LMI -> EarthLink !?
butt...@shell8.ba.best.com
I wanted an independent, local ISP, did some research, and
lmi.net seemed like the best, so I signed up. Loved their
service, then all of a sudden I get a bill from EarthLink. Phoned
the number on the bill, and they say all of LMI's dial-up
accounts have been transferred to Earthlink! Said I should have
received an email about this, but I did not. I feel like I've
been "slammed" (isn't that the term when the phone companies
transfer your long distance provider?) Nobody at LMI's answering
the phone; broadcast msg when logging into their shell alludes to
the "post-LMI environment" -- shit, what happened? I feel betrayed.
So all I want is some minimal web space, lots of Usenet (ideally w/
Supernews), a single mailbox and a shell account, all accessible via
dialing in, with numbers local to the Mountain View area. What to do?
Dane Jasper
: So all I want is some minimal web space, lots of Usenet (ideally w/
: dialing in, with numbers local to the Mountain View area. What to do?
Sonic.net may be a good match for you. We host our own news server, plus
provide Supernews access to our customers.
--
Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
(707)522-1000
mailto:da...@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/
Key fingerprint = A5 D6 6E 16 D8 81 BA E9 CB BD A9 77 B3 AF 45 53
Don Bowers
gra...@calteg.org
> Dane Jasper <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
> : butt...@shell8.ba.best.com wrote:
> : : So all I want is some minimal web space, lots of Usenet (ideally w/
> : : Supernews), a single mailbox and a shell account, all accessible via
> : : dialing in, with numbers local to the Mountain View area. What to do?
> : Sonic.net may be a good match for you. We host our own news server, plus
> : provide Supernews access to our customers.
> : --
> : Dane Jasper Sonic.net, Inc.
> : (707)522-1000
> : mailto:da...@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/
> Never let be said that Dane missed a chance at self promotion
I'll start holding it against him when his ISP stops being the best I've
ever used, and/or when he stops being a contributing member of the USENET
community.
As it is, Sonic is fantastic and Dane contributes more helpful posts
than self-promotional posts. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with his
responses to people looking for a new ISP.
--
Graham Freeman
http://www.calteg.org/
John Navas
In <9q1pj9$1c51$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com> on Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:30:49 +0000
(UTC), <butt...@shell8.ba.best.com> wrote:
>So all I want is some minimal web space, lots of Usenet (ideally w/
>Supernews), a single mailbox and a shell account, all accessible via
>dialing in, with numbers local to the Mountain View area. What to do?
http://www.sonic.net/
Excellent!
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/>
CABLE MODEM/DSL GUIDE: <http://Cable-DSL.home.att.net/>
Dane Jasper
: Dane Jasper <da...@sonic.net> wrote:
: : butt...@shell8.ba.best.com wrote:
: : : So all I want is some minimal web space, lots of Usenet (ideally w/
: : : Supernews), a single mailbox and a shell account, all accessible via
: : : dialing in, with numbers local to the Mountain View area. What to do?
: : Sonic.net may be a good match for you. We host our own news server, plus
: : provide Supernews access to our customers.
: Never let be said that Dane missed a chance at self promotion
Just answering a need which is well matched, Don. This potential customer's
description of what he's looking for is very well matched up by what we
provide. I guess I could ignore these type of requests, but it seemed
appropriate in this case.
I try to balance promotion of our services with contribution to the group in
general and honest answers about issues that I have knowledge about. I'm
not a foaming at the mouth sales droid, I'm an individual with extensive
past exposure to the Bay Area Internet market (and it's consolidation), and
I think that I have worthwhile things to contribute to this forum.
I appreciate your feedback and thoughts, and I can assure you that I do
think of it when I participate here.
Mark Reinhold
>Just answering a need which is well matched, Don. This potential customer's
>description of what he's looking for is very well matched up by what we
I can only Hope. I had a cable modem in Antioch. I am on what used to
be Alameda Point Naval Air Station. ATT@home says someday, Pacbell
DSL says next month. So I sit here with dial up and wish.....
Mark
---
My Parole Officer says cigars help me stay calm
John Higdon
> I can only Hope. I had a cable modem in Antioch. I am on what used to
> be Alameda Point Naval Air Station. ATT@home says someday, Pacbell
> DSL says next month. So I sit here with dial up and wish.....
AT&T and its predecessors have been saying "someday" to San Jose for six
years now.
If I had to put my stock in AT&T or PacBell at this point, I think I would
expect PacBell to deliver first.
--
John Higdon | Email Address Valid | http://www.anntec.com/
+1 408 264 4115 | Silicon Valley, CA | FAX: +1 408 264 4407
Cheap, provincial San Franciscans can call: 415 428-COWS
Dane Jasper
: I can only Hope. I had a cable modem in Antioch. I am on what used to
: be Alameda Point Naval Air Station. ATT@home says someday, Pacbell
: DSL says next month. So I sit here with dial up and wish.....
Be careful that you don't end up with PBI service if you don't want it.
Note that a variety of ISPs are available on top of PacBell DSL, but they
may not tell you that.
s...@cs.berkeley.edu
> I can only Hope. I had a cable modem in Antioch. I am on what
> used to be Alameda Point Naval Air Station. ATT@home says
> someday, Pacbell DSL says next month. So I sit here with dial up
> and wish.....
One question:
By the phrase "next month", am I correct in assuming that
when you entered you phone number into pacbell's DSL availability
checker, you were told DSL was not available, but when
you called them they said something to the effect it would
be available "next month"?
If this is the case, you may want to keep looking around
for options...
Steve
Lynn
>
> I wanted an independent, local ISP, did some research, and
> lmi.net seemed like the best, so I signed up. Loved their
> service, then all of a sudden I get a bill from EarthLink.
>
> Supernews), a single mailbox and a shell account, all accessible via
> dialing in, with numbers local to the Mountain View area. What to do?
They sent out e-mail. They even offered to keep their dial-up customers who
didn't want to be sold to Earthlink. Sounded great to me, since I'd had no
complaints for two years. Two weeks later, they dumped SuperNews, for RMI's
(or IC&C's) crappy news service. I wouldn't have cared about losing LMI
that much except for my website; I got my own domain so I won't have to
go through that again.
I'm looking through all the local ISP's I can find right now to find another
SuperNews client. I just need to wait until the traffic from my old site
dies down, then I'm outta there. I always got good service from LMI, but my
previous ISP had been sold to MindSpring, and I didn't want to go through
that again.
--
Lynn
http://www.lynnsland.com
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~
Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes
genius... -Arthur Conan Doyle, "The Valley of Fear"
============================================================================
John Navas
In <3bca1...@excalibur.gbmtech.net> on Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:43:08
-0700, "Lynn" <rameses....@MailOps.compound> wrote:
>I'm looking through all the local ISP's I can find right now to find another
>SuperNews client.
Sonic.net -- both internal news and SuperNews. Excellent.
Lynn
>
> [POSTED TO ba.internet - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
Put in a phony address - or no address.
> "Lynn" <rameses....@MailOps.compound> wrote:
>
> >I'm looking through all the local ISP's I can find right now to find
> >another SuperNews client.
>
> Sonic.net -- both internal news and SuperNews. Excellent.
I looked at them. You have to pay quarterly from what I can see, and I
couldn't find a list of phone numbers. I'm from the old school (90s) -
never pay in advance when you clearly don't have to everywhere else.
Anybody know why, when I look up their news server in DNS lookup, it doesn't
resolve to SN? I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
Netgate stands out - not only do they have SuperNews, but Clarinet as well.
They've been around a lot of years, though, so if they haven't already, they
may be ripe for purchase. That's when my service always seems to fall down.
Anybody use Surfbest? The service is only $13.00/mo. I'm already
subscribed to MailOps mail and news as a backup newsserver. They're
switching to a full peering feed with UUnet this week (so they say), and if
that works out, maybe the SuperNews connection might not be so high on the
list of requirements.
John Navas
In <3bcb0...@excalibur.gbmtech.net> on Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:35:48
-0700, "Lynn" <rameses....@MailOps.compound> wrote:
>"John Navas" <spamf...@navasgroup.com> wrote...
>> Sonic.net -- both internal news and SuperNews. Excellent.
>
>I looked at them. You have to pay quarterly from what I can see, and I
>couldn't find a list of phone numbers.
Currently, the list of local numbers is available only to subscribers.
Your best bet is to call Support. You'll be pleasantly surprised to
find that you'll quickly get through to a live, competent person.
>I'm from the old school (90s) -
>never pay in advance when you clearly don't have to everywhere else.
Sonic is from the old school where you stay in business by following
prudent business policies. (Other ISPs have of course been going out of
business at a rapid clip.) But there really is no risk, since Sonic
guarantees satisfaction:
If you are not satisfied with the service within 30 days of the
activation date of your account, all fees will be refunded upon
cancellation.
>Anybody know why, when I look up their news server in DNS lookup, it doesn't
>resolve to SN? I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
> nslookup news.sonic.net
Server: ns2.sonic.net
Address: 208.201.224.33
Name: typhoon.sonic.net
Address: 208.201.224.154
Aliases: news.sonic.net
***
10/15/01 09:54:54 IP block 208.201.224.33
Trying 208.201.224.33 at ARIN
Trying 208.201.224 at ARIN
UUNET Technologies, Inc. (NETBLK-UUNET1996B) UUNET1996B
208.192.0.0 - 208.255.255.255
Sonoma Interconnect (NETBLK-UU-208-201-224) UU-208-201-224
208.201.224.0 - 208.201.255.255
Sonic.net Backbone (NETBLK-SNIC-208-201-224-000) SNIC-208-201-224-000
208.201.224.0 - 208.201.224.255
Dane Jasper
: I looked at them. You have to pay quarterly from what I can see, and I
: couldn't find a list of phone numbers. I'm from the old school (90s) -
: never pay in advance when you clearly don't have to everywhere else.
You can pay monthly if you'd like - we prefer quarterly to keep our billing
costs down, but allow customers to select any period from one to 12 months
at a time. If you opt for 12 months, we offer a discount, bringing the
monthly down to $17.05.
While payment in advance for at least one month at $18.95 is required, we
offer a thirty day money back guarentee.
: Anybody know why, when I look up their news server in DNS lookup, it doesn't
: resolve to SN? I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
We have both our own news server at news.sonic.net, plus we offer Supernews
at supernews.sonic.net. This allows us to admin our own news server which
has great retention for text groups and about two to three days for
binaries, and which hosts local sonic.* discussion groups. These groups are
an important part of our ISP culture.
The Supernews service is a great backup for customers who want longer binary
retention, and we've recently upgraded the speed per stream to 512kbps to
make this more useful for DSL connected customers.
snevel...@sonic.net
> Anybody know why, when I look up their news server in DNS lookup, it doesn't
> resolve to SN? I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
Sonic.net runs it's own *extremely* capable news server. In addition they
take a feed feed from SuperNews and sonic customers have direct (albeit
bandwidth limited) access to a supernews server; supernews.sonic.net
Simeon
--
The address in the header *is* actually replyable.
If replying, use mail or post here. Please, not both
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention
Dane Jasper
: Sonic.net runs it's own *extremely* capable news server. In addition they
: take a feed feed from SuperNews and sonic customers have direct (albeit
: bandwidth limited) access to a supernews server; supernews.sonic.net
FYI, we recently raised the bandwidth caps from 128kbps up to 512kbps to
better serve DSL customers.
Joseph Morlan
>Sonic.net runs it's own *extremely* capable news server.
Does the sonic.net server peer with supernews? Does it have the
completeness, retention and speed of supernews? If not, how is it
"capable."
>In addition they
>take a feed feed from SuperNews and sonic customers have direct (albeit
>bandwidth limited) access to a supernews server; supernews.sonic.net
Is that an alias for corp.supernews.com? What's the speed cap per
connection? How many simultaneous connections does it allow?
snevel...@sonic.net
> snevel...@sonic.net wrote:
> : Sonic.net runs it's own *extremely* capable news server. In addition they
> : take a feed feed from SuperNews and sonic customers have direct (albeit
> : bandwidth limited) access to a supernews server; supernews.sonic.net
> FYI, we recently raised the bandwidth caps from 128kbps up to 512kbps to
> better serve DSL customers.
I knew that, but couldn't remember if it had been raised to 256 or 512 and
didn't want to mis-speak.
S
snevel...@sonic.net
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:35:40 GMT, snevel...@sonic.net wrote:
>>Sonic.net runs it's own *extremely* capable news server.
> Does the sonic.net server peer with supernews?
Someone from sonic will have to give you a definitive answer, but I
believe that sonic does peer with supernews.
> Does it have the completeness, retention and speed of supernews? If
> not, how is it "capable."
Capable relative to other ISP's news-servers I have used.
Text retention is at least several weeks. Binary groups last a couple of
days. News is *always* up and available. All the text groups I follow
are complete (I never notice missing articles i.e. responses to articles I
never saw). The actual server is a monster. Again, someone from sonic
will have to provide the specificd details.
>>In addition they
>>take a feed feed from SuperNews and sonic customers have direct (albeit
>>bandwidth limited) access to a supernews server; supernews.sonic.net
> Is that an alias for corp.supernews.com?
I have no idea.
> What's the speed cap per
> connection?
As Sonic's CEO, Dane Jasper, posted in this thread, the speed cap was
recently lifted from 128kbps to 512kbps.
> How many simultaneous connections does it allow?
Well, I believe that sonic pays for 20(?) streams at 512kpbs each that are
shared among all of sonic's users. I don't know if there's anything in
the AUP about a single customer opening multiple connections to supernews.
Barry Twycross
<rameses....@MailOps.compound> wrote:
> > Sonic.net -- both internal news and SuperNews. Excellent.
>
> I looked at them. You have to pay quarterly from what I can see, and I
> couldn't find a list of phone numbers.
Sonic have a POP finder tool, not a list of numbers, they claim to
cover the whole of California and have access nationwide for a fee.
> Netgate stands out - not only do they have SuperNews, but Clarinet as well.
> They've been around a lot of years, though, so if they haven't already, they
> may be ripe for purchase. That's when my service always seems to fall down.
Netgate is an excellent ISP, they seem to be more into hosting than
acesss so no DSL. I had to go to Sonic for that. I prefer the News at
Sonic.
The vogue for ISP takeovers seems to be over, both Netgate and Sonic
seem resistant to takeover anyway.
--
Barry
Ba...@netbox.com <http://www.netbox.com/barry>
------
(I should put something down here).
gra...@calteg.org
> Sonic have a POP finder tool, not a list of numbers, they claim to
> cover the whole of California and have access nationwide for a fee.
I used their nationwide roaming option when I attended the USENIX Tech
Conference in Boston this year. It worked better than I expected - no
noticeable latency or authentication problems. The wireless network
the USENIX folks set up didn't reach 20+ floors up to my hotel room, so
I had to resort to 56K dialup.
Tim Pozar
Ya... When I checked into the Marriot they gave me a room on the
7th floor. I grumbled a bit as I thought I would try to hit some
open APs out in Boston, but then I found that with a 5dB external
antenna laying on the outside window I could hit the USENIX deployed
APs. I was in hog heaven connecting to the net at DS1 speeds in my
room.
Tim
--
Snail: Tim Pozar / LNS / 1978 45th Ave / San Francisco CA 94116 / USA
POTS: +1 415 665 3790 Radio: KC6GNJ / KAE6247
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
- Andrew Jackson
"What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out,
which is the exact opposite." - Bertrand Russell, "Skeptical_Essays"
Lynn
>
> >I'm from the old school (90s) -
> >never pay in advance when you clearly don't have to everywhere else.
> >
>
> Sonic is from the old school where you stay in business by following
> prudent business policies.
I don't argue that billing for three months is more efficient than one - but
the discount isn't enough to make having one large charge to my account
preferable to three little ones. Personal preference.
> >Anybody know why, when I look up their news server in DNS lookup, it
> >doesn't resolve to SN? I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
>
> > nslookup news.sonic.net
> Server: ns2.sonic.net
> Address: 208.201.224.33
>
> Name: typhoon.sonic.net
> Address: 208.201.224.154
> Aliases: news.sonic.net
Yeah, I got all that. What I was looking for was: typhoon.sonic.net;
207.126.101.100; corp. SuperNews. I thought I saw Sonicnet in here saying
they used SN. I like SN for their filters, especially misplaced binaries.
As soon as I lost them, I saw what a difference a little focus on spam can
make. That's why I'm looking for a new ISP that uses them.
BTW - local ISP's whose news servers resolve to SN that I've found so far:
Netgate; PCWeb; South Valley (their news server is news.garlic.com - I
thought that was cool); ZNet; Hypersurf; Saber; Transbay (East bay, I think,
since I have "out of area" scribbled next to it); TSoft says so on their
website, but I don't think I was able to confirm it; BayNet, and Nothing but
(Net??? can't read my writing).
I don't know anything about any of them, so this isn't an endorsement.
John Navas
In <3bcc5...@excalibur.gbmtech.net> on Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:55:10
-0700, "Lynn" <rameses....@MailOps.compound> wrote:
>> -0700, "Lynn" <rameses....@MailOps.compound> wrote:
>"John Navas" <spamf...@navasgroup.com> wrote...
>> >Anybody know why, when I look up their news server in DNS lookup, it
>> >doesn't resolve to SN? I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.
>>
>> > nslookup news.sonic.net
>> Server: ns2.sonic.net
>> Address: 208.201.224.33
>>
>> Name: typhoon.sonic.net
>> Address: 208.201.224.154
>> Aliases: news.sonic.net
>
>Yeah, I got all that. What I was looking for was: typhoon.sonic.net;
>207.126.101.100; corp. SuperNews. I thought I saw Sonicnet in here saying
>they used SN. I like SN for their filters, especially misplaced binaries.
>As soon as I lost them, I saw what a difference a little focus on spam can
>make. That's why I'm looking for a new ISP that uses them.
Sonic.net has *both* its own internal news server (news.sonic.net),
which is excellent for text, and outsourced Supernews
(supernews.sonic.net).
Dane Jasper
: "John Navas" <spamf...@navasgroup.com> wrote...
:> Sonic is from the old school where you stay in business by following
:> prudent business policies.
: I don't argue that billing for three months is more efficient than one -
: but the discount isn't enough to make having one large charge to my
: account preferable to three little ones. Personal preference.
We prefer quarterly to keep billing overhead and bank transaction costs to a
minimum, but you are welcome to opt for monthly - speak with our staff at
888-SONIC-33 (daytimes) or 707-547-3400 (eve/weekend - local numbers also
available on the website under "Find Local Dialups").
: Yeah, I got all that. What I was looking for was: typhoon.sonic.net;
: 207.126.101.100; corp. SuperNews. I thought I saw Sonicnet in here saying
: they used SN. I like SN for their filters, especially misplaced binaries.
: As soon as I lost them, I saw what a difference a little focus on spam can
: make. That's why I'm looking for a new ISP that uses them.
Our outsourced news is at supernews.sonic.net, FYI.
Note also that we do filter for spam and misplaced binaries on our own
locally hosted Usenet server too.
Dane Jasper
Someone else wrote:
:> How many simultaneous connections does it allow?
: Well, I believe that sonic pays for 20(?) streams at 512kpbs each that are
: shared among all of sonic's users. I don't know if there's anything in
: the AUP about a single customer opening multiple connections to supernews.
We recently raised the number of streams we've got available, but as ask
that customers only open one at a time.
Dane Jasper
: Sonic have a POP finder tool, not a list of numbers, they claim to
: cover the whole of California and have access nationwide for a fee.
FYI, a full list is available at:
http://www.sonic.net/sales/national/allpops/
We'll get this linked into our "Pop Finder" page so that it's easier to
find. Note that CA statewide dialup is included in our basic offering.
Roaming service outside CA is currently an additional $3/mo fee.
Lynn
>
> Our outsourced news is at supernews.sonic.net, FYI.
>
> Note also that we do filter for spam and misplaced binaries on our own
> locally hosted Usenet server too.
Thank you; that's what I wanted to know.
butt...@shell8.ba.best.com
> <butt...@shell8.ba.best.com> wrote...
>>
>> I wanted an independent, local ISP, did some research, and
>> lmi.net seemed like the best, so I signed up. Loved their
>> service, then all of a sudden I get a bill from EarthLink.
>>
> didn't want to be sold to Earthlink. Sounded great to me, since I'd had no
> complaints for two years.
So Earthlink said - but I never received it.
Philip J. Koenig
(butt...@shell8.ba.best.com) writes...
Something very curious about all that. I went to their webpage
yesterday and noted on the front page, something to the effect
of "We're back!".
Little expansion of what that was all about, except on the "News"
page, where an entry in september talks about how they had temporarily
"lost" the lanminds.com domain (was taken over by Earthlink), got
it back, and then "lost" it to them permanently. They are telling
customers to change all the hostnames domain portion to "lmi.net"
now, or else email will bounce, etc.
Very strange. This is what I know: sometime last year they
"merged" (ie were sold to) this outfit called RMI.NET in Colorado.
They blushed on their webpage about how this didn't mean there would
be any significant changes (yeah right, can you say Deja Vu, all
you ISP merger veterans?) and they were just going to benefit from
the wonderful largesse of their new sugar-daddy.
Lo-and-behold, if you try to load WWW.RMI.NET, you are now directed
to Earthlink's homepage.
My conclusion is this: RMI.NET sold themselves to Earthlink
lock/stock/barrel, without informing puny little LMI of their
intentions. Some mavericks at LMI tried to opt-out and rescue
themselves from the jaws of Earthlink, but there were legal issues,
etc. I note that DSL services are now conspicuously absent from
LMI's list of services page, so I presume that RMI at the least
sold the DSL customerbase to Earthlink. LMI's service page claims
to still offer dialup services however.
Historical note: Back when I was considering using or recommending
them to clients, I do remember mentioning to one of the reps or
even possibly one of the founders, about how an ISP like LMI was
just the kind that bigger, stupider companies love to absorb.
They of course poo-pooed this possibility, ensuring me that LMI
was in it for the long-haul, yadda yadda. MM-hmm.
--
Philip J. Koenig The Electric Kahuna Organization [anti-spammed]
----------------Computers & Communications for the New Millennium-------------
* To send email, remove numbers and spaces: pjkunet64 @ ekahuna27 . com *
* Email Blacklists: stop using innocent users as pawns. *
* Simple answers are for simple minds. Try a new way of looking at things. *
Richard Steinfeld
"Philip J. Koenig" said on 11/1:
> Something very curious about all that. I went to their webpage
> yesterday and noted on the front page, something to the effect
> of "We're back!".
>
A few months ago amidst the confusion about LMI customers (myself included)
were being "sold" to earthlink by parent IC&C, I had a chat with one of
LMI's sales people; he said to look for something starting up by the name of
"Locrian." Well, here it is: LMI is now a division of Locrian.
> Very strange. This is what I know: sometime last year they
> "merged" (ie were sold to) this outfit called RMI.NET in Colorado.
> They blushed on their webpage about how this didn't mean there would
> be any significant changes (yeah right, can you say Deja Vu, all
> you ISP merger veterans?) and they were just going to benefit from
> the wonderful largesse of their new sugar-daddy.
The great corporate idea (after buying up a few smaller fish) was suddenly
to dump all residential customers and other dial-up vermin, and concentrate
squarely on business customers. >
> Lo-and-behold, if you try to load WWW.RMI.NET, you are now directed
> to Earthlink's homepage.
>
> My conclusion is this: RMI.NET sold themselves to Earthlink
> lock/stock/barrel, without informing puny little LMI of their
> intentions. Some mavericks at LMI tried to opt-out and rescue
> themselves from the jaws of Earthlink, but there were legal issues,
> etc.
Well, sort of. But you missed one act of the play: RMI (who bought LMI) was
gobbled up by IC&C. And hey, guess what: IC&C is bankrupt! That's what
you'll find on IC&C's site. Sure didn't take long. Couldn't have happened to
a more deserving bunch of guys (except, of course, SBC).
I note that DSL services are now conspicuously absent from
> LMI's list of services page, so I presume that RMI at the least
> sold the DSL customerbase to Earthlink. LMI's service page claims
> to still offer dialup services however.
>
Actually, as of today, DSL is on their site.
> Historical note: Back when I was considering using or recommending
> them to clients, I do remember mentioning to one of the reps or
> even possibly one of the founders, about how an ISP like LMI was
> just the kind that bigger, stupider companies love to absorb.
> They of course poo-pooed this possibility, ensuring me that LMI
> was in it for the long-haul, yadda yadda. MM-hmm.
>
Phillip, tell me it isn't true. What are the signs of an ISP that are ripe
for takeovers. I'm truly weary of being the customer riding the tail of the
dysfunctional dog. I'm now with Sonic, and I'd like for them to stay put for
me. Will they?
Richard
Philip J. Koenig
Steinfeld) writes...
> "Philip J. Koenig" said on 11/1:
> > Historical note: Back when I was considering using or recommending
> > them to clients, I do remember mentioning to one of the reps or
> > even possibly one of the founders, about how an ISP like LMI was
> > just the kind that bigger, stupider companies love to absorb.
> > They of course poo-pooed this possibility, ensuring me that LMI
> > was in it for the long-haul, yadda yadda. MM-hmm.
> >
> Phillip, tell me it isn't true. What are the signs of an ISP that are ripe
> for takeovers. I'm truly weary of being the customer riding the tail of the
> dysfunctional dog. I'm now with Sonic, and I'd like for them to stay put for
> me. Will they?
In my experience, the takeover targets are usually "midsized"
regional ISPs that aren't so small they run all day and can't
keep up, and aren't too big they've become either influential
powerhouses or ponderous gorillas that can't do anything right.
Most ISPs that seem to be gobbled up have either just recently
started making money or are on the verge, many have reasonably
good reputations, loyal customer base. In many cases the owners
just get tired of the grind, the long hours, and the very real
possibility that their "window of opportunity" is rapidly closing
as the giants (ie SBC/Pacbell, AOL, Earthlink, ATT) make it
increasingly hard to draw customers. Reputedly, many are highly
leveraged financially, and are looking for a way out.
Sonic's story, to hear Dane tell it, is that A) they are in it
for the long haul (same story everyone else says) B) they have
almost no debt (rather unusual), C) they are making money and
growing just fine without outside involvement. (relatively
uncommon)
Sonic also has the advantage of relatively few local competitors.
Granted they are setting their sights beyond Sonoma County these
days (ie their change from "Sonoma Interconnect" to "Sonic") but
those local customers may represent their stable bread-and-butter
that many ISPs in fiercely competitive Silly Valley don't have.
(Not to mention, I have a funny feeling Sonoma consumers have a
little less blind allegiance to big corporate entities than a lot
of other places, and that would benefit Sonic)
So I dunno. So far so good. Sonic could be in their "golden"
period right now. We shall see.
Dane Jasper
: Sonic's story, to hear Dane tell it, is that A) they are in it
: for the long haul (same story everyone else says) B) they have
: almost no debt (rather unusual), C) they are making money and
: growing just fine without outside involvement. (relatively
: uncommon)
: Sonic also has the advantage of relatively few local competitors.
: Granted they are setting their sights beyond Sonoma County these
: days (ie their change from "Sonoma Interconnect" to "Sonic") but
: those local customers may represent their stable bread-and-butter
: that many ISPs in fiercely competitive Silly Valley don't have.
: (Not to mention, I have a funny feeling Sonoma consumers have a
: little less blind allegiance to big corporate entities than a lot
: of other places, and that would benefit Sonic)
: So I dunno. So far so good. Sonic could be in their "golden"
: period right now. We shall see.
Philip, thanks for your thoughts on this, I appreciate your evenhanded
analysis.
Sonic.net is privately held by myself and my CTO, Scott Doty. Our staff is
45 employees, and we've got over 20,000 customers. We have no leased
equipment, loans or debt, and have been profitable for over six years.
We've got enough employees so that we can take vacations and keep from
getting burned out, and we're having a lot of fun.
Consider also that the climate for ISP buy-outs is not at all what it used
to be. In years past, ISPs were being purchased left and right by venture
funded speculative roll-up ventures and telcos in partial cash and mostly
stock transactions. Based upon the then-current valuation of those stocks,
these deals looked pretty good in many cases.
The catch was the vesting periods - once the ISP principals could liquidate
that stock, it wasn't worth very much.
Now, noone is throwing money at speculative customer acquisition and market
share ploys, and reality has set in. Meanwhile, a lot of smaller ISPs have
fallen on hard financial times with lease and debt service which they really
can't bear without the type of growth that was happening two to seven years
ago, and they're not healthy. So, most purchases seem to be at bottom
dollar "fire sale" prices of distressed ISPs.
These two factors have meant that healthy ISPs that are doing well are just
worth too much - and that the speculative money isn't there anymore.
So, even if Scott and I had some interest in selling out, it wouldn't be an
option.
Philip J. Koenig
Jasper) writes...
> Philip, thanks for your thoughts on this, I appreciate your evenhanded
> analysis.
I do try. :-)
[snippage]
> So, even if Scott and I had some interest in selling out, it wouldn't be an
> option.
Heh. Well that's cool, guess Sonic's customers should defer
their worrying until the capital markets improve then. <g>