Restaurants without prices for beverages on the menu.

[sms]

I've noticed this more and more. They'll have the beverages on the menu,
but with no prices, you have to ask for each item.

I just don't order beverages at places like that, as a matter of
principle and because I know that if they're leaving the prices off then
they must be really expensive.

---
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[sf]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 15:33:12 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> I've noticed this more and more. They'll have the beverages on the menu,
> but with no prices, you have to ask for each item.
>
> I just don't order beverages at places like that, as a matter of
> principle and because I know that if they're leaving the prices off then
> they must be really expensive.
>

What kind of restaurants are these and where are they located?


--
Avoid cutting yourself when slicing vegetables by getting someone else to hold them.

[Steve Pope]

Swertz <sqw...@cluemail.compost> wrote:

>Fridays, a national chain, doesn't have soft drink or tea prices on
>their menus. When asked, they cost $2.75. I'll have water please.
>They also have an extensive cocktail menu without any prices.

It's more or less normal for cocktail prices not to appear on a
menu, or for only some of them (house specialties and happy-hour
prices, usually) to have listed prices. Cocktails are too numerous
to place on a list. And while a well cocktail will have a fixed known
price it's seldom stated on the menu.

Although in the old days, places like Bertola's would do so.

Steve

[Tim May]

On 2016-10-15 01:30:33 +0000, Swertz said:

> On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:05:46 -0700, sf wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 15:33:12 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>

>>> I've noticed this more and more. They'll have the beverages on the menu,
>>> but with no prices, you have to ask for each item.
>>>
>>> I just don't order beverages at places like that, as a matter of
>>> principle and because I know that if they're leaving the prices off then
>>> they must be really expensive.
>>>

>> What kind of restaurants are these and where are they located?
>

> Fridays, a national chain, doesn't have soft drink or tea prices on
> their menus. When asked, they cost $2.75. I'll have water please.
> They also have an extensive cocktail menu without any prices.

A friend of mine was recently on vacation in western Germany, eastern
France (basically, Alsace-Lorraine). He savored a lot of the local food
and their very reasonable glasses of wine or beer with meals. None of
the "meal is $10, bottle of wine is $30" nonsense that is so common in
California.

Personally, I favor water. When an iced tea costs $2.75, I'll drink water.

(Which I actually prefer, anyway. I'll typically drink 3-4 glasses of
water during a normal meal. That much soda or tea would be too much.
Let along beer or wine.)

--Tim


>
> I have seen it plenty of other places, too. That's just the most
> recent one I remember.
>
> -sw


--
Tim May

[Tim May]

On 2016-10-15 01:38:47 +0000, Steve Pope said:

> Swertz <sqw...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
>
>> Fridays, a national chain, doesn't have soft drink or tea prices on
>> their menus. When asked, they cost $2.75. I'll have water please.
>> They also have an extensive cocktail menu without any prices.
>
> It's more or less normal for cocktail prices not to appear on a
> menu, or for only some of them (house specialties and happy-hour
> prices, usually) to have listed prices. Cocktails are too numerous
> to place on a list. And while a well cocktail will have a fixed known
> price it's seldom stated on the menu.

This is news to me.

I'm very glad to be disconnected from the current habits of the Millennials.

>
> Although in the old days, places like Bertola's would do so.

I recall in my old days that nearly all places had prices for mixed
drinks listed. Prices like "$1.50" and $1.75" and $2.25" and all.

I suspect places now are afraid of listing their nosebleed prices..
Kind of a throwback to the days when--it was rumored, but I never saw
it myself--women were handed menus with no prices listed.

--
Tim May

[Julian Macassey]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 01:46:03 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net>
wrote:

>
> A friend of mine was recently on vacation in western Germany,
> eastern France (basically, Alsace-Lorraine). He savored a lot
> of the local food and their very reasonable glasses of wine or
> beer with meals. None of the "meal is $10, bottle of wine is
> $30" nonsense that is so common in California.

I have been visiting Alsace since the early 1960s.

But when it comes to drinking wine, the French tend not
to have the snobbery about it that the Californians have
developed. People that have been drinking wine daily for
hundreds of years just enjoy it.

If you eat at a French Routier (Truck stop), you will
often get a pris fixe meal that includes wine. Sometimes a bottle
dropped on your table, but at one routier I ate at, they gave you
a small carafe and you filled it ad lib at some taps by the hors
d'oeuvre, pick a red, white or rosé ordinaire. Yes, (gasp!) booze
at a truck stop! What's even worse, some routiers have a full
bar should you like a pastis as well.

When I have been working in France, wine is drunk at
lunch time, but then in the UK popping down to the pub at lunch
time for a pint and a pie is OK too.


--
The crowd that pays $12 for a cocktail will probably pay $13 for a bespoke,
artisanal, locally-sourced, fully buzzword-compliant sandwich. - Tim May

[Ciccio]

On 10/15/2016 11:35 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 01:46:03 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> A friend of mine was recently on vacation in western Germany,
>> eastern France (basically, Alsace-Lorraine). He savored a lot
>> of the local food and their very reasonable glasses of wine or
>> beer with meals. None of the "meal is $10, bottle of wine is
>> $30" nonsense that is so common in California.
>
> I have been visiting Alsace since the early 1960s.
>
> But when it comes to drinking wine, the French tend not
> to have the snobbery about it that the Californians

> developed. People that have been drinking wine daily for
> hundreds of years just enjoy it.

Same with the Italians, a proletarian attitude passed on and held by
many of their American cousins. While I was growing up, it was common
among Italian-American families in my area to always have cheap red
wine, affectionately known as Dago Red, on the dinner table.

Often a dab was even mixed to the food for the bambino. The children
would often have a small glass of watered down vino. Everybody else
would partake when the jug was passed around the kitchen table
throughout dinner and afterwards while squabbling about topics reserved
for "after dinner."

Of course, nowadays some loony lefty government bully social worker
would kick in the door and arrest the parents for child endangerment or
some such crap.

Though seldom, if ever, was wine, or any alcoholic beverages, consumed
outside of the kitchen, say, in the front room while watching TV, even
when watching sports.

Ciccio
--
They who believe that they can rely on the government
to provide them with a good quality of life,
need only ask the American Indians.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ntu523$1qri$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>The children would often have a small glass of watered down vino.

This sort of practice dates to the medieval era & prior, when "plain"
water, particularly in cities, would not have been safe to drink.
Weak alcoholic beverages at breakfast, for children, etc. were the
norm in Europe at that time.

[Julian Macassey]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:54:31 -0700, Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 10/15/2016 11:35 AM, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>
>> But when it comes to drinking wine, the French tend not
>> to have the snobbery about it that the Californians
>> developed. People that have been drinking wine daily for
>> hundreds of years just enjoy it.
>
> Same with the Italians, a proletarian attitude passed on and held by
> many of their American cousins. While I was growing up, it was common
> among Italian-American families in my area to always have cheap red
> wine, affectionately known as Dago Red, on the dinner table.

I was going to mention in an earlier post that I knew an
old school Italian family in Burbank, where the uncles would sit
around and drink espressos. The family had their own vinyard out
by Valencia, CA and made their own red wine which they bottled in
unmarked bottles. I would drink it with them in the evenings from
unassuming tumblers. They would give me the odd bottle to take
home.

I also read that the old Italian community in San Pedro,
CA buy bulk grapes and make their own wine even today.

>
> Often a dab was even mixed to the food for the bambino. The children
> would often have a small glass of watered down vino. Everybody else
> would partake when the jug was passed around the kitchen table
> throughout dinner and afterwards while squabbling about topics reserved
> for "after dinner."

At Sunday dinners, I was always served wine, watered down
when I was young.

I was having dinner with an American in Birritz one
evening, at an adjacent table was a woman with a ten year old
boy. The woman poured him a glass of wine. The American was
shocked, but on reflection thought why not.

>
> Of course, nowadays some loony lefty government bully social worker
> would kick in the door and arrest the parents for child endangerment or
> some such crap.

This is the country where giving a twenty-year old a beer
is a crime.


--
The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead
all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact
that it was he, by peddling second rate technology, led them into it in the
first place, and continues to do so today. - Douglas Adams, Guardian 1995

[Ciccio]

Makes sense. Yet another of the many food traditions with historic roots
to ancient health beliefs/practices.

Moreover, it brings to mind that plumbing has done as much, if not more,
for advancing human health than any medical or pharmaceutical
discovery/invention. When man learned to to separate the bad water from
the good water, life expectancy really increased. It's amazing, if not
tragic, the millions on earth who still don't accomplish such.

[Ciccio]

On 10/15/2016 3:19 PM, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 13:54:31 -0700, Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> I was going to mention in an earlier post that I knew an
> old school Italian family in Burbank, where the uncles would sit
> around and drink espressos.

Espresso is yet another beverage us kids would be given watered down or,
more accurately, very milked down. To this day, I, and many others with
whom I grew up, still view lattes/macchiatos as children's drinks,
though it's quite ordinary for adults to drink them. Perhaps like hot
chocolates may be viewed by many Americans.


> The family had their own vinyard outby Valencia, CA and made their own red wine which they bottled in

> unmarked bottles. I would drink it with them in the evenings from
> unassuming tumblers. They would give me the odd bottle to take
> home.
>
> I also read that the old Italian community in San Pedro,
> CA buy bulk grapes and make their own wine even today.

Certainly here in the Livermore wine country we Italian-Americans still
do. Or, at least, I often go to one friend's or another's harvest crush
party.

> I was having dinner with an American in Birritz one
> evening, at an adjacent table was a woman with a ten year old
> boy. The woman poured him a glass of wine. The American was
> shocked, but on reflection thought why not.

When I was growing up in North Beach such was common. Though mostly at
the neighborhood restaurants that were patronized mostly by locals, than
those patronized mostly by tourists.

> This is the country where giving a twenty-year old a beer
> is a crime.

Yet, no problem giving the twenty-year old a weapon to go to war with.
My .02 is if anybody has an CAC card reflecting active military duty,
the holder can buy booze, regardless of the holder's age. That's that.

[Tim May]

On 2016-10-15 22:19:20 +0000, Julian Macassey said:
>
> This is the country where giving a twenty-year old a beer
> is a crime.

But feeding him into the meat grinders at age 18 is OK.

I recall this was a big issue during Vietnam: "Old enough to be sent to
war, old enoughtto vote." The voting age was lowered to 18 in early
1971.

It should've happened with alcohol, cigarettes, etc.

The country is schizoid....twenty-first century schizoid land. The age
of consent goes up but fourth graders are taught the proper use of
condoms and birth control pills. School nurses even hand this stuff out
to schoolchildren, often without informing parents.


--
Tim May

[Julian Macassey]

On Sat, 15 Oct 2016 19:02:15 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
> On 2016-10-15 22:19:20 +0000, Julian Macassey said:
>>
>> This is the country where giving a twenty-year old a beer
>> is a crime.
>
> But feeding him into the meat grinders at age 18 is OK.
>
> I recall this was a big issue during Vietnam: "Old enough to be sent to
> war, old enoughtto vote." The voting age was lowered to 18 in early
> 1971.

> It should've happened with alcohol, cigarettes, etc.

The drinking age used to be 18 in many States, Wisconsin
was one, Libby Dole when she was secretary of Transportation
under Reagan pushed for the drinking age to be 21 nationwide.
Thanks Libby.

>
> The country is schizoid....twenty-first century schizoid land. The age
> of consent goes up but fourth graders are taught the proper use of
> condoms and birth control pills. School nurses even hand this stuff out
> to schoolchildren, often without informing parents.

I'm in favour of sex ed and birth control.

--
If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to
help people. Anthony Wedgwood Benn

[sf]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 20:30:33 -0500, Swertz <sqw...@cluemail.compost>
wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 17:05:46 -0700, sf wrote:
>

> > On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 15:33:12 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've noticed this more and more. They'll have the beverages on the menu,
> >> but with no prices, you have to ask for each item.
> >>
> >> I just don't order beverages at places like that, as a matter of
> >> principle and because I know that if they're leaving the prices off then
> >> they must be really expensive.
> >>
> > What kind of restaurants are these and where are they located?
>

> Fridays, a national chain, doesn't have soft drink or tea prices on
> their menus. When asked, they cost $2.75. I'll have water please.
> They also have an extensive cocktail menu without any prices.
>

> I have seen it plenty of other places, too. That's just the most
> recent one I remember.
>

OK, thanks. I don't live in the land of chain restaurants and a wider
array of choices - thank god. I've never been to an Outback and only
to a Friday's once (decades ago). It wasn't bad, but there other
restaurants that we like just as well or better closer to home.

It seems like nobody (except me) asks the price of an alcoholic drink,
so why does a no price listed non-alcoholic beverage bother them like
that? I don't want a surprise when it comes to paying the bill - I
even ask what the price of the daily specials (that they quickly
recite) are.

[sf]

On Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:00:47 -0500, Swertz <sqw...@cluemail.compost>
wrote:

> These are all painstakingly described foofoo cocktails with pictures -
> about 20 of them.

I always fall for the foofoo one when it contains elderflower (St.
Germain). I really need to buy a bottle of it for home use.

[Steve Pope]

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I always fall for the foofoo one when it contains elderflower (St.
>Germain). I really need to buy a bottle of it for home use.

Indeed, good stuff to have on hand.

Steve