Costco bacon

[evergene]

Somewhere or other I read recently a list of "10 things you should buy
at Costco." One thing was Kirkland bacon. I believe everything I read,
so I bought some.

Feh. The first thing you notice when it hits the skillet is how much
water is exuded. This water has to evaporate, or be poured off, before
the bacon can achieve crisp. That worked, mo o less, but the end
result wasn't any tastier than typical commercial bacon.

The best commercial bacon I've found is TJ's Black Forest brand. The
best local non-commercial bacon is from Steve something-or-other at
"Damn Fine Bacon." The best non-local non-commercial bacon is from
what's-his-name in Tennessee, also from what's-her-name in Princeton,
Kentucky.

=-=-

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople...

...Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

[David Arnstein]

In article <la3tib562b4vqudjh...@4ax.com>,
evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
<Bacon from Costco>

At this moment, Denny's is going overboard with bacon. You can try a
bacon sundae, for example (I did not!).

They offer "thick-cut honey jalapen~o bacon." I like it. I don't find
it to be too sweet, and the spicy flavor is welcome. I prefer crispy
bacon to thick-cut bacon, but this is OK for a change.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstei...@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

[Tim May]

On 2016-05-08 01:03:58 +0000, evergene said:

> Somewhere or other I read recently a list of "10 things you should buy
> at Costco." One thing was Kirkland bacon. I believe everything I read,
> so I bought some.
>
> Feh. The first thing you notice when it hits the skillet is how much
> water is exuded. This water has to evaporate, or be poured off, before
> the bacon can achieve crisp. That worked, mo o less, but the end
> result wasn't any tastier than typical commercial bacon.

As it happens, I just bought a pack of the Kirkland bacon (something
with "Applewood" in in) several days ago.

My results have been excellent. Very crispy in my wok (which I use for
bacon and eggs a lot more these days) if I cook it right. In my
experience, it's almost always in the cooking. Likewise with eggs,
which Costco sells at about a third the price of my local Whole
Foods-equivalent stores. (And so little Omega-3 is in an egg that it's
not worth paying 3x more for.)

I saw a review a week or two ago which concluded that a "best choice"
for bacon was something national and generic, something like Armour or
Farmer John or whatever. They basically said nearly all bacon is
fundamentally from the same cuts of the same kinds of animals.

About Instanbul, your joke, I recently learned that Istanbul is not
some weird, Arabic-language or Turkish-language name for what was once
Byzantium, then Constantinople. Rather, it's harkens back to the name
many in the Bay Area also use for San Francisco: the City. Or more
properly "to the city." Something like "Ist ta Polis." Bul cognate to
Pol (is). Then do the usual B and P switch and "Istanbul" sounds a lot
like "To the Polis, the City." A Greek nickname for the city.

So I've warmed to Instanbul over the older names.

--
Tim May

[evergene]

Tim May wrote:

>On 2016-05-08 01:03:58 +0000, evergene said:
>
>> Somewhere or other I read recently a list of "10 things you should buy
>> at Costco." One thing was Kirkland bacon. I believe everything I read,
>> so I bought some.
>>
>> Feh. The first thing you notice when it hits the skillet is how much
>> water is exuded. This water has to evaporate, or be poured off, before
>> the bacon can achieve crisp. That worked, mo o less, but the end
>> result wasn't any tastier than typical commercial bacon.
>
>As it happens, I just bought a pack of the Kirkland bacon (something
>with "Applewood" in in) several days ago.

I think I got a different product. The only "Kirkland" bacon I could
find was a pack of four 1-lb packages of "Kirkland Signature Lower
Sodium Naturally Hickory Smoked."

>My results have been excellent. Very crispy in my wok (which I use for
>bacon and eggs a lot more these days) if I cook it right. In my
>experience, it's almost always in the cooking. Likewise with eggs,
>which Costco sells at about a third the price of my local Whole
>Foods-equivalent stores. (And so little Omega-3 is in an egg that it's
>not worth paying 3x more for.)
>
>I saw a review a week or two ago which concluded that a "best choice"
>for bacon was something national and generic, something like Armour or
>Farmer John or whatever. They basically said nearly all bacon is
>fundamentally from the same cuts of the same kinds of animals.

It's all pork belly, but there's a profound difference between Oscar
Meyer-type bacon and what, for want of a better word, I'll call
country bacon. The latter is cured like country ham - packed in a dry
cure for several weeks, rather than injected with brine, and then
smoked for a couple of days. It stays good for weeks without
refrigeration. It's saltier than supermarket bacon; not to everyone's
taste.

It's also too expensive for me. But for anyone with lots of dough*, I
recommend Benton's (Tennessee), Newsom's (Kentucky), and Damn Fine
Bacon (San Francisco).

>About Instanbul, your joke, I recently learned that Istanbul is not
>some weird, Arabic-language or Turkish-language name for what was once
>Byzantium, then Constantinople. Rather, it's harkens back to the name
>many in the Bay Area also use for San Francisco: the City. Or more
>properly "to the city." Something like "Ist ta Polis." Bul cognate to
>Pol (is). Then do the usual B and P switch and "Istanbul" sounds a lot
>like "To the Polis, the City." A Greek nickname for the city.
>
>So I've warmed to Instanbul over the older names.

Sexy dance version of Istanbul Not Constantinople, from the TV show
"Bunheads":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO10Xgl0eM

*"I got to make lots of dough to juice the guys I got to juice in
order to make lots of dough to juice the guys I got to juice."
-- from "The Long Goodbye", Raymond Chandler

[Tim May]

On 2016-05-08 04:12:20 +0000, evergene said:

> Tim May wrote:
>> As it happens, I just bought a pack of the Kirkland bacon (something
>> with "Applewood" in in) several days ago.
>
> I think I got a different product. The only "Kirkland" bacon I could
> find was a pack of four 1-lb packages of "Kirkland Signature Lower
> Sodium Naturally Hickory Smoked."

At my Costco (Santa Cruz) there was a very large refrigerated unit
right inside the front door. It was hard to miss.

But in any case, my experience has been about the same for nearly all
of the bacon I buy and fry. As the big national report (don't recall
where I saw it, as I said), bacon is pretty much a commodity.

>
> It's all pork belly, but there's a profound difference between Oscar
> Meyer-type bacon and what, for want of a better word, I'll call
> country bacon. The latter is cured like country ham - packed in a dry
> cure for several weeks, rather than injected with brine, and then
> smoked for a couple of days. It stays good for weeks without
> refrigeration. It's saltier than supermarket bacon; not to everyone's
> taste.
>
> It's also too expensive for me. But for anyone with lots of dough*, I
> recommend Benton's (Tennessee), Newsom's (Kentucky), and Damn Fine
> Bacon (San Francisco).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have a lot of dough.

I have a lot of dough because I have been careful over the past 42
years of my investing years to not "squander" money on things where the
Epicurean pay-off was below the price charged.

I've tried a few of the Whole Foods or Deluxe Foods (a local high end
place) versions of bacon, but I don't find them worth the extra money.
It mostly all crisps up into the same bunch of delicious bacon.

For about the same reason I'm happy with Ten High Bourbon compared to
Jim Beam (let alone to Bullet, Whistlepig, etc., all of the
ultrapremium bourbons).

And for beef, I usually buy Choice, not Premium. It's all in the cooking.

I also shop the "Manager's Specials" at some places, where
near-expiration-date meat is 30%-50% off. Easy to cook up the same day.
Simply, of course.



--
Tim May

[sf]

On Sat, 07 May 2016 18:03:58 -0700, evergene
<ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:

> Somewhere or other I read recently a list of "10 things you should buy
> at Costco." One thing was Kirkland bacon. I believe everything I read,
> so I bought some.
>
> Feh. The first thing you notice when it hits the skillet is how much
> water is exuded. This water has to evaporate, or be poured off, before
> the bacon can achieve crisp. That worked, mo o less, but the end
> result wasn't any tastier than typical commercial bacon.
>
> The best commercial bacon I've found is TJ's Black Forest brand. The
> best local non-commercial bacon is from Steve something-or-other at
> "Damn Fine Bacon." The best non-local non-commercial bacon is from
> what's-his-name in Tennessee, also from what's-her-name in Princeton,
> Kentucky.
>

Hubby likes Butcher brand thick cut bacon (1.5 lb package) from
Safeway. I found it at Grocery Warehouse a few weeks ago at $4+ and
it was meaty - not mostly fat, the way other bacon brands can be.

--

sf

[sf]

On Sun, 8 May 2016 01:37:29 +0000 (UTC), David Arnstein
<arnstei...@pobox.com> wrote:

> In article <la3tib562b4vqudjh...@4ax.com>,
> evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
> <Bacon from Costco>
>
> At this moment, Denny's is going overboard with bacon. You can try a
> bacon sundae, for example (I did not!).
>
> They offer "thick-cut honey jalapen~o bacon." I like it. I don't find
> it to be too sweet, and the spicy flavor is welcome. I prefer crispy
> bacon to thick-cut bacon, but this is OK for a change.

I bet that would be good in a BLT. Hmm. If I can find a senior
discount, I'll have lunch there.

--

sf

[Steve Pope]

On Sat, 07 May 2016 18:03:58 -0700, evergene

> Somewhere or other I read recently a list of "10 things you should buy
> at Costco." One thing was Kirkland bacon. I believe everything I read,
> so I bought some.
>
> Feh. The first thing you notice when it hits the skillet is how much
> water is exuded.

It seems to me it should be possible to calculate the moisture
content from the nutrition label. Bacon that is excessively
watered would have fewer grams of fat and protein per unit weight.

Steve

[Ciccio]

On 5/7/2016 8:11 PM, Tim May wrote:

> I saw a review a week or two ago which concluded that a "best choice"
> for bacon was something national and generic, something like Armour or
> Farmer John or whatever. They basically said nearly all bacon is
> fundamentally from the same cuts of the same kinds of animals.

I buy whichever bacon is cheapest at the time. This method has served me
well my whole life with nary a complaint with maybe one tasting a skosh
better than another and my tasting the high end stuff as a guest...then
a few months ago I bought Walmart's brand bacon and it was gawd awful!
After a eating a few pieces I threw away the rest.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

Absolutely. That's where I head for first and I've yet to get meat
worthy of complaint.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <v1ftibh6bsd6ar399...@4ax.com>,

evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>It's all pork belly, but there's a profound difference between Oscar
>Meyer-type bacon and what, for want of a better word, I'll call
>country bacon. The latter is cured like country ham - packed in a dry
>cure for several weeks, rather than injected with brine, and then
>smoked for a couple of days. It stays good for weeks without
>refrigeration. It's saltier than supermarket bacon; not to everyone's
>taste.

It's not only a matter of technique after you have the belly --
although I'm convinced that some of the cheapest brands use artificial
smoke flavor -- it's about how the pigs are farmed. That has a big
effect on flavor, particularly of the fat. So I love the aromatic
fat of well-raised pigs, but generally pass on mass market bacon
entirely. It's not worth eating.

[Steve Pope]

It's definitely worth not eating, at least until is becomes less
cancerous:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-moves-ban-cancer-causing-pork-antibiotic-n553101

Steve

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngo7sm$5sk$1...@blue-new.rahul.net>,

Steve Pope <spo...@speedymail.org> wrote:
>It's definitely worth not eating, at least until is becomes less
>cancerous:

I agree that concerns about mass market farming go well beyond how
things taste, but increasingly they don't taste good either.
Supermarket pork in general is amazingly bland. I'll still eat
e.g. a pork loin, prepared so to add some flavor, but the bacon is
just pointless.

[Eddie Grove]

If you'd like to try good pork, think about an excursion to Zazu if you
are ever near Santa Rosa. It is to the west, in the middle of nowhere.
The address says Sebastopol.

http://zazukitchen.com/


Eddie

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <87futsw...@hotmail.com>,

Eddie Grove <eddie...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>If you'd like to try good pork, think about an excursion to Zazu
>if you are ever near Santa Rosa.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm regularly "near Santa Rosa" so will
put it on the list. I've seen the place, but had no knowledge of
it.

[evergene]

That's been my experience too. The man who makes the excellent "Damn
Fine Bacon" says about his product, "The bellies come from a Berkridge
and Big Black cross breed raised by Mark Keller up North – just across
the Oregon line. I get them from Prather Ranch Meat Co. I like these
bellies because they are especially lean but with the perfect layer of
fat."

And some of the best country ham I've ever had came from Johnston
County Hams in North Carolina, using "Mangalitsa pigs from Heath
Putnam Farms... The Mangalitsa pig produces more monounsaturated fat
than modern breeds which produces a pleasant aroma and a buttery
flavor. The breed was imported by Heath Putnam to the United States
from Austria..."

The problem for me is cost. One pound of "Damn Fine Bacon" is $14. A
pound and a half of sliced Mangalitsa ham is $30 plus shipping. Not a
problem for Tim, who reminds us he has lots of dough, but too
expensive for my food budget.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <1rmvibh5rr9q1532q...@4ax.com>,

evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>The problem for me is cost. One pound of "Damn Fine Bacon" is $14.

I don't know what your financial constraints are like, but to me,
this is in the noise. I buy 2-3 packages of bacon in a year. If
I "overspend" by $5 on each one? Even $10? Well, I don't have a
calculator handy.

I mean, it's not like I'm rolling in money, but there's major factors
and minor factors. My rent went up again, by $700/mo starting this
month, for instance. If I religiously followed every money-saving
"suggestion" on ba.food (and I think many of them are simply asinine),
there's no way I'd save $700/mo -- let alone the rest of my rent!
How can I be so sure? Because I don't spend $700/mo on food!

So a few dollars on some nice bacon? That's much more satisfying
than padding my landlord's bank account. And a hell of a lot cheaper
too.

[Ciccio]

When we first became empty nesters we threw away much food and still do
to an extent because of the hassle of avoiding it. E.g., when we had a
full house a gallon of milk would last a meal or two. Now, we often
don't finish a quart before it goes bad.

We eat about 6 slices of bacon per pound, about four times per year,
sometimes less, throwing out the remaining. Tossing out, say, $10 worth
of bacon, however, would give me some pause.

Ciccio

[evergene]

Todd Michel McComb wrote:

>So a few dollars on some nice bacon? That's much more satisfying
>than padding my landlord's bank account. And a hell of a lot cheaper
>too.

In that case, I really do recommend either Damn Fine Bacon or bacon
from Benton's or Newsom's.

$14 will buy one pound of Damn Fine Bacon. For comparison, $14 will
also buy:
One 115g Cacao Prieto chocolate bar
or
One 78g tin of Ortiz Spanish Anchovies
or
One 90-minute ballet lesson at Alonzo King Dance Studios
or
One 375ml bottle of Carpano Antica Sweet Vermouth
or
One 1-litre bottle of Bariani California Balsamic Vinegar
or
One 8oz jar of Mirza Melon Jam
http://www.aramcoworld.com/en-US/Articles/November-2015/In-Search-of-Ibn-Battuta%E2%80%99s-Melon

[Steve Pope]

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

>We eat about 6 slices of bacon per pound, about four times per year,
>sometimes less, throwing out the remaining. Tossing out, say, $10 worth
>of bacon, however, would give me some pause.

Fortunately, high-end bacon is sold by butchers who are happy
to just sell you a couple three slices of it.

Very tangentially, it's getting harder for me to find veal recently.
I think it all must be going to restaurants, or something, but
the three butchers in my usual circuit (Rockridge Hall, Cafe Rouge
and Local Butcher Shop) usually have no veal on hand. It
was not this way a year ago.

Veal is essential for a Sicilian _ragu_ .

Steve

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngp1f9$d8l$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>We eat about 6 slices of bacon per pound, about four times per
>year, sometimes less, throwing out the remaining.

Oh, I freeze it. (What I care about is the good fat, not the
texture.)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ii00jb9hmkd06cok9...@4ax.com>,

evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>In that case, I really do recommend either Damn Fine Bacon or bacon
>from Benton's or Newsom's.

OK, I'll make a note, but the other issue is it has to be sold
somewhere I am. A special trip is unlikely.

[evergene]

Ciccio wrote:

>We eat about 6 slices of bacon per pound, about four times per year,
>sometimes less, throwing out the remaining. Tossing out, say, $10 worth
>of bacon, however, would give me some pause.

Why not freeze it?

[Ciccio]

I did that before and the flavor deteriorated. Plus it was a tad more
hassle to freeze than, say, beef.

Ciccio

[Julian Macassey]

On Sun, 08 May 2016 17:48:54 -0700, evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>
> The problem for me is cost. One pound of "Damn Fine Bacon" is $14. A
> pound and a half of sliced Mangalitsa ham is $30 plus shipping. Not a
> problem for Tim, who reminds us he has lots of dough, but too
> expensive for my food budget.

As was pointed out in the recent Tampa Bay articles on
the "Farm to table" con game. Good food costs more. The US has
accepted cheap factory farmed food, so blanche at paying for good
quality meat and veg.

To eat good food requires less gluttony and understanding
that we need to eat more veggies and fewer big chunks of meat.
`
--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngp4qm$gol$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>I did that before and the flavor deteriorated. Plus it was a tad
>more hassle to freeze than, say, beef.

Freezing does affect the texture (but for me, bacon is an ingredient,
not something I eat plain), but I find that bacon freezes much more
reliably than beef, which has issues with water content. I won't
leave beef in the freezer as long as I'll leave bacon.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngp60g$jsq$1...@usenet.stanford.edu>,

Todd Michel McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:

>I won't leave beef in the freezer as long as I'll leave bacon.

As long as we're almost on the topic, some people have found it
strange over the years that we freeze butter. It freezes very
reliably. Bacon... butter....

[Ciccio]

On 5/8/2016 9:13 PM, Steve Pope wrote:
> Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> We eat about 6 slices of bacon per pound, about four times per year,
>> sometimes less, throwing out the remaining. Tossing out, say, $10 worth
>> of bacon, however, would give me some pause.
>
> Fortunately, high-end bacon is sold by butchers who are happy
> to just sell you a couple three slices of it.

Oh, the butcher counters at supermarkets do that. It's worth a buck or
so, however, to avoid the hassle and just buy a package then toss the
unused bacon.

Though I do buy sausages a couple at a time. But I know I will be using
them within a few days. Whereas with bacon I'm seldom sure when I'll be
in the mood for it. I am very capricious when it comes to some foods,
others I give some forethought to. Also, I've found that the flavor of
sausage with freezing deteriorates less than does bacon.

Ciccio

[Steve Pope]

Todd Michel McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:

>As long as we're almost on the topic, some people have found it
>strange over the years that we freeze butter. It freezes very
>reliably. Bacon... butter....

I rarely use butter, but it happened that I wanted to try using
butter when making risotto, based on a strong recommendation for
doing so from a friend and professional chef in Italy.

I tried it. It was different, but it was not better than
my usual method of using just olive oil.

The upshot is I now have a chunk of free-range butter in the
freezer.

Not sure what I'm going to use it for.

Steve

[Ciccio]

On 5/8/2016 9:13 PM, Steve Pope wrote:

> Very tangentially, it's getting harder for me to find veal recently.
> I think it all must be going to restaurants, or something, but
> the three butchers in my usual circuit (Rockridge Hall, Cafe Rouge
> and Local Butcher Shop) usually have no veal on hand. It
> was not this way a year ago.
>
> Veal is essential for a Sicilian _ragu_ .

I had no problem finding veal at the Pleasanton Gene's a little while
ago. My ragu has the same meat ingredients as my meatballs/Italian meat
loaf, i.e., a mixture of about 1/3 each of veal, beef, and pork(often
Calabrese sausage).

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On 5/8/2016 10:32 PM, Steve Pope wrote:

> I tried it. It was different, but it was not better than
> my usual method of using just olive oil.

I have some family who always adds butter not to only to their risotto,
but also their sauce/ragu. I do so when the mood strikes me, though I
mostly use just olive oil. I'd say maybe 10-20% of the time I use
butter. Also, I do not treat olive oil and butter as always being
mutually exclusive when cooking.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On 5/8/2016 10:08 PM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> In article <ngp4qm$gol$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I did that before and the flavor deteriorated. Plus it was a tad
>> more hassle to freeze than, say, beef.
>
> Freezing does affect the texture (but for me, bacon is an ingredient,
> not something I eat plain),

Crumbling it into my poached eggs is my usual way of eating American
bacon. As an "ingredient" in the context that you're using it, I always
use Italian bacon/pancetta.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngqbv3$ffa$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>As an "ingredient" in the context that you're using it, I always
>use Italian bacon/pancetta.

That would be fine with me, and I do that sometimes, but generally
speaking, I think I get better value from the American style with
premium pigs.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <1et6oyk1e8mxv$.d...@sqwertz.com>,
Swertz <sqw...@cluemail.compost> wrote:
>I have noticed that the CostCo pork butts tastes exceptionally better
>than what I get at the supermarkets.

That's a surprising comment to me. I thought Costco beef was utterly
flavorless when I tried it, and that has largely formed my impression.
(That Costco should sell flavorless meat fits my image of them
perfectly, so perhaps I believe too readily.)

>Bacon is just a vehicle for salted and smoked fat so I think the way
>the pig was raised is less important than other cuts that will be
>eaten without heavy processing.

As already noted, in my opinion, it's the flavor of the fat that
changes most notably.

[Steve Pope]

Swertz <sqw...@cluemail.compost> wrote:

>Processed bacon, per USDA regulations, is not allowed to weigh more
>after it's been processed and packaged than it did when it was raw and
>unprocessed.

Perhaps they have figured out how to force-feed huge amounts
of water to the pig just before slaughter, using foie-gras-style
techniques.


S.

[Al Eisner]

On Sun, 8 May 2016, evergene wrote:

> Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>
>> So a few dollars on some nice bacon? That's much more satisfying
>> than padding my landlord's bank account. And a hell of a lot cheaper
>> too.
>
> In that case, I really do recommend either Damn Fine Bacon or bacon
> from Benton's or Newsom's.
>
> $14 will buy one pound of Damn Fine Bacon.

I happened to be browsing Draeger's online, and noticed a similar price
(a sale price at that) on a line of bacon from Applegate. They also
have less-pricey lines from Boar's Head and Niman Ranch (and of coursae
Oscar Meyer), all in packages. Are any of those on your radar?
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[Al Eisner]

On Sat, 7 May 2016, evergene wrote:

> Somewhere or other I read recently a list of "10 things you should buy
> at Costco." One thing was Kirkland bacon. I believe everything I read,

Even things put in quotes and followed by multiple smileys?

"evergene is being disingenuous here. This, as well as use of irony, is of
course banned in ba.food. I never engage in either." :) :) :)

> so I bought some.
>
> Feh. The first thing you notice when it hits the skillet is how much
> water is exuded. This water has to evaporate, or be poured off, before
> the bacon can achieve crisp. That worked, mo o less, but the end
> result wasn't any tastier than typical commercial bacon.
>
> The best commercial bacon I've found is TJ's Black Forest brand. The
> best local non-commercial bacon is from Steve something-or-other at
> "Damn Fine Bacon." The best non-local non-commercial bacon is from
> what's-his-name in Tennessee, also from what's-her-name in Princeton,
> Kentucky.
>
> Istanbul was Constantinople
> Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople...
>
> ...Every gal in Constantinople
> Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
> So if you've a date in Constantinople
> She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Pop songs used to be so informative! This would be much harder today;
most listeners would ask "What is Istanbul"? (There might be some
more intelligible analogs, but it would be uncharitable to say more.)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>They also have less-pricey lines from Boar's Head and Niman Ranch
>(and of coursae Oscar Meyer), all in packages. Are any of those
>on your radar?

Niman Ranch isn't what it used to be, and their bacon may have
slipped a bit, but it's still good. Between convenience & price
point, it's still what I get most often. (However, selection at
my local stores seems to be in flux, and NR is becoming less
available.)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,
Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

>Pop songs used to be so informative! This would be much harder
>today; most listeners would ask "What is Istanbul"? (There might
>be some more intelligible analogs, but it would be uncharitable
>to say more.)

That song seems like such a direct & egregious slap in the face to
the Greeks that I'm still astonished any time it comes over a public
sound system.

[Al Eisner]

The Greeks have been suffering so many egregious slaps in the face,
I doubt if they have the time to worry about a song.

[Ciccio]

Jeez, at $14 per pound it doesn't sound like much diff.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngr2lu$1mda$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Jeez, at $14 per pound it doesn't sound like much diff.

It's partly about what is more readily available.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,
Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>The Greeks have been suffering so many egregious slaps in the face,
>I doubt if they have the time to worry about a song.

A notion of "abstract worry," about which you are very likely
correct, quickly changes to being overtly insulted in the actual
presence of the song. I mean, I suppose one could argue that it's
a whimsical & much-needed corrective to the rampant anti-Muslim
sentiment in this country, but that only makes the song's popularity
more astonishing to me.

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 9 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

What popularity? I doubt if I've heard it more than once in the
past 40 years. (Although I strongly doubt that either of us is an
adequate arbiters of what is popular....)

[Todd Michel McComb]

I referenced its appearance over public speakers... in bars,
restaurants, supermarkets, etc. At least in that very specific
sense, I feel I have a pretty good idea of what is popular, since
I spend a lot of time in such places.

I've heard the song 3 times in the past week.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/8/16 8:32 AM, sf wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2016 01:37:29 +0000 (UTC), David Arnstein
> <arnstei...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>> At this moment, Denny's is going overboard with bacon. You can try a
>> bacon sundae, for example (I did not!).
>>
>> They offer "thick-cut honey jalapen~o bacon." I like it. I don't find
>> it to be too sweet, and the spicy flavor is welcome. I prefer crispy
>> bacon to thick-cut bacon, but this is OK for a change.
>
> I bet that would be good in a BLT. Hmm. If I can find a senior
> discount, I'll have lunch there.

Most Bay Area Denny's offer AARP Members a 15% discount. You just need to
show them your AARP Card.

http://discounts.aarp.org/en/offer.dennys.10003.html


- Peter

[Steve Pope]

Todd Michel McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:

>Niman Ranch isn't what it used to be, and their bacon may have
>slipped a bit, but it's still good. Between convenience & price
>point, it's still what I get most often. (However, selection at
>my local stores seems to be in flux, and NR is becoming less
>available.)

I wonder if their spinoff BN meats makes bacon.

S.

[evergene]

Al Eisner wrote:

>I happened to be browsing Draeger's online, and noticed a similar price
>(a sale price at that) on a line of bacon from Applegate. They also
>have less-pricey lines from Boar's Head and Niman Ranch (and of coursae
>Oscar Meyer), all in packages. Are any of those on your radar?

Not in particular. I actually don't eat that much bacon. My rant about
Costco bacon came about because of my disappointment in the stuff,
after reading a recommendation for it. (Although it's possible that I
bought a different variety than the recommended one.) The last time I
bought some country bacon was at least a year ago, from Damn Fine
Bacon.

When I need cured pork to cook with, I usually get pancetta or
guanciale, at Lucca. The pancetta has a "Molinari" label; the
guanciale is Niman Ranch brand.

==--==

"I mean, I know he's brilliant. I just think it's such a shame to be
so pleased with yourself."
-- Jacqueline Kennedy, about Supreme Court Justice Arthur Goldberg

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/8/16 12:34 PM, Swertz wrote:
>
> Wrights is the best major brand bacon, IMO. But it doesn't come in
> thin - only the 1.4oz and 2oz strips (a newer extra thick cut). The
> Costco raw bacon is made by Smithfield - which has about 25 bacon
> brands of varying quality - including Wright's.

In the Bay Area, many Walmarts (especially their groceries-only stores)
carry Wright's hickory-smoked and applewood-smoked bacon.


- Peter

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/9/16 3:44 PM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>
> I referenced its appearance over public speakers... in bars,
> restaurants, supermarkets, etc. At least in that very specific
> sense, I feel I have a pretty good idea of what is popular, since
> I spend a lot of time in such places.
>
> I've heard the song 3 times in the past week.

I haven't heard that song played in ages at the restaurants, supermarkets or
other stores that I've been at. Maybe it's a popular song among the crowd
you like to hang out with.


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngrvoe$t60$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>Maybe it's a popular song among the crowd you like to hang out
>with.

For instance, it seems to be well-known on ba.food.

But mainly, it would suggest popularity among the people marketing
to people I hang out with.... (I'll leave "like" out of it, since
that's not implied.)

[Helpful person]

On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 5:33:53 PM UTC-4, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>
> Niman Ranch isn't what it used to be, and their bacon may have
> slipped a bit, but it's still good.

Is this opinion from personal experience?

http://www.richardfisher.com

[evergene]

The one and only time I've ever heard it was in a YouTube video, as
the music that accompanies a two-minute ballet in "Bunheads."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO10Xgl0eM

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <4c1b4409-b8d8-4490...@googlegroups.com>,

Helpful person <rrl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Is this opinion from personal experience?

Er, yes.

[Ciccio]

Yes it does. Though I posted it a few days ago, it bears repeating...
Walmart's "Great Value" (Walmart brand) bacon is horrible and not THAT
cheap, i.e., about $4 per pound.

I've only tried Wright's a few times because I think it only sells in 2
pound minimum, which is way more than I usually want. Though when priced
per pound it's about as cheap as "Great Value." Thus, if one wants, at
least, 2 pounds, Wright's is the way to go.

Ciccio

[sf]

I remember it as the background music to a cartoon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg

--

sf

[Ciccio]

Convenience does have a value. Or more to the point, avoiding
inconvenience has a value.

Ciccio

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 9 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

You must hang out in different dives than I do. (Are the markets
Turkish?) Also, just because something appears on "Muzak" doesn't
make it popular....

Actually, thought I don't understand what you find insulting to
Greeks. "Constantinople" is a Roman name. And according to
wikipedia (I know, but nonetheless), "Istanbul" derives from a
Greek phrase - something innoccuous, not something like "fuck
the Gr**ks".

[Al Eisner]

On Mon, 9 May 2016, evergene wrote:

> Al Eisner wrote:
>
>> I happened to be browsing Draeger's online, and noticed a similar price
>> (a sale price at that) on a line of bacon from Applegate. They also
>> have less-pricey lines from Boar's Head and Niman Ranch (and of coursae
>> Oscar Meyer), all in packages. Are any of those on your radar?
>
> Not in particular. I actually don't eat that much bacon. My rant about
> Costco bacon came about because of my disappointment in the stuff,
> after reading a recommendation for it. (Although it's possible that I
> bought a different variety than the recommended one.) The last time I
> bought some country bacon was at least a year ago, from Damn Fine
> Bacon.
>
> When I need cured pork to cook with, I usually get pancetta or
> guanciale, at Lucca. The pancetta has a "Molinari" label; the
> guanciale is Niman Ranch brand.

I should have mentioned that Draeger's also sells its own bacon, by
the slice, in three varieties. It looks rather thick-sliced; I
think the price is about $9 per pound.

[Al Eisner]

4On Tue, 10 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> In article <ngrvoe$t60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Maybe it's a popular song among the crowd you like to hang out
>> with.
>
> For instance, it seems to be well-known on ba.food.

I think we're showing our age. :)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris01.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Also, just because something appears on "Muzak" doesn't make it
>popular....

I think that's arguable at best. Muzak might as well be one
definition of "popular," i.e. ubiquitous. Anyway, I'm sure that
ba.food readers have the ability to e.g. read the song's Wikipedia
page, and in particular the "popular culture references" section,
and decide the song isn't popular, but I'm comfortable with the
opposite conclusion. Isn't being a single from a platinum album
-- something else that might be the very definition of "popular"
for the music business -- already enough to be "popular"?

>Actually, thought I don't understand what you find insulting to
>Greeks.

Well, the part of the refrain -- hence hard to miss -- where they
say it's nobody's business but the Turks' is... to parallel your
original remark, "not informative." It's not as though these
tensions aren't contemporary.

[Al Eisner]

On Tue, 10 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>> Actually, thought I don't understand what you find insulting to
>> Greeks.
>
> Well, the part of the refrain -- hence hard to miss -- where they
> say it's nobody's business but the Turks' is... to parallel your
> original remark, "not informative." It's not as though these
> tensions aren't contemporary.

I still don't get your point. It is, after all, a city in Turkey; I
don't think the Greek's dispute that. And see my previous comments
on the name origins. Why should the Greeks care?

[Peter Lawrence]

Also there's a difference between being well-known versus just being known.

:)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris01.slac.stanford.edu>,
Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

>I still don't get your point. It is, after all, a city in Turkey; I
>don't think the Greek's dispute that. And see my previous comments
>on the name origins. Why should the Greeks care?

The name is basically the same in both Latin & Greek. You can
recognize the classical Greek "polis" in the ending. It was founded
by a Roman Emperor, yes, but the Eastern Empire quickly became a
Greek Empire... hence the Greek Orthodox Church, etc. Here is a
sentence from its Wikipedia page that might illustrate my point:
"It would remain the capital of the eastern, Greek-speaking empire
for over a thousand years." Moreover, the Ottomans had been a
multicultural, multilingual empire, meaning there were many Greeks
there. A lot of that changed with "modernization" and the
ethnic/language-based borders that were becoming the norm by the
time the city was "officially" renamed in 1930. Subsequently,
Greeks & Turks fought multiple border wars in the 20th century, and
continue to fight them on Cyprus.

Is any of this ringing any kind of bell...?

[Al Eisner]

On Tue, 10 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

Yes, it's largely familiar. But I still don't see why the Greeks
would object to the name change. Modern Turkey is much more confined
in its boundaries than the Ottoman empire was. Greece was no doubt
quite happy to be free of it. (Now, the Armenians and Kurds are
another story.)

[Todd Michel McComb]

Um, well, they wanted more territory in which to be free of it? I
mean, really Al, suppose you're a Greek person living in a city
with a Greek name that was the "capital of the Greek empire for
1000 years" and they change the name to something Turkish. You
don't think that kind of thing upsets people? How about telling
them it's none of their business?

>Now, the Armenians and Kurds are another story.

The switch to a uni-ethnic national standard is intimately related
to what happened with the Armenians. (I'll leave the Kurds out of
it, because they were not so involved in trade & administration in
the Ottoman Empire.)

[Ciccio]

On 5/10/2016 12:25 PM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris01.slac.stanford.edu>,
> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> I still don't get your point. It is, after all, a city in Turkey; I
>> don't think the Greek's dispute that. And see my previous comments
>> on the name origins. Why should the Greeks care?
>
> The name is basically the same in both Latin & Greek. You can
> recognize the classical Greek "polis" in the ending. It was founded
> by a Roman Emperor, yes,

Indeed, ironically, the first Roman emperor to embrace and promote
Christianity.

Ciccio

[evergene]

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

>Yes, it's largely familiar. But I still don't see why the Greeks
>would object to the name change. Modern Turkey is much more confined
>in its boundaries than the Ottoman empire was. Greece was no doubt
>quite happy to be free of it. (Now, the Armenians and Kurds are
>another story.)

I'm reminded of a story told by the American political commentator and
author David Rieff. Rieff visited a battlefield during the Bosnian
wars of the late 1990s. He describes it:

"Muslim corpses strewn across the muddy meadow, a Serb soldier grimly
standing guard."
"So, we asked the soldier, this young kid, 'What happened here?' At
which point the soldier took a drag on his cigarette and began, 'Well,
in 1385...'"

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/10/16 12:42 PM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris01.slac.stanford.edu>,
> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Modern Turkey is much more confined in its boundaries than the
>> Ottoman empire was. Greece was no doubt quite happy to be free
>> of it.
>
> Um, well, they wanted more territory in which to be free of it? I
> mean, really Al, suppose you're a Greek person living in a city
> with a Greek name that was the "capital of the Greek empire for
> 1000 years" and they change the name to something Turkish. You
> don't think that kind of thing upsets people?

Um, Istanbul isn't a really a true Turkish word. It's more of an alternate
Greek nickname for Constantinople, a nickname for the city that was used for
four hundred plus years before country of Turkey officially adopted as the
"official" name of Constantinople.

As Tim already mentioned, Istanbul was basically a Greek nickname for
Constantinople that was already commonly used by both Greeks and Turks for
the city. You appear to be having more of a hang up with the name change
than any Greeks that I've known. Are you partially Greek?


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ngtkh0$uhg$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>Um, Istanbul isn't a really a true Turkish word.

Fine. Lots of terms in Turkey mimic those from other languages.

>You appear to be having more of a hang up with the name change
>than any Greeks that I've known.

I think the name change is a lot easier to accept than the assertion
that it's no one else's business.

>Are you partially Greek?

Not to my knowledge.

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 10 May 2016 08:31:05 -0700, evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:

That's a nice version. I've been hearing that song all my
life and a quick look at the Wikipedia page shows it has been
recorded by God and Everybody.



--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell

[Al Eisner]

On Tue, 10 May 2016, Peter Lawrence wrote:

> Um, Istanbul isn't a really a true Turkish word. It's more of an alternate
> Greek nickname for Constantinople, a nickname for the city that was used for
> four hundred plus years before country of Turkey officially adopted as the
> "official" name of Constantinople.

Yes, I alluded to this in my first post on the subject. All very ironic
(especially in the context of this "thread").

[Mike D.]

On Tuesday, May 10, 2016 at 10:00:14 PM UTC-7, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2016 08:31:05 -0700, evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
> > Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> >
> >>In article <ngrvoe$t60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >>Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>Maybe it's a popular song among the crowd you like to hang out
> >>>with.
> >>
> >>For instance, it seems to be well-known on ba.food.
> >>
> >>But mainly, it would suggest popularity among the people marketing
> >>to people I hang out with.... (I'll leave "like" out of it, since
> >>that's not implied.)
> >
> > The one and only time I've ever heard it was in a YouTube video, as
> > the music that accompanies a two-minute ballet in "Bunheads."
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO10Xgl0eM
>
> That's a nice version. I've been hearing that song all my
> life and a quick look at the Wikipedia page shows it has been
> recorded by God and Everybody.

I feel that I am in my second adolescence, minus the awkwardness
of the original.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcze7EGorOk

[Al Eisner]

On Tue, 10 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> Um, well, they wanted more territory in which to be free of it? I
> mean, really Al, suppose you're a Greek person living in a city
> with a Greek name that was the "capital of the Greek empire for
> 1000 years" and they change the name to something Turkish. You
> don't think that kind of thing upsets people? How about telling
> them it's none of their business?

I'm amazed at myself for my extremely slow reaction time. I should
have responded earlier that I find your analysis of the name change
Byzantine.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>I should have responded earlier that I find your analysis of the
>name change Byzantine.

If you focus on the name change itself, rather than the exclusionary
lyric of the song, of course things seem confusing.

[Tim May]

I thought I was going to have to reword my "Istanbul = To the bul = To
the polis = to the city" point, as I thought it had been lost in the
noise.

Istanbul is indeed *much* more Greek, from the Indo-European language
family, than from any variant of Turkish or Arabic.

On another note, if Istanbul falls to the real Islamists (not the
secular Islamists), then it will be time to again summon Vlad the
Impaler.

--
Tim May

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <201605112108...@att.net>, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>Istanbul is indeed *much* more Greek, from the Indo-European
>language family, than from any variant of Turkish or Arabic.

The name Istanbul is a Turkish word, regardless of the influences
on it. To claim otherwise is absurd. If Peter wants to use
adjectives like "real" & "true" to qualify that, I accepted it, but
it's a Turkish word. It's like saying "politics" isn't English.
And of course, Turkish & Arabic are two entirely different language
families. I mean, shit, family members who speak both are sitting
right next to me at the moment.

[Tim May]

On 2016-05-12 04:36:47 +0000, Todd Michel McComb said:

> In article <201605112108...@att.net>, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>> Istanbul is indeed *much* more Greek, from the Indo-European
>> language family, than from any variant of Turkish or Arabic.
>
> The name Istanbul is a Turkish word, regardless of the influences
> on it. To claim otherwise is absurd.

No, it's Greek.


--
Tim May

[Todd Michel McComb]

I'd say it can be both, since many words are words in more than one
language, but that isn't even true here. It's gibberish in Greek.
Even if it was derived directly from Greek -- and the first two
syllables are debatable -- it's been changed.

[Ciccio]

On 5/10/2016 8:31 AM, evergene wrote:
> Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>

>> In article <ngrvoe$t60$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Maybe it's a popular song among the crowd you like to hang out
>>> with.
>>
>> For instance, it seems to be well-known on ba.food.
>>
>> But mainly, it would suggest popularity among the people marketing
>> to people I hang out with.... (I'll leave "like" out of it, since
>> that's not implied.)
>
> The one and only time I've ever heard it was in a YouTube video, as
> the music that accompanies a two-minute ballet in "Bunheads."
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO10Xgl0eM

I am amazed in doing a straw poll amongst acquaintances the number who
are familiar with the song. I have no recollection of it.

Of course, I virtually stopped listening to "Top 40" stations circa '67.
Then it was jazz on the old KJAZ and counterculture/album music on the
old KMPX "under San Francisco." Though I can see the old KMPX playing it.

I did circa '78 for awhile occasionally tune in weekly to the Dr.
Demento show who would played such songs. But I don't remember it.

Ciccio

[Tim May]

numerous sources:


eis tēn polin ‘into the city.’

Turkish name of Constantinople; it developed in Turkish 16c. as a
corruption of Greek phrase eis tan (ten) polin "in (or to) the city,"
which is how the local Greek population referred to it. Turkish folk
etymology traces the name to Islam bol "plenty of Islam." Greek polis
"city" has been adopted into Turkish as a place-name suffix -bolu.

etc.

--
Tim May

[Peter Lawrence]

The lyrics:

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul, Istanbul
Istanbul, Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul

----------


Wow! I didn't realize how exclusionary the lyrics were!

<roll eyes>


- Peter

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <nh2rq3$73g$1...@dont-email.me>,

Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>That's nobody's business but the Turks

>----------
>Wow! I didn't realize how exclusionary the lyrics were!
><roll eyes>

Totally obvious.

What I find amazing is that your reflexive need to shout down any
criticism of the status quo somehow includes this.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <201605121409...@att.net>, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>numerous sources:

Yes, the etymology you prefer is mentioned in lots of places, never
with proof. It might be right; it might not. However, regardless of
how much of the name is derived from Greek, it's still a Turkish name,
as your paste makes abundantly clear.

Meanwhile, we live in a country where many people, quite possibly
including you, will throw a temper tantrum if someone says their
own Spanish name with Spanish intonation.... It's all the same,
eh?

[Peter Lawrence]

???

Shout down ???

You make some outlandish statements, and I am just pointing out the
craziness of them. Besides, Constantinople was the status quo for hundreds
of years. It appears to me that you are more in favor of the status quo
than I am.

;)

[evergene]

Peter Lawrence wrote:

>On 5/11/16 6:37 PM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>> In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,
>> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I should have responded earlier that I find your analysis of the
>>> name change Byzantine.
>>
>> If you focus on the name change itself, rather than the exclusionary
>> lyric of the song, of course things seem confusing.
>

>The lyrics: [snipped]

>
>Wow! I didn't realize how exclusionary the lyrics were!
>
><roll eyes>

Funny how these things take off down a very unexpected path. I tacked
a couple of lines of the song onto my Costco bacon complaint as a
silly way of pointing out that sometimes bacon (Costco) isn't bacon
(TJ's). The notion of politics lurking in the song's lyrics never
occurred to me.

Good thing I didn't tack on a few lines from Snoop Dogg or Lil Wayne.

Here's the best ever version of "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOU62YXU_ug

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <nh2ttr$edm$1...@dont-email.me>,
Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>Shout down ???

That seems accurate, yes.

>Besides, Constantinople was the status quo for hundreds of years.
>It appears to me that you are more in favor of the status quo than
>I am.

Funny, because I've said throughout that my objection was to the
song lyric, not the name. Actually, it isn't funny. This is exactly
the sort of thing that prompts my remark above.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <pat9jb1n3rlggja7b...@4ax.com>,

evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>The notion of politics lurking in the song's lyrics never occurred
>to me.

Habitually noticing the politics of cultural production is an
occupational hazard for me.

[Mike D.]

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:36:32 PM UTC-7, Ciccio wrote:
> On 5/10/2016 8:31 AM, evergene wrote:
> > Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> >
> >> In article <ngrvoe$t60$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> Maybe it's a popular song among the crowd you like to hang out
> >>> with.
> >>
> >> For instance, it seems to be well-known on ba.food.
> >>
> >> But mainly, it would suggest popularity among the people marketing
> >> to people I hang out with.... (I'll leave "like" out of it, since
> >> that's not implied.)
> >
> > The one and only time I've ever heard it was in a YouTube video, as
> > the music that accompanies a two-minute ballet in "Bunheads."
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTO10Xgl0eM
>
> I am amazed in doing a straw poll amongst acquaintances the number who
> are familiar with the song. I have no recollection of it.
>
> Of course, I virtually stopped listening to "Top 40" stations circa '67.
> Then it was jazz on the old KJAZ and counterculture/album music on the
> old KMPX "under San Francisco." Though I can see the old KMPX playing it.

It was a 50s pop song. It would have been played on the stations that
played Johnny Mathis or Nat "King" Cole. Stations like my mom listened
to.

Reminiscent of Hernando's Hideaway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC05YwDUmVg

>
> I did circa '78 for awhile occasionally tune in weekly to the Dr.
> Demento show who would played such songs. But I don't remember it.
>

Prob. not weird enough for Dr. D.

[Mike D.]

I will withhold my approbation of Turkish women out of respect for
Todd's family.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/12/16 3:05 PM, evergene wrote:
> Peter Lawrence wrote:
>> On 5/11/16 6:37 PM, Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>>> In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,
>>> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I should have responded earlier that I find your analysis of the
>>>> name change Byzantine.
>>>
>>> If you focus on the name change itself, rather than the exclusionary
>>> lyric of the song, of course things seem confusing.
>>
>> The lyrics: [snipped]
>>
>> Wow! I didn't realize how exclusionary the lyrics were!
>>
>> <roll eyes>
>
> Funny how these things take off down a very unexpected path. I tacked
> a couple of lines of the song onto my Costco bacon complaint as a
> silly way of pointing out that sometimes bacon (Costco) isn't bacon
> (TJ's). The notion of politics lurking in the song's lyrics never
> occurred to me.

It never occurred to me either. But it appears that Todd can spot dark
political undertones in the most vapid of pop songs lyrics. An occupational
hazard he states.


- Peter

[Helpful person]

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 8:55:52 PM UTC-4, Peter Lawrence wrote:
>
> It never occurred to me either. But it appears that Todd can spot dark
> political undertones in the most vapid of pop songs lyrics. An occupational
> hazard he states.
>
>
> - Peter

Song lyrics can be very insidious such as the drug reference in "Puff the magic dragon"

http://www.richardfisher.com

[Ciccio]

On 5/12/2016 3:30 PM, Mike D. wrote:

> It was a 50s pop song. It would have been played on the stations that
> played Johnny Mathis or Nat "King" Cole. Stations like my mom listened
> to.

Ah yes, in the BA in the 60s a station for that genre was KABL [clang of
a cable car bell-bumper music], to which my parents were avid listeners.
I, of course, as a young person in SF back then, tuned a deaf ear to it.

>> I did circa '78 for awhile occasionally tune in weekly to the Dr.
>> Demento show who would played such songs. But I don't remember it.

> Prob. not weird enough for Dr. D.

I suppose not, when compared to "Dead Puppies," etc.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

URBAN LEGEND! The authors of the song, even decades later, unequivocally
stated the lyrics have no drug references. I remember Peter Yarrow
emphatically stating such on a talk show. Though such was an extremely
popular urban legend in the 60s, which was passed on to our progeny.

Ciccio

[Al Eisner]

On Thu, 12 May 2016, Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> In article <201605112108...@att.net>, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
>> Istanbul is indeed *much* more Greek, from the Indo-European
>> language family, than from any variant of Turkish or Arabic.
>
> The name Istanbul is a Turkish word, regardless of the influences
> on it.

Then maybe you should edit the wikipedia entry, which says otherwise.
I don't want to lose my implicit faith in wikipedia. :)

[Al Eisner]

On Thu, 12 May 2016, evergene wrote:

> Funny how these things take off down a very unexpected path. I tacked

> a couple of lines of the song onto my Costco bacon complaint ....

Thanks for the reminder. It's always good to have someone specific
to blame for a weird thread. :)

--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it
enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind
to do." >>> Benjamin Franklin (Autobiography)

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Then maybe you should edit the wikipedia entry, which says otherwise.

It didn't when this thread started, but I'm not going to go look again
now....

[Steve Pope]

That's right.

Wikipedia -- see something? Say something.


S.

[Al Eisner]

The main article on Istanbul gives several alternative possibilities, but
the "common" one is that it derives from a Greek phrase that the local
Greeks used to refer to the city. (I won't try to copy the paragraph
here, too many weird characters.) Could be otherwise.

[evergene]

How do you pronounce Don Quixote? I recently watched a video in which
Clara Blanco, a dancer from Spain, spoke about how much she enjoys
dancing in Donkey Shot. It took me several seconds to process Donkey
Shot into Don Quixote.

Here's a very well reasoned argument that Istanbul is a Turkish
derivation from Konstantinopolis.

http://pashagypsy.blogspot.com/2010/04/on-origins-of-istanbul.html