Power vs. Sail Boats

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wayne gramlich

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Oct 14, 2008, 2:21:06 PM10/14/08
to Bay Area Seasteaders Sailing Club
Sail boats are fun, but at this time of year in the Bay Area it may be
more prudent to learn how to operate a basic power boat, since the
water is cold. Just an alternative thought.

Mikolaj Habryn

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Oct 14, 2008, 4:08:04 PM10/14/08
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A sailing course will teach you to operate under power, unlike the
converse (although a power boat course would probably be a lot
shorter, granted). I didn't spend any time in the water whatsoever
whilst learning to sail, and I strongly encourage everyone to follow
my lead on that ;)

m.

Patri Friedman

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Oct 14, 2008, 4:15:38 PM10/14/08
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same here.
 
Wayne - the kind of sailing you were talking about w/ me earlier, where people get wet from leaning out over the edge, is called "hiking", and it is *not* the normal way to sail.  It is specifically for racing, particularly cats and light boats.  It is not needed for / included in regular keelboat sailing when you aren't racing:



m.



Peter C. McCluskey

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Oct 14, 2008, 4:24:06 PM10/14/08
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Power boats appear to be 2 to 3 times more expensive for a given size, so
I assume most people will be using sailboats for Ephemerisle.
The seasonal difference in water temperature isn't big, although it will
be more important to pick a day when the air isn't cold and the winds are
moderate. The water temperature is important mainly for small boats. Once
you get bigger than maybe 15-18 feet, I'd worry less about water temperature.
I'm guessing we should be interested mainly in sailboats in the 20 to 30
foot range.
I have some interest in refreshing my knowledge of sailing, but not in
learning about powerboats.
--
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Peter McCluskey | A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that
www.bayesianinvestor.com| everybody thinks he understands it - Jacques Monod

wayne gramlich

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Oct 15, 2008, 1:53:28 PM10/15/08
to Bay Area Seasteaders Sailing Club
I am by no means an expert sailer. I learned to sail at MIT in the
early 1980's in an MIT Tech Dinghy. This is a smallish boat that can
be capsized (I did so numerous times trying to learn how to jibe.)
Sailing a boat like that was definitely a summertime affair and upon
capsizing a very wet affair as well.

Larger keel boats are just about impossible to capsize, due to the
heavy ballast in the keel. Sailing is still requires people to be
topside, so cold wind an cold water spray are to be expected.
Personally, I would not sign up for a sailing class at this time of
year. It would not be very much fun for me, and sailing is meant to
be fun!

The reason why I mention power boats is because sailing skills vary
with the quality seas. I would have no problem sailing in a lake or
river. Sailing in the bay in calm weather I could handle. Sailing
along the coast or out in the deep blue is definitely a major jump in
sailing skill that I do not have.

If a seastead is located at the edge of the EEZ at 40 nm, a power boat
traveling at 10nm/hr could get there in 4 hours. A power boat could
start in the morning, visit the seastead, and come back all in one
day. A sailboat would probably take substantially longer. The skill
required to get a power boat out 40nm is much less than a sailboat.

A power boat can be operated in a cabin that is protected from both
the wind and water spray. At this time of year, signing up for a
power boat class would be something I could consider.

You should not assume that everybody will show up at Ephemerisle in a
sailboat.

I agree with Peter that power boats are boring (like driving around in
a parking lot.) Sailing is much more challenging and fun! I am just
trying to put a practical option on the table when i bring up power
boats.

Peter C. McCluskey

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Oct 15, 2008, 3:11:43 PM10/15/08
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wayne.gra...@gmail.com (wayne gramlich) writes:
>Larger keel boats are just about impossible to capsize, due to the
>heavy ballast in the keel. Sailing is still requires people to be
>topside, so cold wind an cold water spray are to be expected.

How much spray you get is very dependant on the wind (and to a much
lesser degree on the size of the boat). In a 10 knot wind, it's a
minor concern. I'd have modest concerns about sailing in a 25 knot wind
at this time of year unless you're experienced or wearing a wetsuit.
The good news is that light winds are more common at this time of
year, although that can also mean they're too light to sail at all.

>If a seastead is located at the edge of the EEZ at 40 nm, a power boat
>traveling at 10nm/hr could get there in 4 hours. A power boat could
>start in the morning, visit the seastead, and come back all in one
>day. A sailboat would probably take substantially longer. The skill
>required to get a power boat out 40nm is much less than a sailboat.

I've been assuming the main goal of a sailboat is to get to Ephemerisle
12 miles out or less. A commercial seastead farther out will probably
want a powerboat, but I would expect that one or two people would
specialize in operating that boat, and there's little reason to expect
the people currently on this list to specialize in that.

>You should not assume that everybody will show up at Ephemerisle in a
>sailboat.

I'm aiming to make Ephemerisle affordable. I assume that we should worry
less about people who can spend more to use a powerboat. I also assume
that anyone using a powerboat can wait til the last month to learn how,
but sailors need to spend more time learning and are more dependant on
waiting for days when the wind is appropriate.

wayne gramlich

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Oct 15, 2008, 4:06:07 PM10/15/08
to Bay Area Seasteaders Sailing Club


On Oct 15, 12:11 pm, "Peter C. McCluskey" <p...@rahul.net> wrote:
[snippage]

> >You should not assume that everybody will show up at Ephemerisle in a
> >sailboat.
>
> I'm aiming to make Ephemerisle affordable. I assume that we should worry
> less about people who can spend more to use a powerboat. I also assume
> that anyone using a powerboat can wait til the last month to learn how,
> but sailors need to spend more time learning and are more dependant on
> waiting for days when the wind is appropriate.

Agreed.
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