Does cloudy weather affect GPS reception?

[Sunil Raghavan]

I had an irritating problem for a few days - my Blackberry running Endomondo refused to lock on to my location for the first 3 km of my ride on Saturday 9th - It picked up the location when I got to the top of Domlur flyover - either a coincidence or it had a clear view of the sky. I had a similar problem on Sunday, then on Monday it refused to lock on to my location for the entire ride. I was wondering if the sudden problem was linked to the monsoon clouds - the sky was pretty cloudy.

However, I also rebooted my phone and today's ride I had no problem - but today was a pretty clear sky. So my question is - did any others in Bangalore have the same problems over the last few days? If so, we could conclude that it is a weather related problem - otherwise it may just be some glitch specific to my phone.

Thanks, Sunil

[Chidambaran Subramanian]

I think it does. In fact, I have problems next to extremely tall buildings too.

> --
> biking conversations on the world famous "Bangalore Bikers Club" :)
>
> are you a part of the bicycle racing scene?
> Visit www.bangalorebicyclechampionships.com for more details

[deepakvrao]

Very cloudy weather has delayed my car GPS locking, but never for my
cycle GPS. Having said that, it was only delayed locking on, and would
eventually lock on after a couple of minutes.

Could also be that the car GPS is fairly old, so older technology
maybe?

[Sunil Raghavan]

My BB is 2 1/2 years old now - middle-aged for a phone I guess if not old... Anyway thanks for the responses guys - good to know weather is a likely cause - partial explanation at least - are there better quality GPS receivers which are impervious to weather conditions? Either on smartphones or Garmin type devices?

Deepak: What brand of cycle GPS are you using that you say always works promptly?

Thanks, Sunil

[Shankar Shastry]

I've had lock on problems even with my samsung phone and my earlier nokia phones but never with the forerunner. In the car, I'm always bothered by the lock on delay while using the samsung galaxy phone.

Thanks, Sunil

[anilk...@gmail.com]

I also use BB and Endomondo yes I do have similar issues.

Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

---

From: Sunil Raghavan <raghava...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT)

To: <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [BBC] Does cloudy weather affect GPS reception?

I had an irritating problem for a few days - my Blackberry running Endomondo refused to lock on to my location for the first 3 km of my ride on Saturday 9th - It picked up the location when I got to the top of Domlur flyover - either a coincidence or it had a clear view of the sky. I had a similar problem on Sunday, then on Monday it refused to lock on to my location for the entire ride. I was wondering if the sudden problem was linked to the monsoon clouds - the sky was pretty cloudy.

However, I also rebooted my phone and today's ride I had no problem - but today was a pretty clear sky. So my question is - did any others in Bangalore have the same problems over the last few days? If so, we could conclude that it is a weather related problem - otherwise it may just be some glitch specific to my phone.

Thanks, Sunil

[Kishan Kumar]

No problemo on my garmin!

Sent from my iPhone

[deepakvrao]

Garmin 305 earlier, now the Edge 500.

Car GPS were TomTom and Garmin. Both were a few years old. Bought a
new TT and no delay at all. Like I said, the old ones took a couple of
minutes but never failed to lock on.

Galaxy S2 locks on in any weather and pretty fast too. I'm sure the
newer GPS chips are the reason.

[Sudhir P]

the garmin FRs (and maybe the edge too) use a weird trick for
accelerating the locking on. It assumes that you are somewhere in the
vicinity (<100km away) from where you last used it. And it locks on in
seconds! If you have gone to a new place (or if it believes tis
confused), it takes minutes. Sometimes >5 mins.

-sud

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 12:46 AM, Sanjay Mehta <sanjaym...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes. The signal from the gps satellites will be attenuated by cloud cover
> and proximity to obstructions like tall buildings.
>
> You should look for a phone setting called Assisted GPS or similar and turn
> it on. This will use the cellphone's data connection and cell tower
> information to  speed up the acquisition process. I assume you have an
> always-on data connection on your BB?

[Satya Balakrishnan]

I use Nokia 500 (Belle OS) and have not found any issues in GPS lock if I turn on Mobile data. If I turn off mobile data, then it uses the GPS satellite and that lock can happen only in open areas - and it takes about 5 minutes.

But with Mobile data (assisted GPS using mobile tower) it typically takes a couple of seconds and even inside my apartment, it locks on pretty quickly.

[S Chidambaran]

I have a regular Nokia Lumia cell phone,but am having issues with the data  connection, so assisted GPS not working.

Here is a workout.

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/63482969

Apparently I ran right over heavy scrubland , through tall trees and scaled a wall as part of my training. Though don't remember any of it.

Regards
Chiddu

[Sunil Raghavan]

Great bunch of inputs folks - Thanks a ton!

Based on the feedback I guess my phone is not doing too badly age notwithstanding - I'm not reportedly jumping over trees & walls too often - It does have the Assist feature and I have it turned on, and yes the data connection is always on - Endomondo uses that anyway.

I can expect to get quicker GPS locking when I switch to a new phone or a Garmin. I dont have a business case for a Garmin currently, but a new phone may be in order sometime sooner, so I'll check GPS performance reviews before buying.

Thanks,
Sunil

[deepakvrao]

A phone is a very poor substitute for a cycling computer. Get the
Garmin if you cycle reasonably regularly and are serious about cycling
as a sport.

[Avinash]

I use M-1000C  http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_content.jsp?pno=351 GPS system with my phone. After lot of search on net I have zeroed in to this product. It is not effected by any adverse climate. It is a 66 channel GPS data logger with sensitivity up to -165 dBm. Can be easily paired with any phone with blue tooth for navigation.  As phone power is not used for receiving GPS data, phone Battery lasts longer while using GPS navigation. For data logging no need to connect to phone.  I had bought it from ebay india around a year back for 3000/-.

[Abhijit Kshirsagar]

Hey,

Clouds and trees severely attenuate GPS signal (water attenuates much of the radio spectrum). This can severely affect lock time, but rarely causes loss of lock if you're outdoors.

Simple solution:
1. Turn on data and GPS on your phone a few minutes before you step out. Or stand in a your balcony for a few mins till it locks.

2. In the GPS plots the mapping software draws lines when it does not have data points. You can use software that plots only the points and allows you to add/modify points.

~Abhijit

[Sunil Raghavan]

Deepak,

> A phone is a very poor substitute for a cycling computer. Get the
> Garmin if you cycle reasonably regularly and are serious about cycling
> as a sport.

I've heard this comment before, but am not clear enough what the Garmin does which smartphone apps dont do. I'm guessing it is to do with allowing a single integrated view of all ride data and tracking trends. Is there a list somewhere of the critical stuff that Garmin (or Suunto / Polar) does better?

Sunil

[deepakvrao]

Battery life is number one. New Garmins give over 15 hours I think.

What you can do with Sporttracks and/or Ascent is beyond imagination.
You can evaluate laps, rate of climb, avg HR/cadence/power per lap,
create splits, combine splits. Get gradient of climbs per km/half km
etc. Cadence, power etc are all stuff you cannot do on a phone.

Time spent in each HR or Power zone is great for me. I love to see how
much time I actually spent in say Z2 when I planned a Z2 ride.

Plus it's there on your handlebar. I would hate to keep a 30K
smartphone on the bar.

Customizable screens. 5 of them.

Workouts. Interval training. etc

Courses which you can load. Love this when I am cycling unknown roads.

Comparing rides.

This is all just off the top of my head. Will compile a list and post
on BZ.

[deepakvrao]

Just to add, all depends if you are a data junkie. Some are, and some
hate numbers.

I, personally, find numbers very motivating.

I'm pretty fat and slow, but I love to see the numbers after a ride.
YMMV.

[Sudhir P]

And some of us are such number junkies that, we keep learning newer
and newer numbers and calculations to figure out how much exactly we
suck. :)

Keeping definite infallible numbers as goals work to isolate and work
on our different weakspots one at a time, in isolation helps us see
our progress clearer, and helps motivating us.

Battery life was the prime reason for me to buy a garmin too. Ease of
use while running/biking (which essentially boils down to what deepak
listed) was also a secondary reason. Touchscreens are ultra-irritating
when running/biking

-sud

[Satya Balakrishnan]

Which garmin models do you guys use???

[Sudhir P]

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Satya Balakrishnan
<satya.bal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Which garmin models do you guys use???
>

I guess the most popular here are the forerunner 305 and the edge 500.

sud

p.s: I use a 310xt

[Sunil Raghavan]

Very interesting - thanks Deepak & Sudhir. I first started paying attention to my bike rides after I installed my first smartphone tracker app a couple of years ago. Being able to measure the rides suddenly motivated me to push myself to ride longer / faster / harder etc etc, so I went bought myself another bike, started doing longer rides, switched to Endomondo, etc. I guess that makes me a numbers junkie too. Oh well, another item to add to the wishlist...

Sunil

[Arvind Ganesh]

IMO, a smartphone makes the best cycle computer. Here's why

1. Better display

2. Wifi means wireless upload of rides

3. Software updates are frequent, new features get added all the time

4. Functions as music player too

5. Can be used as camera in a pinch. 

Now the cons are (some have been stated in this thread already)

1. Battery life

2. More expensive if in a crash

3. All metrics not available

I bought an iPhone 3GS to use as a cycle computer. Note: this is not used as a phone - it has no SIM card - it only functions as a cycle computer. So taking a look at the cons again

1. Battery life - works fine up to 6 hours (remember, it has no SIM card/data plan etc) which takes care of regular rides. For longer rides, I use an external battery pack. 

2. Expensive - I bought a good used iPhone 3GS from a US site. It is locked to AT&T but I don't care since I don't use a SIM card - it cost me $130 (cheaper than a comparable Garmin)

3. Metrics - I find that with the right app I can get most of the metrics I'm interested in. I use Abvio Cyclemeter. Deepak, you can check this to see that it is quite close to what your Garmin can do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ_oJa7BmWg In some cases it goes beyond.

Also, I have purchased a RAM Mount, ANT+ dongle and a HR monitor and Speed/Cadence sensor. With all these added it is closer in price to the Garmin, and I plan to invest in a waterproof case for it which will make it just about even price with the Garmin. However, I like the regular software updates and the freedom to track using Strava or other new apps when I want to. 

-Arvind

--

[George Joseph]

405hr - a few years old but work for running AND biking. Has all the bells and whistles, altimeter, gps, hr, max hr, target hr zones with alarms, race against yourself using previous data or against computer; Calories burned; power is an option; etc, etc. Downloadable to pc/Mac for analysis. Let's you overlay two different rides to compare where you were slower/faster based on speed, heart rate, distance. Let's you see your progress on a map of region and track yourself s as a dot as you drag the cross hairs over the data plot on one side. 

I used it to figure out where I can shave 5% offs latest time easiest instead of just " trying to go faster" than last time. I even figured where I could slow down for a rest, since it wasn't worth it.  

Its all very interesting ("nerdy") but i really love the fact it has fairly reliable gps and most of all rechargeable. :) Plug it in the night before I go and it done in a few hours. 

All that being said I have friends who use different android and iPhone apps. They download the data as well. If your going to have your phone with you, you might as well put it to some good use, right?  

Only question/concern would be battery life while using gps on the smart phone?

Thanks,

George Joseph

IN Cell: 9483501169

NA Cell: 847-859-9591

-sent from my iPhone 4S

[George Joseph]

3GS is not worth it as a plain cyclocomputer. You can jail break your 3GS for about 50 rupees. 

With a sim you can get "assisted gps" which uses cell tower triangulation to help increase the speed and accuracy of the gps signal. 

George Joseph

IN Cell: 9483501169

NA Cell: 847-859-9591

-sent from my iPhone 4S

[Arvind Ganesh]

George, I use the same iPhone 3GS with the RaceSplitter app to time BBCh races. :) It does other things when not being used as a cycle computer. I have a newer smartphone for regular use. 

-Arvind

[Sudhir P]

Another pro for the garmin FRs: You can wear it on your wrist :)

[Naresh V.]

Hi,

I'm looking for a GPS device that can be mounted on a bike which:
a. helps with navigation through waypoints (i.e. no background maps
like a google maps; just a compass which indicates the direction to
the next waypoint and the distance to it (would be nice if it can
extrapolate the remaining time based on past/current speed)).
b. uses AA(A) batteries and not the Li-battery kind that requires plug-
point charging.
c. can be combined with HRM and cadence sensors.

Does the edge 500 support a. above?

Thanks,
Naresh

On Jun 19, 10:27 am, Sudhir P <sudhirpalli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Satya Balakrishnan
>

[Uday]

Naresh,

I use the Garmin 405CX.

Once the route is marked and downloaded, it will point out the direction and tell you where to take turns and all.

But I have done it only on self-marked routes on the Garmin itself.

You should be able to download routes, as well as create your own route. I havent explored that.

The only limitation is that it has a runtime of 8 hrs. The 410XT can go upto 18 hours I believe, check the specs anway.

+Uday

[Uday]

Arvind,

Why DIY when everything is available readily.

I also used to think like you. I have a Garmin 405CX, and I can use it for running, cycling and swimming.

Try using an iphone for all the apps. 

+Uday

[Arvind Ganesh]

Uday, that may be true but we're only talking about cycle computer functions here. 

The iPhone can take photos, time races, and make calls - I won't say try doing that on your 405CX because it wouldn't be relevant :)

-Arvind

[anilk...@gmail.com]

"The iPhone can take photos, time races, and make calls - I won't say try doing that on your 405CX because it wouldn't be relevant :)"

Lol lol lol

Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

---

From: Arvind Ganesh <arv...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 16:38:07 +0530

To: Bangalore Bikers Club<bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Re: Does cloudy weather affect GPS reception?

[Kishan Kumar]

(Best of) both worlds for me!

I carry a garmin and my iPhone both on all my rides. Beat that :)

I enjoyed the services of endomondo and run keeper on my iPhone for long and one day when I was convinced that this (cycling and running) is going to be with me for good, I went ahead and got me a 310xt. Loving it now!

Sent from my iPhone

[Sandeep Pai]

Hi All,

I personally liked and prefer Garmin Fit on my iPhone. I have tried run keeper, strava, cyclemeter etc!! But out of all Garmin Fit is the best!!! Please try it!!! 

Thanks, 

Sandeep S Pai

Sent from my iPhone