Ignition Ploblem
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aus10
Oct 22, 2010, 2:52:34 AM10/22/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
Hi All
Am new to this forum, hoping to pick your brains...
I bought Kiran's old Pulsar 180 a few months ago. I have recently had
the engine done up - new rings, piston, some bearings replaced etc.
Since I got it back, there is a strange problem when I start her up -
it starts ok after one or two kicks, but there is always a popping
(almost like a backfire) coming out from the sparkplugs, with smoke as
well? It splutters like that about 4 or 5 times, and then all ok -
only happens when I start up, never while she is running.
I've got the NGK equivalent of the recommended plugs on there, and
have tightened them as much as I dare. The only place the smoke can be
coming through is the plug threads I guess, so I dont know if it is
worth trying something like threadtape on the plugs, or whether I
should look more at something like a timing issue?
Unfortunately the guy who did the bike doesnt even want to acknowledge
that there is a problem, so I dont trust going back to him - it might
end up even worse.
Any advise would be appreciated...
Andrew
Am new to this forum, hoping to pick your brains...
I bought Kiran's old Pulsar 180 a few months ago. I have recently had
the engine done up - new rings, piston, some bearings replaced etc.
Since I got it back, there is a strange problem when I start her up -
it starts ok after one or two kicks, but there is always a popping
(almost like a backfire) coming out from the sparkplugs, with smoke as
well? It splutters like that about 4 or 5 times, and then all ok -
only happens when I start up, never while she is running.
I've got the NGK equivalent of the recommended plugs on there, and
have tightened them as much as I dare. The only place the smoke can be
coming through is the plug threads I guess, so I dont know if it is
worth trying something like threadtape on the plugs, or whether I
should look more at something like a timing issue?
Unfortunately the guy who did the bike doesnt even want to acknowledge
that there is a problem, so I dont trust going back to him - it might
end up even worse.
Any advise would be appreciated...
Andrew
Stephen Sands
Oct 25, 2010, 8:09:15 AM10/25/10
to bajaj-ri...@googlegroups.com
Hi and welcome Andrew.
Firstly I would not put anything around the plugs, you will do more damage than good.
My initial thought on this, is that the plugs are not
fitting as they should and are allowing exhaust gas to escape. Then one the
motor heats up, the plugs expand and fill the gaps around the thread.
Does this happen if the
bike is warm, if you switch the bike off and then start it again one it has been running for a few minutes?
If not, then change the plugs to the factory recommended ones.
My 2c worth...
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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aus10
Oct 26, 2010, 7:54:31 AM10/26/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
Thanks for the advice Stephen.
It only does this when the engine has been off for a while, if the
engine is warm, the problem does not occur.
The plugs I've got on are NGK equivalent of recommended Champion type,
so should be OK.
Also what might be related to this is that it is difficult to start up
with electric starter, but only takes about two kicks to start up
(even when engine is cold). I seem to remember that the control module
adjusts timing settings to make kickstart easier - could this be a
clue that it may be related to the timing settings?
Thanks
Andrew
On Oct 25, 2:09 pm, Stephen Sands <sands...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi and welcome Andrew.
>
> Firstly I would not put anything around the plugs, you will do more damage
> than good.
>
> My initial thought on this, is that the plugs are not fitting as they should
> and are allowing exhaust gas to escape. Then one the motor heats up, the
> plugs expand and fill the gaps around the thread.
> Does this happen if the bike is warm, if you switch the bike off and then
> start it again one it has been running for a few minutes?
>
> If not, then change the plugs to the factory recommended ones.
>
> My 2c worth...
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> > bajaj-riders-r...@googlegroups.com<bajaj-riders-rsa%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
It only does this when the engine has been off for a while, if the
engine is warm, the problem does not occur.
The plugs I've got on are NGK equivalent of recommended Champion type,
so should be OK.
Also what might be related to this is that it is difficult to start up
with electric starter, but only takes about two kicks to start up
(even when engine is cold). I seem to remember that the control module
adjusts timing settings to make kickstart easier - could this be a
clue that it may be related to the timing settings?
Thanks
Andrew
On Oct 25, 2:09 pm, Stephen Sands <sands...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi and welcome Andrew.
>
> Firstly I would not put anything around the plugs, you will do more damage
> than good.
>
> My initial thought on this, is that the plugs are not fitting as they should
> and are allowing exhaust gas to escape. Then one the motor heats up, the
> plugs expand and fill the gaps around the thread.
> Does this happen if the bike is warm, if you switch the bike off and then
> start it again one it has been running for a few minutes?
>
> If not, then change the plugs to the factory recommended ones.
>
> My 2c worth...
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> > .
gre...@mobileemail.vodafonesa.co.za
Oct 27, 2010, 8:41:39 AM10/27/10
to Bajaj riders
I spoke to a mechanic who says that the battery is crucial on a bajaj. If you need to kick it is the battery flat. The popping sound coming out of the plugs is odd unless the thread is damaged. Thread tape won't work it is too hot. If it is damaged try and source e a 2nd hand head or possibly go the route of a helicoil. It can't be timing other wise it wouldn't run. Do yourself a favour and clean all the connecting plugs. They corrode badly on the pulsars. I took mine out and put conductive grease as mine wouldn't pull properly. 100 percent after that.
Probably a minor thing
Cheers
RGV (love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning)
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
Probably a minor thing
Cheers
RGV (love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning)
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
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aus10
Oct 27, 2010, 12:12:55 PM10/27/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
Thanks for all the advice.
Can I just ask (sorry if I'm a mechanical moron!), when you say "clean
all the connecting plugs" - what plugs are you referring to - any and
all electrical connectors?
Also a point of interest - the owners manual recommends the correct
spark plugs to use as Champion RG4HC / BOSCH UR3DC.
The local auto spares store only seems to stock NGK, and checked up
the equivalent as CR9EB plugs. Problem is this plug has a 'stud' type
connector, whereas my coil leads have fit the thread type connector. I
went and bought the CR9E plugs which have a thread type connector, but
the 'popping' and starting issues seemed pretty bad. I then took the
original 'stud' type plugs, ground down the connectors to a nice fit
for the leads, and the ignition problem seems much less !
Anyway, do any of you use NGK plugs, and if so which ones do you
recommend?
Cheers
Andrew
Can I just ask (sorry if I'm a mechanical moron!), when you say "clean
all the connecting plugs" - what plugs are you referring to - any and
all electrical connectors?
Also a point of interest - the owners manual recommends the correct
spark plugs to use as Champion RG4HC / BOSCH UR3DC.
The local auto spares store only seems to stock NGK, and checked up
the equivalent as CR9EB plugs. Problem is this plug has a 'stud' type
connector, whereas my coil leads have fit the thread type connector. I
went and bought the CR9E plugs which have a thread type connector, but
the 'popping' and starting issues seemed pretty bad. I then took the
original 'stud' type plugs, ground down the connectors to a nice fit
for the leads, and the ignition problem seems much less !
Anyway, do any of you use NGK plugs, and if so which ones do you
recommend?
Cheers
Andrew
gre...@mobileemail.vodafonesa.co.za
Oct 27, 2010, 12:57:11 PM10/27/10
to Bajaj riders
Inside the fairing is a whole lot of electrical connections. I found that they were badly corroded. I am not sure what plugs are in mine but I will check for you.
I use ngk in my rgv suzuki and they are fine. As long as the heat range is the same whether you have to screw on the cap of the plug or not should make no difference. All plugs have a thread on the side of the coil. You either use that cap or not.
I use ngk in my rgv suzuki and they are fine. As long as the heat range is the same whether you have to screw on the cap of the plug or not should make no difference. All plugs have a thread on the side of the coil. You either use that cap or not.
aus10
Nov 18, 2010, 2:36:41 AM11/18/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
Hi All
OK, as per previous posts, turned out there was nothing wrong with the
plugs, the sound was actually coming from head gasket leak. Took it
back to the mech who torcked it up a bit, and problem solved.
However, still having hell of a time trying to start it up. Electric
starter is impossible. She used to start up with one or two kicks, but
now even that does'nt work - only way to start now is with a
jumpstart.
Have done some testing:
There is visible spark from R/H plug, but no visible spark from L/H
plug.
tried swopping the coils around - R/H coil does produce spark when
connected in place of L/H coil, so I'm assuming that the coils
themselves are OK.
tried some tests with multimeter (very limited knowledge on this type
of thing). When turning over starter motor, voltage coming through on
wire which connects INTO coil seems much lower on R/H coil than L/H
coil.
Resistance on wire connecting INTO coils seems the same for R/H and L/
H coils , so I'm assuming wire is not worn and shorting out.
Based on these test, my assumption is that it must be the CDI unit
which has a problem.
Would you agree with this - can a CDI unit provide charge to one coil
but not the other, or is it a case of it either works or it fails
completely?
The CDI unit costs about R500 to replace, so it will be a costly
mistake to replace it unnecessarily.
Regards
Andrew
OK, as per previous posts, turned out there was nothing wrong with the
plugs, the sound was actually coming from head gasket leak. Took it
back to the mech who torcked it up a bit, and problem solved.
However, still having hell of a time trying to start it up. Electric
starter is impossible. She used to start up with one or two kicks, but
now even that does'nt work - only way to start now is with a
jumpstart.
Have done some testing:
There is visible spark from R/H plug, but no visible spark from L/H
plug.
tried swopping the coils around - R/H coil does produce spark when
connected in place of L/H coil, so I'm assuming that the coils
themselves are OK.
tried some tests with multimeter (very limited knowledge on this type
of thing). When turning over starter motor, voltage coming through on
wire which connects INTO coil seems much lower on R/H coil than L/H
coil.
Resistance on wire connecting INTO coils seems the same for R/H and L/
H coils , so I'm assuming wire is not worn and shorting out.
Based on these test, my assumption is that it must be the CDI unit
which has a problem.
Would you agree with this - can a CDI unit provide charge to one coil
but not the other, or is it a case of it either works or it fails
completely?
The CDI unit costs about R500 to replace, so it will be a costly
mistake to replace it unnecessarily.
Regards
Andrew
gre...@mobileemail.vodafonesa.co.za
Nov 19, 2010, 4:13:18 AM11/19/10
to Bajaj riders
Go back to basics
Remove both plugs and check one at a time.
Earth the plug against the cylinder head or barrel and kick it. If there is spark take the same plug and put it on the other lead. If it is the same fantastic. Take the other plug and test it to see if it is not faulty.
If one coil is not sparking you will see it immediately. Be careful jump starting bikes with electronic boxes. Could become costly.
Remember a pulsar has a small computer inside where the fairing is.
Make sure that none of your connectors are corroded, it also causes problems bike pulls lousy.
I removed the fairing as mine corroded. I used electrical conductive grease on all the connectors and she went like a bomb.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
-----Original Message-----
Remove both plugs and check one at a time.
Earth the plug against the cylinder head or barrel and kick it. If there is spark take the same plug and put it on the other lead. If it is the same fantastic. Take the other plug and test it to see if it is not faulty.
If one coil is not sparking you will see it immediately. Be careful jump starting bikes with electronic boxes. Could become costly.
Remember a pulsar has a small computer inside where the fairing is.
Make sure that none of your connectors are corroded, it also causes problems bike pulls lousy.
I removed the fairing as mine corroded. I used electrical conductive grease on all the connectors and she went like a bomb.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
-----Original Message-----
aus10
Nov 21, 2010, 9:16:49 AM11/21/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
OK have tested again by earthing plugs against engine and using
electric starter to test. There is visible spark on both plugs (r/h
seems a bit weaker, but its visible).
I've also tried bypassing the safety switch on clutch lever (I believe
its to force you to pull clutch before allowing it to start). I've
taken apart the carburator and tried cleaning the valves etc. Cant see
any connectors that look corroded.
still no joy, whether by electric or kick start. The only way to start
is by push-start. Once it runs , it seems to idle fine.
Racking my brains to figure out how you can have spark but no
ignition, but all ok once running? - doesnt make any sense.
After a while of testing, the starter motor would not disengage. Even
when turning off kill switch and ignition key, it still turns until
battery runs completely flat. Assuming therefore that the ignition
relay is cooked. I don't know if this could be the cause of the
starting problems - surely it would only affect the electric start but
not the kick-start? I'll try get a new one and see if there's any
difference.
I'm all out of ideas and ready to turn the bike into a coffee table.
Only option left is to take it in to a different mechanic (hopefully
one who accepts peanuts as payment because I've spent R2000 already
getting nowhere.)
Cheers
Andrew
electric starter to test. There is visible spark on both plugs (r/h
seems a bit weaker, but its visible).
I've also tried bypassing the safety switch on clutch lever (I believe
its to force you to pull clutch before allowing it to start). I've
taken apart the carburator and tried cleaning the valves etc. Cant see
any connectors that look corroded.
still no joy, whether by electric or kick start. The only way to start
is by push-start. Once it runs , it seems to idle fine.
Racking my brains to figure out how you can have spark but no
ignition, but all ok once running? - doesnt make any sense.
After a while of testing, the starter motor would not disengage. Even
when turning off kill switch and ignition key, it still turns until
battery runs completely flat. Assuming therefore that the ignition
relay is cooked. I don't know if this could be the cause of the
starting problems - surely it would only affect the electric start but
not the kick-start? I'll try get a new one and see if there's any
difference.
I'm all out of ideas and ready to turn the bike into a coffee table.
Only option left is to take it in to a different mechanic (hopefully
one who accepts peanuts as payment because I've spent R2000 already
getting nowhere.)
Cheers
Andrew
gre...@mobileemail.vodafonesa.co.za
Nov 21, 2010, 2:08:16 PM11/21/10
to Bajaj riders
Remember the pulsar only needs a battery for the needle to go to max revs and back and then to start it. If it doesn't then your dash light doesn't work and your rear light. If you push start it the magneto is responsible for your lights etc. The safety switch on the clutch is only if the bike is in gear. Kawasaki is different you have to pull the clutch in. If you push it do all the lights come on as I have never tried it.
My brain is a bit cooked as I have just finished racing bicycles for 2 days but I will phone a pulsar mechanic tomorrow and ask him.
My brain is a bit cooked as I have just finished racing bicycles for 2 days but I will phone a pulsar mechanic tomorrow and ask him.
aus10
Nov 22, 2010, 1:39:45 AM11/22/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
All the dash lights come on when I turn ignition switch to on , and
when engine is running all headlights etc are working, so no problem
with that side at all.
Thanks for your advise - you've gone out of your way to help. My brain
is a bit cooked too from kick starting all weekend! My plans to turn
the bike into a coffee table are going well, I'll post them here once
I've got them drawn out!
Cheers
Andrew
> ...
>
> read more »
when engine is running all headlights etc are working, so no problem
with that side at all.
Thanks for your advise - you've gone out of your way to help. My brain
is a bit cooked too from kick starting all weekend! My plans to turn
the bike into a coffee table are going well, I'll post them here once
I've got them drawn out!
Cheers
Andrew
>
> read more »
aus10
Dec 7, 2010, 1:43:17 PM12/7/10
to Bajaj Riders RSA
Hey All
Just an update on this seemingly endless saga.
I stopped in at a bike shop in Durban and decided to take a big risk -
bought a (nearly) new CDI box for R650. Plugged it into the bike just
before tech was about to go route of changing rings etc again, pushed
the starter button.... LIFTOFF !!
Looks like the CDI was cause of all the problems. It was a tough one
to diagnose because there was spark coming from the old CDI, I guess
just a lot weaker than what is needed, and seems only way to test is
to plug in a new CDI.
Bike is starting perfectly now, and all plans to turn it into a coffee
table have been scrapped!
Thanks for all the advise, hopefully all smooth running from now on.
Cheers
Andrew
> ...
>
> read more »
Just an update on this seemingly endless saga.
I stopped in at a bike shop in Durban and decided to take a big risk -
bought a (nearly) new CDI box for R650. Plugged it into the bike just
before tech was about to go route of changing rings etc again, pushed
the starter button.... LIFTOFF !!
Looks like the CDI was cause of all the problems. It was a tough one
to diagnose because there was spark coming from the old CDI, I guess
just a lot weaker than what is needed, and seems only way to test is
to plug in a new CDI.
Bike is starting perfectly now, and all plans to turn it into a coffee
table have been scrapped!
Thanks for all the advise, hopefully all smooth running from now on.
Cheers
Andrew
>
> read more »
gre...@mobileemail.vodafonesa.co.za
Dec 7, 2010, 2:21:07 PM12/7/10
to Bajaj riders
Glad you sorted it out
Cheers
RGV
Nothing like the smell of full synthetic 2 stroke on Sunday morning
Cheers
RGV
Nothing like the smell of full synthetic 2 stroke on Sunday morning
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