... But Charlie Duff's idea was interesting. What positive force can we distill from the boom years that we can apply to the current bust years that have followed? Back in the mid '00s, the city was actually growing, and it was at a faster pace than the suburbs. Was it just a temporary economic indulgence that had to end, feeding the short run at the expense of the long run? Was it just some fun while it lasted?
Inquiring minds want to know.
That's of course the $ million question. What is happening to our wealth. Why it seems to not be replenishing. And what this is doing to our cities. I'm no expert but I know one thing, not enough people are concerned with building real wealth as opposed to paper wealth. At some point our financial geniuses decided there was more money to be made in shuffling weath than making things. Manufacturing packed up and left in large numbers. Banking and finance proliferated. Politicians were bought off by the thousands to pave the way for this makeover of America. But today, not enough people are asking how we can generate true wealth. The big banks have almost written off the US as a place for growth and optimism. The real growth is expected to be in Asia and Africa.
In any case cities like Baltimore need to find ways to build their real wealth. One of those ways is urban agriculture. Detroit is doing it. I heard Baltimore has some too. Other ways to build the local economy is to rehab a building, ride a bike, plant a garden, or give someone a job. Too bad fishing in the Chesapeake is no longer creating much local wealth.
I heard something very disturbing tonight. I was talking to someone who said that she was in Harborplace after 9:30 on a weekend night recently. Thousands of young people descended into the area all of a sudden, intimidating, brawling, and assuaulting people on the street. She was accompanied by a policeman who advised her that no matter what, hold onto his hand and do not let go as they walked to the car 8 blocks away. She witnessed rampant street brawling and the many policemen trying to deal with it, many of them volunteering, perhaps because the city couldn't afford to pay enough policemen to handle the situation. It was basically mayhem and anarchy. She couldn't believe that there was no mention in the news. It's apparently being suppressed, according to her. Is there any truth to this? I had no idea this was going on. In that case, the city may be a lot sicker than I had thought.
Peter
Gerry, I don't see how Baltimore is "ready to take full advantage of the paper wealth syndrome." That's kind of a ridiculous statement.
Rule of law seems to be challenged from multiple directions in Baltimore, from the streets to City Hall. It's getting to be a Gotham City, except Gotham City didn't have riots breaking out every Friday and Saturday night. Batman, where are you?
As for urban agriculture, you are not the first person to slight its importance. I worked 9 years in the ag Industry back in Indiana. There, agriculture was the backbone of the economy. And that's probably why, on my return visit there this summer, people didn't seem to be suffering quite so bad as I am in Maryland. CAD, illustration and websites for architects and planners just isn't viable anymore, for me at least. Agriculture is a great buffer for hard times. People in Maryland don't look to the land quite like they do in Indiana. As for Detroit, I know for a fact they have some outstanding black loam right in the city, perfect for agriculture. Urban agriculture is one of those things that produces synergy in many areas at once. Everything about it pushes in the right direction. People are less in need of govt. handouts. It occupies their time, keeps them from getting depressed, puts food on their table, it may earn them some spending money. Gardening and farming have a powerful tug on people's motivation. I know a guy in Columbia who has a plot at the community garden and he's nuts about it. Sure, there are plenty of nonbelievers. But also many people who have never had a chance to discover their capacity to garden, and it could be anyone. Let's face it, it puts vacant land to use. Maybe landowners could be given tax relief for it. Now, will it add to the local GDP? Probably not in a big way. But there is a growing movement that says GDP is the wrong way to measure human development. We need to get away from measuring all progress with GDP. It's like Greenspan and interest rates. For years he and others were obsessed with managing the economy by setting the interest rates, with little or no regard for credit default swaps and mortgage backed securities, and the horrendously bad gimmicks made legal by the Commodity Futures Modernization Act:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
What a sham that was. Meanwhile, the fox were eating the chickens while American people slept.
I say bring on the urban farmers. Don't wait for Washington to throw some more paper wealth your way.
Peter
Ok, I'm ready for the onslaught of retorts.
All that sprawl is caused by our urban failures. Carroll Park shouldn't become a farm because it needs to become a great park to serve the thousands of people who should be moving to its edges but aren't because of dysfunctional urban policies.
I would be willing to defund or severely underfund virtually ever city service outside of police, prosecution, and schools to reduce property taxes.
All that sprawl is caused by our urban failures. Carroll Park shouldn't become a farm because it needs to become a great park to serve the thousands of people who should be moving to its edges but aren't because of dysfunctional urban policies.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jed Weeks
Sent: Aug 12, 2010 11:28 AM
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Housing Market
our social problems are caused by a toxic combination of ingrained, multi-generational self-hate, horrid community peer pressures, and a lack of self-esteem that borders on being psychotic. If we paid for a psychiatrist for every person at or below the poverty level in this city we might get somewhere.
In a perfect world, this would work. The problem with Baltimore is that we have 1 in 10 people addicted to drugs, a near-billion dollar drug black market, and generation after generation of children with no parents to speak of.I would be willing to defund or severely underfund virtually ever city service outside of police, prosecution, and schools to reduce property taxes.
I agree this has been an interesting discussion. I'm listening closely. I agree that there must be a bad dynamic going on with regard to taxes, driving people away from cities, with a double whammy so to speak because city resident face fewer jobs, more crime, and higher taxes. But urban redevelopment is where it's at, in my opinion. At the core of this whole problem are federal policies that have weakened local economies in my opinion. That opens the door to a much larger discussion. I'll just say briefly that I've been swayed by Hamilton's Curse, a book by Thomas DiLorenzo, a local history professor who specializes in economics:
http://mises.org/store/Hamiltons-Curse-P534.aspx
The recent financial Shenanigans date back at least to Alexander Hamilton. This book explains our entire history in terms of this schism between Hamilton and Jefferson. Hamilton's federalists pushed for ever greater federal control, and they won. Thomas Jefferson never wanted America to emulate European kingdoms, etc. DiLorenzo's explanation of the Federal Reserve is crystal clear and makes a strong case for the feds as the cause of our boom/bust economy, with a priveleged group of insiders who are always ready to extract personal gain, often with backroom sweeheart deals.
I'm not satisfied with the response in this group to my friend's complaint about mayhem at the Inner harbor so I think I'll post my comment to the EB group just to see what they say. So please forgive the cross post, those who are in both groups. I just really want to know. I think my friend was probably over reacting.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Neily" <geral...@gmail.com>
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:36:54 PM
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Housing Market
I'm not satisfied with the response in this group to my friend's complaint about mayhem at the Inner harbor so I think I'll post my comment to the EB group just to see what they say. So please forgive the cross post, those who are in both groups. I just really want to know. I think my friend was probably over reacting.
... DiLorenzo's explanation of the Federal Reserve is crystal clear and makes a strong case for the feds as the cause of our boom/bust economy, with a priveleged group of insiders who are always ready to extract personal gain, often with backroom sweeheart deals. ...
Even our alleged innovations are derived from the status quo. I get the feeling that Patrick Turner retained the silos at Silo Point just to maintain a charade that he wasn't actually building a new building at all. Ha ha. The joke's on us.Whew - maybe that's too much rant to glean from this discussion.
A personal side note - my wife's grandparents moved to Hanover, Pa. for exactly the reasons that you stated below. Recently her grandfather passed away, leaving her grandmother (who doesn't drive) completely stranded in a subdivision of ranchers in the middle of nowhere. She now laments ever moving up there. She spends her days watching television and getting fatter. She calls Hanover - "the place old Baltimoreans go to die".
-----Original Message-----
From: pto...@comcast.net
Sent: Aug 11, 2010 10:25 PM
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Housing Market
That's of course the $ million question. What is happening to our wealth. Why it seems to not be replenishing. And what this is doing to our cities. I'm no expert but I know one thing, not enough people are concerned with building real wealth as opposed to paper wealth. At some point our financial geniuses decided there was more money to be made in shuffling weath than making things. Manufacturing packed up and left in large numbers. Banking and finance proliferated. Politicians were bought off by the thousands to pave the way for this makeover of America. But today, not enough people are asking how we can generate true wealth. The big banks have almost written off the US as a place for growth and optimism. The real growth is expected to be in Asia and Africa.
In any case cities like Baltimore need to find ways to build their real wealth. One of those ways is urban agriculture. Detroit is doing it. I heard Baltimore has some too. Other ways to build the local economy is to rehab a building, ride a bike, plant a garden, or give someone a job. Too bad fishing in the Chesapeake is no longer creating much local wealth.
I heard something very disturbing tonight. I was talking to someone who said that she was in Harborplace after 9:30 on a weekend night recently. Thousands of young people descended into the area all of a sudden, intimidating, brawling, and assuaulting people on the street. She was accompanied by a policeman who advised her that no matter what, hold onto his hand and do not let go as they walked to the car 8 blocks away. She witnessed rampant street brawling and the many policemen trying to deal with it, many of them volunteering, perhaps because the city couldn't afford to pay enough policemen to handle the situation. It was basically mayhem and anarchy. She couldn't believe that there was no mention in the news. It's apparently being suppressed, according to her. Is there any truth to this? I had no idea this was going on. In that case, the city may be a lot sicker than I had thought.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Neily" <geral...@gmail.com>
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 5:53:42 PM
Subject: [BALTOmorrow] Housing Market
I agree that fixing the city's out-of-whack economy is job #1 and the city's property tax system is absurd. But that's not exactly my topic here...
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm glad you revived this discussion because its really at the heart of so many of our problems here. I also agree that agriculture on a large (or even moderate scale) is unlikely to work in Baltimore. But I am curious to see where Detroit goes with the idea. If we could get people in low income areas to eat some locally grown produce, that would not be a bad thing. But seeing farming as a solution for Baltimore's ills seems wrong headed. As to what sort of economy Baltimore should have, I would suggest we build on what is working right now - and that's the energy and investment being generated by our hospitals and universities. The days of Baltimoreans making steel or unloading cargo ships in large numbers is probably over (not sure that's a bad thing) but we may see more and more people developing pharmaceuticals and inventing new therapies for the sick and aged. We have the opportunity to build on the extraordinary investment that the Fed has put into Johns Hopkins (they get more federal funding for research than MIT)and the University of Maryland graduate campus. Baltimore is a growing mecca for medical research, bio-science, and all sorts of egghead stuff that I could never understand. FWIW, I think that's better than an industrial economy.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Nate <geto...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 23, 2010 4:37 PM
>To: BALTOmorrow <balto...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: [BALTOmorrow] Re: Housing Market
>
Nate,
I'm glad you revived this discussion because its really at the heart of so many of our problems here. I also agree that agriculture on a large (or even moderate scale) is unlikely to work in Baltimore. But I am curious to see where Detroit goes with the idea. If we could get people in low income areas to eat some locally grown produce, that would not be a bad thing. But seeing farming as a solution for Baltimore's ills seems wrong headed. As to what sort of economy Baltimore should have, I would suggest we build on what is working right now - and that's the energy and investment being generated by our hospitals and universities. The days of Baltimoreans making steel or unloading cargo ships in large numbers is probably over (not sure that's a bad thing) but we may see more and more people developing pharmaceuticals and inventing new therapies for the sick and aged. We have the opportunity to build on the extraordinary investment that the Fed has put into Johns Hopkins (they get more federal funding for research than MIT)and the University of Maryland graduate campus. Baltimore is a growing mecca for medical research, bio-science, and all sorts of egghead stuff that I could never understand. FWIW, I think that's better than an industrial economy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Youssef Mahmoud
Sent: Aug 24, 2010 10:08 AM
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Re: Housing Market
The amount of medical research done here is staggering, and we should all be thankful for it. But I don't want Baltimore to be an economic monoculture, or any type of monoculture for that matter. The city is in such bad shape in part because it had an economy that was almost solely based on manufacturing. When manufacturing went overseas, so did Baltimore's jobs. What happens when the government stops handing out research grants, or when healthcare is nationalized and the profit incentive for new treatments goes away, or when India's universities and private sector start doing world-class medical research at 1/3 the cost? Then we're right back where we started.Baltimore City needs all types of industries: healthcare, manufacturing, info-tech, financial, marketing, tourism, even vice (hopefully legalized). There is no magic bullet, and it's counterproductive to plan as if one exists. We have a financial business hub downtown. We have multiple medical research and treatment hubs in Hopkins and U of Md. We have a great port with the infrastructure to ship to significant inland markets. We have lots of abandoned [insert land-use type here] that can be restored or repurposed. A good road to recovery will incentivize the development of all of these resources.We must realize that there is no magic bullet to our housing market, either. People move to Baltimore from the suburbs for all sorts of reasons. People move to Baltimore from other cities for an overlapping, but not identical, set of reasons. Some people (myself included) move in for one set of reasons, and over time discover a host of previously unknown benefits of city life. And, of course, people move out for lots of reasons too. We need to get a good understanding of what compels people to come, stay, and leave before we can improve the demand for city housing.So, here's my attempt at a starter list of reasons (in no particular order) people move in and out:In from the suburbs:-to be closer to work-to be closer to the party scene (aka, no more drunken driving home from bars)-to live in a real neighborhood instead of a pod of housing units-to have transportation options other than a carIn from another city:-job or school brought them here-cheaper than former cityOut:-Crime-Schools-Property Tax (usually when renters decide they want to buy for the first time)I'm sure there are many that I'm missing. Point is, we know what makes our city great, and what still sucks about it. The simple truth is, we have to grow the good and stamp out the bad to attract residents and businesses. Which one drives the other? I think they both drive each other, and more importantly, I don't think it matters. If we make the city more attractive, both will come.I have one final note on that list of reasons people move out. Someone will probably mention that some people leave the city when it's time to "settle down," simply because you're supposed to do that in the suburbs. I think that mentality is fading fast, and is not something Baltimore needs to worry about. Right now, people flee the city for the suburbs when it's time to settle down because they don't want to send their kids to our crappy schools or let them play on our dangerous streets. The McMansion next to a 3 car garage on a half-acre lot at the end of a cal-de-sac, while alluring to some, is no longer the paragon of success, at least among my generation.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Richard Chambers <richard...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Nate,
I'm glad you revived this discussion because its really at the heart of so many of our problems here. I also agree that agriculture on a large (or even moderate scale) is unlikely to work in Baltimore. But I am curious to see where Detroit goes with the idea. If we could get people in low income areas to eat some locally grown produce, that would not be a bad thing. But seeing farming as a solution for Baltimore's ills seems wrong headed. As to what sort of economy Baltimore should have, I would suggest we build on what is working right now - and that's the energy and investment being generated by our hospitals and universities. The days of Baltimoreans making steel or unloading cargo ships in large numbers is probably over (not sure that's a bad thing) but we may see more and more people developing pharmaceuticals and inventing new therapies for the sick and aged. We have the opportunity to build on the extraordinary investment that the Fed has put into Johns Hopkins (they get more federal funding for research than MIT)and the University of Maryland graduate campus. Baltimore is a growing mecca for medical research, bio-science, and all sorts of egghead stuff that I could never understand. FWIW, I think that's better than an industrial economy.
.... Would it really be wrong for Baltimore to embrace "vice" and try to make it a genuine part of its economic development strategy? Maybe I've just seen too many John Waters movies, but I see the city's seedier side as a potential gold mine.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Hunt
Sent: Aug 24, 2010 11:48 AM
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Re: Housing Market
I have never understood Baltimore's presumption that you need to give vice the best location in town. That may be true for the highly competitive slots market but customers will easily find any legal houses of prostitution. Tell any cab driver that you want to find a transgended hooker and he will drive you right up to my neighborhood. Perhaps the city could charge a reasonable $10 per $100 tax rate on the bordellos, then buy some land and issue a RFP. I bet the high tax rate wouldn't discourage the entrepreneurial types that would surely respond. --- On Tue, 8/24/10, James Hunt <jamieh...@gmail.com> wrote: |
|
When I said vice, I wasn't just talking about gambling. In fact, I didn't even have gambling in mind. I was thinking more about my recent trip to California and my observations (yes, just observations) of their budding marijuana industry....We need economic diversity.
... I think Baltimore is different and could become a place where high tech, green business, pharma, bio-science, tourism AND vice can live together.
-----Original Message-----
From: James Hunt
Sent: Aug 24, 2010 12:06 PM
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Re: Housing Market
-----Original Message-----
From: Youssef Mahmoud
Sent: Aug 24, 2010 12:12 PM
To: balto...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [BALTOmorrow] Re: Housing Market
I think this vice discussion is important and should continue, but I was really hoping to get some feedback/discussion on the list of reasons that people come to and leave the city. Should I start a separate thread for that?
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:06 PM, James Hunt <jamieh...@gmail.com> wrote:
As I travel around the state, I am often asked what I believe will be the “next big thing”— the industry or piece of legislation that will provide the same sort of jumpstart the Financial Center Development Act did more than two decades ago. I think that is the wrong question to ask. Delaware should not be in the business of picking new industries to bet on, although we should be working closely with the ones already here, to help make them stronger. Now why is that? What is wrong with picking industries?
Even the best venture capitalists — those who make millions of dollars a year — make plenty of bad investments. Some people say that of every 10 investments made by good venture capitalists, seven will fail, two will do reasonably well, and one will be a grand slam. Those aren’t very good odds, especially if deciding who to fund is in the hands of government officials or others who are not highly trained and experienced.
There is another reason too: the dangers of the “follow the herd” mentality. Take biotech, for example. The biotechnology industry has huge potential. We have some terrific companies in Delaware that are likely to be very successful. Plus the state has done some good work to enhance their prospects of success — like creating the Delaware Biotech Institute and attracting groups like the Fraunhofer Center for Molecular Biotechnology. We should continue to nurture these types of enterprises.
But we need to be careful about placing too many eggs in the biotechnology basket, unless we find a unique niche where Delaware has a great chance of being more successful than other states. That is because other states also have biotech strategies and are pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into them. Some will be successful and some will not. The key for Delaware is to figure out our strengths, play aggressively to them, and avoid being a second-rate player in areas where others have a strong advantage.