Tymnet, milnet, arpanet, etc
Gandalf Parker
this...
NATIVE PEOPLES: Used in reference to the people who were already present
when the area as "discovered", renamed, and claimed by others.
I used to have a sig that said "Ive been on Internet since before it was
called Internet". But since I read that I now just post "Im an Internet
Native" then wait for them to ask what that means. :)
Apparently we have a number of Internet Natives in this group.
1974 Gandalf Parker gets on the net tymnet->arpanet->milnet->internet
1979 UseNet was created
1983 the first TCP/IP network NSF net
1989 the merging of networks and birth of InterNet
1994 public WWW
So, yes I guess I am older than virtual dirt.
Gandalf Parker
--
THERE WAS NO INTELLIGENT DESIGN!
Random events started things and from there it progressed by chaotic
mutant offshoots which either lived or died. The result is such an
unmappable confusing intertwined hodgepodge that no one in their right
mind can claim it was intelligently designed. What? No I meant Internet
John Navas
<Xns9E324759826...@199.245.68.61>, Gandalf Parker
<gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
>I saw a reference to Tymnet in a thread awhile back and I meant to post
>this...
>
>NATIVE PEOPLES: Used in reference to the people who were already present
>when the area as "discovered", renamed, and claimed by others.
>
>I used to have a sig that said "Ive been on Internet since before it was
>called Internet". But since I read that I now just post "Im an Internet
>Native" then wait for them to ask what that means. :)
>
>Apparently we have a number of Internet Natives in this group.
>
>1974 Gandalf Parker gets on the net tymnet->arpanet->milnet->internet
>...
I too used Tymnet. :O
--
John FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>
Phil Stripling
Parker <gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
> I saw a reference to Tymnet in a thread awhile back and I meant to post
> this...
I can't remember who it was, but back in the 80s a company with
shared-time computers figured out they weren't being used at night. So
they sold 'memberships' to people who lived in the local calling area
of their dial-up system, and we could then log into their entire
computer system and make local calls in whatever cities the computers
were in.
No voice calls, but I lived in Philly, and I could log into the WELL
and Byte Magazine's bulletin board and dawdle as long as I wished.
I was a member of PACS, and I had internet access through them, so it
was post-Internet. But so few people outside universities had access to
the Internet that BBSes were the most-used means of getting programs
and socializing with other users. The WELL and BIX were more or less
renowned for the quality of their contributors. Jerry Pournelle and
Stewart Brand were certainly famous even back then.
I can't remember the name of the service, though. I'm fairly confident
it wasn't Tymnet.
SMS
> Apparently we have a number of Internet Natives in this group.
>
> 1974 Gandalf Parker gets on the net tymnet->arpanet->milnet->internet
> 1979 UseNet was created
> 1983 the first TCP/IP network NSF net
> 1989 the merging of networks and birth of InterNet
> 1994 public WWW
> So, yes I guess I am older than virtual dirt.
I thought it was so great when I worked for Tymnet and they gave me a
Silent 700 terminal so I could work at home (WAH), and it was many years
until I realized that companies that paid for second phone lines (and
later DSL) and provided you with portable equipment had simply found an
inexpensive way of getting you to work twice as many hours. Now I have
to have late night conference calls with China, Taiwan, Japan, and Korea.
I recall that our competitor was GTE Telnet, and when McDonnell Douglas
bought Tymshare/Tymnet we were hoping we could use their military
technology to take out Telnet.
SMS
> I can't remember the name of the service, though. I'm fairly confident
> it wasn't Tymnet.
Could have been GTE Telnet. Those were the two nationwide networks.
Brad Allen
Gandalf Parker <gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
" this...
"
" NATIVE PEOPLES: Used in reference to the people who were already present
" when the area as "discovered", renamed, and claimed by others.
"
" I used to have a sig that said "Ive been on Internet since before it was
" called Internet". But since I read that I now just post "Im an Internet
" Native" then wait for them to ask what that means. :)
"
" Apparently we have a number of Internet Natives in this group.
"
" 1974 Gandalf Parker gets on the net tymnet->arpanet->milnet->internet
" 1979 UseNet was created
" 1983 the first TCP/IP network NSF net
" 1989 the merging of networks and birth of InterNet
This predates 1989. While many like to cite the legalities of the
many fiefdoms, both the email Internet and the IP Internet were alive
and well well before 1989. The email Internet was flourishing quite
well before 1989, including BITNET, UUCP, CSNET, and ARPAnet sites,
and some others like MCI and Fido. IP Internet included many parts,
including UK, and others; many IP networks were internetworked as the
Internet in 1986. NSF and its smaller parts BARRnet and such were
around then. Everyone knew it would grow to the whole world and most
the populace, and everyone except lamers would come to use it; the
only questions tended to be how quickly and what structures it would
have, and we were all prettymuch content that those questions would be
answered with the simplicity of time passage. I was using the
Internet in many of its various forms starting in 1984 and pretty
comprehensively as of 1986, and I don't consider myself an old-timer.
" 1994 public WWW
" So, yes I guess I am older than virtual dirt.
That only counts if you used internets before 1972, which, by the way,
many ba.internet posters and readers probably have (probably before I
was born, which was 1971). That's not an easy peg on the resume to
have, though, so don't try to conjure up a false history just because
you were punching computer buttons back then; it had to also include
networked computers. (Think IBM, perhaps with taperolls and
punchcards and such, but it would require something akin to an
electronic message (ACK?) traveling back to the originating computer
that would conduct some non-human-required action because of that
message.)
John Navas
<4ce2d44b$0$1675$742e...@news.sonic.net>, q...@sonic.net (Brad Allen)
wrote:
I was deploying "internets" in the latter half of the 1960's over leased
point-to-point and multipoint circuits with dial backup using mostly IBM
terminal gear. I can still remember the excitement of the first
Paradyne 3600 baud modems. :)
--
John
"There are three kinds of men.
The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
-Will Rogers
Jonz
> I was deploying "internets" in the latter half of the 1960's over leased
> point-to-point and multipoint circuits with dial backup using mostly IBM
> terminal gear. I can still remember the excitement of the first
> Paradyne 3600 baud modems. :)
>
Does the name 'Cambridge Computers' ring a bell?
Jonz
Bhairitu
I lived in the country and spent $100 a month on long distance because
the only way I could get BIX, Genie, CompuServe, etc was by long
distance to a city about 120 miles away. It was well worth it because
it put the tech industry as if it was at my doorstep and that along with
UPS and Fedex allowed me to do some lucrative contract programming
living in the boonies. Funny thing was when I last visited that town in
the early 90s the phone company was laying fiber. Why? The town has
been used since the early 50's as a test bed for Bell when they replaced
the operators with a dial system.
John Navas
Cambridge Computer Corporation. ;)
Carnation Corporation before that.
John
--
John
Thad Floryan
> 1979 UseNet was created
> [...]
And where it all began was shut down May 20, 2010:
Thad Floryan
> Parker <gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
>
>> I saw a reference to Tymnet in a thread awhile back and I meant to post
>> this...
>
> I can't remember who it was, but back in the 80s a company with
> shared-time computers figured out they weren't being used at night. So
> they sold 'memberships' to people who lived in the local calling area
> of their dial-up system, and we could then log into their entire
> computer system and make local calls in whatever cities the computers
> were in.
>
> No voice calls, but I lived in Philly, and I could log into the WELL
> and Byte Magazine's bulletin board and dawdle as long as I wished.
> I can't remember the name of the service, though. I'm fairly confident
> it wasn't Tymnet.
By that time there were a number of network systems.
One that many of us here in the Bay Area used was PPS*NET operated
by PacBell out of Sacramento. It was a switched network similar to
Tymnet and it was perfect to connect to, say, The Well without the
otherwise hefty toll charges incurred by direct dialing.
PPS*NET was so successful and low-priced that both Tymnet and the
other service (GTE Telnet IIRC) claimed predatory pricing to the CPUC.
PPS*NET charged only 50 cents per hour whereas Tymnet and others were
around $3/hour. Under pressure from Tymnet (and Telnet), the CPUC
caved-in and essentially forced PPS*NET to dismantle; that was really
a shame.
It seems a number of regulars here are ex-Tymshare/-Tymnet. I, too,
was there in the 1960s until 1972 at the Tech Devision in Palo Alto
and later in Cupertino on Bubb Road during the great expansion.
Keith Keller
> And where it all began was shut down May 20, 2010:
>
><http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2010/05/usenet.html>
Usenet is dead! Long live usenet!
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
Thad Floryan
http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2010/05/usenet.html
> [...]
> That only counts if you used internets before 1972, which, by the way,
> many ba.internet posters and readers probably have (probably before I
> was born, which was 1971). That's not an easy peg on the resume to
> have, though, so don't try to conjure up a false history just because
> you were punching computer buttons back then; it had to also include
> networked computers. (Think IBM, perhaps with taperolls and
> punchcards and such, but it would require something akin to an
> electronic message (ACK?) traveling back to the originating computer
> that would conduct some non-human-required action because of that
> message.)
In the 1960s there were computer networks of sorts that were
telephone-based.
Circa 1966-68 at the Electronic Defense Labs in Mountain View I was
using numerous services from ITT, Tymshare and others to connect
to "networked" SDS-940s, PDP-10s and IBM-360s. Later, at Tymshare,
I used an earlier Tymnet to connect to, for example, CEGOS in Paris
from Cupertino or my home.
In the early 1970s I was already on the ARPANET via TIPs at Tymshare
and Stanford. It was amazing to be able to connect to, say, the
(at-the-time) world's fastest computer, an IBM 360/195 at the
Rutherford High Energy Labs 90 miles north of London (UK), or to
various military bases from my home.
Several years ago I scanned a copy of the oldest ARPANET map I
could find in my files; if you're curious, it's here:
NoOp
...
> In the 1960s there were computer networks of sorts that were
> telephone-based.
>
> Circa 1966-68 at the Electronic Defense Labs in Mountain View I was
> using numerous services from ITT, Tymshare and others to connect
> to "networked" SDS-940s, PDP-10s and IBM-360s. Later, at Tymshare,
> I used an earlier Tymnet to connect to, for example, CEGOS in Paris
> from Cupertino or my home.
>
> In the early 1970s I was already on the ARPANET via TIPs at Tymshare
> and Stanford. It was amazing to be able to connect to, say, the
> (at-the-time) world's fastest computer, an IBM 360/195 at the
> Rutherford High Energy Labs 90 miles north of London (UK), or to
> various military bases from my home.
>
> Several years ago I scanned a copy of the oldest ARPANET map I
> could find in my files; if you're curious, it's here:
>
> <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/ARPANET_Sept_1982.pdf>
Folks in this thread might enjoy this:
<http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Tymes_LaRoy/Tymes_LaRoy_1.oral_history.2004.102657988.pdf>
Mike Durkin
Thad Floryan <th...@thadlabs.com> wrote:
>
>PPS*NET was so successful and low-priced that both Tymnet and the
>other service (GTE Telnet IIRC) claimed predatory pricing to the CPUC.
I think it was actually Telenet, with another E in the middle.
One of these guys, I forget which, had a "PC Pursuit" service that
BBS callers could use for I think $30/mo to get at first unlimited
nighttime use of the network, and then I think it went to 30hours/month.
Some of the big services like ExecPC and Compuserve had x.25
connections, but most of the time you were connecting to a distant
modem and typing AT commands to it to dial.
Thad Floryan
> In article <4CE2FBE4...@thadlabs.com>,
> Thad Floryan <th...@thadlabs.com> wrote:
>> PPS*NET was so successful and low-priced that both Tymnet and the
>> other service (GTE Telnet IIRC) claimed predatory pricing to the CPUC.
>
> I think it was actually Telenet, with another E in the middle.
Hmmm, I think you're right. It's been nearly 30 years. :-)
> One of these guys, I forget which, had a "PC Pursuit" service that
> BBS callers could use for I think $30/mo to get at first unlimited
> nighttime use of the network, and then I think it went to 30hours/month.
> Some of the big services like ExecPC and Compuserve had x.25
> connections, but most of the time you were connecting to a distant
> modem and typing AT commands to it to dial.
>
>> PPS*NET charged only 50 cents per hour whereas Tymnet and others were
>> around $3/hour. Under pressure from Tymnet (and Telnet), the CPUC
>> caved-in and essentially forced PPS*NET to dismantle; that was really
>> a shame.
BTW, I neglected to mention previously that "PPS*NET" stood for PacBell's
"Public Packet Switching * NETwork ".
Gandalf Parker
$742e...@news.sonic.net:
> This predates 1989. While many like to cite the legalities of the
> many fiefdoms, both the email Internet and the IP Internet were alive
> and well well before 1989. The email Internet was flourishing quite
> well before 1989, including BITNET, UUCP, CSNET, and ARPAnet sites,
> and some others like MCI and Fido. IP Internet included many parts,
> including UK, and others; many IP networks were internetworked as the
> Internet in 1986. NSF and its smaller parts BARRnet and such were
> around then.
Yes I knew all that. I was around and totally used almost everything you
listed. I even tought a class for awhile in "Internet History". But its a
fun debate to try and find a "start date" for The Internet. Generally any
extensive effort to do so ends up making a distinction between inter-
networking, and The Internet (with caps). When all of those individual
networks using IPs merged to allow cross usage of its users and services
over shared backbones tends to be the common definer of "the international
network of networks".
And that is kindof my point. That many of us are Internet Natives. Because
we were already on the nets and using so many of its features when it was
"discovered, claimed, and renamed" by others. When they declared the Birth
of The Internet, we were already here. We didnt join the internet, it
joined us. They came around and told us "you are on the internet now" and I
went "wow, cool".
Gandalf Parker
--
The growth of the Internet has less in common with engineering,
planning and design. And more in common with chaos theory, big bang
expanding universe, and the theory of evolution.
Gandalf Parker
to news:e0bbr7x...@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us:
> On 2010-11-16, Thad Floryan <th...@thadlabs.com> wrote:
>> And where it all began was shut down May 20, 2010:
>>
>><http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2010/05/usenet.html>
>
> Usenet is dead! Long live usenet!
And to dredge p another bit of Internet history, I will point out that the
problems with the Usenet are not new either.
The usenet is damaging itself, and the backbone distribution is back in
non-government hands. Its time for a new Cabal. The required conditions,
the capabilities, the symptoms and reasons exist for a new Cabal (there is
no cabal).
Gandalf Parker
--
*sigh* so often I see misunderstandings from people confusing usenet with
newsgroups. Usenet is part of newsgroups, but newsgroups are not
necessarily part of usenet.
Phil Stripling
<nooz...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Genie
GEnie! That was it.
Phil Stripling
<ra...@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
> I can't remember the name of the service, though. I'm fairly confident
> it wasn't Tymnet.
Bhairitu mentioned it: GEnie. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEnie
for more information.
SMS
> Folks in this thread might enjoy this:
> <http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Oral_History/Tymes_LaRoy/Tymes_LaRoy_1.oral_history.2004.102657988.pdf>
That brings back a lot of memories.
Loved that 2741 with its 134.5 baud rate. Only IBM. If I ever mention
anything to my son about punch cards, printing terminals, acoustic
couplers, etc., the standard response is "I read about those in my
history book."
I still go to the Tymshare building I worked at on Bubb Road. It's now
an Apple building and it's the electronics recycling/disposal center.
John Navas
Thad Floryan <th...@thadlabs.com> wrote:
>In the early 1970s I was already on the ARPANET via TIPs at Tymshare
>and Stanford. It was amazing to be able to connect to, say, the
>(at-the-time) world's fastest computer, an IBM 360/195 at the
>Rutherford High Energy Labs 90 miles north of London (UK), or to
>various military bases from my home.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_7600>:
From the period from about 1969 to 1975, the CDC 7600 was generally
regarded as the fastest computer in the world at the time except
specialized units.
The IBM 360/195, while no slouch, was only about 1/3 to 1/2 as fast as
the CDC 7600.
--
John
"Facts? We ain't got no facts. We don't need no facts. I don't have
to show you any stinking facts!" [with apologies to John Huston]
Mark Reinhold
<gan...@the.dead.ISP.of.Community.net> wrote:
I read all this stuff, and am thinking, Boy, I am not the only old
fart here. I paid 1600.00 for my Racal Vadic 110-300 baud modem. I
still have it, and will sell it cheap now.
Somewhere on the left coast
My Parole Officer says cigars calm me down
Thad Floryan
> On Tue, 16 Nov 2010 14:05:46 -0800, in <4CE3003A...@thadlabs.com>,
> Thad Floryan <th...@thadlabs.com> wrote:
>
>> In the early 1970s I was already on the ARPANET via TIPs at Tymshare
>> and Stanford. It was amazing to be able to connect to, say, the
>> (at-the-time) world's fastest computer, an IBM 360/195 at the
>> Rutherford High Energy Labs 90 miles north of London (UK), or to
>> various military bases from my home.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_7600>:
>
> From the period from about 1969 to 1975, the CDC 7600 was generally
> regarded as the fastest computer in the world at the time except
> specialized units.
>
> The IBM 360/195, while no slouch, was only about 1/3 to 1/2 as fast as
> the CDC 7600.
The speed claim wasn't mine, it was in the "Welcome" banner when connecting
to it (the 360/195). I didn't even know a "195" existed until I landed on
it while roaming the 'Net. Login names and passwords were freely available
back then.
:-)
SMS
Did you ever read _The Adolescence of P1_?
SMS
> I read all this stuff, and am thinking, Boy, I am not the only old
> fart here. I paid 1600.00 for my Racal Vadic 110-300 baud modem. I
> still have it, and will sell it cheap now.
I can bundle in my Diablo 630ECS daisy wheel printer. It was the first
product that ever made it to market that I worked on, and I just haven't
been able to throw it out. You can still buy ribbons for it. Cheaper
than ink cartridges.