An idea on Apathy in classrooms and bottom up interventions and some comments!

[Dharav Solanki]

Hello!

First the comments:

I have been only passively involved in the group as of now, but it is very exciting to be a group that is so interested in learning. It is stimulating. A sincere praise for everyone is due.

The idea is as such:

In a very exciting conversation, we were discussing about apathy amongst us students. There is obviously some involvement of peer effects here. So, in a scenario where students are not taking any interest in their work, they are increasing the apathy. Over extended periods of time, this apathy might reach a point of no return. Subsequently, all the investment done in the students is wasted and the stakeholders lose out on the potential benefits they could bring.

The objective here is to build models that take into consideration factors which can be altered so that we using the model, we can appropriately intervene before apathy prevails.

For example, a simple model could take into account general routines of students, the kind of exercises that stimulate them, the prep work they do before a class, during the class, after the class and the amount of procrastination that they do, incentives that they have for completing their coursework and also whether or not the challenges are apt for learning or whether they induce anxiety, peer effects.

There are a lot of parameters here, but we can have a lot of different models that take in more coherent parameters together.

With these models, we can advocate certain interventions at academic institutions. For example, if we could relate procrastination to highly demanding coursework and find the percentage of students who are susceptible to procrastinating because of this, appropriate modifications can be prescribed. In situations where you have no basis of judging, one might simply end up cursing "apathy" on the part of students, or groping in the dark.

Another intervention could be regarding peer effects. If one model shows that a number of students with a certain behavior can provide immunity against "apathy", and another model shows the actionables with which we can have more impact on certain students, we end up correlating concrete actions to more intangible collective mindset.

I believe using models to find out such bottom up actions can be the best way to move ahead with the problem of mediocrity in classrooms in India.

I'd be personally very interested in working on such models and see where they lead us. I sincerely hope that models can be useful for a much needed change and that they bring clarity to those who wish they could change the state of the matter but are rendered powerless due to the chaos.


(Note: I am aware that there was a lot of brainstorming on education related models and also that now we are moving towards concrete work. However, I am posting this idea regardless, because it had been around in my mind since quiet a time and i just had a very stimulating conversation with a few friends regarding it.)

[Sowmyan Tirumurti]

@Dharav,

I appreciate your point that peer effect promoting apathy may spread in classrooms. You have also brought up procrastination and apathy. There seemed to eb a suggestion that seeding with some 'desirable behavior oriented students' can help create a peer pressure against apathy.  

I am sharing some top of the mind, spur of the moment thoughts. Procrastination is a habit, and forms in early childhood. Instead of asking very young kids to do home work, if exercises are done in the class itself, it should help. I for one feel homework should be totally absent in elementary school (up to 5th standard). 

Apathy begets apathy. Let us say a test is conducted. Some students fail to understand a concept. This must be evident from the responses to certain questions from most students. If the teacher identifies this and clarifies this adequately in a subsequent class, apathy will not build. If he simply goes forward blaming the students, apathy will set in quickly. 

Personally I was very good in maths in my school days. During college days I got a Calculus teacher who was too fast to follow. He had enormous portions to cover. He could not wait for slower followers to catch up. I got 50 out of 50 in geometry, and analytical geometry, and zero out of 50 in calculus in my first exam. I never recovered from this disaster for 4 years. It took me one year to catch up with previous years's maths, and I always lagged. Calculus being what it is we could not ignore it. By hind sight I felt in the initial days of conceptually understanding calculus, had this gentleman been slow, and cared enough to bring people like me to speed, it would have been great. 

Some how feedback collection, identifying gaps and imparting corrective input, as in a feedback control system had been left to individual teachers and was not part of the institute's culture, or procedures. There was perhaps no infrastrucure / mechanism for the faculty also to do it within the available time. When I look at school syllabus, I believe it has been loaded heavily. 

Peer effects is one thing and standing ovation is another. Peer effect may not be externally triggered, but standing ovation may be triggered. This is what I expect. 

To counter apathy, some thing like triggering appreciation through a peer effect model may not be feasible. I don't think peer effect is always based on fundamental transformation of mind. Some times it may be politeness, to conform to group behaviour. The standing ovation is much more of a artificial outcome. Many are triggered against their basic assessment due to this effect. 

 The peer effect may not convert the entire class. I guess there may be two opposing peer effect phenomena taking place simultaneously. One with greater diligence and another with greater apathy. The class may be somewhat polarized this way. It may be a sorting effect. 

Keep the ideas coming. 

Regards,

Sowmyan

--
T Sowmyan
+91 80 25242236
http://sites.google.com/site/tsowmyan

[Dharav Solanki]

Hello!

I have to say I am a little surprised with a long elaborate reply.
It's a pat on the back in one way.

I guess at this point of time, I have to clarify what I intended to do.

(1) Manipulating peer effects to produce desired outcomes was not the
objective. The objective was to treat the negative peer effects as
contagious diseases and have timely interventions at appropriate
nodes. Putting it another way, the intention here is to model the
spread of apathy and trace it back to it's sources so that we have
good information upon which action can be taken.

(2) Measuring procrastination is a way to measure the negative peer
effects. Procrastination has got direct relation with our interests,
our kneejerk reactions to taking up a challenge (if it is too
difficult, we wouldn't attempt it - or push it back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Challenge_vs_skill.svg)

(3) Bottom up interventions are a sure shot way to target improvements
in classrooms. For example, you can not change the syllabus/challenge
levels/incentives and expect such top down changes to trickle down
into new habits formed or new things learned. So, in the era of
computers, bottom up interventions can be carried out with much ease.
(3.1) How do models help here? Models might help here in identifying
the students who would most readily learn new things. Perhaps the
absence of certain negative habits, or presence of positive attitudes
can help us judge who would pick things up easily, and then insist
within limits of modesty (this might be done by student bodies, like
perhaps a Guidance and Counseling Unit) that they finish up these
courses. We cannot expect such one-off sessions to spiral upward, but
atleast we are not letting students spiral downwards.

[Dharav Solanki]

I have to state here, separately, that mentioning one use of a model
does not mean that the sole purpose of the model is that objective

Consider the following:
(1) We have certain observations of the student life, including
habits, learning abilities, and the spread of apathy.
(2) We know that crystallizing these in models would be much more
beneficial, because it is merely a way to get our knowledge being
expressed more clearly. It does not introduce artificial/crude
elements. It mentions inaccuracy whenever it cannot explain/predict
something.
(3) One probable use of the model could be to search for
interventions. That, however, does not mean that our sole purpose is
to seek out interventions. The purpose is to crystallize our
knowledge/observations into models. Once that is done, we can always
think of ways in which that model can be used. However, seeking out
possible interventions is not a way to go.

My suggestion is that we discuss these effects on the Wiki and begin,
after deliberation, the modeling of these systems.

[Sowmyan Tirumurti]

good point. 

[Dharav Solanki]

(1) One parameter that could be used in such a model, perhaps one for procrastination/apathy could be the number of concepts that the student has shown proficiency in. It is noteworthy that students generally would be largely unaware of certain concepts/facts, let alone be proficient in them - since most work is deadline driven, the reading is done only during the final days. This would require then a continuous monitoring system - and surprisingly, this is feasible for online learning systems.
(2) Since in present day scenario, most institutions do not have an online learning component, such a good monitoring might not be possible. Perhaps an approximation here is due.

I have a question though: the initial brainstorming is fine, but how do we go about making a solid model out of these thoughts? Where do we start and would the group participate?

[Dharav Solanki]

I went through one of the previous threads, and the notion of education evolving to cater to the 21st century was very much visible. It's good to know that it's a much prevalent notion and that we hope we could shape, in whatever minor ways, the course of how education happens.

In that regard, I think that one of the lesser important parameter that i mentioned - involving a continuous index of what central/core concepts the student knows confirms to a model that might be required a few years down the line, rather than one that is required immediately.

In that regard, I am a little excited about it.

However, I have to ask the group to revisit the above few posts and see if they have any inputs to provide. I'll collate the inputs and make them more presentable so that we can move towards developing a model.

[Rajesh Kasturirangan]

Since this is a cyclical process, the actual model will take some time to emerge, but Dharav, I suggest that you start the collation right away on the wiki and then invite others to add inputs. 

Rajesh

--
Rajesh Kasturirangan
www.regularities.org

www.rajeshkasturirangan.com

[Dharav Solanki]

Definitely. I have already requested a registration.

Will keep adding the content on the wiki.

Thanks.

[Dharav Solanki]

Hello!

I have updated this series of emails on the wiki at http://modelthinkingbangalore.pbworks.com/w/page/51554131/Classrooms%3A%20Apathy%20and%20procrastination.

Please check it out.

Current status: searching for parameters!

[Dharav Solanki]

Some suggestions:

1) Number of times the professor asks a question and there is silence in the classroom.
2) Probability of silence, given a certain distribution of students, given that some of them have a grip over the concepts that have been taught.

[janinthesky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSey4WALf8I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWz08mVUIt8

These may be useful to the discussion on classroom particpation.