Round Table Pizza To Avoid.
The Ranger
gourmands that review this group); it's about a total breakdown in customer
service and which fast-food establishment to avoid.
We ordered pizza from the Round Table Pizza restaurant on Prospect Road in
West San Jose last night. I ordered two medium pizzas for pick-up. The
person taking my order had difficulty understanding "double pepperoni" and
repeatedly inserted "sausage" as a topping. It didn't matter that I
confirmed the order three times, stating that I didn't want sausage... But
the poor service doesn't stop there.
My wife went to pick up the order -- coincidentally, the order was placed
under her name -- which also stumped the phone jockey -- within the 25
minute window. When they confirmed the order with her, sausage was still
included in the order. When she stated that sausage was not ordered and
that order was for double pepperoni, the cashier became indignant. He
called the phone number provided (which had her name next to it) and asked
for my wife. When I stated that she had gone to pick up the order and
should be there, I was hung up on. I called them back -- I detest being
hung up on -- and asked to speak to the manager on duty. I was placed on
hold for 10 minutes. During this time, my wife was also explaining that
they needed to fix the order or she would not pay for it. The manager
finally agreed that the order needed to be changed, when my wife noticed
that neither pizza had been sent through their oven -- remember that they
stated that the pizza would be ready within 25 minutes and it was already 30
minutes.
To calm my wife, the manager offered her a "courtesy drink" (a soft drink)
while she waited for the pizzas to be cooked (they were "unusually busy.")
She declined and left.
When the manager finally picked up the phone, I was not too cordial. I'd
asked why I was hung up on and was told that the employee that called to
confirm my order had not meant to slam down the phone (yeah, right...) and
that they would be talked to. That our order was "called in wrong" (yeah,
right... I only know two types of pizza; sausage isn't one of them...) And
that the person that took my order was new (yeah, right...) I love the
axiom, "The customer is never right and you should shotgun blame."
He also asked when someone would be there to pick up the order. When I
explained that my wife was probably there waiting, he got quiet. He then
asked if someone else would be in to pick up our order when it was done...
I made the executive decision that no one would be back if she was not there
and ended the conversation. [We received two more calls asking for someone
to come in and get our pizzas -- "no" seems to be a difficult concept when
applied to them.]
A moment later I received a call from her explaining what had happened and
that we were going to get something else for dinner.
This was the final [bad] experience at this Round Table. There are others
that are definitely more convenient, actually offer good service, and don't
nearly have as many problems.
Hopefully enough people will have a bad enough experience at their place to
warrant a change in management (and attitudes.)
Allan Schaffer
>We ordered pizza from the Round Table Pizza restaurant on Prospect Road in
Is this the Round Table at Prospect & Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd? (Facing
Saratoga-Sunnyvale?)
If so, I can only triple-echo your tale. They are awful there, never
getting orders right, never knowing what the hell is going on. It's
disappointing personally since I worked there briefly when I was a
kid. And with "last night" being a weeknight, _none_ of the stuff he
told you about being extra busy is very likely. Not for that
location.
Anyways -- for what I'd consider the best pizza in the south bay,
(and _not_ a poorly attempted Chicago or NY style, thank god!) go
directly across the street to Jake's Restaurant. Their large
Pepperoni & Mushroom with extra sauce is excellent.
Allan
--
Allan Schaffer al...@sgi.com
Silicon Graphics http://reality.sgi.com/allan
Karen O'Mara
> To calm my wife, the manager offered her a "courtesy drink" (a soft drink)
> while she waited for the pizzas to be cooked (they were "unusually busy.")
> She declined and left.
Why didn't she wait for the pizza?
It seems that with you on the phone, and she at the pizza place, it was
confusing for everyone. I think she should've cooled her heels, had the soda,
and returned home with the pizza that you were ordering.
Karen
--
"Time's fun when you're having flies."
-Kermit
Dan Abel
<cuhul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> person taking my order had difficulty understanding "double pepperoni" and
> repeatedly inserted "sausage" as a topping. It didn't matter that I
> confirmed the order three times, stating that I didn't want sausage... But
> the poor service doesn't stop there.
Our local Round Table is generally pretty good, although it has varied
over the 20 years that we have and haven't gone there (we didn't go there
when they had the pre-made cracker crusts).
However, from my online dictionary:
pep€per€o€ni (pRp1ú-rĹ2nT) n. pl. pep€per€o€nis 1. A highly spiced pork
and beef sausage. 2. A slice of this type of sausage.
[ Italian peperoni, pl. of peperone pimento, red pepper, augmentative of
pepe pepper from Latin piper; See pepper ]
--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
ab...@sonoma.edu
David Braun
<ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
>The Ranger wrote:
>
>> To calm my wife, the manager offered her a "courtesy drink" (a soft drink)
>> while she waited for the pizzas to be cooked (they were "unusually busy.")
>> She declined and left.
>
>Why didn't she wait for the pizza?
>
>It seems that with you on the phone, and she at the pizza place, it was
>confusing for everyone. I think she should've cooled her heels, had the soda,
>and returned home with the pizza that you were ordering.
IMO, you are cutting these guys way too much slack. I, too, would
have left in a huff after that kind of treatment. This doesn't even
qualify as bad service--the word "service" doesn't apply here!
Abuse is more like it. I also would have contacted the headquarters
office to complain (although if they are a franchise, it probably
wouldn't do any good).
David Braun
Todd Michel McComb
>IMO, you are cutting these guys way too much slack. I, too, would
>have left in a huff after that kind of treatment. This doesn't even
>qualify as bad service--the word "service" doesn't apply here!
>Abuse is more like it. I also would have contacted the headquarters
>office to complain (although if they are a franchise, it probably
>wouldn't do any good).
As long as we're bashing.... The last time I ordered from them a
few years ago, they lost my phone order. After a couple of hours
of waiting for delivery, I called back, learned they had no such
order, and asked to speak to the manager. After the obligatory
period on hold, the manager came on with a very condescending tone
to tell me I was lying and that, no, they wouldn't make my pizza
now. It would be another 2 hour wait for delivery.
In fairness to them, I imagine that any big chain is going to have
events like this that one can list off.... This was with the
Shoreline Round Table in Mountain View.
It was easy for me to stop ordering, though, because it sure seemd
to me that as soon as they started their "quality ingredients" ads,
the quality of their ingredients fell. Which would be too typical
of modern day marketing genius.
Mike Murphy
cuhul...@yahoo.com says...
> This isn't about the tragedy of eating Round Table Pizza (for the pizza
> gourmands that review this group); it's about a total breakdown in customer
> service and which fast-food establishment to avoid.
>
Seems like their "service" is going to hell all over the place. The one
on Camden near Union in San Jose is on my boycott list. In the last few
times or so I'd tried to eat a pizza from there:
Lost delivery order
Delivered pizza w/ no sauce ( I took it in, they said "Oh, that's where
it went")
Called in order while driving home. Arrived at the time it was due, it
wasn't cooked yet. I waited.. 40 mins later, I asked what's going on,
they had been calling the wrong number, not the one they gave me.
Walked in, ordered, waited.. waited.. waited.. same "called the wrong
number", wanted me to take the pizza that had been in the warming oven
for 30 mins
Called in, went to pick up, they'd thrown it in the warming oven so that
1/2 the pizza was outside the box. Had to wait while they baked a new
one.
Needless to say, I've given up on this one, which sucks since I do like
RT pizza. I've just never seen such an incompetent staff at a
restaurant. Now if I'm hungry for RT, I pick up at another location
several miles away.
Did something change at Round Table in the last year so they don't care
about service at all?
--
No Mail please.. Have a reply, post it here.
Hotblack Desiato
al...@southpark.engr.sgi.com (Allan Schaffer) wrote:
> "The Ranger" <cuhul...@yahoo.com> said..
> >We ordered pizza from the Round Table Pizza restaurant on Prospect
Road in
> >West San Jose last night.
>
> Saratoga-Sunnyvale?)
>
> If so, I can only triple-echo your tale. They are awful there
[both tales of woe snipped]
Let me weigh in with my experience at this
particular location... I have ordered a
pizza from them twice in the past 9 months;
the first time on Halloween night.
Now I can imagine Halloween is prob'ly a
busy night for pizza joints, so I wasn't
particularly surprised when they tell me
it will be three hours to deliver; but it
will _only_ be an hour-and-a-half if I
want to come in and pick it up.
No problemo, I said... Pick-up it is.
After placing my order, I wait the
specified hour-and-a-half (time which is
filled with many festive ghosts and goblins
ringing the doorbell); I then depart for
Round Table, leaving my spousal unit in
charge of the candy bowl & front door.
When I get there, the place is mobbed
with people waiting for their pizzas,
many of them visibly irritated. After
waiting in line for 20 minutes, it's
my turn... I pay the bill and am told
that it will be "a couple more minutes,
your pizza is still in the oven".
After 30 more minutes (which is 2.5 hours
since I placed the first phone call) I
ask about my pizza, and am told it
is still in the oven! That must be
one burned pizza, I say.
So to while away the time, I return to
the video game I was playing in the back
of the restaurant... and resume my quest
to save the world/destroy the world (I
forget which) with my laser space-ship.
After another 15 minutes, when my quarters
run out, I ask again for my pie and it's
still in the oven!
At this point, he breaks out the big guns
by offering me the "complimentary soda for
my trouble". No dice, slick. I want my
pizza!
I finally go over this guy's head to the
manager (which I prob'ly should have done
from the very beginning), and I tell him
that my pizza has been "cooking" for the
entire hour that I have been in the store
and what gives, jack? He is forced to admit
that they have no record of my order (except
for the cash register receipt), and they
will begin making it now! Holy schneiky's!
I should have made a giant fuss, but given
how busy they were on that particular holiday
evening, I let it go... I thought he might
offer me some restitution on either the current
pizza or perhaps a future pizza, but negative.
In any case, after another fifteen minutes of
twiddling my joystick in the back (smirk), I
have my pizza and I head homeward. The bad news
is I have missed all the rest of the ghosts and
goblins (suck!) and my wife called the highway
patrol because she figured I was dead after
being gone for so long (double suck!) When I
explain to her what happened in a suitably
whiny tone, her vitriol cools somewhat. I tell
her that I reached stage 5 in Raiden Fighters
and she is unimpressed. Must have been her
hunger that kept her from recognizing the
magnitude of my accomplishment.
After about five months, I was willing to give
them one more shot, so I ordered a pizza on like
a Tuesday night. When they again lost the order
and had to begin making it only when I actually
got there to pay for it, that was the last straw...
Now I go to Willow Street at Westgate Mall for my
pizzas. Upside: My pizza is always ready 10
minutes after I order it. Downside: No video games.
Take care,
Mike
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Jack Hamilton
(it's in the Galleria in midtown Sacramento) sound good by comparison.
I never had to wait more than 15 minutes after they said it would be
ready. That's still not acceptable. They put the orders in a computer,
so they know exactly how many pizzas in line and how long each will
take. The pizza place I know patronize seems to be able to make
accurate estimates. So what is it with Round Table? Are there any
Round Table Pizza Parlors out there which get orders right and at the
right time?
By the way, what's the marginal cost to a store for a free fountain
drink? As much as 15 cents?
Roger B.A. Klorese
<ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
>It seems that with you on the phone, and she at the pizza place, it was
>confusing for everyone. I think she should've cooled her heels, had the soda,
>and returned home with the pizza that you were ordering.
And when did you get the word WELCOME tattooed on your back? You sure
sound like a doormat to me.
Think about it: they botched the order contents, and failed to note
the correction THREE times. They weren't ready on time. And they
refused to listen to anything from anyone about what had been ordered.
And, oh, yeah, don't forget the hung-up-on part.
Your suggested behavior is sanction for incompetence.
Steve Wertz
: On Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:55:01 -0700, Karen O'Mara
: <ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
:>It seems that with you on the phone, and she at the pizza place, it was
:>confusing for everyone. I think she should've cooled her heels, had the soda,
:>and returned home with the pizza that you were ordering.
: And when did you get the word WELCOME tattooed on your back? You sure
: sound like a doormat to me.
Ah, Roger graces us with his soothing tones, again.
Unfortunatly, I can't contribute to this thread from here. Roger
and Pizza Chains. I just can't do it, 'darn it.
-sw
LTsering
The ONLY good thing about having a gripe against a bad chain restaurant is that
you can raise hell with their corporate stooges, who usually want to keep some
manageable levels of customer "satisfaction."
Oh, one more thing. A gourmet is a discriminating judge of fine food and drink;
a GOURMAND is a big fat pig.
For the record.
Lisa Tsering
>This isn't about the tragedy of eating Round Table Pizza (for the pizza
>gourmands that review this group); it's about a total breakdown in customer
>service and which fast-food establishment to avoid.
>
>We ordered pizza from the Round Table Pizza restaurant on Prospect Road in
>West San Jose last night. I ordered two medium pizzas for pick-up. The
Geoff Miller
Steve Wertz <swe...@lunasco.sco.com> writes:
> Ah, Roger graces us with his soothing tones, again.
Hell, I think he's absolutely right. It's one thing to
cut restaurant employees some slack because they're only
human, but in this case the customer was far too accomo-
dating. Had it been me, I'd have raised some serious hell.
Failing to do so in situations like that one only serves
to reinforce the declining service ethic that I'm sure many
of us have noticed.
I seldom go to Round Table anymore, partly because I detest
their newfangled blonde-wood-and-Tiffany-lamp decor, but
mainly because there are far better pizzas to be had. Any
pizza connoisseur worth his pepperoni has to wonder about a
chain that offers pizza with *chicken* on it (gack!), that
comes up with things like Mexican-themed "taco" pizzas, and
that doesn't even have bars in its restaurants. As far as I'm
concerned, Round Table has a credibility gap big enough to
drive a truck through. It's no more a legitimate pizza parlor
than Mr. Chow's is a legitimate Chinese restaurant.
The last time I tried to patronize a Round Table pizza parlor
was two or three years ago. I was tired and didn't feel like
cooking, and the Round Table in the Cherry Chase Shopping Center
on Bernardo in Sunyvale was close to where I was living at the
time. It was minutes away, so in a moment of weakness, I figured
I'd chance it.
Moments after I walked up to the counter and began placing my
order, the telephone rang. The employee who's been taking my
order immediately turned around to answer the phone. But instead
of asking the caller to hold and returning to finish what he'd
begun with me, he began taking *their* order, answering questions,
etc. I'm sorry, but I'm one of those old-fashioned types who
believes that someone you're talking to face to face should take
precedence over anyone calling on the telephone. After standing
at the counter for about a minute doing a slow burn, I turned
around and walked out. The idiot behind the counter never even
saw me leave.
Speaking of pizza joints in the northern Sunnyvale area, I noticed
that Peewee's was torn down several months ago. I never did try
that place, even though I'd been driving past it for years. It
looked like an interesting joint, a neighborhood institution with
a lot of regular customers. How was their pizza?
Also, has anybody tried Pizza Point and Pubs, in that sort of threadbare
shopping center at Mary and Washington? I've been in there several
times for beer, but have never tried their pizza. The place is what
I consider a proper pizza parlor to be, dark and cavelike, with benches
instead of chairs and beer signs over the bar.
Geoff
--
"There's something about putting a bicycle between your legs
that turns people into assholes." -- Larry Colen
Geoff Miller
ab...@sonoma.edu (Dan Abel) writes:
> However, from my online dictionary:
[...]
In the context of pizza, "sausage" customarily refers
to Italian-style sausage _sans_ casings that's crumbled
onto the pie like raw hamburger.
Besides, I doubt that anyone with the sort of mentality
possessed by this employee would be bright enough to be
thrown off-track by an ambiguity.
ObPizza: There's a tiny little take-out place on Homestead
at Blaney Avenue in Cupertino that makes excellent pizza.
I wish I remembered its name, but anyone who's familiar with
that neighborhood would be able to find it. I stumbled onto
it when a friend of mine noticed a coupon for the place in
his Entertainment book.
dke...@best.com
Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>
>Moments after I walked up to the counter and began placing my
>order, the telephone rang. The employee who's been taking my
>order immediately turned around to answer the phone. But instead
>of asking the caller to hold and returning to finish what he'd
>begun with me, he began taking *their* order, answering questions,
>etc. I'm sorry, but I'm one of those old-fashioned types who
>believes that someone you're talking to face to face should take
>precedence over anyone calling on the telephone.
This is incredibly common, but yeah, it's awful customer
service. Really irritates the hell out of me.
--
Dave Eisen Sequoia Peripherals: (408) 752-1400
dke...@netcom.com FAX: (408) 752-2707
In our society, you can state your views, but they have to be correct.
--- Ernie Hai, coordinator Singapore Gov't Internet Project.
dke...@best.com
Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>
>In the context of pizza, "sausage" customarily refers
>to Italian-style sausage _sans_ casings that's crumbled
>onto the pie like raw hamburger.
Maybe that's true in this part of the world, but certainly
where I come from (east coast) a lot of places make sausage
pizza with sausage with casing that is sliced. It is a
different sausage from pepperoni, but looks similar except
for color.
The Ranger
> Is this the Round Table at Prospect & Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd? (Facing
> Saratoga-Sunnyvale?)
Saturday during my high school and college years. <g>
**This** particular Round Table is across from FJL2 at Westgate West, behind
the See's Candies store, near Saratoga Avenue. It is **NOT** on
Sunnyvale-Saratoga Road.
The Ranger
> > To calm my wife, the manager offered her a "courtesy drink"
> > (a soft drink) while she waited for the pizzas to be cooked
> > (they were "unusually busy.") She declined and left.
> Why didn't she wait for the pizza?
not very busy just a lot of motion.
> It seems that with you on the phone, and she at the pizza place,
> it was confusing for everyone. I think she should've cooled her
> heels, had the soda, and returned home with the pizza that you
> were ordering.
"Confusing?" For who?
They argued with her, expected her wait a minimum of 25 more minutes, and
called me to confirm the order when her name was used to place the order???
I'm a little confused by this logic...
Aahz Maruch
>In article <7m82jm$c...@limerock.racer.net>,
>Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>>
>>In the context of pizza, "sausage" customarily refers to Italian-style
>>sausage _sans_ casings that's crumbled onto the pie like raw
>>hamburger.
>
>Maybe that's true in this part of the world, but certainly where I come
>from (east coast) a lot of places make sausage pizza with sausage with
>casing that is sliced. It is a different sausage from pepperoni, but
>looks similar except for color.
Around here, that's "linguica". ;-)
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het <*> http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 (if you want to know, do some research)
Dennis Suchta
sausage. It is place on the pizza in rather large chunks without a casing. The
aberrations that one will encounter include sliced italian sausage with a
casing and crumbled italian sausage that resembles the dung of a small animal.
"sausage" never means pepperoni. If sausage did mean pepperoni what would
eliminate salami?
Dennis
dke...@best.com wrote:
> In article <7m82jm$c...@limerock.racer.net>,
> Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
> >
> >In the context of pizza, "sausage" customarily refers
> >to Italian-style sausage _sans_ casings that's crumbled
> >onto the pie like raw hamburger.
>
> Maybe that's true in this part of the world, but certainly
> where I come from (east coast) a lot of places make sausage
> pizza with sausage with casing that is sliced. It is a
> different sausage from pepperoni, but looks similar except
> for color.
>
George Grapman
managers move on pretty quickly. To get results you need to contact the
owner of that franchise as well as the parent company.
Last month I attempted to get a quick snack at the Wendys in the
Portland,OR Airport. There was one person on line in front of me and 5
employees behind the counter none of who even acknowledged us for at
least five minutes. An employee finally came to the counter called out
the number of a previous order and then turned to co-worker to announce
that he was going on a break. The co-worker responded by saying"Me too"
and also left. The three remaining people continued to ignore us.
I left also and later sent a quick note (about as long as the above
paragraph) to Wendys headquarters. A few days later the franchiser
called me with profuse apologies while the home office sent me about $15
worth of coupons.
--
To reply via e-mail please delete "NOSPAM" from address.
George Grapman
not much, discerning taste.
LTsering wrote:
>
> Oh, one more thing. A gourmet is a discriminating judge of fine food and drink;
> a GOURMAND is a big fat pig.
>
>
--
Michael Wise
> The only location for pizza is Chicago. In that context "sausage" means
italian
> sausage. It is place on the pizza in rather large chunks without a casing. The
> aberrations that one will encounter include sliced italian sausage with a
> casing and crumbled italian sausage that resembles the dung of a small animal.
> "sausage" never means pepperoni. If sausage did mean pepperoni what would
> eliminate salami?
I do like the pizza in Chicago (I like it in CA too), however the sausage
pizzas I have had in Chicago....
1) Gino' East (and the other Gino's before they closed it down)
2) Lou Malnatti's
4) Pizzeria Uno
4) Pizzeria Due
...do not have their sausage sliced with a casing or crumbled, but rather,
as a large disk shape covering the whole pizza.
--Mike
Michael Sierchio
> > Why didn't she wait for the pizza?
> Because the pizza's hadn't even been placed in the oven. The restaurant was
> not very busy just a lot of motion.
Why even bother responding to such a stoopid question? The fact is that
your wife is a civilized person, who declined to crap on the floor before
walking out, which is something that some of us think is appropriate to
do in such a toilet of a place.
Thanks for the heads up -- and take some satisfaction that you've convinced
me, at least, to avoid these morons.
Roberta L. Millstein
pizza. For a tasty, inexpensive, thin crust pizza in the Cupertino
area, try Cicero's on Steven's Creek. (Don't be put off by the
minimalist atmosphere -- it's the real McCoy).
--
Roberta L. Millstein
rlmil...@spamaway.rlm.net
Remove "spamaway" to reply
Dennis Suchta
do not cover the pizza in one piece (they do have a lot of sausage which I do
like). Uno's/Due's (not the chain Uno's which is different) have the smaller pieces
(but not the small animal type). What is usually not mentioned in regards to
Chicago pizza is the thin crust type. Home Run Inn, Falcos. Nick & Vitos, Chesdans
all are better than anything in CA.
Dennis
Michael Wise
> The sausage chunks tend to be larger and flatter at Gino's East and
Lou's but they
> do not cover the pizza in one piece (they do have a lot of sausage which I do
> like). Uno's/Due's (not the chain Uno's which is different) have the
smaller pieces
> (but not the small animal type). What is usually not mentioned in regards to
> Chicago pizza is the thin crust type. Home Run Inn, Falcos. Nick &
Vitos, Chesdans
> all are better than anything in CA.
Again, "better" is a subjective term. Sure, the pizza here isn't the same
as it is in Chi, but who really gives a crap....the pizza tastes just fine
to the people born and raised here. If I want a Chicago pizza, I can
always order one on-line from Lou Malnatti and have it over-nighted to
me....and I don't have to deal with freezing Winters and broiling Summers
to get it.
Have you tried all the hundreds of thousands of pizza places in CA?
--Mike
Jon Green
>Needless to say, I've given up on this one, which sucks since I do like
>RT pizza. I've just never seen such an incompetent staff at a
>restaurant. Now if I'm hungry for RT, I pick up at another location
>several miles away.
>Did something change at Round Table in the last year so they don't care
>about service at all?
Maybe they're hiring employees from Fry's Electronics? :)
-Jon
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* Jon Green * "Life's a dance *
* jcg...@netINS.net * you learn as you go" *
* Finger for Geek Code/PGP * *
* #include "std_disclaimer.h" * http://users.quadrunner.com/jon *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
dke...@best.com
bizbee <tub...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>Damn, thank you for this simple, insightful statement. I'm so damn
>tired of listening to some idiot saying that "this" is the only place
>for "that", and that "I have to move back to blah because they just
>don't make duck bicuits like they did at <home>, blah blah"
And I'm so damned tired of hearing Californians get defensive
about their food here and going nuts when someone points out
the obvious fact that some things are made better elsewhere than
they are here.
Meg Worley
>>I'm so damn
>>tired of listening to some idiot saying that "this" is the only place
>>for "that", and that "I have to move back to blah because they just
>>don't make duck bicuits like they did at <home>, blah blah"
Dave writes:
>And I'm so damned tired of hearing Californians get defensive
>about their food here and going nuts when someone points out
>the obvious fact that some things are made better elsewhere than
>they are here.
And I'm so damn tired of revisiting this thread every
six months.
Just kidding, lads -- y'all are cute when you get your
bowels in an uproar over the floating authenticity
debate. It wouldn't be ba.food without it -- and I'd
be stuck reading the Abominable Himmel for local food
info.
ObRestaurantFood: St. Mike's (in Shallow Alto) has
reopened after their July 4th vacation. We had a great
meal there... an excellent salade nicoise plus a
*kickass* port for afters.
Rage away,
meg
--
m...@steam.stanford.edu Comparatively Literate
Todd Michel McComb
Meg Worley <m...@steam.stanford.edu> wrote:
>St. Mike's (in Shallow Alto) has reopened after their July 4th
>vacation.
Speaking of reopenings, last I heard, St. James Infirmary was
intending to reopen, but that's been quite a while. Is there
revised news?
I'll also go for the view that some kinds of food are more thoroughly
cultivated in some places than others... seems rather uncontroversial
to me, but then this is Usenet.
Steve Fenwick
Michel McComb) wrote:
>Speaking of reopenings, last I heard, St. James Infirmary was
>intending to reopen, but that's been quite a while. Is there
>revised news?
The St. James site looks worse as time goes on. I wouldn't hold your breath.
Steve
--
Steve Fenwick usene...@w0x0f.com
Aahz Maruch
>
>And I'm so damned tired of hearing Californians get defensive about
>their food here and going nuts when someone points out the obvious fact
>that some things are made better elsewhere than they are here.
Thing is, there are points on both sides. For example, I'll agree that
you can't get New York or Chicago pizza as good here as elsewhere, but I
won't agree that you can find a pizza somewhere else that is
categorically better than the best California pizza. I just happen to
prefer some kinds of pizza better, and some of those kinds *are* made
better here.
One point I *will* agree with is that you just can't get corned beef
here as good as New York City.
Todd Michel McComb
Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
>I just happen to prefer some kinds of pizza better, and some of
>those kinds *are* made better here.
I can't assess the truth of that statement (either part, I guess),
but I do enjoy Tony & Alba's pizza quite a bit here. I'm not really
a fan of deep dish, so the competition would be New York for me.
Michael Wise
> >Damn, thank you for this simple, insightful statement. I'm so damn
> >tired of listening to some idiot saying that "this" is the only place
> >for "that", and that "I have to move back to blah because they just
> >don't make duck bicuits like they did at <home>, blah blah"
>
>
> And I'm so damned tired of hearing Californians get defensive
> about their food here and going nuts when someone points out
> the obvious fact that some things are made better elsewhere than
> they are here.
I guess that leaves you with two options then:
1) Learn how to use a kill file or ignore a message
or
2) Call Cheap Tickets at 800-377-1000 and buy a one-way ticket back to
wherever it is you transplanted here from
--Mike
Geoff Miller
mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
> I can't assess the truth of that statement (either part, I
> guess), but I do enjoy Tony & Alba's pizza quite a bit here.
I grew up in Mountain View and so came to consider the Mountain
View Tony & Alba's to be the canonical one. So I was pleased to
discover a T&A's in Scotts Valley some months ago.
In a nutshell, it sucked bigtime. For one thing, it's overpriced;
I paid almost $20 for a small pizza and a pint of beer. When I
started to balk at the price, the girl behind the counter handed
me some BS about how the pizza I'd selected cost so much "because
it has all this expensive meat on it." But this wasn't something
akin to FJL2's Stromboli we're talking about, mind. When I got the
thing, I took it back to the counter and demanded to know where all
this "expensive meat" was. The counterdroid hemmed and hawed and
tried to tell me that it was hiding beaneath the cheese. Yeah,
right...
And for another thing, stinginess with the toppings aside, the pizza
is nothing like what you can get at the Mountain View store. It's
completely undistinguished, even mediocre. The crust was bland, the
sauce tasted like something out of a can (Chef Boy-Ar-Dee, at that),
and they didn't even have that yummy pizza bread that the Mountain
View store brings out as an appetizer. Even the atmosphere was
painful, with lots of noisy little kids even by pizza parlor standards.
The strange thing about their price structure, aside from the lack
of corporate uniformity, is that things are generally less expensive
on this side of the hill.
In my wanderings today I noted another Tony & Alba's on 41st Avenue
in Capitola, and as a bonus, a Mama Mia's in Felton (I've been to
their Campbell store a couple of times and liked it). Reports forth-
coming.
dke...@best.com
or
3) Post my usual snotty ineffective message whenever
this comes up.
Todd Michel McComb
Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>I grew up in Mountain View and so came to consider the Mountain
>View Tony & Alba's to be the canonical one. So I was pleased to
>discover a T&A's in Scotts Valley some months ago.
The only thing I know about the ones outside of Mountain View is
that their addresses appear on the box. The Mountain View store
is not merely(?) canonical, but original.
Jon Green
>.... and Jesus F. Christ what is <with> that anyway? I see more goddamn
>lines in places get jammed up because the person taking the orders
[snip]
You can thank a healthy economy and low unemployment for all of it. With
the labor shortage in the Bay Area, anyone halfway intelligent has a good
job. That leaves the real idiots to work in fast food and other minimum
wage jobs. I grew up in Iowa and worked in fast food for three years as
a teenager. With a minimum amount of training, all of us were able to
do the job and provide pretty decent service to our customers. That's
generally still true today back there. That's not the case in the Bay
Area.. from what I've seen, "unskilled labor" means "zero skill" out here.
I've just decided to lower my expectations, because complaining about it
never does any good.
Don't get me started on California teenagers. Apparently with the
ridiculous cost of living around here, both parents had to work, and their
kids were raised by daycare. It shows.
Roger B.A. Klorese
>Ah, Roger graces us with his soothing tones, again.
Do I know you?
Roger B.A. Klorese
>Around here, that's "linguica". ;-)
Linguica is a specific type of Portuguese sausage.
Steve Wertz
: On 10 Jul 1999 09:21:21 GMT, Steve Wertz <swe...@lunasco.sco.com>
: Do I know you?
I was formerly the sysadmin for Computer Literacy, which is the last time
I recall seeing your name, until now.
-sw
Steve Wertz
: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
:> I can't assess the truth of that statement (either part, I
:> guess), but I do enjoy Tony & Alba's pizza quite a bit here.
: In a nutshell, it sucked bigtime. For one thing, it's overpriced;
: I paid almost $20 for a small pizza and a pint of beer. When I
..
: And for another thing, stinginess with the toppings aside, the pizza
: is nothing like what you can get at the Mountain View store. It's
: completely undistinguished, even mediocre. The crust was bland, the
: sauce tasted like something out of a can (Chef Boy-Ar-Dee, at that),
...
: In my wanderings today I noted another Tony & Alba's on 41st Avenue
: in Capitola, and as a bonus, a Mama Mia's in Felton (I've been to
: their Campbell store a couple of times and liked it). Reports forth-
: coming.
There's another one on Soquel on top above Ocean street in front of the Lucky
(singular). I used to eat in Mountain View, and I'm not too impressed with
the Santa Cruz version. And now that the coupons are diminishing,
I go elsewhere for cheaper pizza that is as good or better then T&A's.
I've never tried the one on 41st. It's also right next to a Lucky.
Lemme guess, the one in Scott's Valley is also next to a Lucky's...
-sw
Dennis Suchta
that is a really poor argument. Some people like Mogen David wine too. Your
"on-line ordering" of Lou's is representative of the problem. It is not the same. A
frozen Lou Malnattis in CA would be the best pizza in CA but it is a frozen pizza.
There are acceptable places. I would use Tomassos as a pizza methadone (sp).
Zachary's is a lot like a Chicago pizza place I visited (name escapes me right now)
but was not a favorite of mine. I have tried a lot of places around the bay area
but after a while it becomes really depressing having your hopes dashed.
Dennis
Dennis Suchta
Dennis
Meg Worley wrote:
> biz writes:
> >>I'm so damn
> >>tired of listening to some idiot saying that "this" is the only place
> >>for "that", and that "I have to move back to blah because they just
> >>don't make duck bicuits like they did at <home>, blah blah"
>
> Dave writes:
> >And I'm so damned tired of hearing Californians get defensive
> >about their food here and going nuts when someone points out
> >the obvious fact that some things are made better elsewhere than
> >they are here.
>
Dennis Suchta
"tremendous pizza". As to the ingredients list: after wine is only grapes, how
different can it be in CA from Michigan?
There are many things in CA better than the rest of the country. Why do you
find it so hard to understand the lapses? I'd take being closer to Napa/Sonoma
over good pizza any day. That does not mean that I want a good pizza. Like you
pointed out, the ingredients are here including the sausage. Why is it so
impossible to put them together?
Dennis
bizbee wrote:
> Yn erthygl
> <nospam-1107...@adsl-63-193-99-82.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net>,
> sgrifenws nos...@nospam.net (Michael Wise):
>
> >Again, "better" is a subjective term. Sure, the pizza here isn't the same
> >as it is in Chi, but who really gives a crap....the pizza tastes just fine
> >to the people born and raised here. If I want a Chicago pizza, I can
> >always order one on-line from Lou Malnatti and have it over-nighted to
> >me....and I don't have to deal with freezing Winters and broiling Summers
> >to get it.
> >
> >
> >Have you tried all the hundreds of thousands of pizza places in CA?
> >
> >--Mike
>
> Damn, thank you for this simple, insightful statement. I'm so damn
> tired of listening to some idiot saying that "this" is the only place
> for "that", and that "I have to move back to blah because they just
> don't make duck bicuits like they did at <home>, blah blah".... (this
> is usually followed by whining about traffic, and how rude people are
> here, and the lack of real chicken soup and bagels). I also find it
> interesting that I've <yet> to ever hear someone from say, CA or AZ or
> OR that transplanted to NY or Chicago, then moved back to the coast
> say "God damn this food sucks... I'm moving back to blah because it's
> the only place you can get a good pizza."
> Sorry, bread is bread, cheese is cheese, tomatoes are tomatoes, and
> various ingredients are various ingredients. The only regional
> problems you may run into are in the creation of a sourdough crust, if
> that's the crust you're using. Fleischmann's doesn't say "hey, let's
> send this "special" yeast to Chicago, and send the <shit> to Salt Lake
> City. In the Bay Area I've tasted tremendous pizzas, and I've tasted
> pizzas that make Little Caesar's look like they have a gourmet food.
> Just like someone was shitting on RT for putting chicken on a pizza.
> Say what? Are they working under the misconception that the people at
> RT actually <thought this up>? I like whatever I like on a pizza. I've
> had refried beans and chicken. I've had Caesar salad on top of cheese
> pizza. Get a grip, pizza lovers, <your> pizza isn't the only one on
> the face of God's Green Earth, and <you> aren't the last word in what
> other people should consider good, and, well, to be brutally honest,
> they don't really <give a shit> what you like or where you're from.
> People who insist only on cheese, tomato, and some kind of pig meat on
> their pizza, and calling anyone who deviates from <their> way an
> ignorant non-pizza lover are leading a sheltered, albeit arrogant
> life, and I sure do wish they would <go back> instead of threatening
> to all the time.
Hipsters
<< Its not a question of authenticity it is a question of taste. >>
I wonder if questioning food authenticity is in bad taste?
Karen
Will Borgeson
: ...do not have their sausage sliced with a casing or crumbled, but rather,
: as a large disk shape covering the whole pizza.
That's pretty scary!
Will
Margarita Lacabe
: I noticed that in the entire post not once is a single place mentioned that has
: "tremendous pizza". As to the ingredients list: after wine is only grapes, how
: different can it be in CA from Michigan?
Zachary's Pizza in Berkeley/Oakland has "tremendous pizza" - it consistently
wins "best pizza" awards, yet, some people do not like it (like my brother,
who on the other hand thinks that those paper-thin pizzas made in Italy are
the greatest thing in the world, and I find very akin to cardboard). People
can only tell you what /they/ like, which of course, may differ from what you
like.
The same, of course, can be said for wine. More
non-Californians probably like California wine than Michigan wine, but
if you like Michigan wine, more power to you (I bet it's cheaper!).
: There are many things in CA better than the rest of the country. Why do you
: find it so hard to understand the lapses? I'd take being closer to Napa/Sonoma
: over good pizza any day. That does not mean that I want a good pizza. Like you
: pointed out, the ingredients are here including the sausage. Why is it so
: impossible to put them together?
It's not impossible to put them together, what's more likely is that it's impossible
to put them together to /your liking/.
And actually, I think it would be impossible for *any* pizza parlor to
be able to provide a pizza which is as good as those you remember, because
they would not have the emotional associations than those from back home.
When we miss a place (which may not be a geographical place itself, but
rather a stage of our life which we associate with a place), we often manifest
it in a longing for the food there. I certainly long for the "lemonade" I had
in Egypt as a year-abroad student, and the anything-with-dulce-de-leche from
my childhood, and of course, nothing made here can approximate it.
It's also true, though I'm not sure particularly why, we have a great need
to show that the place where we come from is in some way "better" than
that where we are - and food being so important, we often manifest it
with respect to food. I do it all the time. "The meat in Argentina is
the best in the world" - well, that's certainly true, eh? ;-) But also,
"the pizza in Argentina is the best" (I was /soooo/ happy and *proud* to
read an article once in a airline magazine about how good the pizza in
Argentina was, and yet I certainly have never worked in a pizza parlor :-).
Argentinian wines are the greatest - people would recognize it if they
were only exported more. And so on. And in some cases I may be right,
in some not, but in any case, the need to believe that some stuff in
Argentina is better is nonetheless present. And I think this happens
with all of us.
Take care,
marga
Margarita Lacabe - Derechos - ma...@derechos.org - http://www.derechos.org
____________________________________________________________________________
"In the end life and liberty can be as much endangered from illegal methods
used to convict those thought to be criminals as from the actual criminals
themselves" 360 US 315,320
Karen O'Mara
> And actually, I think it would be impossible for *any* pizza parlor to
> be able to provide a pizza which is as good as those you remember, because
> they would not have the emotional associations than those from back home.
> When we miss a place (which may not be a geographical place itself, but
> rather a stage of our life which we associate with a place), we often manifest
> it in a longing for the food there.
The definitive answer to "authentic"... thank you, Margarita.
Karen
Peter L
>
> The St. James site looks worse as time goes on. I wouldn't hold your breath.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> Steve Fenwick usene...@w0x0f.com
I certainly would like to see how you can hold his breath.
Ian Mac Lure
: In article <7mb724$jd$1...@machaut.medieval.org>, mcc...@medieval.org (Todd
: Michel McComb) wrote:
:>Speaking of reopenings, last I heard, St. James Infirmary was
:>intending to reopen, but that's been quite a while. Is there
:>revised news?
: The St. James site looks worse as time goes on. I wouldn't hold your breath.
It was announced some time ago that it will not be rebuilt or
re-opened. That is definitive.
--
*******************************************************************
***** Ian B MacLure ***** Sunnyvale, CA ***** Engineer/Archer *****
* No Times Like The Maritimes *************************************
*******************************************************************
* Opinions Expressed Here Are Mine. That's Mine , Mine, MINE ******
*******************************************************************
Todd Michel McComb
>It was announced some time ago that it will not be rebuilt or
>re-opened. That is definitive.
Too bad. Where else around here can I find such good chicken wings
and beer selection? Smitty's, which also had quite a few beers
and some of my favorite low-rent burgers, also closed, just because
the exercise studio there on Middlefield decided to get bigger.
Allan Schaffer
>
> I noticed that in the entire post not once is a single place
> mentioned that has "tremendous pizza". As to the ingredients list:
You must have missed my ravings about Jake's on Saratoga-Sunnyvale in
Saratoga. Their large pepperoni & mushroom with extra sauce is
*excellent*, tremendous pizza.
It's neither New York nor Chicago style -- I guess it's Jake's
style. This is what the pizza debate is all about. It seems to me
that many people (especially east-coasters) only see two choices for
good pizza: either Chicago or NY style. Many people like one style
but not the other.
I see three good styles -- Chicago, NY, and Jake's. I like them all
(cuz they're pizza!) but I like Jake's style best, then Chicago, then
NY. I've had more than enough of each style to come to this
conclusion. I would certainly agree that your childhood-memory
Chicago or NY style pizza doesn't exist here in the bay area, but the
Jake's style is available right there on Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd. As
it's _my_ favorite style, this makes me happy.
So all the Chicago-style pizza in CA sucks, in your opinion. And to
continue that line of reasoning, if the only pizza you could ever
like is Chicago-style, then all pizza in CA sucks. Fine. Since I
think Jake's-style is better than Chicago-style, I'd disagree. If I
were living in Chicago I think I'd miss the Jake's style pizza. The
Chicago-style would have to do as a substitute. Ditto in reverse for
you. End of story.
> after wine is only grapes, how different can it be in CA from
> Michigan?
I presume you were offering this as rhetorical counterexample to the
idea of "same ingredients, same pizza." I don't think it holds up to
scrutiny -- clearly, much of the flavor of wine grapes comes from the
composition of the soil. Of course climate is also a factor, as are
the materials used during the aging process. All else equal -- the
same grapes using the same growing techniques and same barrels for
aging -- would taste different if grown in CA soil then MI soil.
Likewise for Napa soil vs Livermore soil.
I think given the same ingredients one could make the same pizza here
as anywhere else. IMHO, most pizza preferences come down to what you
liked as a kid, and that's determined by where you grew up.
Allan
--
Allan Schaffer al...@sgi.com
Silicon Graphics http://reality.sgi.com/allan
Karen O'Mara
> Too bad. Where else around here can I find such good chicken wings
> and beer selection? Smitty's, which also had quite a few beers
> and some of my favorite low-rent burgers, also closed, just because
> the exercise studio there on Middlefield decided to get bigger.
I don't know about their beer selection so much, but the Boardwalk makes pretty
decent wings in a pinch. Ask for them well-done, though.
Karen
Meg Worley
Peter L:
>I certainly would like to see how you can hold his breath.
Hm... like the opposite of shotgunning?
Rage away,
meg
(well, we were speaking of nostalgia, weren't we?)
--
m...@steam.stanford.edu Comparatively Literate
Nap98
>Don't get me started on California teenagers. Apparently with the
>ridiculous cost of living around here, both parents had to work, and their
>kids were raised by daycare. It shows.
What a wonderful generalization of local teenagers. The wages are so low at
cheapy fast food places that it isn't worth working there. If you want to see
hard working teens at a fast food joint, go to In-n-Out burger. Decent pay
there makes for some decent employees.
Your right about one thing, it does cost a lot to live here in the Bay Area. So
most teenagers aren't going for jobs that pay little and require asking "do you
want fries with that." Most teens are smarter then that, and want better jobs.
And another thing......Just because both parents have to work, doesn't mean
their children are brought up by daycares, most parents find a way to work job
and family time out, mine did and still do.
-Nick
Visit A Guide to Mountain View
http://members.aol.com/Nap98/MtnViewGuide1.htm
Nap98
<<It was announced some time ago that it will not be rebuilt or re-opened. That
is definitive.>>
When did you get this info? Because a couple months back an owner of a store in
downtown Mountain View said the owners of Saint James were looking to open up
shop in Downtown.
Geoff Miller
mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) writes:
> Where else around here can I find such good chicken wings
> and beer selection?
Go to the Pacific Steamer in Los Altos for chicken wings, and
to the City Pub in Redwood City for the beer. Alas, I don't
know of any confluence of great chicken wings and an exceptional
beer selection...
Geoff Miller
tub...@ix.netcom.com (bizbee) rants:
> Just like someone was shitting on RT for putting chicken
> on a pizza.
That was me, and if you say I was "shitting" on them, you're
overstating your case. I believe that Round Table has drifted
about as far from the concept of a traditional pizza parlor as
it's possible to drift, both in terms of their product and their
ambience and decor. The fact that they prostitute themselves
by catering to the sort of people who'd even *want* pizza with
chicken on it only detracts further from their credibility, as
far as I'm concerned. What next, chocolate pizza for the kiddies?
Oh, I forgot: the Minivan Culture doesn't permit little Justin
and Jasmyghne to eat sweets...
The reason they *started* offering chicken pizza was because of
the health kick that so many people are on these days. But why
worry about the toppings on-a your pizza-pie when the sumbitch
already has cheese on it? That's as silly as ordering a pizza
and then insisting on drinking diet soda -- which I saw more
than once, incidentally, back when I tended bar at a pizza parlor.
> Say what? Are they working under the misconception that
> the people at RT actually <thought this up>?
Well, seeing as how I've (mercifully) never seen chicken pizza
offered anywhere else, I suppose that'd have to be a categorical
yes.
> I like whatever I like on a pizza.
And you have avery right to do so. Your right to like whatever
you like isn't at issue. You can eat dog crap on your pizza for
all I care. (Maybe the yuppie places like Basil and Applewood
would offer the exotic, sun-bleached white kind at an appropriate
premium, if you convinced them thet there were sufficent demand for
it. "It's, like, really organic, man!")
But don't cry foul when you admit to bizarre tastes and get told
that you're weird. Chicken doesn't belong on pizza any more than
sugar belongs on steak or Bondo body filler belongs on Stoned Wheat
Thins, and most people have enough sense to grasp this instinctively.
If you suggest otherwise, you'll be looked up and down with a scowl
and a jaundiced eye. The right to be heard doesn't automatically
include the right to be taken seriously.
Seriously (heh), if you deviate from a certain loose but nevertheless
traditional and circumscribed selection of ingredients, you start
getting away from the very concept of what pizza is. It becomes
something else, perhaps equally good but no longer pizza. I'm sure
you'd agree that Marie Callenders' identity product differs from
pizza, althugh both are generally considered pies. I submit that
one wouldn't need to go nearly to that extreme in order to leave
the essence of pizzatude behind.
> I've had refried beans and chicken.
At round Table, no doubt. Gack! Makes me wanna hurl...
> <your> pizza isn't the only one on the face of God's Green Earth,
> and <you> aren't the last word in what other people should consider
> good, and, well, to be brutally honest, they don't really <give a shit>
> what you like or where you're from.
Well, people, I guess that's it: time to rmgroup. Move along, folks,
there's nothing to see here...
Jesus, bizbee, and to think you've come on so many times as though *I*
were an asshole! S'matter, hemmies acting up again?
Karen O'Mara
> And another thing......Just because both parents have to work, doesn't mean
> their children are brought up by daycares, most parents find a way to work job
> and family time out, mine did and still do.
Sorry to be OT, but I've really got to plug Peninsula Day Care Center of Palo
Alto. Pastor Shaw, who also owns the Country Gourmet restaurants, runs a
top-notch, safe, nurturing daycare center (bonus: the snacks are from the Country
Gourmet!) It's a huge facility, but it's still very personal and detail-oriented.
I wish more daycares could be like this one around the country...
Karen
--
"Time's fun when you're having flies."
-Kermit
Karen O'Mara
> Go to the Pacific Steamer in Los Altos for chicken wings, and
> to the City Pub in Redwood City for the beer. Alas, I don't
> know of any confluence of great chicken wings and an exceptional
> beer selection...
Wouldn't either the wings get kinda cold or the beer get kinda warm with
this combo?
Karen O'Mara
> That was me, and if you say I was "shitting" on them, you're
> overstating your case. I believe that Round Table has drifted
> about as far from the concept of a traditional pizza parlor as
> it's possible to drift, both in terms of their product and their
> ambience and decor. The fact that they prostitute themselves
> by catering to the sort of people who'd even *want* pizza with
> chicken on it only detracts further from their credibility, as
> far as I'm concerned. What next, chocolate pizza for the kiddies?
> Oh, I forgot: the Minivan Culture doesn't permit little Justin
> and Jasmyghne to eat sweets...
I didn't think I'd like the chicken pizza until I tried it, and it's really
quite tasty. I wouldn't order it, but am glad when somebody trades slices
with me.
Aahz Maruch
Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>
>The reason they *started* offering chicken pizza was because of
>the health kick that so many people are on these days. But why
>worry about the toppings on-a your pizza-pie when the sumbitch
>already has cheese on it? That's as silly as ordering a pizza
>and then insisting on drinking diet soda -- which I saw more
>than once, incidentally, back when I tended bar at a pizza parlor.
Well, aside from people who have health problems with sugar or corn
syrup, I pretty much agree with that.
--
--- Aahz (@netcom.com)
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het <*> http://www.rahul.net/aahz/
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 (if you want to know, do some research)
Michael Wise
(Will Borgeson) wrote:
It certainly is, but it tastes pretty good. I wouldn't want to stuff my
body full of those artery cloggers every day though...lest I start
actually looking like the typical Chicago denizen.
--Mike
GaryMRosen
>The fact that they prostitute themselves
>by catering to the sort of people who'd even *want* pizza with
>chicken on it
Jeez! If Geoff's idea of prostitution
is pizza with chicken on it, his love
life must be even more desperate
than we thought...
- Gary Rosen
Andreaborn
>Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>>
>>That's as silly as ordering a pizza
>>and then insisting on drinking diet soda -- which I saw more
>>than once, incidentally, back when I tended bar at a pizza parlor.
Aahz wrote:
>Well, aside from people who have health problems with sugar or corn syrup, I
pretty much agree with that.
I don't understand why this is so hard to grasp: I like to eat yummy foods
like pizza. If I also consume calories via sugared soda, I take in more
calories than if I didn't.
I can't remember the last time I dieted, I don't count calories, and I don't
weigh myself, but I also don't want to take in a sugared soda's worth of
calories if diet soda is perfectly fine with my taste buds.
That's probably what you don't get -- there's absolutely no sacrifice to me in
drinking the diet soda, although I admit there might be for other people. But
I don't see what silly has to do with it.
yum,
Andrea
Michelle Dick
Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>>already has cheese on it? That's as silly as ordering a pizza
>>and then insisting on drinking diet soda -- which I saw more
>>than once, incidentally, back when I tended bar at a pizza parlor.
>
>syrup, I pretty much agree with that.
Or just prefer the taste of diet soda. Regular is too syrupy to me.
I recently ordered a diet coke and chocolate peanut butter pie. I
sure wasn't ordering diet coke because it had fewer calories, I
ordered it because it tastes better than non-diet to me. Is it also
silly to have water with dessert just because water doesn't have any
calories?
I'll drink regular soda, but I find I am rarely able to drink more
than half a can, while I can guzzle diet sodas like water.
I was with my sisters recently on the East Coast and mentioned
something about liking the taste of diet over non-diet soda to one of
them. She said she was the same way and hypothesized that it was
because we were fed lots of Tab growing up. Similar to how we all
prefer unsweetened tea (we grew up in the North, but some of the
family now lives in the South -- all but the youngest of 5 kids who
spent the most time in the south prefer unsweetened to sweetened
tea).
To hell with what other people think, I'll drink what I like. What
would *really* be silly is my ordering non-diet soda that I don't
prefer with dessert just because some busybody thinks it's silly to
order diet soda with calorie-laden foods.
(Though I did give up diet soda for over a year because I wondered if
my 6-10 can a day habit was a problem, didn't seem to make a
difference healthwise (moneywise, yes, water is cheaper) although now
I drink it again but not so much). In that time, I didn't drink much
non-diet soda either (other than vietnamese soda lemonades) -- I tried
drinking regular coke and pepsi, but found I didn't really want them.
I kept throwing out half-empty cans of soda (which got flat in the
fridge) because I couldn't finish them.
--
Michelle Dick art...@rahul.net East Palo Alto, CA
Roger B.A. Klorese
wrote:
>I was formerly the sysadmin for Computer Literacy, which is the last time
>I recall seeing your name, until now.
Ah, the "we spammed corporate email systems before spammin was kewl"
folks.
Roger B.A. Klorese
>Your right about one thing, it does cost a lot to live here in the Bay Area. So
>most teenagers aren't going for jobs that pay little and require asking "do you
>want fries with that." Most teens are smarter then that, and want better jobs.
But, of course, if they weren't given allowances, they wouldn't have
much choice but to take *some* job, would they?
Dennis Suchta
created by Pizza Hut or the unfortunate bastardization of Uno's that is
common around the country. The only "style" of pizza in Chicago is good
pizza. This is not a childhood memory. I regularly visit Chicago. I
regularly eat pizza , of all types, in Chicago. The problem is the long
intervals between trips. I have found a area with worse pizza than CA -
Seattle. They have the one place with a good pizza that is like
Giordano's/Zachary's, Delphino's. Both places must have actually visited
Chicago before opening.
CA wine is good (I can hear the sigh of relief). You could take the grapes
from California to Michigan and they would still make a bad wine (probably
by adding blueberries). If you do not have a clue you do not have a chance.
CA is clue less about pizza.
Dennis
Dennis Suchta
flattered by Zachary's imitation: Giordano's. It was one of the first Stuffed pizzas in
Chicago. Unfortunately they cloned into a local chain with a decrease in quality. Still
better than anything in CA>
Dennis
Dennis Suchta wrote:
> I'm sure that the pizza taste fine to those who have not tried any other pizza. But
> that is a really poor argument. Some people like Mogen David wine too. Your
> "on-line ordering" of Lou's is representative of the problem. It is not the same. A
> frozen Lou Malnattis in CA would be the best pizza in CA but it is a frozen pizza.
> There are acceptable places. I would use Tomassos as a pizza methadone (sp).
> Zachary's is a lot like a Chicago pizza place I visited (name escapes me right now)
> but was not a favorite of mine. I have tried a lot of places around the bay area
> but after a while it becomes really depressing having your hopes dashed.
>
> Dennis
>
> > ...the pizza tastes just fine
> > to the people born and raised here. If I want a Chicago pizza, I can
> > always order one on-line from Lou Malnatti and have it over-nighted to
> > me....and I don't have to deal with freezing Winters and broiling Summers
> > to get it.
> >
> > Have you tried all the hundreds of thousands of pizza places in CA?
> >
> > --Mike
Dennis Suchta
of my favorites but it is the best in the Bay area. I also like thin crust pizza, pan
pizza, and a unique Chicago type called "frying pan pizza". All this is not based on
past memories. I regularly travel to Chicago and visit several pizza places during my
stay. The problem with pizza I have tried in the bay area (excepting Tomasso's and
Zachary's) is not relative to my taste, it is truly terrible.
Dennis
Margarita Lacabe wrote:
> Dennis Suchta <dsu...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>
> : I noticed that in the entire post not once is a single place mentioned that has
> : "tremendous pizza". As to the ingredients list: after wine is only grapes, how
> : different can it be in CA from Michigan?
>
> Zachary's Pizza in Berkeley/Oakland has "tremendous pizza" - it consistently
> wins "best pizza" awards, yet, some people do not like it (like my brother,
> who on the other hand thinks that those paper-thin pizzas made in Italy are
> the greatest thing in the world, and I find very akin to cardboard). People
> can only tell you what /they/ like, which of course, may differ from what you
> like.
>
> The same, of course, can be said for wine. More
> non-Californians probably like California wine than Michigan wine, but
> if you like Michigan wine, more power to you (I bet it's cheaper!).
>
> : There are many things in CA better than the rest of the country. Why do you
> : find it so hard to understand the lapses? I'd take being closer to Napa/Sonoma
> : over good pizza any day. That does not mean that I want a good pizza. Like you
> : pointed out, the ingredients are here including the sausage. Why is it so
> : impossible to put them together?
>
> It's not impossible to put them together, what's more likely is that it's impossible
> to put them together to /your liking/.
>
> And actually, I think it would be impossible for *any* pizza parlor to
> be able to provide a pizza which is as good as those you remember, because
> they would not have the emotional associations than those from back home.
> When we miss a place (which may not be a geographical place itself, but
> rather a stage of our life which we associate with a place), we often manifest
Geoff Miller
andre...@aol.com (Andreaborn) writes:
> I like to eat yummy foods like pizza. If I also consume
> calories via sugared soda, I take in more calories than
> if I didn't.
But when you eat pizza, you're already taking in so many
calories that whatever additional ones you'd get from a
regular soft drink would be negligible. Cutting calories
by drinking diet soda with pizza is being penny wise and
pound foolish, dietarily speaking.
Roger B.A. Klorese
>But when you eat pizza, you're already taking in so many
>calories that whatever additional ones you'd get from a
>regular soft drink would be negligible.
Well if one slice of a full-size pizza is about 1000 calories,
avoiding a large soft drink with it avoids about 15-20% additional
calories.
>Cutting calories
>by drinking diet soda with pizza is being penny wise and
>pound foolish, dietarily speaking.
Where's the "foolish" part? It doesn't get in the way of anything, it
tastes just fine, and it doesn't result in a net *increase* of
calories...
Karen O'Mara
> But when you eat pizza, you're already taking in so many
> calories that whatever additional ones you'd get from a
> regular soft drink would be negligible. Cutting calories
> by drinking diet soda with pizza is being penny wise and
> pound foolish, dietarily speaking.
Dang, how many pieces of pizza do you eat, anyway?
Karen
Todd Michel McComb
bizbee <tub...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>A major part of Bay Area history disappeared in that blaze.
It was shocking. I had been there the day before.
Ciccio
> The reason they *started* offering chicken pizza was because of
> the health kick that so many people are on these days. But why
> worry about the toppings on-a your pizza-pie when the sumbitch
> already has cheese on it? That's as silly as ordering a pizza
> and then insisting on drinking diet soda -- which I saw more
> than once, incidentally, back when I tended bar at a pizza parlor.
Hmmmmm. Sounds like you got suckered in by the advertisers with the word "diet."
With many people, including myself, it has to do with a preference for a less
syrupy taste. Also, many people actually prefer chicken to sausage or whatever.
So what? It seems the only thing silly, is your presuming that everybody should
have the same tastes you do.
Ciccio
John S. Watson
>My meal card from Viet Nam went up in that blaze, no doubt. I put it
>on the wall when I returned to the World in 1972.
>A major part of Bay Area history disappeared in that blaze.
How much of that history was still in there?
I know they had recently remodeled the place ...
so there wasn't anymore big cheap pitches of beer
and no more free peanuts shells on the floor.
That is what I heard anyway here in the group ...
I never got a chance to go check it out before it went
up in a blaze.
So I basically remember the old St. James when I think about it.
Burning it down was definately a major hate crime in my books!
John Watson
NASA Ames Research Center
wat...@george.arc.nasa.gov
http://george.arc.nasa.gov/~watson
HOMEBREW NAKED!
Berry Kercheval
> I've really got to plug Peninsula Day Care Center of Palo
> Alto.
And I'll plug the Mid Peninsula YWCA aftercare. Great program.
Dan Abel
<art...@rahul.net> wrote:
> To hell with what other people think, I'll drink what I like.
No, you *have* to drink what Geoff says, otherwise he'll think you're
weird. You wouldn't want *that* to happen, would you?
--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
ab...@sonoma.edu
Geoff Miller
rog...@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> Well if one slice of a full-size pizza is about 1000
> calories, avoiding a large soft drink with it avoids
> about 15-20% additional calories.
Yeah, but who eats just one slice? I'm sure it happens,
but it's hardly the default. As a former pizza parlor
employee, it's my experience that's pizzas are normally
split between 2-4 people depending on the size of the
pie. That implies 3-4 slices per person, typically.
> Where's the "foolish" part? It doesn't get in the way
> of anything, it tastes just fine, and it doesn't result
> in a net *increase* of calories...
The foolishness is in the attempt to cut calories by avoiding
something (a standard soft drink) that would've contributed
relatively few calories to the overall meal anyway -- while
eating such an inherently fattening meal in the first place.
I'd think that if anyone were that concerned about cutting
calories, they'd avoid pizza altogether.
Of course, if avoiding calories weren't the reason for choosing
a diet soda, that wouldn't apply. But I really doubt very many
people actually _prefer_ the taste of that nasty stuff. (I'm
rather skittish about Tab, especially. Look at what it did to
Bobcat Goldthwaite!)
Geoff Miller
Karen O'Mara <ka...@randomgraphics.com> asks:
> Dang, how many pieces of pizza do you eat, anyway?
When I'm with one other person, we usually split a
medium pizza. That's four slices apiece. I can eat
a small one by myself, as I'd think most people could.
I ate five slices at a sitting one time when I was ten,
but I barfed. It turned out to be the beginnings of
stomach flu, though.
MikeAWise
>> It certainly is, but it tastes pretty good. I wouldn't want to stuff my
>> body full of those artery cloggers every day though...lest I start
>> actually looking like the typical Chicago denizen.
>What slanderous type is a typical Chicagoan?
Let's just say....a little on the "beefy" side and leave it at that.
--Mike
Peter L
population tries to avoid sugar.
Karen O'Mara
> I ate five slices at a sitting one time when I was ten,
> but I barfed. It turned out to be the beginnings of
> stomach flu, though.
Dean Edell says there is no such thing as the stomach flu, and he'd
probably say it was food poisoning.
Karen <who is not a doctor, and doesn't play one on TV>
Tricia
>
> The foolishness is in the attempt to cut calories by avoiding
> something (a standard soft drink) that would've contributed
> relatively few calories to the overall meal anyway -- while
> eating such an inherently fattening meal in the first place.
> I'd think that if anyone were that concerned about cutting
> calories, they'd avoid pizza altogether.
>
> Of course, if avoiding calories weren't the reason for choosing
> a diet soda, that wouldn't apply.
Well, there you have it. Many people are diabetic.
But I really doubt very many
> people actually _prefer_ the taste of that nasty stuff. (I'm
> rather skittish about Tab, especially. Look at what it did to
> Bobcat Goldthwaite!)
I used to love Tab. I miss those saccharin(sp?) drinks. I'm alergic to
NutraSwe*t, so it's full sugar for me now. I miss Bobcat too.
Tricia
Q: "What's the difference between a hamster and a gerbil?"
A:"I'm pretty sure there's more dark meat on a hamster" - Bobcat Goldthwaite
circa 1983
Geoff Miller
na...@aol.com (Nap98) writes:
> Most teens are smarter then that, and want better jobs.
Because of a lack of exprience, most teens aren't *qualified*
for better jobs, which is why they've traditionally had to
settle for jobs at at fast food joints and carwashes and the
like. I don't see that that has changed any over the last
couple of decades. If a lot of teens have begun turning up
their noses at entry-level jobs, all that proves is that their
expectations are unrealistic.
Looking at it from a different perspective, teens living
at home are the natural pool from which places like McDonalds
draw their workforce. It's true that fast food jobs don't pay
enough to live on, but then, who says they should? Especially
if the logical labor pool that they draw on consists of people
who don't yet have to pay their own way in life?
ObFood: From what I've seen, most of the workers at In-N-Out
aren't teenagers, but people in their twenties and older.
PATMAN
a chicken pizza. If you want a traditional pizza, just order a cheese
pizza. Why get your panties in a knot over what different people like on
their pizza. If you don't like it, don't order it. Some people enjoy trying
different foods.
Nap98
>for better jobs, which is why they've traditionally had to
>settle for jobs at at fast food joints and carwashes and the
>like. I don't see that that has changed any over the last
>couple of decades. If a lot of teens have begun turning up
>their noses at entry-level jobs, all that proves is that their
>expectations are unrealistic.
Now, I didn't say they weren't going into entry level jobs. They're just not
going into fast food ones like McDonalds. Most of the teens I know, opt for
jobs at local stores, like Longs, Blockbuster, Gap ect. Many work at
restuarants as hosts or hostesses. I don't know one who works at a McDonalds. I
might be a regional thing, because we have many immigrants who take those jobs.
Where as in other parts of the country, those jobs are filled by teenagers.
Just speculation though...
-Nick
Visit A Guide to Mountain View
http://members.aol.com/Nap98/MtnViewGuide1.htm
Roger B.A. Klorese
>Yeah, but who eats just one slice?
Of full-size serve-by-the-slice pizzeria pizza, rather than
middle-American order-by-the-pie stuff? I do, and most of the people
I know do. Two slices at most, and that's a *big* meal.
Abby Franquemont
>In article <7m8226$c...@limerock.racer.net>,
>Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>>
>>Moments after I walked up to the counter and began placing my
>>order, the telephone rang. The employee who's been taking my
>>order immediately turned around to answer the phone. But instead
>>of asking the caller to hold and returning to finish what he'd
>>begun with me, he began taking *their* order, answering questions,
>>etc. I'm sorry, but I'm one of those old-fashioned types who
>>believes that someone you're talking to face to face should take
>>precedence over anyone calling on the telephone.
>
>This is incredibly common, but yeah, it's awful customer
>service. Really irritates the hell out of me.
Believe it or not, this is often a policy choice. I can't remember what
crap job it was, thankfully one I escaped many years ago, where it was
drummed into me that the customer on the phone had priority over the
customer you could see in person, because the customer holding on the
phone has no idea if you're doing something else and will be with them
as soon as you're done, whereas the customer in person watching you can
see that you're doing something else.
It was either a hellish receptionist gig, or a waitress gig at a pizza
joint, I just can't remember which.
--
Abby Franquemont "I might have amnesia -- but I'm not stupid!"
J. Random BOFH --Jackie Chan
Geoff Miller
Michelle Dick <art...@rahul.net> writes:
> Or just prefer the taste of diet soda. Regular is too syrupy
> to me.
and
> Is it also silly to have water with dessert just because water
> doesn't have any calories?
Of course not, if you drink water with dessert because you *want*
to, rather than to avoid additional calories.
But then, if you drink water with dessert *because* you're avoiding
the calories that you'd get from a less austere beverage, that would
be silly -- because if you were really serious about avoiding calories,
common sense dictates that you wouldn't be eating dessert to begin with.
I really don't see why this concept is so difficult to understand.
I generally don't have any problem with mainstream soft drinks, the
single exception being Sprite. To me, Sprite tastes like carbonated
Karo corn syrup with a touch of lemon and lime flavoring. It's too
cloyingly sweet and syrupy for my tastes; I think it must've been
formulated to appeal to eight-year-olds. So I understand the concept
even if my personal threshold of distaste is a bit higher than yours.
One less-sweet carbonated drink that I really like is tonic water.
I buy several liter bottles of Schweppe's tonic water whenever I
do my grocery shopping, and while I enjoy an occasional vodka & tonic
on weekends, I drink a hell of a lot more tonic water by itself than
I do with booze in it. Sometimes I drink it plain over ice, and other
times I'll add a teaspoon of Rose's Lime Juice.
Another Schweppe's product I like that would probably appeal to the
easily-squicked-by-excessive-sweetness crowd is Bitter Lemon. I
used to see it everywhere, in supermarkets as well as in neighborhood
likker stores, but nowadays the only place I can find it is BevMo.
I think it's a better soft drink than a mixer, though. For whatever
strange reason, it's only sold in six-packs of little green glass
bottles; I've never seen it sold by the liter like tonic water and
soda water are.
By the way, what's the difference between soda and seltzer? I used
to think that "seltzer" was just an East Coast term for soda water,
but several years ago I began seeing both of them offered side by
side. Is seltzer Kosher or something, essentially soda water that's
been circumcised?
Abby Franquemont
Todd Michel McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:
>In article <7mb966$5...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>,
>Aahz Maruch <aa...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>I just happen to prefer some kinds of pizza better, and some of
>>those kinds *are* made better here.
>
>I can't assess the truth of that statement (either part, I guess),
>but I do enjoy Tony & Alba's pizza quite a bit here. I'm not really
>a fan of deep dish, so the competition would be New York for me.
Vito's Pizza, on Reed just off Lawrence, has satisfied my family's New York
pizza cravings. Amazingly, they're, like, actual New Yorkers.
Abby Franquemont
Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Well, seeing as how I've (mercifully) never seen chicken pizza
>offered anywhere else, I suppose that'd have to be a categorical
>yes.
I have, but it was being billed as "California-style pizza."
Frankly, if ya ask me, I'd rather have chicken on a pizza than creamed
corn and octopus. And I haven't had a pizza anywhere in the Bay Area
that was as bad as the pizza in Japan, or the first efforts at pizza
that were made in Cuzco, Peru.
Todd Michel McComb
Geoff Miller <geo...@peeves.com> wrote:
>I generally don't have any problem with mainstream soft drinks
I don't like to drink anything sweet (that I can think of right
now at least), and certainly not soft drinks. The Nutrasweet ones
only seem worse in that regard to me. You can definitely put me
down under the "beer with pizza" heading.
Karen O'Mara
> Vito's Pizza, on Reed just off Lawrence, has satisfied my family's New York
> pizza cravings. Amazingly, they're, like, actual New Yorkers.
I had pizza once at a place on Staten Island. The pizza had lots of clams and
a little white sauce. It was heavenly-divine delicious. Does Vito's make a
clam pie like this perhaps?
Karen
--
"Time's fun when you're having flies."
-Kermit
Lusty Wench
>easily-squicked-by-excessive-sweetness crowd is Bitter Lemon. I
When I flew British Air and requested "lemonade", they gave me some
Schweppe's product that I _loved_. It was lemony, but not overly
sweet. Is there any chance that this was actually Bitter Lemon, or
do they also have a separate thing called "lemonade"?
Lusty
dke...@best.com
Abby Franquemont <ab...@foad.org> wrote:
>
>Believe it or not, this is often a policy choice. I can't remember what
>crap job it was, thankfully one I escaped many years ago, where it was
>drummed into me that the customer on the phone had priority over the
>customer you could see in person, because the customer holding on the
>phone has no idea if you're doing something else and will be with them
>as soon as you're done, whereas the customer in person watching you can
>see that you're doing something else.
Makes sense. Also, the person in line is less likely to
walk out than the person on the phone is to hang up and
go elsewhere. Still irritating as hell.
--
Dave Eisen Sequoia Peripherals: (408) 752-1400
dke...@netcom.com FAX: (408) 752-2707
In our society, you can state your views, but they have to be correct.
--- Ernie Hai, coordinator Singapore Gov't Internet Project.