Who builds good wheels in Bangalore?

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Today morning while i was riding, one of the spoke nipples from my front wheel got loosened and went inside the wheel.

I have no idea how. Even after a spoke came off, the wheel was still ride able. I was very near my house so quickly got back home without much damage.

I refitted the nipple and the wheel was a little out of true, tried truing it, its pretty OK now. But i have no idea if the spoke tensions are ok etc.

Are there any good shops/guys in bangalore who are known to be good at building wheels?

I would like to rebuild both wheels so that i minimize the chances of such incidents in the future.

If i get some quick replies i will get it to the shop/person today itself :-)

Thank you,

Regards

Vishnu

[Shankar Shastry]

Take it to wheelsports. As they usually tend to be very busy, it might require some follow up, but it is worth it. A friend also had a good experience at Pedalsandwheels Malleswaram. Is this the 24h bike you just got? ;)

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[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Yup its the 20h front wheel :-(
Wheelsports is at the other end of bangalore :-( lets see.

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Anyone in this part of Bangalore?

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[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

By this part, i meant around Whitefield or marthahalli

[anil s kadsur]

Just wheel truing most of the non ELBS will do it.

You can find many of them in your own area...

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

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From: Vishnu Janardhanan S <vij...@gmail.com>

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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 22:21:47 -0700 (PDT)

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Cc: Shankar Shastry<shan...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Who builds good wheels in Bangalore?

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[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

I have made the wheel true myself. Not sure if the spoke tension is even. A bit apprehensive since its a 20 spoke wheel.

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Just spoke to Naveen @ wheelsports, getting the wheel rebuilt(mostly both) on Wednesday.

[Opendro]

If the wheel is trued, shouldn't we assume the the spoke tensions are even, unless we are correcting a bent rim using varying spoke tension. But how much tension is sufficient - even if we assume their evenness? I think that should depend on a lot of factors like rider weight, spoke tensile strength, rim strength, etc. If you see the spokes are trued and rim circumference is equidistant from the hub center, there is nothing to worry about. I don't see the need for an expert mechanic. But that is me!

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[Nikhil Ram Mohan]

I disagree Opendro. It is not necessary that the spoke tension is right if the wheel is in true. You can have a true wheel with low spike tension and that is especially bad in a 20 spoke wheel.

The wheel is a lot more vulnerable when the spoke tension is low and has add low speed as 20. In a rebuild the builder needs to open it all out,grease the nipples, then make sure that the wheel has the right spoke tension and trued in 3 axes (lateral, vertical and dish).

If the wheel is rebuilt well it should hold true for a good period of time.

As you rightly mentioned it all depends on the spokes, rim and rider weight.

Nikhil
Cyclists for Life
Crankmeister Bicycle Works

[Sanath Kumar S D]

Vishnu,

Go through the link below . . . .

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bangalore-bikers/XI8d20XymjQ/VVGvwnw_W8oJ

You are the best judge . . . . .

Thanks and Regards,

Sanath Kumar S D

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[Opendro]

Was my English so bad that you totally misunderstood me? I re-read my own post again. I didn't seem to indicate that spoke tensions are correct for a trued wheel. But by and large, I don't care all these, may be because my weight is less and second, I use lesser air pressure which takes some shock over bad bumps.

Anyway, the majority here seem to disagree with me that cycle is a simple machine. So, you are right (from majority point of view)

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Opendro, I am also of the opinion that bike is a simple machine. I have always done all maintenance by my self. Have trued my mybike wheel also.
maybe I am a bit paranoid in this case since its a 20 spoke wheel and my first road bike.

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[anil s kadsur]

" that cycle is a simple machine."

I completely agree with you on this....that is why I love cycling!!

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: Opendro <ope...@gmail.com>

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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 10:48:46 -0700 (PDT)

To: <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Who builds good wheels in Bangalore?

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[Opendro]

I agree Vishnu. We get more courage with cheaper items :-)

[Sreepathi Pai]

Nikhil's point was that you can have a true wheel, but the spoke
tension can be too low to maintain wheel strength. So while trueness
indicates that the spokes are mostly evenly tensioned (except as
Opendro points out in case of deformed wheels that you're trying to
re-true), the exact tension is more important and this is especially
true for 20-spoke wheels. In this case, you don't need an expert
mechanic, but an experienced one who can tell what spoke tension is
correct. If you have a spoke tensiometer, then you can even dispense
with the experience and follow the tables. I built half-a-dozen wheels
(all 32H/36H) and found out on a particular problematic wheel that I
was under-tensioning (I neither had the experience nor the
tensiometer).

A slight complication arises on high-spoke count (36) deep-V rims on
the front wheel that have, in my experience, held true even when a
few spokes were completely loose.

Finally, spoke tensile strength never matters because the rims will
fail before you exceed the tensile strength of steel spoke. Spokes
fail because of fatigue (i.e. they fracture) and not because tension
is exceeded.

@Vishnu, Naveen at Wheelsports is a great wheel builder and has tons
of experience. He rebuilt my problematic wheel and it worked fine
after that.

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[Nikhil Ram Mohan]

Thanks Sreepathi. That was exactly my point.

Sorry if I misunderstood you Opendro, but even i agree that the cycle is a relatively simple machine. I say relatively because i feel it isn't as simple as it looks :-).

Regards

Nikhil
Cyclists for Life
Crankmeister Bicycle Works

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Just wanted to update you guys, I got both the wheel trued by Naveen@wheelsports.

Its running properly now :-)

He said that the spokes were not tensioned properly on both wheels

Looks like Fuji does not do a good job with the wheel build and people should consider getting the wheels checked as soon as they buy a new bike :-|

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Vishnu Janardhanan S <vij...@gmail.com> wrote:

> He said that the spokes were not tensioned properly on both wheels
> Looks like Fuji does not do a good job with the wheel build and people
> should consider getting the wheels checked as soon as they buy a new bike

Standard practice on any bike with machine-built wheels :)

Check as soon as you get a bike and after some few tens of kilometers.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Oh didn't know that. Thanks!
Never bothered to check it on my mtb as well. Probably its less susceptible when compared to a road bike wheel.

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Dear All,

My problem with wheels does not seem to settle :-(

I had a flat on my rear tire and i fixed it, when i inflated the tire back, there is a crack on the side wall.

Looks like the tube got punctured because of the crack.

I have no idea how it happened, i don't remember going into any pothole or anything.

When inflated to 90psi i can see the tube through the crack

does that mean that the tire is unusable?

Is replacing the tire the best option?

Any suggestions on 700X25c tires?

Thank you,

Regards

Vishnu

[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Also, can i put a 23mm tire in one wheel and 25mm on the other?

If so what should i put in front wheel?

[anil s kadsur]

My front tire is 23 mm and back tire is 30 mm

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: Vishnu Janardhanan S <vij...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 20:30:20 +0530

To: Sreepathi Pai<sre...@gmail.com>

Cc: O p e n d r o<ope...@gmail.com>; bangalor...@googlegroups.com<bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Who builds good wheels in Bangalore?

[Ravindra BR]

I have read it should be the other way since front gives stability and the rear gives traction

[Ashok Kumar S]

I think you can go for 23 in front and 25 in rear if you want to. 23 gives better aerodynamic performance it seems. Do some googling and read up, it will help. 

Thanks and regards,

Ashok. 

Sent from my iPhone

[vinod]

I have read it should be the other way since front gives stability and the rear gives traction

 

My MTB TREK xcaliber 6 came with 29X2.5 tyre at front (for traction) and 29X2.0 tyre at rear(for rolling). stock.

 

 

Vinod

[anil s kadsur]

If you look at motor bikes majority of them have more wider tires in the back compared to front.

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

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From: vinod <vinod...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 09:11:49 -0700 (PDT)

To: <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [BBC] Re: Who builds good wheels in Bangalore?

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[Shyam Sundar S Iyer]

Motor bikes are completely diffrent domain, they have an engine, exhaust, suspension and the balance is done accordingly.

 

The logic for bicycles:

I have always experienced that front wheel stops and the rear wheels skids, so to solve this we may have to give more bearing to the rear wheel.

Note: In ordinary bike designs the rear wheel is loaded more with the rider weight and hence has more momentum and you need to brake this momentum. So a rear wheel with a wider tire may solve this.

 

@Anil is correct!

 

Aerodynamically you may need to seperate the flow and hence front could be wider, but usually the handle bars and the riders torso do that job and tires dont matter!

The rear should be faired and sharp to reduce wake (vortex shedding), you should see that air see a fatter and wider bike than the bike actually is! It is because of the "Dead Air" (air that has lost the kinetic energy) spining and blocking the free stream.

 

 

[Opendro]

In bicycles too, more weight is borne by the rear wheel. Hence, more air pressure if same tire size or wider tire if same pressure is required in the rear. As you know, compensating the lack of contact area with higher pressure makes the ride harsh on bad roads. Hence, wider tire on rear tire is always recommended rather than increasing the pressure too much there.

About the braking, momentum is always in the direction of velocity which is horizontally forward. Momentum is product of mass and velocity. For wheels, it has an additional momentum called angular momentum which is again entirely dependent on the weight of the wheel (tire/tube) and radius (ignoring the velocity as it will be same for both front and rear). Now, you know why it is wrong to say that rear wheel has more momentum.

As for the braking, a frictional force is applied in opposite direction of the momentum on each wheel. Frictional force is a function of the weight (force normal/perpendicular to the plane of contact). As fictional force is applied on the ground contact and centre of gravity is much above the ground, the system (rider+bike) tends to topple forward which changes the weight distribution on the wheels - making the weight on the rear almost zero. That is why it is the front wheel that is most important in braking unless the friction (grip) on front wheel is insufficient to cause a weightless feeling on the rear wheel (such as on a wet and smooth surface or loose gravels). We can increase the grip on the rear tire during braking by either shifting the centre of gravity of rider down or by a deliberate shift in point of application of force of the rider mass on the bike - say, shift from handlebar and saddle to more on pedal which will translate to bottom bracket.

[anand raman]

Opendro,

Curious Are you physics major? We all probably read about it a while ago but it has been washed out. It is always such  pleasure to read / re-read your message and refresh older / hard learnt concepts. 

anand

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[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

While i agree with the un-weighing of the rear wheel when both brakes are applied together, one thing which has always perplexed me is that when each brake is applied independently, front brake seems to have more stopping power.

Note that i am not talking about applying both brakes together, so when rear brake is applied there is no front brake thus no un-weighing. 

Does this have anything to do with physics or is it some thing like, the cable is longer so it expands more than front cable thus reducing stopping power?

[Sreepathi Pai]

The rear-wheel gets unweighed, as Opendro said., /regardless/ of which
brake is applied as long as you were moving in the forward direction
If you were moving backwards, then the front wheel would get
unweighed.

The wheels and bike stop, you don't. Hence your weight transfers to
the front wheel.

It's Newton's first law, and pretty much everything has to do with
Physics by definition. Only when the problem gets too complicated for
Physicists do they toss it up to the Chemists (who in turn toss their
hard problems to the Biologists).

You may want to read up on Bowden cables.

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[Vishnu Janardhanan S]

Ok now i get it, thanks!

[deepakvrao]

There should be a 'like' button :-)

[Opendro]

There is un-weighing when you apply only rear brake too (no front brake) and that is why you will skid very easily whereas the front brake won't skid that easily. Now you know why cars, motorcycles, etc give so much importance to front brake (such as larger disc while rear may be a mere drum, etc.)

[anil s kadsur]

+1

Absolutely agree with Anand

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

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From: anand raman <ara...@gmail.com>

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Date: Tue, 6 May 2014 16:52:48 +0530

To: Opendro<ope...@gmail.com>

Cc: Bangalore Bikers Club<bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Re: Who builds good wheels in Bangalore?