Fwd: [OFF TOPIC] Cancer - "The Forbidden Cures" a Documentary by Massimo Mazzucco @ Cobalt, Church Street, 6:45PM, Tue 20-MAY-2014

[Mayank Rungta]

Hi all,

Marking this OT hoping it doesn't gets discussed beyond this post. If you really wish to discuss please come to the venue tomorrow! :)

Keeping in mind the discussions on coke, nutrition and relation to cancer I thought this film might interest the audience here. Some people who have shown a relation between diet and cancer and provided solutions that _they_claim_work_. Alternative perspective to otherwise expensive chemotherapies, surgical procedures, etc.

We plan to have a lot of screenings and talks on health and nutrition. Films such as these are a build up.

"Food Inc" which we recommend everybody watches is soon going to be screened also.

Thanks,
Mayank

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Hi all,

Khula Manch along with Cobalt brings to you our first screening of Cancer - The Forbidden Cures. Please do not miss the trailer -

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frytdxdimGU#t=197

&

Please RSVP At: https://www.facebook.com/events/599226373517111/

----

Cancer is a growing worldwide epidemic, with staggering statistics: 20,000 people dying of cancer every day; 1 person out of 3 will be faced with cancer at one point in their life; and 1 million Americans are diagnosed with cancer every year.

The standard treatment for cancer has been the same for many decades and is comprised of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy, the latter two being toxic to healthy cells in the human body.

These treatments, as well as the research surrounding cancer, generate millions of dollars each year for the medical industry, with a typical cancer patient spending on-average $50,000 to treat the disease.

Over the last century, several natural cancer treatments have been developed and used to treat patients in the US and in other developed countries.

One example is a natural concoction of herbs called Essiac, created by nurse Rene Caisse in Canada in the 1920?s. Another is an herbal cure created by Harry Hoxsey, who funded clinics in 17 states before they were all closed down by the FDA in the late 1950's.

And yet another is the Gerson Therapy, created by German doctor Maximilian Gerson, who was one of the first to suggest a nutritional approach to treating chronic disease in the 1940's.

About the film

Cancer is the only disease that has been defeated dozens of times without anyone knowing it. In the last 100 years, dozens of doctors, scientists, and researchers have developed diverse and effective solutions against cancer only to be thwarted by the political and propaganda power of the drug-dominated medical profession. This is the story of Essiac, Hoxsey, Laetrile, Shark Cartilage, Mistletoe, and Bicarbonate of Soda all put together in a stunning overview that leaves no doubt that inexpensive cures for cancer do exist but are systematically blocked by Big Pharma because they come from nature and cannot be patented.

Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frytdxdimGU#t=197

When: Tuesday 20th, May18th, 2014

Time: From 6:45PM to 8:45PM

Venue: Cobalt, 46/1, Church Street, Opposite Hotel Empire, Bangalore 560001,

Map: http://goo.gl/maps/eVBPv

Contact: Swagata: +919620709874 / Sushil - 9741188993

Running time - 93 minutes

IMDB Rating - 8.1

Please RSVP At: https://www.facebook.com/events/599226373517111/

Reviews:  (Source: Amazon)

    “As someone who has lost many loving, beautiful people in my life to cancer, I've been interested in cancer prevention and cures/treatment for decades.  ”
          - Fuji

    “I would recommend it higly.”
          - michael

    "As an eyewitness, I can say that Mazzucco tells it like is was.”
          - Leon J. Radomile


REVIEW BY DAVID BONELLO - INTERNATIONAL WELLNESS DIRECTORY /// Not what it seems. When I popped in the DVD, I went to the chapters to see what they were. I felt, no, not again...the same old stuff. What a pleasant surprise. I've researched and written about these "forbidden" cures for years. What a delight to actually see an interview with Rene Caisse. We even see a party thrown for Rene a year before she died filled with people whom she had helped with their cancers. Harry Hoxsey shows up, and you get to see scenes from a rare movie that Hoxsey himself made in 1957 called You Don't Have to Die. It is so rare, you can't even find a mention of it at the Internet Movie Database. I loved the research they did on this film. It must have taken years to compile all the archived photos, audio, and films. They even got Morris Fishbein on film. This is the creep who ran medicine for nearly 50 years. He destroyed many people, many companies, and the damage he did to the health care system of the time killed untold numbers of suffering humans. However, the Hoxsey affair was his downfall. He was forced to resign after libeling Hoxsey and eventually had to admit that Hoxsey was curing cancer. The section on Max Gerson was interesting, especially the deja vue section: they borrowed scenes from Dying to have Known. The scenes they used were the most powerful, the contraposed scenes of so-called medical experts proclaiming that no one has ever been cured of cancer at the Gerson clinic, juxtaposed with patients telling their story. Finally, you'll see some of the latest advances in alternative therapies, including a physician who is curing cancer with baking soda even after he's lost his license to practice medicine. For you history buffs, this is a must have. For you people looking for options outside of conventional medicine, this could save your life. It is very well done and well worth a watch. - David Bonello, International Wellness Directory

[Sreepathi Pai]

Dear Mayank,

I asked you sometime ago via private mail if you could explain in words simple enough to explain to a six-year old what cancer is.

You have never replied. I assume that's because you don't know what it is, nor can you explain it.

Thus, I do not know what makes you qualified to espouse nonsensical cancer cures (not that any qualifications are required to speak nonsense).

I guess everybody's getting onto the cancer bandwagon now ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMXLrRPoxic

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[Mayank Rungta]

Sreepathi I answered as many questions as I could at the time. I really don't know how to explain it to a 6 year old let alone someone seasoned (or is the word hardened) like you! :)

I am sharing the invite for those are interested. If you are not don't show up, simple aint it?

[deepakvrao]

Absolutely spot on Sree.

This and the anti vaccine crap really gets my goat. 5 hours on Google and everyone is an expert.

[Sreepathi Pai]

Dr. D, I don't even know why you bother with anti-vaxxers :) I think they're a part of an elite conspiracy from the developed nations to keep the underdeveloped nations unhealthy. It's always these foreign return chaps espousing them, isn't it ;)  ?

That said, this news article may confuse the heck out of cancer cure snake-oil peddlers and the anti-vaxxers:

http://time.com/103163/measles-vaccine-cures-woman-of-cancer/

@Mayank, explaining it to a six-year old is /much/ harder than explaining it to a trained scientist. It's equally frustrating and wonderfully enlightening to figure out exactly how much you know. Also, personally, I would love it if you used other social media (or even personal email, it's free you know) to broadcast your "invites" and spare us here. Get a blog man!

[deepakvrao]

I bother, because they are seriously conning guys into harming their kids. The morons who believe them deserve to get screwed, but their kids? and the public? 

[Mayank Rungta]

:) The same way google makes people experts on politics, urban infrastructure, etc, etc! :) Doc we will be screening stuff on vaccination also! :D

Like I said in the mail - save the views for the venue if you are coming. If you aren't this ain't the best place to discuss it, or is it?

I repeat yet again - "I am sharing the invite for those are interested. If you are not don't show up, simple aint it?"

[deepakvrao]

It's a bloody cycling forum. How the heck is this even related? Marking it as OT doesn't make it any more valid.

[Mayank Rungta]

@Mayank, explaining it to a six-year old is /much/ harder than explaining it to a trained scientist. It's equally frustrating and wonderfully enlightening to figure out exactly how much you know. Also, personally, I would love it if you used other social media (or even personal email, it's free you know) to broadcast your "invites" and spare us here. Get a blog man!

I will leave the explanation for the people with far higher experience to do it. Will they bother to explain it to you I am not sure. What is in it for them? :) Will you go on roof tops and advertise for them? They might as well help the people who go to them.

The broadcast has gone on all the fora and beyond. I shared it here for reasons already shared.

There will be the screening of Bitter Truth also in near future. Which is all about Sugar in the diet. Gatorade, cola, etc all go out of the window. I would leave it to the bikers to choose what they feel is right for them instead of deciding it for them - calling myself a _trained_scientist_ who have a history of changing stances BTW! :D

[Mayank Rungta]

Correct. If that was your pain point talk about that. How chit chatting about it with Sree on the forum qualify? :)

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:48 AM, deepakvrao <deepa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I bother, because they are seriously conning guys into harming their kids. The morons who believe them deserve to get screwed, but their kids? and the public? 

To be frank, I believe those morons underestimate the harm they're doing (no surprise, though). India is not a country that can afford them and their ilk.

That said, we have yet to see the full range of "alternate-reality" movements (usually originating in a certain prominent state in the US):

- Raw milk vs Pasteurized Milk

- Iodised salt vs Non-iodised Salt

etc.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[Mayank Rungta]

Like I said let the bikers decide what's good for them or god blessed you with their share of intellect also? :)

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I will leave the explanation for the people with far higher experience to do it. Will they bother to explain it to you I am not sure. What is in it for them? :) Will you go on roof tops and advertise for them? They might as well help the people who go to them.

So you're a snake-oil peddler/marketer?

Personally, I cannot imagine living a life so full of wilful ignorance. Not in this age. In the 16th century, maybe.

for them - calling myself a _trained_scientist_ who have a history of changing stances BTW! :D

You're a trained scientist? That's news, given your utter ignorance of even basic scientific stuff taught in school. Where were you trained?

Heck, you even misunderstood basic stuff from the China Story, a book you were espousing until recently. Even the authors of that book don't agree with your understanding of their own book.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[deepakvrao]

So, can I post about say, types of tiles, or maybe, laparoscopic surgery on this forum?

[Mayank Rungta]

I repeat are you claiming to be blessed with eveybody's share of intellect? :)

I am not a trained scientist. I just know that in one of the workshops on nutrition bikers were recommended to take coke to get a rush of energy. If what is being understood of late by some nutritionists is to be believed - how body is coping with it is something I believe everybody on the forum ought to know. I am sure they can decide for themselves. If you think otherwise so be it...

[Mayank Rungta]

Again if you respect the rule why are you discussing vaccination? :)

What bikers consume on their is considered to be the worst of the lot for the body by some. Whether the bikers agree with these people or not I leave it to them to decide. Or do you want to decide it on their behalf?

Sree and Doc are subject matter experts on nutrition. They know what is best for your body. If you agree with them please do not come to the film. The rest you are welcome! :)

[Sreepathi Pai]

Mayank, I want to draw your attention to the Drugs and Magic Remedies
Act of 1955.

http://www.medindia.net/indian_health_act/the-drugs-and-magic-remedies-act-1955.htm

Your advertisement for "cures" for a disease proscribed under that act
("cancer") may lead to legal action against you.

Until now most of your OT posts were okay (even when wrong), but you
seriously risk putting yourself in trouble with your recent cancer
posts.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[Mayank Rungta]

Thanks for bringing it to my notice Sreepathi. I will take that chance. You are assuming we are talking magic remedies I _assume_.

This is a 5000 people strong network. We have had a dozen events of Khula Manch and we haven't posted about any of those. The last screening Life Cycles was the only one posted. I took the liberty to this one as I know people consume a lot of stuff as they are told they need to as they are exerting so much. Now there is alternate advice which has worked for people. I think people should know.

Smoking causes lung cancer 1 in 6 people was not accepted for a very long time. Now it is imperative people know.

The films like Food Inc, Super Size Me, The Bitter Truth, etc are all in the pipeline. If people prefer not to be notified about such information I will respect it.

If I see a majority of people not keen on seeing such stuff I will respect that.

[deepakvrao]

You keep deviating from the topic.

What the eff does your subject have to do with cycling. Besides the fact that you are peddling crap, it's not even remotely related to cycling.

The 'rule' was broken by you, by posting the OT. So, you can, but we can't? We are not even posting. Just replying to your OT crap.

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for bringing it to my notice Sreepathi. I will take that chance. You
> are assuming we are talking magic remedies I _assume_.

No. Read that act carefully and consult a lawyer -- I am not one.

I'd hate to lose a biker to the law, esp. given the state of the
Indian justice system. Martyrdom isn't all that it is made out to be.

That said, that law was written in 1954/55! Wow! Guess preying on the
hapless isn't an internet-age phenomenon.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[Mayank Rungta]

Ok. I will read it at length and thanks for the concern. We are not advertising anything. The movie isn't banned and we are encouraging people to ask questions about such things. How can that be a bad thing? Isn't that the first step to a scientific reasoning - questioning?

There are several attempts to find a relation between nutrition and cancer. If it is to be called magic there should be studies proving that nutrition can't be linked to cancer. I am sure there is ample material that sways both ways which is why I want people to choose for themselves. I am nobody to decide for them. Are you?

Doc - if what bikers consume on their rides is harmful for them - then they ought to know about it. If it is not relevant then yes this is a breach. I put OT knowing what the likes of you will comment and not let this thread die (it is an event and it finishes tomorrow but something tells me this thread shall outlive it all). 

I am one of the moderators on this community (having added several members as a  part of the bike workshops) & I would be the last person wanting to flout the rules - spamming them. Since I am the original poster I will refrain from such posts in future if the audience on this forum find it not relevant.

peace,

mynk

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am one of the moderators on this community (having added several members
> as a part of the bike workshops) & I would be the last person wanting to
> flout the rules - spamming them. Since I am the original poster I will
> refrain from such posts in future if the audience on this forum find it not
> relevant.

As a moderator, you should resolve conflicts of interest in your
actions by yourself (or consulting with other mods), not resort to
populism to justify your actions.

As for what is "advertising", a judge gets to decide that, not you.
I've done my bit pointing it out to you -- use personal emails, blog,
etc.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[Mayank Rungta]

The intent is simple if after watching these films people consume a little less of stuff like coke and other questionable stuff is it going to hurt anybody but Coke's profits?

I think I took the relevant steps as a moderator. We also let people cross post on the FB group. I have said it earlier if the audience finds this irrelevant I will refrain. My previous posts have elicited further queries on nutrition to me. I am not the one to answer and I did like them to hear it themselves from where ever and choose for themselves.

Thanks again Sree for pointing it out.

Hoping I can have my dinner in peace now.

Thanks,
Mynk

[Sreepathi Pai]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com> wrote:
> The intent is simple if after watching these films people consume a little
> less of stuff like coke and other questionable stuff is it going to hurt
> anybody but Coke's profits?

I don't care about your rants on Coke. They're mostly amusing and
silly, but hardly illegal. I sometimes do wonder why you never target
Pepsi, though :)

I'm very specifically pointing out advertisements/working with people
who are *not* registered medical practictioners and are promoting
cures for cancer. Dr. VV (who we both know is not a medical doctor)
comes to mind. Under Indian law, this is *indeed* illegal.

> I have said it earlier if the audience finds this
> irrelevant I will refrain.

A mod should be above populism and self-policing.

--
Sreepathi Pai

[Mayank Rungta]

Interesting you have the interest in such petty things as a missing Pepsi! :)

Dr VV is not a doctor but nutrition is her forte. Her daughter is a trained nutritionist and with at least 2 decades of experience. When modern medicine fails people or they can't afford it, people try all kinds of magic treatments. Some ended up at THAC and they benefited. At THAC they don't want to get into the business of curing people (let alone advertise for curing Cancer). They have been around for 25 yrs and their focus is to get people to use the intuition that's long been buried under advertising! :) They want people to figure things on their own. I have maintained that if there is a connect between nutrition and cancer what these people are saying makes a lot of sense. If I do come across any person who has been cured of cancer by their treatment I will talk about it. I have only met people cured of chronic asthma and Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

As a mod I am waiting for a word and if I see one I will refrain from posting.

[Mayank Rungta]

Ok I as soon as I hit send I got a unicast requesting not to post such a message. I will not be posting on this thread anymore. If any of you are interested in any further discussion please unicast me.

I will refrain from posting any such material in future.

Thanks,
Mayank

[Venkatesh N]

Responding since you mentioned that you want to know 'if people find it irrelevant..'

Yes, highly irrelevant! Please refrain from posting such stuff. It'd be a big help. Thank you, Mayank!

[RT]

The first movie post was on point considering it was about cycling. 

This however I find irrelevant and I think should be kept off the boards. I shall refrain from expressing an opinion about the subject of it since that horse has been flayed beyond recognition but I think marking it OT doesn't really help. I can start posting stuff about everything from Chaucer to Chihuahuas by labeling it as such.

I'm also a tad surprised that you kept repeating that you were waiting for 'a word' or for the 'audience to find it irrelevant' and stuff like that. Leaving aside the fact that y'all sit on two sides of some intangible fence, Sreepathi and Doc D not qualify (as audience with words)?

[anil s kadsur]

Lol...

Yup. +1

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: deepakvrao <deepa...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 08:25:08 -0700 (PDT)

To: <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Mayank Rungta<mr....@gmail.com>; BBC<Bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Fwd: [OFF TOPIC] Cancer - "The Forbidden Cures" a Documentary by Massimo Mazzucco @ Cobalt, Church Street, 6:45PM, Tue 20-MAY-2014

[Mayank Rungta]

They do. And I had reason to believe there are people who believe otherwise. Like I said I got polite request to stop in a private mail and I did.

Any more discussion on this thread please unicast me unless you want your voice heard by all.

[Shankar Shastry]

Very very irrelevant. Regardless of your ability to convince people about magical abilities to cure diseases and your willingness to become an internet doctor, such discussions are unwelcome on a cycling forum. It has been a few years since you have been spamming the group and I'm sure you have access to many other social fora where such discussions might be welcome and discussed at length. Please take your dirty laundry elsewhere and spare this cycling mailing list. Just because you can mark something as OT doesn't mean you misuse the forum.

[anil s kadsur]

I was quite stressed, after reading 30+ replies feeling LOT better....good laugh, in fact I would say good abdomen exercise!!!

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: Shankar Shastry <shan...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 08:20:02 +0530

To: Mayank Rungta<mr....@gmail.com>

Cc: RT<rahul....@gmail.com>; BBC<Bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [BBC] Re: [OFF TOPIC] Cancer - "The Forbidden Cures" a Documentary by Massimo Mazzucco @ Cobalt, Church Street, 6:45PM, Tue 20-MAY-2014

[Opendro]

So, are you saying that abs exercise is still relevant to cycling?

[anil s kadsur]

'Core' is not an off topic....it is the key!!

Hehehe

very truly,
anil s kadsur
http://kadsur.blogspot.in/

---

From: Opendro <ope...@gmail.com>

Sender: bangalor...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 03:57:30 -0700 (PDT)

To: <bangalor...@googlegroups.com>

[Mayank Rungta]

Shankar,

I have already told this before. I have people from the group who have written to me about nutrition. This film being controversial and questioning the way medical fraternity works (why these cures are being rubbished without even being liked at) is not quite well received. And I stopped there. But looks like each one of you wants to voice it out! :-) some others won't let the thread for in peace...

Since we are at it. Please watch the trailer if Food Inc and let know if it qualifies as spam. There is no debate about that film I hope. No 'magic' cures and no non sense. Good nutrition vs bad. Here check -

Food Inc Official HD Trailer: http://youtu.be/Rjh5aZKgtSY

Just so that I understand what part of the cancer film bothers people more. The internet doctors (the film has doctors from modern medicine also by the way) or just that nutrition itself isn't relevant here.

I ask this coz I have questions being asked about nutrition in the bike workshops. I was advised to eat a lot of egg white by a senior cyclist if my calf muscles hurt. This advice is not a great advice if what some of the nutritionists are saying is true increases the load on digestion greatly. Now I don't want to pass info I am no longer sure about. Personally, I have figured by experimenting.

Should I be sharing info about it here? Gatorade vs lemon based health drinks or coconut water for that matter. Or if a few people agree Gatorade is better the rest don't get to choose?

I also ask this as there is another bike workshop coming up in June.

Thanks in advance,
Mayank

PS: The film has success stories of several patients with medical records which AMA was asked to check but they just wouldn't. These were called quacks and the treatment magic but was it for the right reason? The stress on the film is the lobby against such cures irrespective of how the cure has been successful or not. So please watch the film and then decide if it propogates magic cures...

[Karthick Gururaj]

I think the reason why your post got flagged down was not so much that it was OT (which it was, of course). But more because of questionable reasoning. Let me justify that statement in a little bit.. None of the following should come as a surprise to you, I'm sure you are familiar with most - if not all.

Please don't be offended. I have huge respect for you for different reasons - promoting cycling as a viable commute option, for instance.

Correlation doesn't imply causation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

You know this, right? Even if a "scientifically" conducted experiment proves correlation between A and B, it doesn't mean A causes B (or vice-versa). For example, let us say an experiment with a sufficient sample size without bias shows that: If you are a computer programmer, you are likely to be good at math. Presumably because they require a common skill - problem solving. But: To be good at math, can you try and become good at computer programming? Becoming better at programming - does it cause you to become better at math too? That is the important question.

Very important. If you are on trial for being a mathematician in the Supreme Court of Anti Mathematica (a country where math is a serious crime, but computer programming is not) - the prosecution has conclusively proven that you are indeed a programmer and then proceeds to say: "Good members of the Jury - we all know these cases. I have convicted 143 mathematicians so far, 141 of them were extremely good at programming...blah..blah". Your defense must jump up and say - "But correlation doesn't imply causation!". Of course, you'll still go ahead and lose the case, because the jury will base the decision on illogical emotional reasoning, and because your defense lawyer sounds like she likes math. But that is besides the point.

For some funny examples of strange correlated data, see: http://www.correlated.org/

The point is: even if "drinking coke" and "obesity" are correlated - it still doesn't mean "drinking coke" causes "obesity" (It might! But: It may not). Or maybe consider:

1. Pro-cyclists use cycles that cost > $5000 (I think!)

2. Pro-cyclists are extremely fast (as compared to other cyclists)

3. Most of > $5000 cycles are owned by pro-cyclists (let's assume this for now)

So - if we try to correlate "cyclists with bikes > $5000" and "cyclists who are extremely fast", you will see a very good correlation. But does one cause the other? Can I go "buy a cycle > $5000" and "become extremely fast"? No (just my guess, I haven't tried it out in real life).

There is also an other thing - of mixing cause and effect. After you have conclusively proven that A and B are correlated, and one likely leads to the other, which of the two is the cause?? A causes B or the other way around? If I rotate the direction a sun flower is facing, can I move the position of the sun? There is a nice old Tamil song that discusses more examples in detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rvNInoT6Sc Medicine is not above this - "Symptomatic treatment" in medicine is when the doctor treats the symptoms (effects) and not the cause. Possibly because the cause is not known or not treatable under known/approved practices. And good doctors understand that symptomatic treatment is to be used with caution - since it might make it harder to find out the cause.

The statements above assume the correlation has been established to start with - in a "scientifically" accepted experiment. But that itself is a topic of its own! We need to consider many many things: An acceptable sample size to allow us to extrapolate to the general population. Make sure there is no sample bias. A control group and experimental group division - to minimize effects of other variables on the out come (like placebo effect). Double (or triple) blind experiments to get rid of observer bias. An independent watchdog. So on..

And then, the experiment is repeated. And repeated. Until it is clear what is the cause and the effect. And how we can control the effect by modifying the cause. Because finally, that is what the whole game is about - to get a desired effect by changing something in the environment.

Of course - our doctors, phama industries, food regulators etc are not beyond greed and ineptitude. They can make the same mistakes as others in reasoning. They might not evaluate the "risk to benefit" ratio correctly in deciding a specific treatment. For instance, some claim that GM food poses a huge future risk vs the benefit it offers - the other group disagrees. But to say that the entire medical practice is a sham would be taking it too far (and that is just my opinion. I don't offer any data to back that claim).

All that said, what we as individuals do is entirely up to us. I think individuality and "personal freedom" trumps the need to be reasonable - so I should (as an individual) be allowed to be unreasonable (for those actions that affect only me). And discuss my choices in a larger group in a *relevant* context - as long as I don't give a false impression that my choice is backed by scientifically acceptable data. I guess we owe others that much.

So I can pray to Lord Ganesh (presumed cause) to get me good grade in a exam (desired effect) - even though I'm not aware of any scientifically acceptable experiment to prove this. Or I can stick to organic food (where I believe quite some evidence for organic is present now - and they also taste better). And I can petition against GM food. Or not drink Coke/Pepsi/Gatorade. Use food as medicine. Drink my own urine. Use homeopathy/Ayurveda for treating my ailments. Try to "play" the market (the stock market, I mean).

Sorry if this came about as being harsh, that wasn't the intent. If it gave you a pause to consider if your choices are informed ones - backed by data that has been collected in the aforementioned fashion, my purpose here is served. I don't think I'll be an influence on your choices over long term.

End of post.

- Karthick

[RT]

Lovely post Karthick - articulate and entertaining at the same time.

Mayank, I'm trying very hard to understand the link you are making between the cancer movie, the movie on nutrition and this forum meant for cycling. Let me take a stab at it though.

Cyclists require good nutrition ergo the movie on nutrition should be informative to them. And since the cancer movie promotes some cures based on nutrition it is therefore in the same class/league as the nutrition movie and so should also be of interest/relevance to cyclists. Also, the other correlation you seem to be drawing is between the medical/pharmaceutical industry and the food industry, therefore making the cancer movie relevant to cyclists apparently.

Is that about right?

IF that is what you're trying to say I think its wayyyyyy off base. The cancer movie specifies nutrition based cures for cancer. If it was nutrition which would help cyclists be healthy and go faster that would be a different thing entirely. Now the nutrition movie itself (and I'm only speaking form the trailer since I haven't watched the movie) simply talks about the big bad food industry and how it is making nutritious food inaccessible to consumers. This is with particular reference to the corn and meat industries in the US. Again, I'm not sure how it applies to cyclists in India and on this group. If its a general health awareness thing which you're referring to then fine but then there are plenty of other things in the world which fall into that category which could be equally relevant (or irrelevant) to cyclists. Also, considering the majority (going by my observation of this group over the last few years) of people here have spent north of 15k on bikes, accessories, et al, they hardly qualify as an economically marginalized community which can't afford to buy healthy food. 

Having said all that, the food movie was not the original post and is not the subject of this debate - the cancer move IS! 

So, bottom line, it is irrelevant on this forum unless you can point out how cycling causes cancer and how this movie will help cure it. 

[Chidambaran Subramanian]

http://9gag.com/gag/3948711/i-just-feel-so-irrelephant

Regards
Chiddu
http://vaccinerisks.wordpress.com

http://chiddu2k.wordpress.com

[deepakvrao]

Nicely put Karthick.

While there is a lot of unscientific stuff being propagated by a number of people, what got 'me' here is how OT the post was. 

[Mayank Rungta]

Thanks for the detailed mail Karthick and others. I am traveling to a Naturalist Training Program next 3 days. Will go through and respond to the mail.

Thanks,
Mayank

[Shankar Shastry]

Let me be very clear. It is not "a part" of "a cancer film". It is posting such unrelated spam, that bothers us. If you have something related to cycling, please share it here. Else, find an appropriate forum for it. I don't care if you have cancer yourself and were cured. This is still a cycling forum and that has no place here. And posting OT stuff over and over again for years on end is just downright stupid, as is trying to cover it up and saying it is remotely relevant by randomly talking about nutrition which is in no way related to your magic cure or whatever other name you call it.

Surely for a person like you who knows tons about everything, can you wrap your mind around this concept of relevance?

On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 7:07 AM, Mayank Rungta <mr....@gmail.com> wrote:

[T Ashok]

Karthick - Thank you for the link on  Correlation doesn't imply causation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

And enjoyed your analogy of the math and programming!

Cheers

Ashok