anyone to accept his view. He has only given his view in the context of Pension Regulations Versus Banks' unilateral actions.

It is upto the individual to accept or reject it.

M.Perumal

 

ARUN  SHUKLA
E-mail    avsh...@gmail.com   ,  avsh...@yahoo.com   -- Visit our blog site http:://bankpensioner.blogspot.com--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "bankpensioner" group.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bankpensioner?hl=en-GB.  

[omprakash agrawal]

FOR LIVE CERTIFICATE Pl.OPEN SIGHT CANARABANK PENSIONER-LIVE CERTIFICATE THIS IS GENERAL FORMATE FOR ALL PENSIONERS

[seshadri nadhan]

it is true . to check whether regulations are properly followed, there should be some method to safe vouch the same. all the certificates connected with payment of pension are for this purpose only............seshadri

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 6:41 PM, Arun Shukla <avsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Prasad C N]

Dear friends,

I regret to note that our friends have failed to understand the reason for posting my opinion with regard to Life Certificate.  I have seen some of them calling it foolish or some of them calling trivial issue, etc.  Unfortunately, my beloved friends did not understand the import of such an act, despite explaining implications. 

Fortunately, in our case regarding 50% pay and 5 years issue, KHC has awarded Rs.10,000/- cost to each of us, because our advocate raised very ground which I have raised.

Every body is free to decide what they want to do.  Since, I have proved existence of life in me several ways, I do not want to go and sign stating that I am alive.

Some of my friends are also signing a portion wherein signatory also declares that he/she is also not in employment, even if he is not required (not required for retired award staff from the day one and not required for retired officers from third year of retirement) to sign the declaration, without understanding the implication.  

My only worry is cunning management may use this as a tool to beat us at a later date.

I have neither compelled anybody not to give Life Certificate nor supported submission.  I wanted to hear your perception about implication of non-submission.  I feel sad that some of us fear stopping of Pension in the event of non-submission.  Now, even for Central Government Pensioner, a notice by registered post is sent and time is given for submission of Life Certificate.  Can our Management, for which we have served for decades stop payment of pension, even if we are not required to give.

Some talk about our Colleagues, who are working now and their interest.  Last week one of my fellow member who has been denied another option for pension approached a branch where she is maintaining accounts plus deposits in Bangalore was asked to go to Delhi Branch from where she retired to collect sweet pocket of Rs.300/-.  Please let me know how many of our colleagues who continue to work accommodate us, if we do not sign Life Certificate, even if they have met us on the previous day.

They would like to go by book.  But we are magnanimous.  

Please remember to value your rights.  It may be insignificant.  But, do not sacrifice your self earned right.

Decision is yours.

 

Thanks, a Million.

With regards,
Prasad C N

[R Balaji]

Dear Sir
Actually life certificate is certified by the Manager of the branch where the pension is disbursed and not declaration by the pensioner.
It is the duty of the Manager to certify to HO that the pensioner is alive to his knowledge as on a particular date.
We need not worry about the same.
Mr Prasad is right in his views and there is absolutely no dispute is warranted against his views
Balaji

[Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran]

Just to keep the heat out of the discussion. In one branch the life certificate of a pensioner was obtained on 01st Dec., and the Inspecting Officer commented like this: The branch should have obtained the life certificate on Ist November, instead obtained it on Ist Dec.. Branch to confirm that the pensioner was alive on 1st November!

G.Ramachandran
CB SVRS 

[C P V Nair]

Grand GRji! The bankers/retirees recognize/appreciate jokes indeed!

 

 

Warm reg

 

 

 

CPVNAIR

----- Original Message -----

From: Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran

To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 2:01 PM

Subject: Re: Re: bankpensioner Life Certificate

[sureshbhat M]

GRji 

    You relieved some tension during  the busy reading. Hats off !!!. That Inspecting Officer need to be honoured by  IBA as he tried to delete one pensioner from list

With regards

Suresh Bhat 

=================================

[Anantharaman Tg]

Dear All,

Such officers will be promoted for their "sincere" comments and work! Blessed are the Banks with such grat

people.

--Anantharaman

[Sundar Veluthedan]

Dear Mr. Ramachandran

It was nice reading your mail. Does CB in the CB SVRS below your name refers to 'Canara Bank' ? If you have mailed this only in lighter vein as you wrote "to keep the heat out of the discussion", I have a true story on this. I also worked in Canara Bank from 1978 to 2001. In a branch (in Kerala) where I worked there was an Indian Airforce Pensioner. He opted for voluntary retirement after a minimum service of 15 years and left for the Gulf for employment. His pension account was with our branch. He had two accounts, one SB NRI and one ordinary account for crediting the pension. It so happened that he did not visit India for two years. When he came to India after the lapse of two years, he promptly came to the bank and gave the life certificate for the current year. For the previous year he had not given as he was away in the Gulf. But 'as usual' his pension was credited without any break. During the inspection (you know our inspecting officers zest and enthusiasm as at that time it was Grade I officers who used to do the inspection.) He put a note stating that the branch had not obtained the Life certificate for the previous year. So the branch may ask the customer to give one for the previous year also. When the branch (you may also know that our branch managers never have the guts to ascertain any facts but they would simply follow what the inspecting officers note) official contacted the customer and asked to submit the life cert. for the previous year he asked "Sir, I have already given a certificate for the current year. Do you want me to give a certificate stating that I was alive last year also?". It is another matter that the branch manager managed to get the life certificate for the previous year also to please the inspecting officer so that he would struck off the query before submitting the final inspecting report. I am not mentioning this just as a fun. It happened and it was some 30 years ago. But I still remember the customer's name as one Mr. Khalid and the branch was Trikovilvattam in Quilon (now Kollam) District.

Enjoy

With regards

N. Sundar

[Sundar Veluthedan]

Dear Mr. Ramachandran

It was nice reading your mail. Does CB in the CB SVRS below your name refers to 'Canara Bank' ? If you have mailed this only in lighter vein as you wrote "to keep the heat out of the discussion", I have a true story on this. I also worked in Canara Bank from 1978 to 2001. In a branch (in Kerala) where I worked there was an Indian Airforce Pensioner. He opted for voluntary retirement after a minimum service of 15 years and left for the Gulf for employment. His pension account was with our branch. He had two accounts, one SB NRI and one ordinary account for crediting the pension. It so happened that he did not visit India for two years. When he came to India after the lapse of two years, he promptly came to the bank and gave the life certificate for the current year. For the previous year he had not given as he was away in the Gulf. But 'as usual' his pension was credited without any break. During the inspection (you know our inspecting officers zest and enthusiasm as at that time it was Grade I officers who used to do the inspection.) He put a note stating that the branch had not obtained the Life certificate for the previous year. So the branch may ask the customer to give one for the previous year also. When the branch (you may also know that our branch managers never have the guts to ascertain any facts but they would simply follow what the inspecting officers note) official contacted the customer and asked to submit the life cert. for the previous year he asked "Sir, I have already given a certificate for the current year. Do you want me to give a certificate stating that I was alive last year also?". It is another matter that the branch manager managed to get the life certificate for the previous year also to please the inspecting officer so that he would struck off the query before submitting the final inspecting report. I am not mentioning this just as a fun. It happened and it was some 30 years ago. But I still remember the customer's name as one Mr. Khalid and the branch was Trikovilvattam in Quilon (now Kollam) District.

Enjoy

With regards

N. Sundar

On 31 October 2012 14:01, Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran <chandra...@gmail.com> wrote:

[C P V Nair]

Quite nice stories.Sundarji takes our memories back to later 70s/early 80s when we had so many similar occasions  for sweet remembrance.We had such 'tit for tat' customers .

 

Looking back, I venture to state Sundarji, that our bank life was quite eventful, funny with strong interactions among ourselves, and with the customers.Actually, there were good relations between the staff and the customers , with both the ends keeping their minds open.But alas, everything now got confined to ATM cabins, online trns etc etc.I feel that the society itself lost the capacity/preparedness to interact or introspect.We feel amazed and pained to note that this is a part of growth and the development.

 

TKU Sundarji, for bringing out the incident in a lighter vein.

 

 

 

Warm reg

 

 

CPVNAIR

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Sundar Veluthedan

To: bankpe...@googlegroups.com

[C P V Nair]

That's the point, Prasadji!We have to remember our rights and FIGHT for them.None else would do it for us.

[S.H.S. Mani]

Sir, That is why in Banking definition, it is said banker need not have talent, but should require common sense. Now a days banker need not have common sense, but should require only computor sense. In one of Canara Bank branch, where I went recently to Manager and enquired him charges for RGTRS (not it is at par), he very well knows my Finance Co. where I am working and he verified the computor and informed the charges. Then I filled in the blank cheque leaf of my company and gave it to him favouring Yourself RTGS for a higher amount. After presenting the cheque he said my branch does not have the facility of RTGS and I asked him you might have said the same while informing the charges. He kept mum. I asked him to issue DD and said I am prepared to pay commission, he said it is not possible because in favouring side it is written RTGS. No other cheque leaf is available and it has to come from Head Office by courier. So my remittance to HO was delayed unnecessarily for a week and the branch also looses DD commission. That is why it is said Common Sense. It is not to hurt anybody, but after submitting life certificate for present year,asking for previous year is only foolish.  --- On Wed, 31/10/12, Sundar Veluthedan <sundarve...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Anantharaman Tg]

Dear Mr.Sundar Veluthedan,

Even if the Branch Manager sees the reason and does not insist for the same, he will be questioned by the superior

for rectification in the action taken report. The go by the book and the subordiinate is to comply! 

Let me also share the experience of my father (now 90) two years ago. Due to severe arthritis and related troubles

his movements are restricted. He draws money from the Branch near his place, though the pension disbursing branch (of the same Bank) is some kilometers away. But when the LC was tendered at the nearest Branch with request to forward to the pension paying Br., the Manager seems to have taken no interest and denied. But when the pensioner asked him what prevents him from doing it, when he passes cheques for the withdrawal every month

he  had no answer, and he refused to accept the LC and forward it. There may be instances of such types whne the

officials fail to understand the problem of pensioners who are old and not so healthy,

Anantharaman 

[seshadri nadhan]

the inspecting officer who has not applied logic should be sent to a mental hospital first...seshadri

[Parthasarathy Sridharan]

Dear Mr. Sundar and Mr.Ramachandran,

On reading your mails regarding the incidents happened relating to submission of Life Certificate, I would like to share a similar incident happened somewhere in 1973, while I was working as a clerk, in our bank. There was a letter, informing the death of a pensioner by his son . The concerned official recorded in the ledger folio : "caution: Party reported to have dead as per his letter dated..." Contact Manager/Accountant for furthur details and necessary action".  I don't know to what height that officer went on before retirement.  

Sridharan (IB VRS 1999),

[Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran]

Yes Mr.Sundar. I retired on SVRS from Canara Bank and I have a number of such stories/incidents which happened in our own bank. Thanks to all those who enjoyed the anecdote.

G.Ramachandran
CB SVRS

[Sundar Veluthedan]

Dear Parthasarathy Sir

 

Thanks for your response. I fear our moderator may not publish this type of incidents when they increase in number for reasons obvious. But I still would like to have a similar platform (may be a parallel one) through which we can share these types of anecdotes so that amidst our tension filled days we can also relax a little bit by reading these postings.

 

yours comradely

 

N. Sundar