No raincheck at Whole Foods

[evergene]

Sign at the butcher counter said spare ribs were on sale. Man behind
the counter said they had sold out yesterday. I say, "Can I get a
raincheck?" Man says, "Sorry, sale price is limited to stock on hand."

When I warned him that I would post the story on ba.food, he suggested
I get a dinosaur steak instead.

[David Arnstein]

In article <m0eaq8hhdthsbehid...@4ax.com>,

Is there any food store that gives rain checks on sale items? This is
something that I remember from tagging along with my parents while
shopping. In my adult life, I have never seen a rain check transaction.
That's what the butcher was on about, right?

<whine>
Goddamn Fry's Electronics. They post these attractive flyers in my
newspaper and email. EVERY TIME I go to their brick and mortar store to
buy something advertised on the flyer, it is sold out.

My sanity is worth more to me than any amount of money. I stopped going
to Fry's brick and mortar stores. Problem solved!
</whine>
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstei...@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <ko3ee8$735$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

David Arnstein <arnstei...@pobox.com> wrote:
>Is there any food store that gives rain checks on sale items?

Safeway still gives them, but instead of getting them at the register,
as before, one has to go over to customer service and spend the
afternoon. So effectively, they no longer give them.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/28/13 4:26 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
>
> <whine>
> Goddamn Fry's Electronics. They post these attractive flyers in my
> newspaper and email. EVERY TIME I go to their brick and mortar store to
> buy something advertised on the flyer, it is sold out.
>
> My sanity is worth more to me than any amount of money. I stopped going
> to Fry's brick and mortar stores. Problem solved!
> </whine>

A partial solution would be just to check the inventory status of the sales
item on Frys.com. It's a partial solution since the inventory status on the
website isn't real time (there's a bit of a lag). But it will prevent you
from going to the store if Frys.com shows that store is already out of item
you were looking for.


- Peter

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/28/13 4:12 PM, evergene wrote:
>
> Sign at the butcher counter said spare ribs were on sale. Man behind
> the counter said they had sold out yesterday. I say, "Can I get a
> raincheck?" Man says, "Sorry, sale price is limited to stock on hand."

You should have then asked, "Why is there still a sales price sign for the
spare ribs at the butcher counter if you ran out of them yesterday? Sounds
like bait and switch to me."


- Peter

[(null)]

In article <ko3ee8$735$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
David Arnstein <arnstei...@pobox.com> wrote:

>Is there any food store that gives rain checks on sale items?

Sprouts. They had a 2-for-1 sale on Thai Kitchen coconut milk.
I asked the person at the register if they had any more. She asked if I
saw any on the self. I said "no" and she proceeded to write up a rain check.

A couple weeks later, I saw that they were 25% off and remembered
the rain check. I ran to the car, retrieved the rain check and grabbed 8 cans.
At the register, I presented the rain check and she effectively stacked
the two discounts by ringing up only 4 cans but bagging all 8.

[sf]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 17:04:05 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>
wrote:

That's an excellent come back.

--
Food is an important part of a balanced diet.

[sms]

On 5/28/2013 4:26 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
> In article <m0eaq8hhdthsbehid...@4ax.com>,
> evergene <ge...@geeaitcheekaygee.com> wrote:
>> Sign at the butcher counter said spare ribs were on sale. Man behind
>> the counter said they had sold out yesterday. I say, "Can I get a
>> raincheck?" Man says, "Sorry, sale price is limited to stock on hand."
>>
>> When I warned him that I would post the story on ba.food, he suggested
>> I get a dinosaur steak instead.
>
> Is there any food store that gives rain checks on sale items? This is
> something that I remember from tagging along with my parents while
> shopping. In my adult life, I have never seen a rain check transaction.
> That's what the butcher was on about, right?

Sprouts gives them. At one time I had a stack of about 25. Sprouts is
very bad about having advertised items in stock. They must be competing
with Fry's.

> <whine>
> Goddamn Fry's Electronics. They post these attractive flyers in my
> newspaper and email. EVERY TIME I go to their brick and mortar store to
> buy something advertised on the flyer, it is sold out.

The morning the ad comes out go online and order the item for store
pick-up. It really does work. Your order is waiting for you at the
checkout counter.

[Jon]

On Tue, 28 May 2013 18:58:21 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

The one odd thing about web ordering in-store pickup @ Fry's is that
the web asks for your credit card number. That's actually not the
weird part. The weird part is that when you get to the counter to
pick up your pre-ordered (and I *thought* pre-paid) item, they have to
swipe your card again.

I was leery that I'd be double-charged. But the clerk assured me that
only the in-store swipe would hit my card. It all worked out fine.
It's just a strange strategy. Why not charge my card when I use it
online, and pick up in-store just by showing my card? That would be a
more positive shopping experience.

Customers that don't pick up their stuff after a few days could be
charged a $5 restocking fee, or whatever - as long as it's clear when
they enter their card online.

I've only pre-ordered for pickup once or twice at Fry's, and never
anywhere else. Does this apparent double-swipe happen elsewhere?

- Jon

[sms]

It is weird, but there is actually an advantage to it. If you want to do
a price match on Amazon or B&H or other e-tailer that qualifies, it's
not too late because the credit card isn't charged when you place the order.

[Tim May]

I'm not endorsing/supporting this law, but the California Code says
this in Section 1770, which I found by using Gulag on the obvious
phrases:

(9) Advertising goods or services with intent not to sell them as
advertised.
(10) Advertising goods or services with intent not to supply
reasonably expectable demand, unless the advertisement discloses a
limitation of quantity.


Other discussions of this part of the Code clam that "reasonably
expectable demand" implies an item will be available for more than just
the first few customers. Also, the advertising must say something like
"Limited to stock on hand" or "Subject to available supply." (And not
just one rack of ribs, by the (9) language.)

--
Tim May

[Al Eisner]

I was going to suggest Safeway as an answer, so too bad. Is that
a chain-wide change in policy?
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>I was going to suggest Safeway as an answer, so too bad. Is that
>a chain-wide change in policy?

I don't know.

[sms]

I think it's better to not get them at the register because at least at
Sprouts it causes a lot of delay to those in line. You have people
getting four or five rainchecks and they're all handwritten. What they
should do is to print out rain checks for the items they're out of and
distribute them to each cashier or put them in a place where customers
can get them themselves.

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/30/13 8:10 AM, sms wrote:
>
> I think it's better to not get them at the register because at least at
> Sprouts it causes a lot of delay to those in line. You have people getting
> four or five rainchecks and they're all handwritten. What they should do is
> to print out rain checks for the items they're out of and distribute them to
> each cashier or put them in a place where customers can get them themselves.

No, what they should do is program the electronic cash register and POS
system to automatically generate a rain check on the receipt (or at Safeway
via the coupon printer that each register has). The cashier would just have
to enter the code for the item and voila, a rain check is printed out.

Save times and would permit the grocery store to track better the amount of
rain checks that have been handed out.


- Peter

[sf]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 08:10:21 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> I think it's better to not get them at the register because at least at
> Sprouts it causes a lot of delay to those in line. You have people
> getting four or five rainchecks and they're all handwritten. What they
> should do is to print out rain checks for the items they're out of and
> distribute them to each cashier or put them in a place where customers
> can get them themselves.

It should be automated and come directly from the register, just like
all those other useless pieces of paper they give you when they're
trying to get you to buy some item the next time you're in the store.

[sf]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 11:43:12 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>
wrote:

> No, what they should do is program the electronic cash register and POS
> system to automatically generate a rain check on the receipt (or at Safeway
> via the coupon printer that each register has). The cashier would just have
> to enter the code for the item and voila, a rain check is printed out.

Exactly.

>
> Save times and would permit the grocery store to track better the amount of
> rain checks that have been handed out.

That too.

[(null)]

In article <ufpfq8t9dvbmbsk8d...@4ax.com>,

sf <sf.u...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It should be automated and come directly from the register, just like
>all those other useless pieces of paper they give you when they're
>trying to get you to buy some item the next time you're in the store.

If it were all automated, then there's no need for a checkout person.
Customers could do self-checkout. :-)

[Ciccio]

On May 30, 4:53 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> It should be automated and come directly from the register, just like
> all those other useless pieces of paper they give you when they're
> trying to get you to buy some item the next time you're in the store.

They wouldn't do that because then more people would take advantage of
the sale/special. After they get the people in (that's what it is all
about, after all), they want fewer people to take advantage of such.

Ciccio

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <7968c5f2-bbac-4029...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,

Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>They wouldn't do that because then more people would take advantage of
>the sale/special. After they get the people in (that's what it is all
>about, after all), they want fewer people to take advantage of such.

So what's your opinion of this?

[sf]

I have yet to use a rain check, but I get them all the same. I don't
use coupons either.

[sms]

Sprouts use to not put expiration dates on rainchecks so they were good
indefinitely. One day I went in with my collection, some of which were
many many months old and used them. But several items I had rainchecks
for were no longer available.

[sms]

No, because the rain check would only print if the item was actually out
of stock. It also has a time-limit.

Fry's gives rainchecks but they're rather useless because they have a 30
day expiration and it's rare that the item will be back in stock in 30
days. However the manager can extend it if they feel like it.

[Ciccio]

On May 31, 7:24 am, sms <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/30/2013 8:02 PM, Ciccio wrote:
>
> > On May 30, 4:53 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >> It should be automated and come directly from the register, just like
> >> all those other useless pieces of paper they give you when they're
> >> trying to get you to buy some item the next time you're in the store.
>
> > They wouldn't do that because then more people would take advantage of
> > the sale/special. After they get the people in (that's what it is all
> > about, after all), they want fewer people to take advantage of such.
>
> No, because the rain check would only print if the item was actually out
> of stock. It also has a time-limit.

OK, there's an item on sale but it sells out and the store gives a
rain check. Then after the sale they get more in stock. People with a
valid rain check get the item at the sale price. People without a rain
check must pay the increased non-sale price. So, the fewer the people
with a rain check, the more items they can sell at the increased
price.

If you're saying that the rain checks at Fry's are never valid because
they expire, that's another issue.

Ciccio

Ciccio

[spamtrap1888]

On May 31, 8:44 am, Ciccio <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:

> OK, there's an item on sale but it sells out and the store gives a
> rain check. Then after the sale they get more in stock. People with a
> valid rain check get the item at the sale price. People without a rain
> check must pay the increased non-sale price. So, the fewer the people
> with a rain check, the more items they can sell at the increased
> price.
>
> If you're saying that the rain checks at Fry's are never valid because
> they expire, that's another issue.
>

Experience has dimmed the allure of rainchecks for me.

Years ago, Walgreen's had Weber kettles at a great price. No
indication that this was a closeout. I checked the two nearest stores,
but neither had one. They cheerfully gave me a raincheck.

No more stock came in that year.

[Ciccio]

On May 30, 10:37 pm, mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) wrote:
> In article <7968c5f2-bbac-4029-b9c2-3d05d1758...@n5g2000pbg.googlegroups.com>,

>
> Ciccio  <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >They wouldn't do that because then more people would take advantage of
> >the sale/special. After they get the people in (that's what it is all
> >about, after all), they want fewer people to take advantage of such.
>
> So what's your opinion of this?

The people involved are consenting adults. It, however, is not my idea
of fun.

Ciccio

[sms]

On 5/31/2013 8:44 AM, Ciccio wrote:

> OK, there's an item on sale but it sells out and the store gives a
> rain check. Then after the sale they get more in stock. People with a
> valid rain check get the item at the sale price. People without a rain
> check must pay the increased non-sale price. So, the fewer the people
> with a rain check, the more items they can sell at the increased
> price.

Not really. You're assuming that those without a rain check will buy the
item at the regular price. Especially at Safeway, where the non-sale,
non-Club Card prices are extremely high, there will be few sales at the
regular price.

Now at Sprouts, what I've found is that on Wednesday, when the sale
prices for two weeks are valid (their sales are eight days), they are
out of a great many of the sale priced items so you can get a rain
check. Then the next day you can go back and all the sale price items
are back in stock, so you're able to get the item at the sale price
_and_ a raincheck. But what does the store care? You're still buying the
item, twice in fact, and they're still making money at the sale price,
and if not for the sale price you probably wouldn't buy the item at all.

[Steve Pope]

I have a distant memory of some grocery chain -- probably Safeway
or Albertson's, since that's where I was mostly shopping in those
days -- printing the rain checks on the same receipt as was
generated for your purchases. It would list the item, with quantity zero,
price, and say "rain check". The cashier would do this by scanning
the weekly discount sheet. It was no trouble at all.

Steve

[pfraser]

Steve Pope wrote:
> I have a distant memory of some grocery chain -- probably Safeway
> or Albertson's, since that's where I was mostly shopping in those
> days -- printing the rain checks on the same receipt as was
> generated for your purchases.

I think Alpha Beta used to do that.

[Ciccio]

On May 31, 12:04 pm, sms <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Not really. You're assuming that those without a rain check will buy the
> item at the regular price.

A number will do so. Apparently, it is a good many, as the strategy
has been used by stores for a long time.

Ciccio

[sf]

On Fri, 31 May 2013 12:04:30 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> if not for the sale price you probably wouldn't buy the item at all.

That would be me.

I have a similar problem with coupons. Usually, the product I have a
coupon for is still a higher price with the coupon than a similar not
so fancy brand that I DO buy costs. Why would I spend more just
because I have a coupon that makes it a few cents less than usual?
That's dumb. The other coupon problem I've had is getting coupons for
brand new products that are not stocked and customer service has no
clue when it's coming in. If it's not in the store while I'm looking
for it - I will never look for it again and they have lost me as a
potential customer. I am not the type of consumer who awaits new
products with bated breath and pounces on them when they become
available. If the manufacturer sends me a coupon, it had better be
available if they want me to buy that product - because I'm not
looking for it again.

[sf]

On Fri, 31 May 2013 12:35:33 -0700, pfraser <pete_...@comcast.net>
wrote:

So, the technology is there but most grocery stores opt not to use it.
Figgers.

[sms]

"Tell a friend."

[pfraser]

"The Savings Don't Stop"

[SMS]

I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
was in Alpha Beta and there was a dead mouse in the meat case and
another shopper pointed to it and said to her, "tell a friend."

[Tim May]

They never redeemed my raincheck for Suzanne Somers!

(several BA and Calif. links, and even a food link. Born in the Bay
Area, high school and college in the Bay Area (even a campus Ciccio may
know about), three seminal Calif. movies ("Bullet," "American
Grafitti," "Magnum Force") (blonde in the convertible in AG, topless
blond in the rooftop pool in MF).

And Alpha Beta started in Calif.

She also has 2 degrees of separation from that iconic California fad,
the Mood Ring.

(Anyone notice the horrible abbreviation of California as "Cali"
(pronounced Callie) which has become so common? As bad as Frisco.)


--
Tim May

[sf]

On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
> was in Alpha Beta

I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.

[Hans Klager]

On Fri, 31 May 2013 22:13:00 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
>> was in Alpha Beta
>
> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.

They were common in Southern California. The Southern
California Alphabeta bought Ralphs grocery, some wags then called
the combined chain Ralphabeta.


--
"A squirrel dying in front of your house may be more relevant to your
interests right now than people dying in Africa." Mark Zuckerberg, 6/15/2010

[sms]

On 5/31/2013 10:13 PM, sf wrote:
> On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
>> was in Alpha Beta
>
> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.

Lucky took them over around here. If there was already a nearby Lucky
then the Alpha Beta property was sold off. Marina Foods in Cupertino
used to be an Alpha Beta. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Beta>

[Tim May]

On 2013-06-01 03:13:57 +0000, Tim May said:
> (several BA and Calif. links, and even a food link. Born in the Bay
> Area, high school and college in the Bay Area (even a campus Ciccio may
> know about), three seminal Calif. movies ("Bullet," "American
> Grafitti," "Magnum Force") (blonde in the convertible in AG, topless
> blond in the rooftop pool in MF).

Sorry for the typo: "Bullitt." Dito [Sic} for "Grafitti" or "Graffiti"
or "Grafiti" or whatever. Magnum, Force, American, and Blonde I'm
pretty sure of.

--
Tim May

[Tim May]

On 2013-06-01 05:29:39 +0000, Hans Klager said:

> On Fri, 31 May 2013 22:13:00 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
>>> was in Alpha Beta
>>
>> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.
>
> They were common in Southern California. The Southern
> California Alphabeta bought Ralphs grocery, some wags then called
> the combined chain Ralphabeta.

They were also very common in Northern California, at least in the 70s
and 80s. I lived about 100 yards from one on Mathilda Avenue in
Sunnyvale and it later became a Lucky, then perhaps an Albertson's,
then whatever that unholy alliance morphed into. (Lucky in some areas,
FoodMaxx in others, etc.)

The whole Ralph's deal involved a complicated economic/legal trade
amongst the dominant Western U.S. markets (if one Gulags these stores,
one finds strong connections in the early years amongst Safeway,
Albertson's, Ralph's, Skagg's, OSCO, Alpha Beta, Lucky, etc.).

Ralph's briefly entered the Northern California market. I don't know
which NCal markets entered SoCal in trade. In any case, the Ralph's
invasion of the North ended several years ago and some of the stores
were bought by Safeway, some were turned into Lucky, and some were
turned into FoodMaxx (the one in my area has since been turned into
something else, something like "Mex-a-Pak" or some similar place where
Mexicans are expected to pick their cans off of pallets and then check
them out themselves and then pack them themselves....a good deal if the
savings were good, but they are not good. Stupid Mexicans.)

I increasingly avoid the Mexican- and food stamp-dominated places like
Safeway and Lucky (in my area Food Maxx and its ilk).

Costco is degenerating, as they let more Mexicans and food stamp
("SNAP") dirts into the store. They used to deny food stamp beggars,
now they culitate them. It won't be too long before we have drive-by
shootings in Aisle 34.

Whole Foods is like antimatter to the Mexican and the negro. Nuff said.

Trader Joe's is also seen as a whitey place. Works for me.

Mostly I pick up daily (if I am out, which is about ever third day or
so) greens and fresh items at Deluxe Foods in Aptos. This is kind of a
Whole Foods place, except with national brands. Which is fine with me,
as I would rather have several choices in saurkraut or horseradish as
compared to "Trader Johan's Special Sauerkraut" or "365 Brand Original
Horseradish."

In these three exemplars, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and Deluxe Foods
(Aptos), these stores are apparently radioactive to the Mexicans,
Salavadorans, Hondurans, Haitians, Nigerians, and, thank Baal, the
American negroes.

It's like having a protective shield.


--
Tim May

[Tim May]

The history is pretty complex. I followed part of it in my area.

Lucky was absorbed into Albertson's in many areas. (Perhaps not
all....I speak of my area, the Santa Cruz-Monterey area.)

Ralph's took over big parts of this combine. Several Albertson's, some
fomerly Lucky, became Ralph's.

Ralph's eventually withdrew from Northern California. (This may have
involved deals about Southern California...I didn't track the details.)

Some of the Northern California stores reverted to the Lucky name, some
became Food Maxx (or Pack Maxx or U-Sort-U-Save-Sort-Of, I forget their
exact names....I'm joking but the U-Pak-U-Save, Food Maxx, Pak-N-Save
confusion is very real).

In my area of Santa Cruz-Capitola-Aptos-Watsonville, some Lucky stores
became Albertson's became FoodMaxx. Others shut down and then became
Whole Foods. One became a TJ Maxx, not to be confused with Food Maxx.

Alpha Beta, Lucky, and Albertson's are now gone in my area. They once
were prevalent.

But we have Whole Foods, Shopper's Corner, Costco, New Leaf, Deluxe,
and Trader Joe's for the white people, and Mi Pueblo, La Princessa,
Mercado, Latin Kings, Nortenos, and Surenos for the Mexicans. Nob Hill
is mostly for the whites. Safeway is increasingly for the food stamp
people, the students, and the Mexicans. And for the 24-hour meth heads.


--
Tim May

[Peter Lawrence]

On 5/31/13 10:13 PM, sf wrote:
>
> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.

As of 1973, there were quite a few Alpha Beta's located in the Bay Area,
though none were located in San Francisco. The closest Alpha Betas to San
Francisco were the ones in San Mateo and Mill Valley.

http://www.groceteria.com/store/regional-chains/a-e/alpha-beta/1973-locations/


- Peter

[Ciccio]

On May 31, 10:13 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>

> wrote:
>
> > I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
> > was in Alpha Beta
>
> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.

Back around that time there was one in Alameda.

Ciccio

[Ciccio]

On May 31, 8:13 pm, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:
> They never redeemed my raincheck for Suzanne Somers!

Suzanne Somers and my older cousin, with whom I would always tagalong,
were acquainted and they had a common hangout. That’s when she was
unknown in her late teens/early 20s and I got to meet her several
times back then. Also, her uncle had an old corner grocery store I
later would go to. After she became famous he had magazine covers,
photos, etc (not nudes) of her wall-to-wall. They were all autographed
to him by her.

I have to say even though I was only about 12 back when I met her, she
is the only woman to this day who has ever literally taken my breath
away by merely talking to me in passing. To me then, she was beyond
being a “hottie” she was enthralling.

Heh. Some years later, when I saw American Graffiti, I was really able
to empathize with Curt (Richard Dreyfuss) when he saw her. To answer
your question, it’s pretty common local knowledge she went to
Capuchino High, as kids called it, “Cap.” I had a few friends who went
to Cap. Many years later, two of my cousins went there. An occassional
local argument was whether Cap was named after an Italian. Nope. It’s
named after a Spaniard.

It’s been many years since I’ve thought about all that, so thanks for
jogging pleasant memories.

Ciccio

[Peter Lawrence]

And as Ciccio pointed out in another post (and confirmed by the link above)
there was also an Alpha Beta supermarket in Alameda.


- Peter

[sf]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 05:29:39 +0000 (UTC), Hans Klager
<hans....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 31 May 2013 22:13:00 -0700, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
> >> was in Alpha Beta
> >
> > I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.
>
> They were common in Southern California. The Southern
> California Alphabeta bought Ralphs grocery, some wags then called
> the combined chain Ralphabeta.

LOL - Funny! We don't have Ralph's on this side of the Bay. I think
I might have been inside one once or twice at Incline Village, but
that's it for me and it was decades ago.

[sf]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 01:09:41 -0700, Tim May <tc...@att.net> wrote:

> Ralph's took over big parts of this combine. Several Albertson's, some
> fomerly Lucky, became Ralph's.
>
> Ralph's eventually withdrew from Northern California. (This may have
> involved deals about Southern California...I didn't track the details.)
>
> Some of the Northern California stores reverted to the Lucky name, some
> became Food Maxx (or Pack Maxx or U-Sort-U-Save-Sort-Of, I forget their
> exact names....I'm joking but the U-Pak-U-Save, Food Maxx, Pak-N-Save
> confusion is very real).

I thought there was one lone Ralph's in the East Bay, but going to
their web site and looking for locations only brought up Quik Stop on
that side of the Bay and FoodsCo here... neither of which are the type
of grocery store I want to shop at.

[sf]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 02:18:48 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>
wrote:

Thanks, that explains why I don't recall ever seeing them. I wouldn't
put that much effort into shopping at a grocery chain and if they
weren't next to the road I was driving on from A to B, they didn't
exist.

[sf]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 09:59:00 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>
wrote:

It doesn't matter. They weren't here and I don't travel just to shop
for everyday groceries.

[sf]

Why does that matter? Alameda if off the beaten track even now AFAIC.

[spamtrap1888]

On May 31, 10:13 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>

> wrote:
>
> > I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
> > was in Alpha Beta
>
> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.
>

There was one at the corner of Leigh and Southwest in San Jose. It's
now a DD's Discounts.

[spamtrap1888]

Those are Krogers, like Fred Meyers now are in the PNW. FoodsCo is
kitty corner to Rainbow Grocery should you want to take a look. I was
curious and noticed some Kroger branded products.

[spamtrap1888]

On Jun 1, 2:01 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 07:32:11 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
>

> <frances...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On May 31, 10:13 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com>
> > > wrote:
>

> > > I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.
>
> > Back around that time there was one in Alameda.
>
> Why does that matter?  Alameda if off the beaten track even now AFAIC.

That is the charm of Alameda. Until the navy moved out and some
redevelopment happened, it was literally the land that time forgot. A
friend's dad who worked in downtown Oakland lived there -- he would go
in the back yard, read the paper by the koi pond, and instantly relax.

[Steve Pope]

It has its ups and downs; currently there is an opinion that the
resurgence of Oakland as a food/drink/restaurant scene has sapped
business from Alameda.

We still head there sometimes because the Baron's butcher is
first-rate.

Steve

[Christine Dabney]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 09:59:00 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>
wrote:

There was also one in Pinole when I moved to the Richmond area back in
1985. It became a Lucky not too long after that.

Christine
--
http://nightstirrings.blogspot.com

[sms]

On 6/1/2013 1:46 PM, sf wrote:

> LOL - Funny! We don't have Ralph's on this side of the Bay. I think
> I might have been inside one once or twice at Incline Village, but
> that's it for me and it was decades ago.

The store in Incline is Raley's, which owns Nob Hill. There are no
Ralph's in the Bay Area.

[Ciccio]

On Jun 1, 2:01 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Why does that matter? Alameda if off the beaten track even now AFAIC.

I don’t know to what “track” you’re referring, but back at the time
when Alpha Beta was in Alameda, the Naval Air Station, the shipyards,
etc., were going full blast and it was bustling in Alameda. Also,
there were a good many commuters, between San Francisco and Alameda,
myself included.
I commuted from San Francisco to Alameda for about 3 years, and from
Alameda to San Francisco for about 4 years. It’s about the same
commute as between San Francisco and, say San Mateo.[shrug].

Of course, Alameda has changed since NAS Alameda, etc. closed about
15+ years ago. Coincidentally the Alpha Beta chain went broke about
the same time NAS closed.

Anyhow, to answer your question we are discussing Alpha Beta and its
era back then, NOT NOW. So, that's why it's relevant to mentioning
Alameda and Alpha Beta BACK THEN.

Ciccio

Ciccio

[Peter Lawrence]

On 6/1/13 1:58 PM, sf wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 02:18:48 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/31/13 10:13 PM, sf wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.
>>
>> As of 1973, there were quite a few Alpha Beta's located in the Bay Area,
>> though none were located in San Francisco. The closest Alpha Betas to San
>> Francisco were the ones in San Mateo and Mill Valley.
>>
>> http://www.groceteria.com/store/regional-chains/a-e/alpha-beta/1973-locations/
>
> Thanks, that explains why I don't recall ever seeing them.

But at least you should have heard about them since they aired commercials
on the local Bay Area television stations.

Commercials like this one from 1982:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL8wmXa2Xls


- Peter

[Peter Lawrence]

Or this commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCUY-F98vk


- Peter

[sf]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:28:41 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

I could have sworn there was one somewhere in the East Bay, but
couldn't find it today - so it's either gone now or never existed.

[sf]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 17:11:03 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
<spamtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Those are Krogers, like Fred Meyers now are in the PNW. FoodsCo is
> kitty corner to Rainbow Grocery should you want to take a look. I was
> curious and noticed some Kroger branded products.

I'm pretty sure I've been there. It's a pack it yourself type place
isn't it? I don't do that. I don't self-check and I don't pack my
own bags, which are two of the many reasons why I won't miss Fresh &
Easy when it finally goes tits up.

[sf]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 23:48:33 -0700, Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com>

Reread what I said and stop jumping to conclusions.

[sf]

We looked very closely at moving to Alameda 15-20 years ago, but it
would have meant a lateral move price-wise into a smaller house that
needed as much or more remodeling than our house did at the time. The
only thing I would have gained was sun.

[sf]

On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 23:31:13 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio
<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:

> On Jun 1, 2:01 pm, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why does that matter? Alameda if off the beaten track even now AFAIC.
>
> I don’t know to what “track” you’re referring, but back at the time
> when Alpha Beta was in Alameda, the Naval Air Station, the shipyards,
> etc., were going full blast and it was bustling in Alameda. Also,
> there were a good many commuters, between San Francisco and Alameda,
> myself included.

The track I'm referring to is MINE, not yours. I didn't even know an
Alpha-Beta grocery store existed there when I worked in Alameda, 15-20
years ago - so it wasn't *that* big of a big deal.

> I commuted from San Francisco to Alameda for about 3 years, and from
> Alameda to San Francisco for about 4 years. It’s about the same
> commute as between San Francisco and, say San Mateo.[shrug].

Am I supposed to be impressed? It sounds like you had a lot of free
time on your hands if you grocery shopped in Alameda when you were
commuting back and forth.

>
> Of course, Alameda has changed since NAS Alameda, etc. closed about
> 15+ years ago. Coincidentally the Alpha Beta chain went broke about
> the same time NAS closed.
>
> Anyhow, to answer your question we are discussing Alpha Beta and its
> era back then, NOT NOW. So, that's why it's relevant to mentioning
> Alameda and Alpha Beta BACK THEN.
>

Yawn.

[sf]

Thanks. San Jose was never never land for me until a very few years
ago.

[sms]

IIRC, Alpha Beta was a step above Lucky and Safeway in terms of quality,
more like a Raley's/Nob Hill. Their Skagg's Alpha Beta stores were like
the Raley's in Incline Village, with sporting goods, automotive, etc..

[Ciccio]

On Jun 2, 2:18 am, sf <s...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2013 23:31:13 -0700 (PDT), Ciccio

> The track I'm referring to is MINE, not yours.

Like you said then...What does that matter?

> Alpha-Beta grocery store existed there when I worked in Alameda, > 15-20 years ago - so it wasn't *that* big of a big deal.

So in other words you have poor situational awareness.

> Am I supposed to be impressed?

No, as it was nothing special, like I said, lots of people were doing
such. That is, regardless of whatever YOUR track was, it was not THE
track.

> It sounds like you had a lot of free
> time on your hands if you grocery shopped in Alameda when you were
> commuting back and forth.

When I commuted it was a good use of time while the traffic died down.

> Yawn.

Indeed.

Ciccio

[Al Eisner]

On Fri, 31 May 2013, sms wrote:

> On 5/31/2013 10:13 PM, sf wrote:
>> On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:02:25 -0700, SMS <scharf...@geemail.com>

>> wrote:
>>
>>> I remember a secretary at my job back in 1982 was telling me that she
>>> was in Alpha Beta
>>

>> I don't think I've ever even SEEN an Alpha Beta grocery store.
>

> Lucky took them over around here. If there was already a nearby Lucky then
> the Alpha Beta property was sold off. Marina Foods in Cupertino used to be an
> Alpha Beta. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Beta>

Years ago there was an Alpha Beta in the middle of a residential area
of Redwood City (along Roosevelt). It was a decent general grocery store,
although I wouldn't buy meats there. It too later turned into a Marina,
but the Marina always seemed to have half-empty shelves (not out-of-
stock, but simply a reduced selection), and was pretty much worthless.
It eventually closed. The location is now a Rite-Aid (but as I recall
it's not the same building).
--

Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

[sms]

On 6/3/2013 11:51 AM, Al Eisner wrote:

> Years ago there was an Alpha Beta in the middle of a residential area
> of Redwood City (along Roosevelt). It was a decent general grocery store,
> although I wouldn't buy meats there. It too later turned into a Marina,
> but the Marina always seemed to have half-empty shelves (not out-of-
> stock, but simply a reduced selection), and was pretty much worthless.
> It eventually closed. The location is now a Rite-Aid (but as I recall
> it's not the same building).

I recall that store from when I lived in RWC in the early 1980's.

There used to be a lot of smaller supermarkets in residential
neighborhoods but most of them are long gone. Near me, there was All
American Market though it changed to Tin Tin before we moved to the
neighborhood. Now it's been empty for a few years. I can think of a
bunch of empty former Lucky and Safeway locations that were in
residential neighborhoods. You can often see old Safeway locations that
are now used for something else since the Safeway architecture used to
be distinctive.

[Al Eisner]

But note that in (partial) Greek that would be "from Alpha to Beta".
Q.E.D.

[Al Eisner]

Amazingly, the Key Market (a smaller super-market) across the road from
that RWC ALpha Beta is still there. They have a decent selection, but
their prices are not low, so I don't quite understand how they survive.

[Todd Michel McComb]

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.1...@iris02.slac.stanford.edu>,

Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Amazingly, the Key Market (a smaller super-market) across the road
>from that RWC ALpha Beta is still there. They have a decent
>selection, but their prices are not low, so I don't quite understand
>how they survive.

I have no idea if this is the case for this particular business,
but it's not at all hard to "survive" in this area if you have
long-term ownership of the property. Then it becomes a matter of
when the generation of the family who is making the decisions loses
interest in the business, or wants to sell the property to make
that one-time killing.

To take a semi-concrete example, if a neighboring restaurant is
paying $20k/mo in rent, and you're paying $1k/year in property
taxes, the sense of "competition" there is rather askew.

[Hans Klager]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:27:05 -0700, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> Amazingly, the Key Market (a smaller super-market) across the road from
> that RWC ALpha Beta is still there. They have a decent selection, but
> their prices are not low, so I don't quite understand how they survive.

Their prices seem OK to me. Their checkout line is faster
than Costco and you don't need to prove you are good enough to shop
there.

--
"A squirrel dying in front of your house may be more relevant to your
interests right now than people dying in Africa." Mark Zuckerberg, 6/15/2010

[Peter Lawrence]

On 6/3/13 2:27 PM, Al Eisner wrote:
>
> Amazingly, the Key Market (a smaller super-market) across the road from
> that RWC ALpha Beta is still there. They have a decent selection, but
> their prices are not low, so I don't quite understand how they survive.

I wonder the same thing about Mollie Stone's in Palo Alto. Their prices are
higher than Whole Foods, Piazza's and even Draeger's, yet people still shop
there.


- Peter

[sf]

On Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:24:43 -0700, Al Eisner
<eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

> But note that in (partial) Greek that would be "from Alpha to Beta".
> Q.E.D.

Heh.

[Tim May]

On 2013-06-03 22:45:17 +0000, Hans Klager said:

> On Mon, 3 Jun 2013 14:27:05 -0700, Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Amazingly, the Key Market (a smaller super-market) across the road from
>> that RWC ALpha Beta is still there. They have a decent selection, but
>> their prices are not low, so I don't quite understand how they survive.
>
> Their prices seem OK to me. Their checkout line is faster
> than Costco and you don't need to prove you are good enough to shop
> there.

We have a different reaction to Costco, I think. I think of Costco as
the lumpenproletariat store....pretty much all of the working-class
folks in Santa Cruz County seem to appear (I obviously have no way of
confirming this, and this is a broad brush impression in any case) seem
to do some of their shopping at Costco.

As I do, obviously.

But I think places like Shopper's Corner and Deluxe Foods (Rio del Mar)
are much more "exclusive." (They are roughly equivalent to some stores
I know of in the South Bay: Lunardi's, the old Cosentino's, Mollie
Stone's, Draeger's, Andronico's (do they still exist?)

And of course Whole Foods and Trader Joe's exist in their particular
niches. Dominant niches.

I wouldn't put Costco in even the top half of exclusive places. Gone
are the days when the dirt people couldn't get Price Club/Costo
memberships. Now just about anybody with a weekly paycheck and $45 for
a yearly membership gets in.

At my Costco, a lot of Mexicans. Versus a lot fewer Mexicans at TJ's
(which is radioactive to them), Whole Foods (even more so).

--
Tim May

[Tim May]

Convenience. Travel time.

All of those places are really close together (by my metrics, where the
nearest bullshit Safeway is 7 miles away and Deluxe Foods in Rio del
Mar, a Drager-level store is slight further away but takes about 50%
more time to get to, because of the mountain roads).

Having shopped at that California Ave. Mollie Stone's, I think a lot of
the shoppers are just not very price sensitive (being Palo Alto
bucks-up) and not interested in driving to Piazzas several miles away.
For instance.

--
Tim May

[spamtrap1888]

My experience is the opposite: Draegers > Whole Foods > Mollie Stone.

[Peter Lawrence]

The last time I checked, Mollie Stone had the higher prices for milk and
other dairy products.

Whole Foods actually some decent prices for dairy products plus some
non-perishable items too. It's their produce that's the greatest ripoff.
Very high prices, marginal quality -- especially considering the price.


- Peter

[Helpful person]

On Jun 4, 1:31 pm, spamtrap1888 <spamtrap1...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> My experience is the opposite: Draegers > Whole Foods > Mollie Stone.

I agree, Draegers is more expensive than whole foods. But their
quality is much higher.

http://www.richardfisher.com