Bike to Work - need help answer safety concerns of our HR Head

[vinay shankara]

I have initiated a discussion with our HR Head asking for better facilities for cyclists, better encouragement/promotion from the leadership and change in policies in favor of Cyclists. Surprisingly, i received a response from her within few minutes. She is very much impressed with the stuff (Bike to work case study)  that i shared with her. She even agreed that all the proposals and requests that i had mentioned can be easily done. But, we are stuck with one thing now. That is "how safe cycling is?"

I tried convincing her. But as a HR Head she is hesitant on encouraging something that is prone to risk and not safe. See her response as well below. 

I need suggestions on how we can convince her. She is asking for ideas to make cycling safe. I'm thinking of proposing mandating helmet and also conducting safety awareness campaigns. what else we can do?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First response from HR Head - 

You cycle an hour to work? Wow

I like the stuff you have written and am sure most can be done easily.

However how safe is it for you to cycle to work. The last thing I want is to encourage a practice which would result in more accidents of our employees. 

-----------------------------------------

My response to her 

Regarding the road safety, short answer – Yes, it’s safe.

 Here is the long answer  J -

 I have been cycling for about an year now with zero incidents. There are many people who are cycling for over a year now with no Incidents. Let me put this question to you – how many major accidents have you read in newspaper or heard that involved a cyclist? People think not many people cycle and that’s the reason there are less accidents. This is not correct.

Let me give you an idea of what is happening within the cycling community

-          -  A lot of passionate cyclists have been cycling to work these days in many Indian cities. People are realizing that bike to work is the future and it takes much less time compared to any other mode of transport in metro cities.

-          -  People are calling Bangalore as the Bi-cycle capital of India.

-           -  There are a lot of cycling groups that have got formed. Go Green Go cycling, ICycle, IISC randonneurs etc are some popular groups in Bangalore.

-           -  Government is realizing the need to encourage cycling. Thanks to Ride a cycle foundation (RACF) and government, we have dedicated cycle lanes in Jayanagar, Bangalore.

-          -  People regularly do weekend long rides or off road rides. You go to Nandi hills or Kanakpura road, you are guaranteed to see atleast 10+ cyclists on a weekend.

-          - People are taking part in bi-cycle championships.

-          - Brevet rides which is an internationally acclaimed event happens in many Indian cities. As part of Brevets people do long rides like 400, 600 ,1000 and even 1200 Kms continuously on highways.

Inspite of all this, I personally have not heard of any major incidents.

The only thing that makes cycle different from a motor bike is the motor itself. J People have a perception that cycles are slow moving vehicles and hence prone to accidents. This is completely wrong. Many people have proven that cycle is the fastest mode of transportation within the cities. People have even proven by doing 1000+ kms  on highways that cycling on highways are also safe. If the rider is cautious , follows the lane discipline, makes himself visible with front and rear lights and doesn’t perform any stunts on the road, then he is very much safe no matter whether it’s a highway or city road. Even the motorist who doesn’t follow the aforementioned things will be prone to accidents.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is her second response

As I said earlier, getting this done is not a difficult exercise. I want ideas on how we can make this safe. We run buses today for employees not just for their convenience, but because else they would use the option of motorbikes which can create more accidental deaths. As HR head,  I see the data on how many of our employees lose lives or limbs because of such accidents. So I am concerned about what this would mean? How can we take more responsibility for making this safe? 

[Sreepathi Pai]

I've been collecting data on injuries on the brevets, and in the
51000+km last year, we had 3 accidents, all of them falls from the
bicycles (i.e. not an accident with another vehicle).

In my opinion, to make cycling /safer/ is beyond the ability of a
single company, it requires a concerted effort from cyclists, other
vehicle owners, authorities, etc.

When can we say if cycling is considered safe enough? When you see
kids, more women and elderly using the bicycle without thinking too
much about it.

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--
Sreepathi Pai

[Pradeep Naidu]

Vinay,
Psl tell her its the most safest means to commute. i am commuting to work from past 10 months, everyday i do 52 kms round trip and only takes 1.05 to 10 hrs one way. i have done some 10,000 kms only commuting..And its safe ...

Pradeep Naidu S

[Anand Devanathan]

Guys,

I dont think the dispute is regarding the safety itself. Well, maybe statistics will definitely help the case.

But I think the HR head wants to have certain guidelines to ensure safety as much as possible from their side.

So along with whatever statistics one can garner, its more about what baselines can be enforced. For eg, wearing helmet is a law-related necessity for motor-bikers, but is not for cyclists. So maybe the company wants to enforce it.

Its about his/her accountability. No company wants to be in the news for the wrong reasons. While it may be illogical - that they dont stress as much for motorbikers, this is something different and out of norm. So this hesitation.

One thing I can think of is to take examples of companies in Mysore etc that give incentives for cyclists. Maybe one can write to their HR heads to see what groundwork they did.

Regards,

Anand.

[Darshan Bildikar]

Vinay, you're a lucky man. Doing this at my company has been like banging my head on a wall. Why not start with baby steps? Have your company create the infrastructure but not actively "recommend" it. Once the cycling community becomes stronger, and HR sees that it creates more benefits than problems, they'll only be too happy to help!

Darshan

[anilk...@gmail.com]

"When can we say if cycling is considered safe enough? When you see
kids, more women and elderly using the bicycle without thinking too
much about it".

Kids-(chidu's children- vaibhav and vedant) (GoGreen Rao with daughter)
Women-(deepa mohan and Manjula sridhar, Divya tate, Meera {doing brevets and the like})
Elder- Janardhan sir (81 years)

Traffic, night, age everything is addressed in the above example.


Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

[Darshan Bildikar]

The problem is that cycling is "perceived" to be unsafe when IMO, it's one of the safest modes of transport because you really don't move that fast. It's impossible to change people's views on this. They change only if they become cyclists themselves. My wife still throws a tantrum when I get home after dark. And I've been cycling for the past 1.5 years.

Darshan

[Jagannath Moorthy]

Sorry to say but this looks like a classic case of "I'm not really interested, let me come up with something that will get rid of this guy" kind of response.

She's running a company not a nursery school, her employees are adults who can think for themselves whether cycling is safe or not.

--

[Vasu]

+1 to Jagan

 

Must applaud that she has been quite smart to send such a diplomatic reply. Once people get out of office premises what they do, how they commute etc is not really her/or any HR/or any company;'s concern. If it is, then you are in the wrong place!

 

All she/or any HR/or any company can do is to enforce a few rules *inside* the premises. For e.g. in many companies the security guard will not allow a motorbiker inside if he/she is not wearing a helmet. Also, they won't allow a pillion rider to enter the premises if he/she is not wearing helmet. However, once you cross the security checkpoint you are free to do whatever you feel like. There have been times when I have ridden pillion and I have borrowed a helmet just to get past this point. I have even left the helmet with the security guard till my return.

[Sharath]

Pradeep,

I really don't get this "cycling is the safest mode of commute" thing. At times, I'd think commuting by bike is overrated. I'm commuting by bike for over 3 years now and I still think cars are safer (but not faster) than a bicycle, atleast in our cities. The pollution is killing (probably much worse than if one takes to smoking). Masks only help so much. And, it doesn't matter if you are riding slow, cars are sometimes much faster (I'm not talking about your entire commute distance where bikes are faster overall, I'm talking about that free 300metre stretch before the next signal where cars can pick up speeds). All it takes is one drunk driver to not notice you on the road. Cycling has its risks (as risky as riding a motorcycle perhaps), but to say that it is the "safest", is something that I cannot come to terms with. I'd consider it safe when I see women carrying their babies on a bicycle here in Bangalore -- that day is not here yet, unfortunately. Worse, that day may never come.

Having said that, I have my reasons to continue commuting by bike -- saves time, is a lot of fun, daily workout, etc -- we all know the reasons. It does get irritating at times due to the traffic, but heck, cars (and buses) are super boring, but they are safer than bikes at the moment, IMO.

Regards,
Sharath

[Pradeep Naidu]

Or Working from home is lot more safer.....

[VaB]

Hi Vinay,

Ideally you should have also shown her the other side of the benefits from HR's perspective.
Cyclists will generally be more punctual, healthier ~ fit means less health related problems hence less sick leaves and premature deaths due to health problems.
Tell her more than the accidental deaths hearth attacks are killing people. Its proven than fit people perform BETTER @Work as well as promoting cycling means better networking within employees and bonding. It will also allows laterals ties across the organization. Overall this also promotes towards green initiatives to reduce CO or Carbon footprint of the organization which few organizations are doing by showing the CO footprint when they travel via Air or rail etc.

Organizations promoting Car pool are an easy prey for the above. Along with this they can promote by providing a soft loan or co-sharing the cycle costs for the employees similar to Car loans and perks (like cycle maintenance allowance) :) 

I really hope my organization thinks forward in this direction... :(

Regards,
Varun
KHS Alite / Btwin Riverside

[KarthikN]

well. safety matters for a hr head because of novelty.empathy.bad pr and insurance costs if incidents happen.
however experienced riders are , a dummy from a volvo out there is always scary. yes there are workarounds but dont want to fly on a tangent now.
but surely vinay should showcase some mature riding their commute group might have been doing,on how they make it safe for newbies etc.
carbon credit , good pr , lowered import bill is a lot of rhetoric and faff

[Aditya Yadav]

I have attached the comparison of a commute  from my Office (Bagmane Tech Park) to Home (Mekri Circle). My dad drove the car and I was on the bike.

Safety- Keep your eyes on the road and try not to doze off on the way to work.

--
Aditya

[Karthick Gururaj]

Hi Vinay,

First off - a great initiative :)

I don't know if other responses to your question are in lines of what you were looking for.... 

To quote her directly, from your email:

"..how safe is it for you to cycle to work. The last thing I want is to encourage a practice which would result in more accidents of our employees.."
and

"I want ideas on how we can make this safe. We run buses today for employees not just for their convenience, but because else they would use the option of motorbikes which can create more accidental deaths. As HR head,  I see the data on how many of our employees lose lives or limbs because of such accidents. So I am concerned about what this would mean? How can we take more responsibility for making this safe?"

So basically two questions:

a. What is *your* personal experience, in cycling to work?

b. What can be do to make it safe(r)?

From where she is coming from, it is a very justified question. Her head will be on the block if the news papers flash "Cyclist from XYZ company loses his/her limbs after a fall in front of a bus. It was only 3 months back the company introduced initiatives for employees to start cycling to work". Bad press is worst case scenario (for the HR head, not the cyclist who had the accident).. but could be even as trivial as managers complaining that their employees have started to fall sick more often due to increased exposure to pollution. *You* may know that is not going to happen, she doesn't.

IMHO, all you need to do is:

a. Describe your personal experience so far. Don't trivialize her perception, also describe the inherent risks involved.

b. Tell her how the inherent risks can be minimized. Helmet plus lights plus hand signs plus following traffic rules must cover most of it. Pollution masks recommended based on traffic density. Make a poster and put it near the cycle stand.

c. Ask her what is the information she is looking for, to be convinced. I don't think there are any relevant statistics to answer her question - I mean, the number of accidents during brevet do not indicate anything about city incidents. Even knowing the raw number of accidents involving a cyclist per day in BLR doesn't mean much, until we know it as a percentage. If I were you, I wouldn't talk stats. So let her tell what she is looking for.

d. Finally, in this case, her responsibility is limited to making life of cyclists easier. It might be as simple as a shower facility or a cycle stand. Can you imagine a press running a story like: "Cyclist from XYZ company loses his/her limbs after a fall in front of a bus. It was only 3 months back shower rooms were installed in the facility"? I guess not. So as long as the company doesn't directly "incentivize" cyclists (like paying them for every km they cycle) and is not planning to use this as a marketing/branding opportunity, there is no need to worry.

Might want to do this face-to-face instead of an email.

Warm regards,
Karthick

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, vinay shankara <vini...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Sandeep]

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, vinay shankara <vini...@gmail.com> wrote:

I tried convincing her. But as a HR Head she is hesitant on encouraging something that is prone to risk and not safe. See her response as well below. 

I need suggestions on how we can convince her. She is asking for ideas to make cycling safe. I'm thinking of proposing mandating helmet and also conducting safety awareness campaigns. what else we can do?

This may not be possible to prove since we do not have any city wide statistics and any amount of personal accounts vouching for the safety of bicycling may not convince someone hesitant on encouraging cycling.

It may be easier to ask about giving an equal choice to employees instead of favoring one mode of personal transport over another. In our company, bike racks were installed and an email was sent indicating the same, there was nothing asking employees to cycle to work(aside: now the bike racks are full and people are asking for more bike racks).

The other data point you could use is to mention LEED which requires bicycle parking and shower facilities.

[M I T R]

Well said Sharath...bike riding is very very risky business in any of our cities compared to bus/car and many more times risker than a motorbike.....a few 1000s of people like us still ride because we love it...

 

Vinay..great initiative and success thus far...IMO as advised by a few people...it would be achievement enough if you can get shower/parking facilities for cyclists rather than get the organisation to officially promote cycling..

 

All the best

 

Cheers

M I T R

[Jayaprakash E]

Well, if you don’t have the fenders/mudguards with reflectors, sure you will be brushed/pushed by the cars and motorbikes. This is common problem I face during nights. Whatever kind of rider you are other guys surely try to squeeze in this crazy traffic. Today in such a scenario one guy banged to my handlebar. Luckly I had anticipated it and handled it. I do not say it is safer mode of transport. I love riding and will not quit whatever the risk it has.

Regards,
Jay

[Sanath Kumar S D]

"I love riding and will not quit whatever the risk it has"

+1

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[Sameer Shisodia]

I think we can generate some stats on this forum. We've had a whole lot of people who've been commuting/doing city rides for 5 years now, and many of us also use motorbikes/cars. A spreadsheet/survey on kms, modes, near-misses, accidents, injury to others (yes, "whose safety" is an equally imp concern), the context of kgs of carbon added and pollution related deaths - it should be a good report to create a circulate.

I volunteer my time for this. 

Sridhar/Mayank/Deepak - any institutional support for this possible?

// empirically - I feel its way safer than riding a motorbike for myself, wayyyyy safer than a car for others, and for improved health.

// but perception goes strongly in the other direction

- sameer

Sameer Shisodia, Bangalore
http://linger.in

[Karthikeyan B]

i see that, her concern should also be considered and seems to be valid in Bangalore/Indian roads.

we have to find a solution yet to make cycle-friendly roads.

when i see the replies from many others, it clearly shows that, they are not ready to accept the fact that our road infrastructure is not cycle friendly.

Best Regards

Karthik

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, vinay shankara <vini...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Sameer Shisodia]

oops - forgot to reply-all

// can mods pls set that in the settings?

On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Sameer Shisodia <get.s...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, frankly, cycling is a great alternative precisely because it needs *less* infrastructure, not more!

The best way to have cycle-friendly roads is to have many more cycles on roads!

- sameer

--

Sameer Shisodia, Bangalore
http://linger.in

[Abhijit Bera]

This is like asking how safe is it to travel by bus or an airplane. Everything is prone to accidents. Accidents can happen even in the workplace! You could fall down from a chair or hurt your wrists from RSI on a keyboard.

The correct reason to promote cycling should not be safety. 

The correct reasons to promote cycling should be 

1) Saving the environment by reducing green house gas emissions from burning fuels

2) Reducing vehicular congestion on the streets.

3) Improving the health of the individual through physical activity.

4) This is what Steve Jobs had to say on cycles and computers:

"I read a study that measured the efficiency of locomotion for various species on the planet. The condor used the least energy to move a kilometer. Humans came in with a rather unimpressive showing about a third of the way down the list....That didn't look so good, but then someone at Scientific American had the insight to test the efficiency of locomotion for a man on a bicycle and a man on a bicycle blew the condor away. That's what a computer is to me: the computer is the most remarkable tool that we've ever come up with. It's the equivalent of a bicycle for our minds."

Yes, cycles make human motion very efficient. Especially geared cycles.

Regards

Abhjit Bera

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, vinay shankara <vini...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Darshan Bildikar]

Technically geared bikes (rather the ones with sprockets) are less efficient than single speeds.

From wikipedia: From a mechanical viewpoint, up to 99% ^[2] of the energy delivered by the rider into the pedals is transmitted to the wheels, although the use of gearing mechanisms may reduce this by 10–15%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance#Energy_efficiency

[mahesh kumar]

Hi,

 

Get the cycling infrastructure first, then take care of rest. I saw your HR reply she saying No in a polished way. She is not in a position to create a new policy for you.

 

 First Suggest your HR to experience the Thrill of cycling,  get infrastructure and you start cycling to office. a team will follow you then you can ask for extra benefits.

 

Regards,

Mahesh M

[Shreelesh Kumar]

I am pretty sure this has got nothing to do with safety. Like someone already mentioned, its just a way to delay and/or block the idea completely. Instead of answering her question, throw her koschan back at herself. Why does she consider it unsafe or unsafer than other means of transport? Sound genuine about it. Her response will show what her intentions are. Once you have all her reasons, you can clear them up. You only need to clear the doubts she has, not more, not less, not what others or you think she 'may' have. If you take a targeted approach and if she's honest, then it will be easier to work it out that way than explaining all possible safety issues and in the process creating more doubts in her mind. OTOH if she's no intention to provide the facility, she'll obviously dilly dally with new reasons and then you'll have to go head to head or find someone above her and get it done.

Shreelesh Kumar
http://twitter.com/shreelesh
www.flickr.com/photos/shreeleshkumar

Protect the Trees. Save Open Spaces. Save Bangalore

Ride a cycle. SHIFT_ the way you move.

[Sunil Raghavan]

Missed this thread earlier - my two cents - Companies need to be seen to be doing the right thing. The HR lady is asking a perfectly valid qn. I dont think it needs to be interpreted as a polite refusal. She is however asking you to do the homework and give her it to her on a plate. Qn needs to be answered in a way that she can use to demonstrate later that she has taken a responsible decision if ever questioned. The answer needs to cover the following areas: (at least, perhaps more)
- importance of cycling in a sustainability campaign and as a means of commuting worldwide
- health benefits of cycling
- suggested company policy on cycling
- facilities needed/provided at each company site in support of cycling
- safety guidelines to minimise risk to employees
- types of cycles employees should consider using and places to buy them
- riding experiences of some regular commuters, people willing to be contacted
- safety and accident statistics in city - what %age of accidents involve cycles- etc.
-

This may need re-arranging a bit.

If someone is volunteering to setup a wiki, perhaps we can jointly contribute to building this document if it doesn't already exist. It will be relevant to any company trying to respond to similar requests from employees. A lot of the general answers are in the policy documents published by the Danes. Look for it on Issuu.com

[nilesh dhumal]

i agree with Sunil & sameer i fee this will help her and many others to understand better,

count me in for any sort of work needed. would love to help.

Nelly

www.procycle.in

[Pradeep Naidu]

oh me too me tooo....we can sit in cafe coffe day.....

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Pradeep Naidu S

[Nilesh]

I don't understand how is any 2 wheeler different from another just because one has motor and the other does not. If you fell from either chances are you will get hurt anyways. If safety on road is in question then no doubt a Car or a Bus is the safest. 

[Sharath]

A motorcycle is perhaps less dangerous because you don't have to breathe as hard as when you are on a bicycle (so less pollution gets into your lungs). While on a two-wheeler, if you come across insane levels of pollution, you could just hold your breath for a while. Now, try doing that while on a bicycle. But then, this cannot be quantified, since our ability to get out of a traffic jam is far greater on a bicycle than on a motorcycle. So, you might just end up breathing less polluted air on a bicycle anyway. Also, the fact that you can choose not to wait at signals when on a bicycle will help. Traffic signals have crazy levels of pollution.

Cheers,
Sharath

[Darshan Bildikar]

Will you please come and explain to the management at Brigade Gateway please. Today morning my cycle was confiscated because I refused to enter through a gate reserved for cyclists (using that gate means that I have to add 4 KM to my 50 KM daily commute). 

I'm currently working with my facilities to sort this whole mess out but if it doesn't work out, I'll picket the place. If that doesn't work, I'll have to file a local police complaint. 

Darshan

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Nilesh <thakur...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't understand how is any 2 wheeler different from another just because one has motor and the other does not. If you fell from either chances are you will get hurt anyways. If safety on road is in question then no doubt a Car or a Bus is the safest. 

--

[Sunil Raghavan]

Thanks guys - I figured the collective wisdom of this group should be tapped to build the business case. It would be useful material which we can offer to local companies to use. Any volunteers to setup a collaborative authoring document?

And agree, Pradeep - we could do a working discussion at a Coffee Day sometime...

Sunil

[Pradeep Naidu]

ooopps...i meant the discussion with the (She)HR only......And sunil, you seem to be one hell of an intelligent fellow at your workplace dude..I hardly understand your english...Wat can i  speak with you in caaaffeeee day maaannn????..i will be counting stars ....if its nite or counting autos on road...if its a day..

--
Pradeep Naidu S

[Sri]

+1 to Jagan and +1 to Vasu.
It is very easy to mistake my point and my question.

As a person who travels by bicycle to his/her office, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU (and all those who use the same mode of transport) WANT FROM THE OFFICE / MANAGEMENT? - GET DOWN TO THE SPECIFICS

The answer to her question How can we take more responsibility for making this safe? is very simple - THERE IS NONE. How can anyone take more responsibility for making cycling safe for others?  The organisation could include cycling under the ambit of the compulsory helmet or compulsory reflectors / lights et al policy, at the maximum.

When we talk about 'safety' here, many tend to mistake a sense of safety as safety itself, even if it is a false sense of safety.  One should learn to differentiate it very clearly or even point it out to others carefully.

Instead of the whole "better encouragement/promotion from the leadership and change in policies" approach, from the company's point of view, you might want to concentrate on my earlier question, get solutions.  And then, those of you who use this mode of transport, should encourage others and promote it in your own way independently.

My two bits ....

Darshan, I've emailed you directly with a different approach...

Sri

[Mayank Rungta]

Hi,

Here is my experience at my company Juniper. We have not had to ask them for anything. The number of bikers has increased on its own accord. I haven't done the bike workshop at my own company (this hasn't taken off for various reasons! :)). But the good thing is when you hit the critical mass (important threshold) things happen on their own.

We have now got these brand new bike parking space and that too without any push from the bikers (to the best of my knowledge! :)). I think this evolution approach is far better than fighting it out and such.

How to reach that critical mass is an important bit. I can cite two very good examples - Yateesh for Wipro and Aditya for Cypress (there is somebody else also I can't get his name!). They have done a lot to get biking popular at their places at least much more than I have in my company! :D I especially loved that Wipro started giving interest free loans for bikes. This is a huge step by an org to promote biking! :)

We are starting of the bike workshops shortly and hoping to get them in full swing like they used to be in the past (sometime 5-6 a month).






Sorry about the bad pic but I guess the idea is clear! :) So get more bums on the saddle and see the cascading effect. I am sure if Darshan was not the only person at his office riding it would make a larger impact. Also, if one of the big shots in this campus (a CEO, or such) cycles in from one of these prohibited gates I am sure it would be interesting to see the reaction of these duds who follow rules without using any common sense.

[Ali Poonawala]

Mayank your is an ideal scenario.. things happening for you with minimal effort.. Darshan must heed to Monica's message- it is a beautiful balanced perspective of one of us who belongs to the other side too.
On brow beating the security guys..I do that at Indian Express building, glare at him if he refuses to let me in / out through the so called 'car entrance' but gray hair help, i suspect !

On Mar 4, 2013 7:07 PM, "Mayank Rungta" <mr....@gmail.com> wrote:

[Darshan Bildikar]

I have no problem with whatever rule is created as long as it is applied uniformly and is not discriminatory. If I feel it isn't I choose not to obey it (as long as I'm not doing anything illegal). If I have to obey it, I'll protest it for sure. 

I'm not even asking for anyone to "support" cycling. All I'm asking is to be left alone. I'll check with some HR friends of mine but I'm sure they'll disagree with the statement that HR have to think like "parents". That, in my opinion, is quite ridiculous (no offense please)

Darshan

[Sunil Raghavan]

Hi Folks, Lots of great points:
- Monica: we should factor in your points and perspective in whatever material we build. Perhaps you can help socialise this with other HR folks too, so we reach firms through an alternate path.
- Mayank: Since I've heard you make the pitch, I know you have value to add.
- Pradeep: glad you clarified - I thought you were addicted to caffeine. We'll leave it to you to scout out the interesting HR women to discuss this with :-)

This is looking like quite a lot of work - nobody setting up the documents so far, so I will setup some in the next 2-3 days to get us started. If there are enough contributors, we should have useful material in the end...

Sunil

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Ali Poonawala <alfa...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mayank Rungta]

Do I see a potential venue/route for the next critical mass here? One article in the media about this nonsense and they will be taken to task! :-)

This might elicit more negative attitude but you have about 3 weeks if nothing else works. Leela palace have in to the negative publicity! :-)

[Shreelesh Kumar]

On 4 March 2013 18:16, Monica Pillai <monica...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe you could talk to the company about a waiver, where you can sign off a document saying you take responsibility for your safety to work and back and that you understand this is a high risk way of travelling. (Most sensible cardio event organisers do something similar - they ask you to sign a liability waiver form saying you are fit enough to undertake the activity and take responsibility for it.) That way, the company circumvents the whole legal angle.

This is exactly what should NOT be brought up from our side unless the management brings it up themselves. First, why do you want to give them the idea and/or accept that cycling is riskier than any other mode of transport? Why this so-called step-motherly treatment for cyclists and why should we accept it?

Commuting to office is not a 'cardio event'. Hence, that reason for a signing a waiver is illogical.

[Opendro]

It is a lot different Nilesh. You can get hurt really bad from a motorbike fall or accident at average speed. But in a bicycle, you are likely to escape with a minor bruise. It is because of the ease of control in a bicycle and inherent slow speed.

If people are talking about accidents involving multiple vehicles, then cycle is definitely the most vulnerable. In that case, even car is vulnerable depending on how many SUVs or trucks or buses are around you.

If the question is about the chances of a bicycle getting involved in an accident or car getting involved in an accident, I say, the chances are equals depending on how alert and disciplined we are.

One of the questions I face from people about safety of cyclist is how we cross the roads. They are somewhat convinced that it is not risky to ride on the left. They think that we are slow and hence the apparent chance of being run over by fast moving vehicles when we cross the road. That is true in a high speed busy expressway. But not in the city. We move as fast as other vehicles and we shift lanes as any other vehicle. We are visible to other drivers as much. So, it is more of a wrongly conceived notion that we will get run over by others.

On Monday, March 4, 2013 12:35:13 PM UTC+5:30, Nilesh wrote:

[Basker Ramachandran]

+1 to Opendro.. completely agree..

My view / experience has always been that when am on my bike most of the time people do not perceive me as someone who competes with the space in the road as much as they do with the other motor vehicles. Many a time people would express their annoyance if you are going to be viewed as someone who is disruptive to their passage (which is why they honk..but then hey, most of the motor vehicle folks have got so much used to honking that they do it more as a second nature.. It's as if the vehicle runs Just because they honk) .If I stay close to the left of the road and ride responsibly I have never felt vulnerable in my bike.. I hardly occupy space on the road

Being predictable is all that the other motor vehicle folks expect so that they can avoid bikers and keep going on with slowing down their speed.. Infact, I notice that I am much more alert and agile to quicker responses while I am on my bike than on my car..

Basker
(Basker Ramachandran)
rba...@gmail.com,
+91 9945602485

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[Mayank Rungta]

Hi,

I was at Orion mall last night. They said no parking for bikes. I asked why and the lady got impatient. I was probably not the first to ask. She told to park it ahead and the same conversation about who holds responsibility ensued. Finally some superior came and took us to staff parking. There was no light and no place to tie the bike. The guards were getting annoyed every bit with us.

Reminds me of forum long time ago when they used to send cyclists to sunshine parking.

Darshan I think you work in the same place. I am thinking if critical mass shook folks at Leela and forum this should be doable. What say?

Let me see if we can get some media friends to write about it. If we take critical mass to end at brigade towers it will catch media attention anyways! :-)

[BCM]

Oh yesterday If I am right there was another incident reported about Brigade in this forum..

Let us remember Critical mass is not a solution to every problem that we face .. That was another reason why mass arrest and protest started in other countries against critical mass and they started branding cyclists as hooligans .. Any ways that's 1 view point, we can keep debatin on this forever..:D

Why wait till critical mass.. Just post an invite for a wknd ride and whoever is residing nearby or intrested will just jam up and will sure make a point to Brigade management that we have all the right to enter the building like any other motorists

Visit us on http://bangalorecriticalmass.webs.com/ (Do register yourself today)

Thanks
-BCM-

Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

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From: Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:33:37 +0530

To: Basker Ramachandran, Byker IBM EGL<rba...@gmail.com>

Cc: BBC<bangalor...@googlegroups.com>; Opendro<ope...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Re: Bike to Work - need help answer safety concerns of our HR Head

--

[Darshan Bildikar]

Yes please! As of today I am not allowed in from the main gate to my office. I need to take a service entrance which adds 3 KM to my commute. Other motorcycles get in with impunity. 

Let me know how I can help.

--

[BCM]

Good Morning,

Just made few quick calls to brigade group..

Guess what they are very helpful and provided a list of 8 phone numbers to contact to solve my problem..

When I contacted facilities of Orion,
A gentleman by name Bhaskar, facility manager informed that parking is now made available near Balbhavan next to auto stand (vivekanada college side entrance). Also he informed that all guards have been instructed to show the way to customers incase they turn up in bicycle. They also said that they are working on a better facility in days to come. Incase u find any trouble then contact 08067282222 facilities number.

Hope this solves 1st problem. For the other such cases please contact the management or facilities who are willing to help you..As we said earlier protest, showing strength, CM should be the last resort..

Few more contact details
Brigade estate -residential place 23576622
Brigade general enquiry 22682143

Happy cycling :)

Visit us on http://bangalorecriticalmass.webs.com/ (Do register yourself today)

Thanks
-BCM-

Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

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From: Darshan Bildikar <darshan...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 11:17:50 +0530

To: Mayank Rungta<mr....@gmail.com>

Cc: Basker Ramachandran, Byker IBM EGL<rba...@gmail.com>; BBC<bangalor...@googlegroups.com>; Opendro<ope...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Re: Bike to Work - need help answer safety concerns of our HR Head

[Mayank Rungta]

I think last two times when bikers went to the places like Leela and forum it helped. This was part of critical mass.

Why not critical mass? It appears to be done aimless ride and not sure how long it will sustain if it accomplishes nothing. If there are stories to share it might help.

How does going on a different day help? If they are called hooligans the day won't matter. Just that it won't tarnish critical mass which is an event striving to survive at the moment!

[Mayank Rungta]

Nice! :-)

Darshan have you not tried speaking to these people? If yes we have work to do.

I had a similar experience at Lalbagh where they went to the extent of telling dogs and cycles not allowed. This is despite the bike each installed inside Lalbagh! I never got a chance to bring that up. It was a holiday do could not speak to any higher ups. They insisted that bikes be parked outside where I know a friend brand new bike was stolen long back!

[BCM]

Hi Mayank..

As I said earlier the topic is open for debate and we just presented one fact.. I am with u and not against....

And the topic of riding to a point like lalbagh or orion mall is all upto to the entire group who participate in critical mass.. I suggest when we meet for critical mass meet we can discuss such topics in front of others and chalk out a various route plans with suggestions from all the riders as I am just a volunteer like you and cannot speak for all :)

My only suggestion was why wait till 30th of this month, why can't we cycle down this wknd itself as it will solve the problem much faster

Happy cycling :)

Visit us on http://bangalorecriticalmass.webs.com/ (Do register yourself today)

Thanks
-BCM-

Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

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From: Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com>

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:13:17 +0530

To: <bangalorec...@gmail.com>

Cc: Basker Ramachandran, Byker IBM EGL<rba...@gmail.com>; Darshan Dev Bildikar<darshan...@gmail.com>; Opendro<ope...@gmail.com>; <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>